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Survivor 32: Kaôh Rng |OT| Anything that can Kaôh Rng, will.

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
She was Aubry without the neurotic breakdown and fits.

Huh?

Aubry was shown as in charge nearly the whole back half of the game. She had Joe do whatever she wanted, and even managed to control Tai at the end.

Michelle was one of Aubry's numbers until the end. At no point was Michelle ever shown to be in charge of anyone so I'm not sure where you get that point.

Sorry to nitpick one point of your entire post, but that specifically stood out to me
 

kirblar

Member
Also, apparently Debbie voted for Michele and Nick voted for Aubry.

The jury vote makes even less sense now.
Nick's makes sense. Huge fan of the game, had the Greg/Rich style scene w/ Aubry, was actually calling Michele an "emotional player" in interviews.
 

Grexeno

Member
Nick's makes sense. Huge fan of the game, had the Greg/Rich style scene w/ Aubry, was actually calling Michele an "emotional player" in interviews.
It's Debbie that doesn't make sense. I know she was saying she would never vote for Aubry when she went out, but then her Jury speech was literally "holy fuck Aubry you are awesome. Also I'm voting for Michele anyway because reasons."
 

noshten

Member
It's Debbie that doesn't make sense. I know she was saying she would never vote for Aubry when she went out, but then her Jury speech was literally "holy fuck Aubry you are awesome. Also I'm voting for Michele anyway because reasons."

I think her vote makes perfect sense, she said she would never vote for Aubry and her FTC speech was simply softening the blow
 

kirblar

Member
It's Debbie that doesn't make sense. I know she was saying she would never vote for Aubry when she went out, but then her Jury speech was literally "holy fuck Aubry you are awesome. Also I'm voting for Michele anyway because reasons."
She was pissed about how she went out.
 

Grexeno

Member
I think her vote makes perfect sense, she said she would never vote for Aubry and her FTC speech was simply softening the blow
Why the fuck would she do that tho? How many jury members have said "I will never vote for this person" and then voted for them? A lot.
 
This seems like the kind of thing they could've demonstrated in the context of the show, rather than making Ponderosa confessionals required watching.

Scott and Jason's character was well documented by the show, I would say. Scott and Jason hated Cydney. Scott and Jason associated Aubrey with Cydney. They never would have voted for her. How could the show have demonstrated this unless they outright said it in their jury question? Julia and Cydney were 2 obvious social votes that anyone could have predicted Michelle getting. So really, the only thing making this result incomprehensible for people is the Scott and Jason votes. Because she's won right there. I just don't see how it needs any extra explanation that 2 immature guys that acted like babies who wanted to take their ball and go home whenever someone outplayed them....didn't vote for someone who strategically outplayed them.
 

ameleco

Member
Why does Jason, Scot, Julia say that Aubry played a fear based game? I don't get it. She got rid of threats. Also everyone says Tai didn't he use his idol or advantage. That's because of Joe's evac and because Jason is stupid and didn't vote with him. He should've mentioned that at FTC. Anyways, eff that final vote and Aubry played a better game. Michele only won because she won the right challenges at the end. I suppose you could say she deserves it because of that, but meh.
 

llehuty

Member
I just saw the preview of the next season. Worst theme in Survivor history? I'm now with really low expectations and ready to cringe. Normally is Probst the one shoehorning the theme, but damn... even the cast... not a good look.
 

BowieZ

Banned
latest


I just saw the preview of the next season. Worst theme in Survivor history? I'm now with really low expectations and ready to cringe. Normally is Probst the one shoehorning the theme, but damn... even the cast... not a good look.
Early front-runner for OT thread title... Survivor: Melanesia |OT| Because we refuse to call it Millennials vs. Gen X
 
Everyone seems to be forgetting Aubry and Cyd's conversation before the last immunity challenge: "if Michelle does not win immunity we HAVE to vote her off". Aubrey didn't want to sit next to Michelle in final 3 because she expected jury votes to go to Michelle (and guess what, she was right). Honestly, if Aubrey saw it coming and talked openly about it (and it wasn't edited out) how come so many people in this thread seem flabbergasted? People are complex creatures. Why assume you can read the jury better than Aubrey, who spent 30+ days with them?
 

Grexeno

Member
Everyone seems to be forgetting Aubry and Cyd's conversation before the last immunity challenge: "if Michelle does not win immunity we HAVE to vote her off". Aubrey didn't want to sit next to Michelle in final 3 because she expected jury votes to go to Michelle (and guess what, she was right). Honestly, if Aubrey saw it coming and talked openly about it (and it wasn't edited out) how come so many people in this thread seem flabbergasted? People are complex creatures. Why assume you can read the jury better than Aubrey, who spent 30+ days with them?
Because that's not what the show actually showed.
 

BowieZ

Banned
Everyone seems to be forgetting Aubry and Cyd's conversation before the last immunity challenge: "if Michelle does not win immunity we HAVE to vote her off". Aubrey didn't want to sit next to Michelle in final 3 because she expected jury votes to go to Michelle (and guess what, she was right). Honestly, if Aubrey saw it coming and talked openly about it (and it wasn't edited out) how come so many people in this thread seem flabbergasted? People are complex creatures. Why assume you can read the jury better than Aubrey, who spent 30+ days with them?
It's more like, at the time, Michele was seemingly being painted as Final Tribal doubt for Aubry who put in an otherwise stellar finale, apart from losing the two final challenges of course.

But in a weird twist of fate, Aubry wasn't given the benefit of that doubt... which is what usually happens.

I really just chalk up this whole mess to one thing:

- the producers/editors should have included Juror Confessionals in the finale, which actually cast some doubt on Aubry's "presumptive" winner status and helped show how and why people were seriously considering Michele more than the everyday viewer might have expected. Because, frankly, nobody except hardcore edgic readers (like myself) saw Michele's win coming... and rather than the winner being anti-climactic for someone like me, the winner is baffling for many others...
 

kirblar

Member
Again, if you're feeling upset, that was their intent.

All the suggestions about "doing it better" are funny, because they deliberately threw one of their big editing maxims out the window this season.
 

wachie

Member
Huh?

Aubry was shown as in charge nearly the whole back half of the game. She had Joe do whatever she wanted, and even managed to control Tai at the end.

Michelle was one of Aubry's numbers until the end. At no point was Michelle ever shown to be in charge of anyone so I'm not sure where you get that point.

Sorry to nitpick one point of your entire post, but that specifically stood out to me
No worries :)

If you read my other post I elaborated on why I think Michelle was Aubry without the chaos. She scrambled when she needed to, she won when she needed to, she glided when she needed to. You need to have a very good awareness and read on the game to know when you are and are not on the line.
I am saying the editors were deliberately souring the audience on Michele in the last few episodes and in the finale itself. They deliberately did not give her personal connections to the audience like the other members of the F4 had.
No they were not, maybe you and a few others got soured.
No. This is dead wrong. Causal fans are upset and confused. Look at the comments in Dalton's recap. This is not an accident, the editing was engineered to provoke this reaction.
I'm not sure if that's the right place to look for casual fans. I would think the casual audience would have preferred a Tai win but I guess who knows. This sampling of outrage and outcry is not representative of what you and I think.
Editing is storytelling. They chose to tell this story in a very specific way in order to guide the audience to a very specific conclusion, and the goal was NOT to make them satisfied with the winner.
Again this is ludicrous. Jeff would laugh his ass off on this one.
Case in point. ;)
Everyone seems to be forgetting Aubry and Cyd's conversation before the last immunity challenge: "if Michelle does not win immunity we HAVE to vote her off". Aubrey didn't want to sit next to Michelle in final 3 because she expected jury votes to go to Michelle (and guess what, she was right). Honestly, if Aubrey saw it coming and talked openly about it (and it wasn't edited out) how come so many people in this thread seem flabbergasted? People are complex creatures. Why assume you can read the jury better than Aubrey, who spent 30+ days with them?
Case in point ;)
 

BowieZ

Banned
Again, if you're feeling upset, that was their intent.

All the suggestions about "doing it better" are funny, because they deliberately threw one of their big editing maxims out the window this season.
You keep saying this everywhere, but what makes you so certain that the show deliberately sabotaged itself?

Just to try and encourage more gameplay in the next seasons? Because that's going to make no difference at all. In fact, the massive shock of two super strategists losing in a row is probably just going to jolt people into playing that way much less, if anything.
 

kirblar

Member
*raging firestorm of angry fans upset and confused about the ending in an unprecedented way*

"No no, the editors did everything normally this season!"
You keep saying this everywhere, but what makes you so certain that the show deliberately sabotaged itself?
It didn't sabotage itself. It sabotaged Michele.
 

BowieZ

Banned
*raging firestorm of angry fans upset and confused about the ending in an unprecedented way*

"No no, the editors did everything normally this season!"

It didn't sabotage itself. It sabotaged Michele.
But fans and casuals alike all seem perplexed and dissatisfied.

Not with Michele herself perse, but with her victory over Aubry at large. (I can handle it, as I saw it coming from eons away, but I'm sure many can't.)

How is this dissatisfaction -- which is deliberate according to you -- not sabotaging the idea of making an entertaining satisfying show that will make people want to watch the next one?
 

wachie

Member
But fans and casuals alike all seem perplexed and dissatisfied.

Not with Michele herself perse, but with her victory over Aubry at large. (I can handle it, as I saw it coming from eons away, but I'm sure many can't.)

How is this dissatisfaction -- which is deliberate according to you -- not sabotaging the idea of making an entertaining satisfying show that will make people want to watch the next one?
Didnt you see how Jeff got out of the way when the finale was ending? Man he was so upset he was going ask for his monies back.
 
Nick's makes sense. Huge fan of the game, had the Greg/Rich style scene w/ Aubry, was actually calling Michele an "emotional player" in interviews.

Yeah, Nick's vote makes sense. I was really confused last night when we thought he voted for Michele.

Debbie's FTC comments really make no sense now.
 

Grexeno

Member
People say "I saw Michele winning from a mile away" which is not really the truth. They noticed that she was getting more attention than she seemed to deserve in the early game, and pegged her as an under-the-radar female winner. Fine.

The problem is that the actual content of the show doesn't support her actually beating Aubry in a jury vote.
 

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
I've watched every episode of Survivor since the first one aired.

I thought it was going to be a 5-2 Aubry win, maybe 4-3.

for it to go 5-2 the other way blew my mind.

I thought that whole FTC was setting up Aubry's win, all the comments, when she asked Michelle if she knew, all of that.

I was sitting there mouth agape and kinda angry.

I'm a student and fan of the show, everything heavily implied Aubry won. It was a clear blind-side of the audience.

(PS - I'm biased as I'm a nerdy intellectual type - so players like Aubry, Spencer and Cochran are my jam)
 

wachie

Member
How people expect Jason and Scott to vote for Aubry is beyond me, I mean being a student of the show and all, I could see that without watching any of the ponderosa videos.
 

kirblar

Member
But fans and casuals alike all seem perplexed and dissatisfied.

Not with Michele herself perse, but with her victory over Aubry at large. (I can handle it, as I saw it coming from eons away, but I'm sure many can't.)

How is this dissatisfaction -- which is deliberate according to you -- not sabotaging the idea of making an entertaining satisfying show that will make people want to watch the next one?
Because theyre pretty sure after sixteen years that they will.
 

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
How people expect Jason and Scott to vote for Aubry is beyond me, I mean being a student of the show and all, I could see that without watching any of the ponderosa videos.

I guess we should have seen it coming from Scott considering what a baby he was, but Jason actually seemed like a decent guy who loved the game after Scott left.

I don't think Michelle is undeserving, but Aubry was just much more deserving in my mind, and the Jury speeches/questions were just bizarre in retrospect.
 
How people expect Jason and Scott to vote for Aubry is beyond me, I mean being a student of the show and all, I could see that without watching any of the ponderosa videos.

Well, they praised her during the game (they even had a whole tribal council where they were basically going "Aubry is awesome"). There was nothing within the game to suggest that they hated her, or that they were the kind of guys who would vote for Michele.

Obviously they were really bitter at Aubry, but that didn't come across in the edit at all. They seemed to reserve all their bitterness for Cydney and Tai in the show.
 

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
Because theyre pretty sure after sixteen years that they will.

bad winners never stopped us from continuing to watch before.

And not to say Michelle was a bad winner. But we've seen most of it to this point on Survivor. It was just so weird not to see this one coming

How people expect Jason and Scott to vote for Aubry is beyond me, I mean being a student of the show and all, I could see that without watching any of the ponderosa videos.

I don't know - we've reached a point where in recent years it seemed like people would put aside being pissed off to vote for who was the best. This jury didn't. Maybe it's just all the all-star seasons and fan-filled casts that can get past the personal aspect of it a bit more.

Maybe this is more realistic in the end. That personal feelings should have more weight than they have.

And honestly - had they shown that to us a bit more, it wouldn't have been as big a surprise. It just didn't feel like that watching this season.
 

Grexeno

Member
How people expect Jason and Scott to vote for Aubry is beyond me, I mean being a student of the show and all, I could see that without watching any of the ponderosa videos.
Oh I don't know, maybe the Scot tribal council where they had nothing but profuse praise for Aubry, and Jason never said anything on screen after to contradict that.
 

MSMrRound

Member
So:

Julia and Cydney's votes can be understood. The dude bro trio's can't be. Why did they vote for Michele?

Julia was in it together with Scot and Jason. They had the high school "beauty hangs out with the jock" vibe going on.

Pretty sure they would be fine with anyone as long as it isn't Cydney. That's already 3 votes out of 7.

I like Aubry and the edit she got. Going into final 4 I was pretty much like "I think I should be okay with whoever emerge as sole survivor out of of this four", but yea...she really got robbed. Then again, this is from our perspective as audiences back home. Some nuances of her gameplay might not be that visible to the jury that are still harbouring bitterness towards getting kicked out of the game.

#Joe'sBeefSataysruinedAubry'sgame

and boy, I wonder who pulled off a better FTC performance, Tai or Amanda (from Survivor China).
 

BowieZ

Banned
#Joe'sBeefSataysruinedAubry'sgame
#MountSaintNealSAVEDAubry'sGame

Maybe this is more realistic in the end. That personal feelings should have more weight than they have.

And honestly - had they shown that to us a bit more, it wouldn't have been as big a surprise. It just didn't feel like that watching this season.
I think this is all quite true. Real people get hurt and vote for people they like. That's part of the great social experiment.

It's just a shame when the show portrays a certain experiment outcome as a failure. (At least, if kirblar is to be believed, then it was deliberate.)

People say "I saw Michele winning from a mile away" which is not really the truth. They noticed that she was getting more attention than she seemed to deserve in the early game, and pegged her as an under-the-radar female winner. Fine.

The problem is that the actual content of the show doesn't support her actually beating Aubry in a jury vote.
People predicted Michele would win, before the finale, despite the finale. It's as simple as that. That finale was quite pro-Aubry, which is bizarre, because it didn't complement Michele's UTR winner's edit from the previous 13 episodes. Normally the show would have tanked Aubry at the end to make Michele more satisfying. I don't think you can retroactively say that people predicting Michele didn't actually predict her because her finale edit was not strong enough.
 

kirblar

Member
Ever since Jenna M got booed they've been very, very deliberate about how they handle winners to avoid a repeat. This is why this season is such an anomaly - the edit tells you why Michele won....but it also believes that the jury got this one wrong, with no attempt to sugarcoat that.

Michel was not getting a traditional "winner's edit" like other recent non-Denise winners. It was the winner's edit, but it was not in the style of one. She got a warped traditional runner-up edit, which had just enough content to explain what she was doing throughout the season (hence the weird visibility in spots), but which didn't really give a shit about her and worked to subtly turn the audience on her towards the end.

To use an analogy- every other time they've had a weird/bad winner, they've cushioned the blow. Here, they soaked them in gasoline and lit a match before tossing them to the wolves.
 

Grexeno

Member
People predicted Michele would win, before the finale, despite the finale. It's as simple as that. That finale was quite pro-Aubry, which is bizarre, because it didn't complement Michele's UTR winner's edit from the previous 13 episodes. Normally the show would have tanked Aubry at the end to make Michele more satisfying. I don't think you can retroactively say that people predicting Michele didn't actually predict her because her finale edit was not strong enough.
I said people predicted Michele's win. I'm also saying that those predictions were based on amount of airtime and not the actual content of her airtime.
 

BTM

Member
I guess it was a nice change up from the winner having a super obvious landslide victory like the last couple of years.
 

The Beard

Member
I would've been ok with either Michelle or Aubry winning. Aubry probably deserved it more, but Michelle played a pretty solid game.
 

BunnyBear

Member
Finally back on desktop, so I'll post a comprehensive post while covering most of the grievances in this thread.

Michelle won 4 challenges, including the final challenge AND the challenge where she knocked out the most bitter jury member - Neil. Both the wins plus her pick proved she played the right perfect game of the remaining three. She wasnt actively involved in the ousting and while Cydney and Aubry did most of dirty work with Tai pitching in at fleeting moments. When her head was on the chopping block, she was more active back at camp influencing people as well as she spoke out very well at the TC. She successfully cast doubts on Tai's intent and Aubry flipped. This is besides making a strong bond with Cydney. What people fail to realize is that Cydney took most of the blame for the ousting and Aubry looked like she was her right hand man. Michelle was open to some extent to listening to Scott/Jason which these two miserably failed at.

Aubry won a grand total of 1 challenge, which laughably she tried to sell to the jury when she shouldnt have, it just highlighted that she had barely won something while Michelle had her beat convincingly on that front as well. Aubry was erratic and neurotic, even Cydney knew that which is why she voted Michelle. I also dont get the "misleading edit" that people seem to be whining on, none of the edits that Aubry got portrayed her in much positive light, most of it was "oh, look at poor me, I lost another ally due to medivac, boohoo". As far as I remember, the only good edit Aubry got was she she backstabbed Tai and then apologized to "win" him back. If anything there were too many of Tai's "good edits" where they played up his "all life forms matter", which is understandable since Jeff mentioned that was a big resonating point with the viewers. Compare this to the two immunity wins that Michelle had to win to stay in the game, the vote where Tai's advantage went to waste, the final immunity win and the final advantage win, there was a lot of footage in her favor but I guess people had their minds set on a nerd winning. What were people expecting, a sob story? Oh look at me, I'm so neurotic or had abuse in my life, or pity me for some other reason? Early on when Michelle was with Nick, they showed her intentionally playing dumb. People need to remember that winners on Survivor are not there because its their catharsis, Michelle needed none of that. It wasnt like Spencer playing a second time to prove his social skills or Cochrane playing a second time to prove he had a brain.

I dont even need to talk about why Tai didnt win, that's quite obvious.

Nonsensical post.

I subscribe to the theory that production hated Michele winning and this is as close to a 'fuck this' edit as you will see. Explains why Jeff was down on this season.

I'm not sure if it was very wise however, because it left a lot of people feeling deeply unsatisfied and ripped off. There was very little on-screen justification for why Aubry lost the jury.
 

BunnyBear

Member
Also: Michele was shown. She had 57 total confessionals, the third highest for this season, only beaten by Aubry and Tai. She was only really absent from three episodes - three of the four pre swap episodes. After that she was present in every episode.

For comparison: Natalie White had 15 confessionals during the entire season, was either completely ignored or under the radar in 8 of the 14 episodes

Michele had more confessionals explaining her game than ANYONE in Cambodia.

Pro tip, next time someone controls the game but cries every other episode because of how hard the game is, they're not winning. They're Amanda, Sugar, Stephen, Chase, Lisa. And now Aubry. They're the runner up who plays a large role in shaping the outcome of the game but ultimately loses.

The editors don't like showing the winner crying and talking about how much of a toll the game is taking on their emotions.

Edit: Michele just doesn't give very compelling confessionals. She's very monotone, almost stoner esque. Aubry is a great speaker, and obviously her confessionals about her game had more oomph, while Michele's were more subdued, but Michele was always there talking about her being a strong, independent woman who was playing a strong social game and maneuvering from alliance to alliance.

Much like Danni Boatright tbh

Bollocks, Tyson, Natalie A, and Jeremy all had crying confessionals.
 

ironmang

Member
Why are Jason and Scot getting all the blame? There were 3 other people who voted against Aubry and Julia is the only one that kind of makes sense.
 

BTM

Member
Why are Jason and Scot getting all the blame? There were 3 other people who voted against Aubry and Julia is the only one that kind of makes sense.

Why would there be a need to blame any on the jury? If there's anyone to blame for Aubry not winning it's Aubry. She should've gotten rid of Michelle when Tai wanted to and that ended up biting her in the end.
 

kirblar

Member
Why would there be a need to blame any on the jury? If there's anyone to blame for Aubry not winning it's Aubry. She should've gotten rid of Michelle when Tai wanted to and that ended up biting her in the end.
She didn't know it was possible w/o going to rocks because Tai didn't tell her about the extra vote. If she knows, Michele likely goes home there.
 

ironmang

Member
Why would there be a need to blame any on the jury? If there's anyone to blame for Aubry not winning it's Aubry. She should've gotten rid of Michelle when Tai wanted to and that ended up biting her in the end.

I'm not personally blaming anybody since the winner has to deal with the castmates and potential jury they're given. Just saying everybody seems to pin this on Scot and Jason.
 

wachie

Member
I can't respond to each and every post so I will generally respond.

The praise that Aubry got was nothing more than "I'm not bitter" cover and to come off as to their vote actually being "up in the air". The only thing Jason and Scott liked of Aubry was that she had (by fate) knocked out Cydney. But they knew that these two (Aubry and Cydney) were the reason for their games to be fucked (besides Tai) and hence they voted the way we expect them to. You also get a vibe on how their vote would go when they ignore one contestant entirely, which one of them did.

Nonsensical post.

I subscribe to the theory that production hated Michele winning and this is as close to a 'fuck this' edit as you will see. Explains why Jeff was down on this season.

I'm not sure if it was very wise however, because it left a lot of people feeling deeply unsatisfied and ripped off. There was very little on-screen justification for why Aubry lost the jury.
Nothing is more nonsensical than the conspiracy theorists in the thread that production intentionally botched the show. We know Jeff has his favourites but I don't think he favoured between Michelle or Aubry, and to the point that he would intentionally fuck up the one thing that is his bread and butter. But please carry on, the truth is out there!

Why would there be a need to blame any on the jury? If there's anyone to blame for Aubry not winning it's Aubry. She should've gotten rid of Michelle when Tai wanted to and that ended up biting her in the end.
I have pointed this thing out and got called as a nonsensical post.
 

BTM

Member
I'm not personally blaming anybody since the winner has to deal with the castmates and potential jury they're given. Just saying everybody seems to pin this on Scot and Jason.

Yea sorry, I didn't really mean it towards you in that way. More for the people looking to blame jury members for being bitter or whatnot.

I actually agree with you. Jason/Scot are the easy targets for angry fans since they weren't well liked anyway. Fan favorite Cydney also voted for Michelle and I haven't seen many people talking about it.
 

wachie

Member
Yea sorry, I didn't really mean it towards you in that way. More for the people looking to blame jury members for being bitter or whatnot.

I actually agree with you. Jason/Scot are the easy targets for angry fans since they weren't well liked anyway. Fan favorite Cydney also voted for Michelle and I haven't seen many people talking about it.
Cydney agreed with Aubry on getting Michelle out so both of them knew deep down that she was the bigger threat, it didn't help that Aubry didn't own up more and didn't go that extra distance, maybe should could have gotten Cydney's vote.

Hopefully my last post in here, this season was so marred with medivacs that I don't even consider this as a "full season" but still credit where its due, Michelle won and thats what matters in the end.
 
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