Technosteve
Banned
I think microsoft zuned themselves by having a really crappy operating system. Windows Office is unusable with stylus/touch.
Surface |OT|
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zephervack
Member
I find it incredible that a while back in 2005 I payed $1400 for a shitty dell Laptop and now we are here with a really nice hardware design that includes and SSD, a near top of the line Intel CPU and a touchscreen for $1000.
Anyway, I was so hyped for the Surface pro but now im just going to wait, there are so many things that bother me with it...
1. Should have bundled a keyboard, the touch keyboard is probably super cheap to produce.
2. The kickstand is a huge issue for me, why didnt they implement it in a way that you could select from like 10 different steps of angles? I love that I can rest my current tablet on a desk at less than 30 degrees angles, this is impossible with the Surface.
3. What where they thinking with the pen? they really couldnt add a little pocket for it somewhere in the hardware design?
If I was in the market for a laptop right now I would probably consider the Pro but right now I guess im just gonna continue using my boring company provided Lenovo laptop
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Anyway, I was so hyped for the Surface pro but now im just going to wait, there are so many things that bother me with it...
1. Should have bundled a keyboard, the touch keyboard is probably super cheap to produce.
2. The kickstand is a huge issue for me, why didnt they implement it in a way that you could select from like 10 different steps of angles? I love that I can rest my current tablet on a desk at less than 30 degrees angles, this is impossible with the Surface.
3. What where they thinking with the pen? they really couldnt add a little pocket for it somewhere in the hardware design?
If I was in the market for a laptop right now I would probably consider the Pro but right now I guess im just gonna continue using my boring company provided Lenovo laptop
.I must be using a different office. Office 2013 works fine with a stylus.
That's what I figured too. I know for me, the Pro is gonna be more portable/lighter/have better battery life than my current laptop. The ability to run full Windows 8 on a tablet (i.e. no keyboard attached) is a godsend as at night I often like to lay in bed watching something while browsing (which admittedly works fine with my laptop but I'm almost certain it'll work even better with a tablet). I actually use my laptop mostly for consumption nowadays, with the occasional paper/coding project here and there, so being able to transform it into a laptop for those particular moments is a lot more logical than always having a full fledged laptop. Screen size I'm alright with as my laptop is an 11.3", so the downsize to 10.6" shouldn't be too jarring. The Wacom pen/digitizer is just an added bonus.
I can see why people would be disappointed as it's not the perfect synergy of laptop/tablet. But for those who know what they want or can get behind what the Pro has to offer, I doubt those people will be dissapointed.
I bought my first laptop for University in 1996 and I paid about $2500 for an IBM Thinkpad that had a passive screen.... things have come a long way.
I played around with the Pro for a bit at lunch and while it was a bit warm, I would attribute that to the screen being on for hours already and it being actively plugged in the whole time. The size and weight seem fine to me since this would be replacing laptop usage for me more than a tablet (and I still have an iPad and Playbook in case I really need a "tablet"). Battery life is the only thing that I really wish was better, but it is probably the least of my concerns so I should be fine with it in practice.
Some points that have been mulling around my head after reading a fair amount of the reviews this morning:
- Battery life is as expected (4.5 to 5.5 hrs), a bit low but not unexepcted. There is a massive inconsistency in the reported battery times which I am going to put down to app selection. Maybe the video application they used isn't the most optimised, maybe the browser they used needs more CPU power, maybe they are running a few background processes (IRC), maybe the power mode is not the most battery friendly. I would like to see what difference (if any) putting the PC in power saver mode does.
- Every "main stream" tech blog dismissed the stylus as a nice accessory, like they have been brainwashed into thinking that a stylus is wrong and never bothered to try and use. The verge kept on calling it a capacitive stylus. I only saw one review look at its merits in OneNote.
- Does no reviewer understand that the cameras are there for video conferencing only? Does anyone want to take pictures holding up a (heavy) tablet?
- For a writer, I can understand that they need to sit with a laptop on their lap to write. However for most people using an iPad seems fine, and for short text input i'm sure either the onscreen keyboard or stylus panel input will work great. As for the video, while I have experience that a few times, it did feel over contrived.
- One major complaint was the DPI scaling, in particular the non-integer and how its a global setting and not independent of display. This is a very valid concern, and one I hope Microsoft looks to rectify in a software update.
Overall I expected the battery life to improve slightly (5%) with firmware updates down the line and I expect the Haswell version will add another 20% to the battery life. But I still have a Surface Pro on my shopping list when it releases in the UK - whenever that is.
- Battery life is as expected (4.5 to 5.5 hrs), a bit low but not unexepcted. There is a massive inconsistency in the reported battery times which I am going to put down to app selection. Maybe the video application they used isn't the most optimised, maybe the browser they used needs more CPU power, maybe they are running a few background processes (IRC), maybe the power mode is not the most battery friendly. I would like to see what difference (if any) putting the PC in power saver mode does.
- Every "main stream" tech blog dismissed the stylus as a nice accessory, like they have been brainwashed into thinking that a stylus is wrong and never bothered to try and use. The verge kept on calling it a capacitive stylus. I only saw one review look at its merits in OneNote.
- Does no reviewer understand that the cameras are there for video conferencing only? Does anyone want to take pictures holding up a (heavy) tablet?
- For a writer, I can understand that they need to sit with a laptop on their lap to write. However for most people using an iPad seems fine, and for short text input i'm sure either the onscreen keyboard or stylus panel input will work great. As for the video, while I have experience that a few times, it did feel over contrived.
- One major complaint was the DPI scaling, in particular the non-integer and how its a global setting and not independent of display. This is a very valid concern, and one I hope Microsoft looks to rectify in a software update.
Overall I expected the battery life to improve slightly (5%) with firmware updates down the line and I expect the Haswell version will add another 20% to the battery life. But I still have a Surface Pro on my shopping list when it releases in the UK - whenever that is.
I will unbox the fuck out of it. I'm totally hyped for this thing. (I have never done an unboxing video)
Any artist's review of the stylus on the Surface Pro? I'm not one, but most reviews just toss in a paragraph or two about it. While I'm not a power user, I would like to know if the stylus is just another navigation tool or will I be able to do everything I could do with the Wacom tablet?
Surface Pro Engineering Team is doing an AMA on Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18063g/i_am_panos_panay_with_the_surface_windows_8_pro/
They haven't really answered much yet though
They haven't really answered much yet though
zephervack
Member
Doubt they will answer the top questions, but It would be really interesting if they do, people are bringing up some really valid concerns, I just dont see how they can answer them without looking bad.
heh, thanks! lol
No worries, I'm sure they'll be a bunch out there in the coming weeks. Just means more when you have more context about the reviewer.
. That said, we are also working on a firmware update that will bring more volume to Surface RT devices on market today!!
barkers crest
Member
And here I was thinking it was just my hearing aids going out.
worries me though. I don't want to buy a cover now only to see them release one with a battery. I hope they announce on Saturday other wise i'd be pissed if a month later it comes out
yes but it will charge at roughly half the speed
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/9
I'll most likely buy a second pro charger and keep it in my timbuk2 as the size difference between them doesn't warrant the halving of speed.
He said it takes 2.692 hours to charge the surface with the packed in one. So yea
Hmm my personal preference would be to get a touch cover at time of sale. If a "battery cover" came out later, I would get one and use that when I need long(er) battery life.
I've used both extensively and I don't care that much for the touch cover. I was planning to go type cover at launch. But this worries me because what if its not a cover but just a stand or something ?
Anton Sugar
Member
Stop cherrypicking.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I'd really like to see this too. The main reason I want one is so it can be my portable Photoshop machine.
Captain N. Tenneal
Member
From what I've heard from the grapevine, it's a Wacom digitizer with 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity. So it would be as high as the intuos line, or previous gen Cintiqs. I'm considering getting one and selling off my portable cintiq for that very reason. Other wacom pens work with it, as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCPyUbw8AzY
this dude can use it in his lap while sitting on a balance ball and curses a lot .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peIa1PEOLi4
this dude uses it in his lap for over an hour in a time lapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfILGoUfug
only braking seems to cause a problem for this dude while using the surface in the back of a taxi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iCLcjQfOtI
just a few in a quick youtube search. Though I'm sure that guy in the verge video is right
GuitarAtomik
Member
Awesome. I wasn't sure how many levels of pressure the Intuos line had. Damn I really want this.
Anton Sugar
Member
Sorry, I'm horrible at sarcasm.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I'm gonna go to Best Buy today with a USB stick w/ Paint Tool SAI and try it out in about 4 hours. I'll report back later today. (assuming they have the pen. If they don't I'll try an S-Pen)
My art cridentials:
Self Portrait
Animu
iFootball
Member
...so, like I said on my previous post, I was just in BestBuy and played with both units for a little while... I decided to pre-order a 128GB Surface Pro =) .. it's just the type of hybrid that I was looking for, and I'm ok with the drawbacks for now
oh by the way, being the 'big' BestBuy in the city, I was told I was the fourth person to place a pre-order today... not really sure what that says about demand.
oh by the way, being the 'big' BestBuy in the city, I was told I was the fourth person to place a pre-order today... not really sure what that says about demand.
a secret-boss
Banned
i think that's y they r not advertising this battery keyboards so u would double dip.
I might just get the tablet for now. use the on screen keyboard or get a wedge keyboard
this is the reason I went this Saturday at MS store to check out the stylus and sketch some stuff. I'm really impressed by it. I can put my palm on the screen while drawing on One Note with no problem
crisdecuba
Member
So I feel like a weirdo... I've never gotten used to using a laptop on my lap. It's always uncomfortable for me. I need a desk. Anyone else have the same experience?
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, I never actually use a laptop on my lap--feels so low and gets too hot. I always have a wide book or one of those "laptop pillow" things.
plagiarize
Banned
well it's official. my dept is all getting bought a 64 gig Pro. the purchase request was approved today, and the Microsoft store we are purchasing from confirmed they had our units set aside. obviously i'd prefer the 128 gig version, but hey, it's not like it's costing me anything.
i'm looking forwards to seeing how this compares to my RT, and it's going to provide a lot of use cases for me. it's going to be my new notebook, obviously. i'm planning on making it my primary workstation in fact. 4 days a week I work mostly at my desk, 1 day a week I work over at another site where I don't really have a single workspace, just whatever's available.
this thing is going to make doing the inventory here a lot easier, and make one note a lot more useful. and it's probably going to play AVP classic just fine on certain occasions
I've never had any problems using my RT on my lap with the touch covers. I know a lot of people swear by the type cover, but I wouldn't trade my touch cover in for one, and I'm glad work is buying touch covers rather than type covers for the surface pros.
i'm looking forwards to seeing how this compares to my RT, and it's going to provide a lot of use cases for me. it's going to be my new notebook, obviously. i'm planning on making it my primary workstation in fact. 4 days a week I work mostly at my desk, 1 day a week I work over at another site where I don't really have a single workspace, just whatever's available.
this thing is going to make doing the inventory here a lot easier, and make one note a lot more useful. and it's probably going to play AVP classic just fine on certain occasions
I've never had any problems using my RT on my lap with the touch covers. I know a lot of people swear by the type cover, but I wouldn't trade my touch cover in for one, and I'm glad work is buying touch covers rather than type covers for the surface pros.
BrownChickenBrownCow
Banned
With most computers if you don't have proof of purchase then your warranty is generally tied to the serial number. For example if serial was tied to a lot that shipped out with launch, then your warranty will probably until oct.xx.2013
If you have proof of purchase then it would be from the date on the receipt.
Cheers. Unfortunately I've found out that the Surface didn't include a keyboard so not such a good deal after all. The search continues.
Had a similar experience when I wanted to check out the Yoga. The lock prevented the unit from folding over. When I asked for it to be removed, I was essentially laughed at. Thanks best buy.
It's a downside when the OS and apps don't properly scale across it!
Compare them with a Macbook Air, even an Asus UX31, and you'll see it's shitty.
You don't need to convert, you can buy a $3 app that will play anything. Or get an Android tablet.
Non metro Windows 8 is as useless as Windows 7 was on a touchscreen.
Mass market has decided that tablets are pretty much entertainment and light work devices.
Works fine for me and they claim they have improvements coming down the pipe. So don't see a big deal.
Yet infinitely better than touch on a mac book air or a stylus on a mac air
How do you get it on the ipad to begin with ?
Works perfectly fine with the included pen and at 125-150% scaling works as well as ios with touch.
Maybe but maybe not. The market will continue to change and the ipad has a slew of hugely popular keyboard / mouse accessories
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Just got back from best buys and I'm sold. My brother and I played with one for nearly an hour. They let me preorder it with the $50 gift card thing, also bought the touch cover in blue since they only had 1 left. I'll stop back for the rt charger before Saturday since it works.
For what I use my laptop and ipad for its great (watching fansubs, streaming hd vids, reading comics and web browsing).
For what I use my laptop and ipad for its great (watching fansubs, streaming hd vids, reading comics and web browsing).
You don't represent the majority, so working fine for you is pointless. Many people don't even use their LCD's at their native resolution because the text is too small, and just adjusting text size doesn't work across the board with all apps, so people just use a lower screen resolution. There are no such worries on the iPad.
Most people would rather use traditional Windows apps like MS office with a proper keyboard and touchpad than a stylus or touchscreen. And the iPad leads on touch enabled apps by a wide margin.
Either through iTunes or from a web page that the app serves up.
The market disagrees.
Keyboard makes sense for people who type a lot. There are no mouse accessories for the iPad that work across the OS. The only use they have is through specialized apps like remote desktop.
There is a reason that the keyboard/mouse combo has not been dethroned in over 30 years.
lastflowers
Banned
Stop feeding the troll. Keyboard complaints are silly.
Couldn't you have bought the cheaper RT if they are your main uses?
Why ? My mother with her ipad 3 has to zoom in crazy close so that the words are big enough for her to read. Seems to affect people even on that platform.
The ipad doesn't offer any traditional windows apps and never will while every day more touch enabled apps are released for windows 8 .
The great thing about the surface pro is that you can connect anything to it.
So I have to use a sub par piece of software to get my movies ? I can't just plug in a usb cable and use the built in file managers to move the files around from pc to tablet ?
Doesn't seem like they do considering how the devices in the market vary . If people wanted a movie / web surfing machine only then ipad would have a 100% of the market. The fact that android tablets exist and make up almost half the market proves you wrong as they offer more than ipads even if its not much more
But she doesn't have any problem scrolling or hitting the buttons on the browser app or any other app. 1920x1080 on a 10.6" screen with traditional windows apps means you will miss scroll bars, menus, buttons when trying to use that touchscreen.
Get an Android tablet if that bothers you so much then.
That makes no sense as Android tablets are also perfectly capable of browsing the web and watching movies. The market wants a CHEAP movie/web surfing machine, hence Android marketshare.
and yet she uses a dumb stylus on it. The pro will have an even more precise stylus and will be even better for her.
I have one. I want something that lets me do even more than an android tablet so I don't need a laptop also
android allows you to do more than what you can do on an ipad.
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