Support NeoGAF

[AgentP]

I think microsoft zuned themselves by having a really crappy operating system. Windows Office is unusable with stylus/touch.

That reminds me the other day SNL had a joke about chimps using iPads, the punchline was the other apes were jealous they had Zunes. They didn't even bother to put the Surface in the joke, maybe it rhymed or something. Still was strange.

 

[coldfoot]

and yet she uses a dumb stylus on it. The pro will have an even more precise stylus and will be even better for her.

Stylus = niche.

android allows you to do more than what you can do on an ipad.

This is demonstrably false. Android doesn't have the useful tablet productivity apps that iPad does, so no you can't do more than on it than an iPad. There is nothing comparable to Garageband for example.

 

[eastmen]

Stylus = niche.


This is demonstrably false. Android doesn't have the useful tablet productivity apps that iPad does, so no you can't do more than on it than an iPad. There is nothing comparable to Garageband for example.

Stylus = niche ? How so ? I see people with stylus's even with ipads and they are pretty bad. A real stylus will get much better usage.

Well there is aviary , uloops , four tracks .


But what are the replacements on an ipad for windows programs like adobe permier or photoshop or skyrim and the likes.

There aren't so there isn't much of a point even mentioning the ipad in the same breath as the surface pro until it can do those things.

 

[Bit-Bit]

That Verge vidoe review is such crap. Too much time spent on trying to type on his laptop and not enough time talking about the pen input. It's a freakin Wacom pen, it needs to be more hyped than this.

Also, I've had a laptop since they first came out and I can count the number of times I've tried to type with it actually on my laptop on one hand. Seeing as how my writs would cramp up within 5 minutes of typing, it's a pretty weird thing to dock points from.

Most people I know buy a lapdock if they want to type on their laps for any period of time.

 

[Warnen]

Couldn't you have bought the cheaper RT if they are your main uses?

Wanted 1080p screen and do some light gaming (walking dead), my small iTunes library will also be on it, not being able to install legacy programs is a deal breaker for me.

 

[maeh2k]

Stylus = niche.

For now. There haven't been any popular devices with an active stylus. That doesn't mean people don't like it.
There's a chance pen input will come in a big way soon. Especially pen in combination with touch. Pen input is really great for a number of situations.

Recently Intel did a study on pen input according to which people like pen input even for traditional notebook form factors: http://ultrabooknews.com/2013/01/28/digitizers-and-ultrabooks-what-people-want-design-recommendations-and-developer-tips-video-series/

 

[TheLaughingStock]

But she doesn't have any problem scrolling or hitting the buttons on the browser app or any other app. 1920x1080 on a 10.6" screen with traditional windows apps means you will miss scroll bars, menus, buttons when trying to use that touchscreen.
.

I have trouble with drop down boxes and getting the right links like page #s to open on the iPad. Google chrome on the android phone where it magnifies the link and you can choose what you want seems ideal for now. Surface you just go into the registry but the avg Joe won't be aware of that making the touch experience better.

 

[RurouniZel]

I'm gonna go to Best Buy today with a USB stick w/ Paint Tool SAI and try it out in about 4 hours. I'll report back later today. (assuming they have the pen. If they don't I'll try an S-Pen)

My art cridentials:

Self Portrait

Animu

Well I have it a try, but perhaps my settings were completely wrong because I just couldn't get any pressure sensitivity out of the thing. It seemed like it had only two pressure settings, on and off.

Does anyone know if there's some sort of setting I'm supposed to turn on to activate the supposed pressure sensitivity?

 

[coldfoot]

I have trouble with drop down boxes and getting the right links like page #s to open on the iPad. Google chrome on the android phone where it magnifies the link and you can choose what you want seems ideal for now. Surface you just go into the registry but the avg Joe won't be aware of that making the touch experience better.

That is related to the actual rendering of the web page, aka content. The apps themselves do not have any such issues like they do on the pro.

 

[RurouniZel]

So I just got home and checked the settings on my computer program, the one I brought to BB with me. The settings were the same. Yet on my Intuos (which is also 1,024 levels of pressure sensitivity) it was actually pressure sensitive (i.e. when I touched lightly it drew a light thin line, and as I pressed harder it grew darker and thicker). But when I was using the Surface Pro at BB, it did nothing of the sort. It's like the drivers weren't working or something... which is disappointing because I'm not plonking down $1K on it unless I know how to make it draw more than an even-weighted line that doesn't change to a lighter tone when I barely touch the screen.

There's gotta be something I'm missing.

EDIT: Is it supposed to have all the pressure sensitivity out the gate, or does it require that I install Wacom Drivers first to get the desired effect?

 

[EriCKY]

So I just got home and checked the settings on my computer program, the one I brought to BB with me. The settings were the same. Yet on my Intuos (which is also 1,024 levels of pressure sensitivity) it was actually pressure sensitive (i.e. when I touched lightly it drew a light thin line, and as I pressed harder it grew darker and thicker). But when I was using the Surface Pro at BB, it did nothing of the sort. It's like the drivers weren't working or something... which is disappointing because I'm not plonking down $1K on it unless I know how to make it draw more than an even-weighted line that doesn't change to a lighter tone when I barely touch the screen.

There's gotta be something I'm missing.

EDIT: Is it supposed to have all the pressure sensitivity out the gate, or does it require that I install Wacom Drivers first to get the desired effect?

from what i remember only certain programs take advantage of the pressure sensitivity

 

[FStop7]

yeah you need to use something like photoshop, illustrator, sketchbook, etc for pressure sensitivity

 

[RurouniZel]

from what i remember only certain programs take advantage of the pressure sensitivity

yeah you need to use something like photoshop, illustrator, sketchbook, etc for pressure sensitivity

Oh. Well if I can't use Paint Tool SAI with pressure sensitivity on the Surface Pro in the same manner I can on my Win7 Desktop + Intuos combo, then my boner's officially gone.

 

[JaggedSac]

Oh. Well if I can't use Paint Tool SAI with pressure sensitivity on the Surface Pro in the same manner I can on my Win7 Desktop + Intuos combo, then my boner's officially gone.

Did u install that on the Pro in the store?

edit: I have no idea what paint tool sai is, im assuming it is software.

 

[m0dus]

I hung out at the ms store and took my WACOM stylus with me. Played with the surface Pro for several hours. I too bought a copy of easy paint SAI, though it loaded it didn't have pressure sensitivity out of the gate. But that's because you have to install the WACOM driver separately with some tweaks To get it working properly with Windows 8 . tweaks that you cannot do on the demo units in the store. I know this for fact because I have a Samsung series 7 slate that I use SAI with regularly.

I am absolutely confident that SAI will work fine with the surface, and based on how much of a joy it was to work with it standing in the store, the wait has been worthwhile.

Quick sketch in fresh paint:

Project on SAI on windows 8 slate

 

[RurouniZel]

Did u install that on the Pro in the store?

edit: I have no idea what paint tool sai is, im assuming it is software.

Thankfully the program doesn't need to be installed. I can just run the executable file directly off of the USB Stick I have. I'm going to go back tomorrow because I'm figuring (hoping) that it's just a settings issue. I'd just rather figure out those issues BEFORE I charge $1000 on my card. I don't want to have to return it if I buy it because it's a hassle, esp. since a blizzard's blowing through the Northeast this weekend... >>;

I hung out at the ms store and took my WACOM stylus with me. Played with the surface Pro for several hours. I too bought a copy of easy paint SAI, though it loaded it didn't have pressure sensitivity out of the gate. But that's because you have to install the WACOM driver separately with some tweaks To get it working properly with Windows 8 . tweaks that you cannot do on the demo units in the store. I know this for fact because I have a Samsung series 7 slate that I use SAI with regularly.

I am absolutely confident that SAI will work fine with the surface, and based on how much of a joy it was to work with it standing in the store, the wait has been worthwhile.

Quick sketch in fresh paint:

http://i.imgur.com/AJrvxH5.jpg[IMG]

Project on SAI on windows 8 slate

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/k1lSSTl.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Ooooooh, so that's the problem is it? If that's all there is to it, then sure. Can you tell me what drivers I have to install, and how to install them?

 

[m0dus]

See my post above.

Edit - standard Wacom pen tablet driver, believe it or not.

 

[RurouniZel]

See my post above.

Edit - standard Wacom pen tablet driver, believe it or not.

Huh, that's funny. What kind of tweaks do you need to do, and what kind of Wacom pen do you use? Because I heard that it wouldn't work with an Intuos pen, it needed an ERM pen or something?

 

[m0dus]

You can't install the wacom driver on the demo units. Also you may need to turn off flicks. I used the pen from my series 7 slate with no issues.

 

[RurouniZel]

You can't install the wacom driver on the demo units. Also you may need to turn off flicks. I used the pen from my series 7 slate with no issues.

Okay, thanks for the advice! Sounds like I will be purchasing this come Saturday after all.

 

[Bearded Dudebro]

Just got back from best buys and I'm sold. . .They let me preorder it with the $50 gift card thing

How did you get them to let you do this?

 

[iFootball]

I also pre-ordered mine at my local BB... all I had to do was ask to closest BB employee; she knew exactly what the $50 gift-card preorder scheme was all about.

 

[Homeboyd]

I also pre-ordered mine at my local BB... all I had to do was ask to closest BB employee; she knew exactly what the $50 gift-card preorder scheme was all about.

Tell me more about this

 

[plagiarize]

A quote from the Wired review:

But as long as you’re plugged in (or at least not away from a plug for long stretches), you can go ahead and use it as your sole computer and rarely feel cheated, shorted or left out. That’s more than can be said for most of the Windows 8 hybrids I’ve seen so far, and it’s definitely far more capable than the Surface RT.

and that's why I want one. It's going to replace my work desktop, and allow me to use it for occasional tablet situations and allow me to easily bring it from one workplace to the other (which is valuable to me since I work Tuesdays out of a different location).

As a desktop replacement for someone that also needs portability and occasional note taking and material referencing in meetings, or out on the floor note taking when diagnosing or inventorying our machines... there isn't a single machine that offers me as much.

It's also why I chose the RT for home, where I want my tablet to be a tablet with the option of a full keyboard, and with solid RDP support to connect to my primary desktop. that battery life and that form factor were much more important to me than full software support for something I intended to use for web browsing, video viewing and as a touch screen capable RDP client.

 

[eastmen]

yea I have my note 2 for surfing the web randomly through the day . My surface pro will work for me while on the couch or traveling and then I have my nook for when I want to read for hours at a time.

Much better than my current set up of note 2 / touch pad / laptop / nook

 

[iFootball]

Tell me more about this

I told an employee I wanted to pre-order one, she asked exactly which model and explained that I needed to pay for a $50 BestBuy gift-card (think of it as a deposit) that would be put into the value of the Surface, which I would then pay in full the day I pick-up my Surface.

She entered some data in the register and printed out my Surface Pro pre-order information, and told me I would get an email confirming the day my Surface comes in

 

[JaggedSac]

Huh, that's funny. What kind of tweaks do you need to do, and what kind of Wacom pen do you use? Because I heard that it wouldn't work with an Intuos pen, it needed an ERM pen or something?

Anandtech review said it used ERM, they probably have a return policy if it doesn't work for you though.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/4

Edit: Sorry, when I reread it, he says presumably.

 

[Feep]

Why is no one commenting on those mad skillz?

M0dus, great stuff. Very talented. = D

 

[Warnen]

Tell me more about this

For some reason not all Best Buy do it or just don't want to do it. The 1st best buys I went to today wouldn't let me preorder (they didn't have the surface pro demo hooked to the internet too, asked them to sign into a network so I could test it and I was told no).


If they do let you basically you just buy a $50 gift card then they use that to hold you one(128 or 64 what ever you want) and email you when you can pick it up.

 

[Malleymal]

Played with it at the Microsoft Store... I loved it.. I will buy it in vegas this weekend after I put 600 on black and win

 

[Haklong]

Why is no one commenting on those mad skillz?

M0dus, great stuff. Very talented. = D

M0dus' work is always amazing.

 

[Razdek]

I think Paul Thurott said it best when he said that when Microsoft said that the surface was a no compromise experience it's nothing but compromises. You either have to choose the RT with long battery life but no legacy support or the pro with legacy support but bad battery life. Better off waiting for the version 2 surface to come out.

 

[Totakeke]

Every device is full of compromises if you don't like it.

 

[eastmen]

I think Paul Thurott said it best when he said that when Microsoft said that the surface was a no compromise experience it's nothing but compromises. You either have to choose the RT with long battery life but no legacy support or the pro with legacy support but bad battery life. Better off waiting for the version 2 surface to come out.

Name one device that isn't full of compromises ?


Ipad = no desktop apps , weak hardware

Androd = same problems

atom tablets = weak hardware

amd tablets = don't exist

 

[MThanded]

So i actually think the pro is interesting.

It not being a usable laptop kills any hype though.

I wish they had a case option similar to the transformer. It needs to be able to self support the screen without the kickstand.

 

[Feep]

It not being a usable laptop kills any hype though.

It isn't?

I wish they had a case option similar to the transformer. It needs to be able to self support the screen without the kickstand.

Why?

 

[m0dus]

Okay, thanks for the advice! Sounds like I will be purchasing this come Saturday after all.

Besides, you can return it if worse comes to worse I plan on buying it day 1, as I've not had a tablet with a nice quality screen like this with the digitizer married to the screen since my axiotron modbooks (and those core2duo MacBooks are getting slow these days!)

 

[m0dus]

So i actually think the pro is interesting.

It not being a usable laptop kills any hype though.

I wish they had a case option similar to the transformer. It needs to be able to self support the screen without the kickstand.

Well, a lap desk might do the trick? Something compact, like a Targus one?

You've given me an idea actually...I think I might 3D print a custom cradle for this sucker. One that can hold it in ones lap with a keyboard cover at, say, a 45 degree angle? Would any potential gaf buyers be interested?

Anyone have any spec sheets with blueprints or physical dimensions?

 

[derFeef]

Any europe news? :/

 

[Funky Papa]

Any europe news? :/

Yes. Microsoft sent a telegram telling us to fuck off.


Again.

 

[Omni]

So I'm thinking about buying a Surface for university as carrying my 15" laptop around is pretty inconvenient.

Is it worth it? Plus how's the battery in it?

 

[RurouniZel]

Besides, you can return it if worse comes to worse I plan on buying it day 1, as I've not had a tablet with a nice quality screen like this with the digitizer married to the screen since my axiotron modbooks (and those core2duo MacBooks are getting slow these days!)

While I don't have a modded one, I do have a core2duo MacBook and I totally know what you mean. Not fast enough these days. ;_;

 

[Nero3000]

So I'm thinking about buying a Surface for university as carrying my 15" laptop around is pretty inconvenient.

Is it worth it? Plus how's the battery in it?

Yes, i would say it is definitely worth it.

The RT version gets 8-10 hrs battery and the Pro gets 5ish hours.

 

[Discusguy]

I was all set to get the surface rt this weekend until I read about the vizio z60. Stumbled on it after reading the surface pro review on anandtech. Seems nice. No mention of release date though.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6672/vizio-tablet-pc

 

[eastmen]

I was all set to get the surface rt this weekend until I read about the vizio z60. Stumbled on it after reading the surface pro review on anandtech. Seems nice. No mention of release date though.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6672/vizio-tablet-pc

the z-60 is just a modified c-50 . SO you can look at the acer iconia w500 and msi windpad 110 w for examples of what its capable of.

It uses much more power than the atom tablets and the arm tablets so it might not be your best bet.

the iconia w500 gets about 4h 6 minutes at video playback with a 36wh battery.

The surface rt will get 8-9 hours with a 32wh hour battery.


The w500 uses the c-50 which is a 9w chip vs the z60 which is a 5.8w chip. So you might pick up some energy savings there but it wont magicly double battery life. Mabye get you another hour or so

 

[Nero3000]

*sigh* it's sad that such a fuss was made about this whole "issue", that someone had to do some proper journalism.


http://www.zdnet.com/surface-pro-ve...eing-dishonest-with-storage-space-7000011009/

 

[brotkasten]

*sigh* it's sad that such a fuss was made about this whole "issue", that someone had to do some proper journalism.


http://www.zdnet.com/surface-pro-ve...eing-dishonest-with-storage-space-7000011009/

But the Surface is a tablet, so it should be compared to tablets, no?

 

[dLMN8R]

But the Surface is a tablet, so it should be compared to tablets, no?

The Surface Pro is more of a laptop than a tablet, in literally every single way except for the fact that the keyboard detaches and it has a touch screen.

-It has the CPU of a laptop
-It has ram of a laptop
-It has the OS and compatibility of a laptop
-It has the openness of a laptop, to the point where installing Linux on it is 100% supported
-It has the price of a laptop
-It has the battery life of a laptop

 

[Anton Sugar]

But the Surface is a tablet, so it should be compared to tablets, no?

 

[DagsJT]

Brilliant gif, made me LOL.

Just bought a Surface RT from eBay, should arrive by Monday. Very excited and already bookmarking pages with tips and tricks etc. I'll get a 64GB SD card next month.