Thanks for the history lesson, but that doesn't really answer the question. I'm not talking about federal ID, which has been a bugbear for a long time. I meant uniform standards for applicable voter ID (like including student ID and the stuff you should be able to use in Texas but can't), you could even make so if a state chooses to have mandatory ID it has to include X, Y and Z.
Supreme Court allows voter ID law in Texas (CNN)
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Pagusas
Elden Member
This is one issue I do not understand Gaf on at all. A drivers licence is practically required in the state of texas to do anything. Hell I dont know how you could get a job without one as almost every job requires you to show proof of identification when starting. I do not see these situations people talk about "no time to get one because they work 2 jobs" - Yet they have time to vote? They have 2 jobs that, unless those jobs are under the counter, would have required proof to start?
You need either a class A ID to work OR both class B and C IDs.
If you use class B and C combo you can work without a photo ID.
I like you was ignorant of how privileged I was until I worked for the government. A lot of people work without a photo attached to their ID. A lot of people don't go to college or drive or travel overseas which would be the cases where you get a photo ID.
I understand wanting some proper ID for voting. However , if that is the case, then the government should be making the process of getting ID much easier. Why you have to track down your birthplace and get birth certificate? do they take driver license from within the state or out of state? If they are so bent on citizenship ID, then issue a citizenship ID that covers that then. Like passport?
What's that ? I am not from the States...
After you register to vote (which is free) the government sends a card to you at your registered address that has your information on it. Without ID laws like this, presenting this card at your polling place is all you need to vote.
SigmasonicX
Member
Jesus Christ, I feel like for threads like this, any time you try to post a reply, you should be forced to look at select posts from the thread.
As has already been stated so many times, the US does not offer free IDs to everyone, and you do not need an ID for many facets of life, meaning that someone would have to go out of his or her way to get a valid ID. To get a valid ID, you often need other official documents, which may take money and a lot of time to get. And the place where you get IDs can make the process very hard in poor and minority neighborhoods, as shown in my old post that people have thankfully already quoted. And the reason why the ID laws are so complicated and restrictive, seemingly designed to prevent people from voting, is because, yes, they are designed to prevent people from voting!
As has already been stated so many times, the US does not offer free IDs to everyone, and you do not need an ID for many facets of life, meaning that someone would have to go out of his or her way to get a valid ID. To get a valid ID, you often need other official documents, which may take money and a lot of time to get. And the place where you get IDs can make the process very hard in poor and minority neighborhoods, as shown in my old post that people have thankfully already quoted. And the reason why the ID laws are so complicated and restrictive, seemingly designed to prevent people from voting, is because, yes, they are designed to prevent people from voting!
You're wrong though. You don't need a Texas ID to work in Texas.
You can have another state's ID, a Canadian driver's license, school ID, voter registration card, Native American tribal ID, merchant mariner ID, social security card, Veteran's Affairs ID, DHS work authorization card, any federal agency ID, or a birth certificate.
None of those documents are acceptable as voter ID in Texas, even though the they are acceptable for proof of ID and proof of ability to work by the Department of Homeland Security.
DHS doesn't accept a gun license as ID, but Texas accepts it as valid Voter ID.
Some threads like this one would be saner if country of origin was posted under our names. It would tone down the reactions.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Yeah, it'll always be about manipulating power in the United States. Democrates want everyone to vote easily for a reason, while republicans want the opposite for a reason.
It's fucking ridiculous that a developed country doesn't provide its citizens with an ID. It also makes no sense that you have to pay for it. What the hell, murrica?
I think this law is great. I don't get why would any country in the world allow non-citizens to vote.
Sure about that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oegE5GW1DJA
I think this law is great. I don't get why would any country in the world allow non-citizens to vote.
Sure about that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oegE5GW1DJA
SigmasonicX
Member
How exactly is the law great, considering your first sentence?
And non-citizens are already prevented from voting due to the voter registration process.
Dude Abides
Banned
No reason to go to the trouble and expense of doing that. I'm not sure Republicans would even support it as it'd be the first step on the road to Obama's FEMA death camps.
Non-citizens already cannot vote. They cannot register to vote in the first place. This has nothing to do with illegal immigration
The ostensible purpose of these laws is to prevent somebody from voting in another person's name
Gentleman Jack
Member
non-citizens voting is not a problem in this country. It never was. Also read the posts where the texas law rejects types of ID that you must be a citizen to acquire.
Not having ID is a societal opt out, can't imagine these people voting in any meaningful numbers.
You could have tons of ID valid for proof of work authorization in Texas (including other state IDs) but not valid for use as a Texas Voter ID.
SigmasonicX
Member
"These people wouldn't have voted anyway," is not a good excuse for these laws. There are several people who would have voted, but the process of getting an ID is too difficult, so they become less inclined to do so. Election laws should be encouraging as many people as possible to vote, because the US has appalling turnouts for elections, and these laws do the exact opposite of that.
And since people apparently forget about earlier points unless they get brought up every other post,
And since people apparently forget about earlier points unless they get brought up every other post,
Part of the problem is the uneven application of what constitutes a valid ID. Military retired ID card? Not good enough. Student ID card? Not good enough. Must be Texas state issued ID to vote.
I have a military retired ID card. If I lived in Texas, that would not be valid ID to vote. Again, the problem isn't that "any" ID is required, the problem is that only "specific" ID is accepted. Got a social security card and a student ID? Not good enough. Got an Indian reservation ID card issued in Texas? Not good enough.
Do you actually believe Democrats haven't been trying to legislate a national photo ID?
Which do you think is bigger, voter fraud or voter apathy among those without a picture ID?
Democrats have most likely tried to legislate a national photo ID so that everyone is forced to have an ID to exist which eliminates any possibility of Republican laws targeting the prevention of certain classes of people from voting. A national photo ID law would basically require them to give them free to poor people.
These laws are not well-intentioned, and stink of institutionalized racism. The first step is just to require the ID. Then, state legislators adjust the hours and locations of DMVs to make them less common (and open less often) in areas where disproportionate numbers of minorities live. The net result is that it becomes harder for minorities (who are statistically more likely to vote Democratic) to vote in elections.
Sure, it might 'only' be $16 for an ID, but a poll tax is a poll tax, regardless of the cost. Sad that Republicans have to resort to disenfranchising the minority vote just to win in a state that every year is shifting away from them demographically.
Sure, it might 'only' be $16 for an ID, but a poll tax is a poll tax, regardless of the cost. Sad that Republicans have to resort to disenfranchising the minority vote just to win in a state that every year is shifting away from them demographically.
Actually the reasons for the national ID were to deal with immigration but Republicans have been blocking their implementation, probably because they would also give IDs to undocumented immigrants but with computers we could better control what they can and can't access. I don't know for sure why they were blocking it before the voting scam became popular in the past few years.
States' rights! rabble rabble
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
A possible simple solution is just for Texas DMV to close on Thursday and Friday and be open Saturday and Sunday. Maybe open up Sunday afternoon and go into night to accomodate church goers and people with weird schedule. Some dmv services may not function if they need to verify or collude with other m-f agencies but I would imagine a lot could get done in that weekend time frame.
SigmasonicX
Member
Having DMV hours be accommodating to the citizenry near it? But that may actually allow people to get IDs! A better solution would be to just close that DMV altogether.
I read about this yesterday and posted in PoliGAF about my disappointment. I'm glad some people understand the issue loud and clear for the problem of this law and its true intent. It's very unfortunate that the Supreme Court chose to directly impact a current election in this manner.
I have my ID and my voter registration card, and I'll be at the polls very soon. Early voting starts tomorrow.
I have my ID and my voter registration card, and I'll be at the polls very soon. Early voting starts tomorrow.
Some form of ID is required to work in the US.
Voter ID cards are free. Yes, you have to travel to get it, but even in Texas, DPS (aka DMV) offices are specifically open on Saturday for just that purpose (in addition to M-F).
They also have a number of pop-up locations to register for the free Voter ID card:
http://votetexas.gov/election-identification-certificate-mobile-stations
Of course, Texas only requires the Voter ID if you vote in person. If you vote by mail, it is not required.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/media_and_communications/pr091313.htm
Basically, if you don't want to deal with an ID, just register to vote via mail. Which is part of the reason why the whole thing is silly. Everyone has access to USPS and filling out an absentee ballot or vote-by-mail ballot is not an undue burden.
You only need to have an ID in Texas if you want to vote in person.
Someone who is disabled can also be exempted from the ID requirement.
If you voted in Texas, while still a resident of Illinois, you voted illegally.
Using Texas as an example, if you moved to the state and became a resident, your out of state driver's license became invalid after 90 days. If you keep using it and don't get a Texas DL, you're an unlicensed driver.
If you keep your home state ID and don't become a resident, then you're not eligible to vote.
As to the latter paragraph, the Texas requirements for the card, don't require proof of current address. You can either bring a voter registration card (which would list your district) or register to vote right there. Either way, the voter ID card (EIC) is good throughout Texas, even if you move.
It's not really. You just have to swear to be a citizen and provide either a state ID card number or the last four digits of your SS number. It is a federal crime to falsely claim to be a citizen, but registering to vote is as simple as filling out a form and dropping it in the mail.
Proving identify and eligibility to work in the US is more involved.
You need an address of some sort in order to register to vote. So that kind of makes any ID question moot.
Voter IDs are free.
Well there is the Passport Card. That is a national ID, but that also costs $55 ($30 to renew), which can be prohibitive if you don't otherwise need it and are on a budget.
Department of Veteran's Affairs ID card requires military service, but does not require you to be a citizen of the US.
The birth certificate is probably the biggest hurdle for those that don'e have one. Everything else you listed is accepted by Texas as a supporting document in addition to a birth certificate.
Some jurisdictions allow non-citizens (including undocumented) to vote in local elections. There is nothing illegal about that if local law allows it. Federal law only covers national elections.
You don't get time off to get an ID card, but in Texas you do get paid time off to vote.
http://www.thehrspecialist.com/article.aspx?articleid=44308
Locations to get the Texas EIC are open on Saturday.
Texas law says otherwise. As long as the military ID is current (not more than 60 days past expiration) and has a photo, it is valid.
For now. With the REAL ID law in effect, that may be changing in as soon as two years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act
That's the point of REAL ID. To create minimum standards for state driver's licenses so they can be considered a valid identity document.
That's pretty much what the REAL ID requirements cover.
You can use a student ID in Texas, along with a birth certificate, to get a voter ID card.
Texas law says otherwise. As long as the military ID is current (not more than 60 days past expiration) and has a photo, it is valid.
In order to vote by mail, you need to
-be 65 years or older;
-be disabled;
-be out of the county on election day and during the period for early voting by personal appearance; or
-be confined in jail, but otherwise eligible.
http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/reqabbm.shtml
An embarrassing one where we trumpet ourselves as the shining example of democracy, then barely show up in most elections excluding federal, which still has lower than ideal turnout.
I agree that 70% would be great, but we should be able to do better. Needless barriers like Voter ID laws only serve to keep us further from the goal of voter participation in elections.
Gentleman Jack
Member
For four whole hours, that sure addresses the needs of people who can ill afford even a single of hour off work or caring for family members! No sir this isn't about disenfranchising the poor!
No? I was a Texas resident but had an Illinois license. I registered to vote in Texas because I lived there.
Good catch. I missed that one. Still, it means that there is no imposition on the old and/or disabled.
Four hours on multiple Saturdays, where they only do the voter cards at the DPS offices.
Plus the additional non-DPS locations that were listed in the link.
Plus the standard M-F hours.
If you were a Texas resident for 90 days, your Illinois driver's license was no longer valid in Texas.
And 90 days is pretty generous. CA gives you 10 days after becoming a resident.
It's almost like this law isn't trying to prevent the old or the disabled from voting.
I wasn't. Fall semester started in late August IIRC.
Squirrel Killer
Member
When you see this story of the SCOTUS allowing TX voter ID and the earlier story of the court halting WI voter ID, what do you think is happening? Honest question. Do you think the court is just flipping and flopping and doing shit randomly?
From a jurisprudence perspective, both of those decisions were the right one. Both are actions of a non-activist court (using the real definition of an activist court, not this "I don't like how the court decided" = "activist court" bullshit.) What's happening is that the SCOTUS is reluctant to make changes to an election process this close to the election, either pro-voter ID or anti-voter ID. The court has already declined to make changes at least 5 times this election cycle. This is a "Good Thing" because you don't want to make elections some ever-changing, chaotic process on the eve the election. The resulting confusion alone may even disenfranchise more people than voter ID laws.
Good. If someone really can't afford a state ID, then they should need to show a birth certificate, There needs to be a way to prove their citizenship. Same way as a foreigner can't vote in japan. If you really care about voting, make an effort about it. I'm sure someone can save a few dollars for an ID within one year by being more frugal.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
A few dollars?
Since you have so much money, how about you donate some of it to people who can't afford to pay 20+ dollars for a birth certificate. You could also volunteer to take them to get their new ID too.
It's literally a poll tax. I don't understand how people are supporting a poll tax.
cpp_is_king
Member
If they think that costs and other associated burdens are holding back poor and minorities from voting, they should go door to door and help them get registered, or some anonymous donor can start a foudnation to fund voter registration for poor people.
But people who are not citizens should absolutely not be allowed to vote under any circumstances, and not having a voter ID law to enforce this because of political correctness is madness.
But people who are not citizens should absolutely not be allowed to vote under any circumstances, and not having a voter ID law to enforce this because of political correctness is madness.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
It's because either they buy into the Republican fear mongering of vote fraud even though no evidence exists that it's an issue. Or they are republican and don't like the dirty poor people voting.
I can't think of another valid reason.
Edit:
One other reason:
They think it's going to become an issue. In such case, how about addressing the issue of getting an ID first, then implement the requirement, instead of tackling an issue that does not yet exist.
People who are not citizens can't register to vote, so they can't vote to begin with. That has nothing to do with needing an ID at the poll.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
It is a Poll Tax.
cpp_is_king
Member
Forgive my ignorance, isn't the argument that it keeps illegals from voting? Or am I misinformed?
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