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Surface |OT|
- Thread starter strata8
- Start date
They seem to be copying everything Apple does these days so there's a good chance a refreshed Surface will be out by February.
My thoughts are that the Surface Pro will make even less of a splash in the tablet market than the RT will.
I seriously doubt the fact that there actually is a lucrative "high-end" 1000$+ tablet market that goes beyond tech-geeks on tech-related websites.
Even with it running x86 apps, I also doubt many businesses are going to give a shit and will just get comparatively superior ultrabooks or laptops instead.
We can just hope it finds it's niche somewhere.
I seriously doubt the fact that there actually is a lucrative "high-end" 1000$+ tablet market that goes beyond tech-geeks on tech-related websites.
Even with it running x86 apps, I also doubt many businesses are going to give a shit and will just get comparatively superior ultrabooks or laptops instead.
We can just hope it finds it's niche somewhere.
Unless we believe that there will be significant underlying changes to the OS, why can't the current surface receive software updates?
You guys are weird.
infinityBCRT
Member
Because Windows RT is so much like iOS.
Anyway, theres going to likely be a software update when the Pro comes out but I wouldn't expect refreshed ARM hardware until late summer or fall when MS will have many more MS Stores in North America. Seems like the hardware is more than capable but theres some software kinks to be worked out.
I also think they need some sort of notification center and volume control options (currently when I put Xbox Music in the background the volume goes down significantly, I definitely see where thats useful but it needs an option to toggle that on or off so that I can play music without being forced to snap it to my screen).
I think over time MS will drop the price and hopefully also release a 7" version thats closer to nexus pricing than ipad mini pricing.
Depends on your definition of tablets.
What makes surface pro so different from other laptops?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
There is one for laptops though.
So from my point of view it entirely depends on what angle microsoft is going to market it.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
When I said there were reviews out there that were unethical, Gizmodo was on my mind. Man, fuck that site!
plagiarize
Banned
longevity of these launch models are going to come down to how well they sell, i think. if it's a decent success Microsoft are going to target their applications and updates to ensure things run well on their baby. that's part of why i haven't really hesitated to get this at launch.
for at least a year, and likely for longer, this is going to be the base hardware that everyone targets.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
IMO, it's neither here nor there. The screen is too small to be a usable productivity machine, and the thickness (and probably weight) is too much for a casual use tablet.
I should hope so, Apple still sells the iPad 2.
Talk to those with the original iPad. That thing was put out to pasture rather quickly.
That's why Windows can connect to external monitors. 10" laptops aren't exactly a novel product, premium priced laptops are for most companies.
The fact that it lacks a proper touchpad and keyboard, only comes with a 10 inch display and it's likely to be more expensive than comparable ultrabooks.
The ability to vainly flick between pictures and metro apps is probably really neat for casual end-users, but rather worthless in any conventional business.
Unless we have reason to believe Microsoft going to drastically change their dev cycles for WinRT, the software is far more stable than iOS and Android.
Windows 8 adoption is a different subject and hardly is tied to Surface pro. Same arguments can be made for any of the new form factor devices everyone is releasing.
Since when? It wasn't then they showed it off. The Pro was quite a bit thicker. It's also half a pound heavier. Unless your are just talking about something else altogether. You didn't specify.
I'm a ding bat, skimming over posts and posting myself is a bad idea, especially when also reading over legacy COBOL code. Was thinking RT was being discussed. I too am curious as to how the weight of the of Pro would be for tablet usage, not too worried about the thickness.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
He was talking about the Surface Pro but that doesn't mean his argument is totally valid. There are people who use tablets by holding it by one hand for extended periods of time. You could even say the current iPad is too heavy for those people and this is partly the reason why the 7" classes are springing up but most people who are fine to use 1.5 LB in most orentations will not find themselves at a loss when given 2.1 LB... everything else about the size of the screen and the thickness are a matter of preference and not some dealbreaker.
If you think about it like an über portable Mac Mini, as well as a laptop or tablet replacement, you start to see even more uses. It would literally work as a media server, tiny desktop, etc etc. I don't know if it can mirror and extend displays when plugged in, but a second touch screen monitor would also be relatively badass.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
If it can stream media wirelessly to a 360 or whatever, that'll be really cool.
Can it...?
Can it...?
plagiarize
Banned
i'm really not sure what you mean by that. the surface pro will be good for people in businesses that want a more portable device than a laptop that still allows for heavy productivity software either in the laptop configuration, a tablet configuration or plugged into a regular monitor, keyboard and mouse.
consider an architect doing site visits. tablet mode he can view the drawings and show them to other people on site easily. he can then quickly make changes or notes in laptop mode back at his car. then he can get back to his desk, plug in his big monitor and start the next set of drawings.
it can.
A PC can, so the pro version certainly can.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Can it do it natively like with the iPad and appleTV though? Or does it rely on third party apps?
I feel that if microsoft doesn't look into that kind of integration they are missing out on a huge opportunity.
I feel that if microsoft doesn't look into that kind of integration they are missing out on a huge opportunity.
Whether they do it in smaller chunks or bigger packs, it's still direct from Microsoft and is hardware agnostic...
...It is a good question to ask for ARM devices though since they won't be as straightforward to update as compared to x86. Are there mandatory specifications for WinRT devices? Let me guess, all the current ones are using Tegra 3?
...It is a good question to ask for ARM devices though since they won't be as straightforward to update as compared to x86. Are there mandatory specifications for WinRT devices? Let me guess, all the current ones are using Tegra 3?
plagiarize
Banned
it's native using the share charm on metro apps, or right click and play to on the desktop.
This isn't normal Windows. The core software isn't third party replaceable.
Windows 7 is still useful on the web because you can install Chrome or Firefox. Windows 7 shipped with IE 8, and if you were stuck on IE 8 Windows 7 would be obsolete.
Will Microsoft update IE on Windows RT? On one hand, they did on Windows 7, but that is probably because of the competition from Chrome and Firefox. Look at Windows Phone 7.x where there is no competition like on RT. Windows Phone devices shipping right now will never see a browser upgrade and there are no third party alternatives.
Apple has a track record of reasonable updates. Microsoft's record is poor for this kind of device.
Look into SmartGlass also. Right now it only works with content from the Xbox Marketplace I believe, but they are planning to update to support other content as well.
LukasTaves
Member
But iPad 2 got just now (with iphone 5 and ipad4) surpassed cpu performance wise.
Up until last month it was pretty much the most general performance you could get on any ios device...
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Ah, awesome to hear that.
Everdred
Member
I keep getting hung up on these "performance issues". I keep going back and forth on cancelling my pre-ordered because I'm worried the device won't be snappy enough. I fear that it will fall behind new tablets in the coming months and become outdated quickly.
At the same time I feel like this is irrational and I'm falling for a lot of pro-Apple shenanigans. That Microsoft would not allow their flagship device to under perform and quickly become outdated.
Someone set me straight!
At the same time I feel like this is irrational and I'm falling for a lot of pro-Apple shenanigans. That Microsoft would not allow their flagship device to under perform and quickly become outdated.
Someone set me straight!
plagiarize
Banned
actually, my bad. it's the devices charm, not the share charm.
No. Samsung and Dell are shipping with Snapdragon S4s.
I could be wrong, but wouldn't most of the default apps relying on a lot of external data (Facebook, Twitter, marketplace updates, different sports and news sites) mean that the initial loading just takes a while because they're pulling in a large amount of content? Most reviews have said that they're responsive once fully loaded.
plagiarize
Banned
my Windows Phone 7 recieved a browser upgrade. i don't see how it makes sense to compare an OS about to be be replaced with one that's about to launch. WP7 devices recieved a substantial broswer upgrade. your logic doesn't hold.
Xplatformer
Member
Absolutely what I was thinking. Its a fricken tablet. Are the Internet...netflix...going to be that much better based on hardware revisions? Fruit Ninjas?
If Microsoft improves the software side over the next 2 years people wont care about the Tegra chip.
And Windows RT will be replaced with Windows RT 2 in less than two years. That's one upgrade of IE and then you're done, if the WP pattern holds.
Which is fine for a lot of people, but I was responding to the poster who wanted to compare RT to the lifespan of a regular Windows device, which is much, much longer.
If Microsoft wouldn't update the browser on Windows RT which is also on Windows 8... no I don't see that line of reasoning working, even so that's kinda a big if they decide to abandon ship.
Aside from the WP8 jump which they had to make for kernel switch, the WP7.5 was delivered very well considering it involved multiple manufacturers. Even with WP8 they're still providing a WP7.8 update. Plus Windows Phone is fairly new and Windows itself is very established and on different kinds of hardware entirely.
Everdred
Member
I think this part is important. It seems to me that with the Kernel switch, MS had no choice. Even so they still provided 7.8, which is as close as they could get using the old kernel.
Support has been great, in my opinion.
They will make RT2 in less than two years because of....?
plagiarize
Banned
i really don't see RT2 happening in 'less than two years'. do you see Windows 9 happening in less than two years? Windows Phone 8 will not be less than two years after WP7. it'll be just over. unless WP8 came out last Sunday.
I wouldn't expect Windows RT to have the lifetime of Windows 8, but I think it is a reach to suggest that there is a pattern to non-updates because of a single instance with WP 7.X. Especially when we know and understand the reason behind it and how it won't be an issue anytime in the future.
I'm not that worried about the longevity of the Surface. According to Nvidia the Tegra 3 is comparable to the Core 2 Duo (see benchmark). That's pretty decent. A Core 2 Duo can easily run Windows 8 and I wouldn't worry that this could change anytime soon. That's as fast as the notebook I'm using right now and faster than my desktop PC (which runs Windows 8).
With Windows RT there aren't that many programs running in parallel either, so the 1-2 visible apps get to use all that performance. Apart from games there won't be many particularly compute-intensive programs, either.
I am able to run 3D games on my 1.5 year old Samsung 700T so I am a little dubious of any claims of performance problems. Of course, if perf is a primary desire, why not just get an Ultra book, plug in a 360 Controller for Windows, and go to town on Steam...
Tablets are for laying on your sofa and watching Netflix or some form of casual entertainment, Surface is for something in the middle like writing quick e-mails or doing light productivity tasks on top of entertainment.
Tablets are for laying on your sofa and watching Netflix or some form of casual entertainment, Surface is for something in the middle like writing quick e-mails or doing light productivity tasks on top of entertainment.
Which is why this is perfect for me. The ability to multitask and do those casual things without having to fire up my work-issued laptop to read documents and respond to emails is invaluable to me.