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Survivor 34: Game Changers |OT| We Have To Go Back

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This is the first season I've seen with Cirie.

Seems like she did jacksquat except for one major fuckup.

You should watch Exile Island or Fans vs Favorites if you want to know why she's so respected. This was definitely not her best season, although she did pretty well in getting to Final 6 despite having a target on her back from the very first day.
 

erawsd

Member
*Drew Scanlon Blinking*

I don't think this season was very good and the twists were ridiculous, but worst winner, worst season and worst players? Not even close.

Yeah,I thought the season overall was really sloppy with all the idols and advantages but I def give Sarah credit for playing a great game.
 
You should watch Exile Island or Fans vs Favorites if you want to know why she's so respected. This was definitely not her best season, although she did pretty well in getting to Final 6 despite having a target on her back from the very first day.

I also strongly believe the editors wouldn't want to emphasize Cirie too much because she is eventually going to go out of the game by receiving no votes and only being voted out by default.
 
I also miss the "making fire" segments :(

it was kind of entertaining that well after a dozen runs of the show people still weren't learning how to make a fire before they came to the island. And I also miss the "provider" aspect of social gameplay, it made camp life more dynamic and interesting than the game revolving around a bunch of inanimate mechanics.
 

kirblar

Member
She is easily the most respected player among other players without having actually won. The fact that she had never had a vote against her the entire time is pretty damn insane. She's also played 4 times and I think never been voted out by the actual majority and has basically been screwed(don't necessarily mean unfairly, just that it sucks) over by twists in some way every time.

Looking at the merge cast my only thinking is most of these players must just not have known Cirie's previous games or something.
Due to how s16 ended she's basically considered a virtual winner. She got fucked by a completely inane production call.
 
Jeff confirms the S34 FTC format is a permanent change: http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/26/survivor-jeff-probst-game-changers-finale-2/

This is really good for production because it makes the jury explicitly spell out why they're voting for someone to win, which has been a problem in other seasons.

I love it, I just want Jeff not involved at all. I don't want him to take it from someone saying something and try to rephrase it and hand it back off. If the person on the Jury or the person at FTC can't steer it to/from what they want than he shouldn't get it to that point.

If that makes sense?

I love the conversational type, but don't want Jeff interjecting. He can try to reaffirm and get an answer out of someone who is trying to avoid it or something, but I feel like he tried to completely rephrase someone's point during this FTC and I wasn't into that.
 

kirblar

Member
I love it, I just want Jeff not involved at all. I don't want him to take it from someone saying something and try to rephrase it and hand it back off. If the person on the Jury or the person at FTC can't steer it to/from what they want than he shouldn't get it to that point.

If that makes sense?

I love the conversational type, but don't want Jeff interjecting. He can try to reaffirm and get an answer out of someone who is trying to avoid it or something, but I feel like he tried to completely rephrase someone's point during this FTC and I wasn't into that.
I think you need Jeff in order to let the quieter people get a word in.
 

Parch

Member
I'm glad Culpepper didn't win. Fuck bullies.

Survivor and Big Brother are games that can reward players that are considered floaters. Cirie certainly has the social and manipulative game, but there are times when these type of players are not targeted because they are not considered comp threats. Let them tag along deep into the game because they can be beat in the late comps.

It's nice that these type of players can win, but using physical and puzzle ineptitude as an advantage to avoid elimination seems like an unworthy way to win to me, especially in a game where comps are a big focus. I'm not saying only the comp beasts should win, but an all round physical/puzzle/social/manipulative player seems a lot more worthy than a player who is only capable of one or two of the skills required.
 

J-Rod

Member
Brad came off as having the patience of a saint earlier in the season when he took the constant berating from Debbie in stride. Even if he had been a lot nicer to tai, I think the jury had pretty much already decided on Sarah. Terrible mistake in keeping her over tai.
 

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
I want the Auction Back but I want them to not auction any advantages or shit.

People hoard their money for an advantage and it all breaks down.

Make it a food thing only / reward only. see how people play it, it's still just as interesting.
 
I want the Auction Back but I want them to not auction any advantages or shit.

People hoard their money for an advantage and it all breaks down.

Make it a food thing only / reward only. see how people play it, it's still just as interesting.

Or you can keep the advantage but tie it to the food/reward. Like you get a platter of food, and there is a knife and fork wrapped in a napkin which also has a clue to an idol.
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
Didn't care much for Brad, but I ended up kind of liking Sarah, so I'm glad she won. And what happened to Cirie, man... that was tough. :/
Anyway, an entertaining season with some crazy twists and turns. And the reunions always make me smile and remember how much I love Survivor in the end, looking forward to the next season!
 

goonie

Member
Just because Cirie's vote-steal plan was botched, it was still a GREAT idea and I (like to) think it would have worked flawlessly.
 

Kifimbo

Member
I liked Sarah, and she was my dark horse from the start, so I'm happy with the result. She was one of the few who learned from her previous attempt, changed her strategy and more importantly she never wavered. Even when she had to strike against friends like Zeke and Sierra. The whole story behind 'Steal a vote' advantage is just so...badass. Find the thing, expose Cirie with it, and the use it against the one who should have found it, Michaela.

I understand people saying she isn't likable, she is too cold and calculating, but at the same time I don't see how Sierra or even Andrea were more likable.

Brad also evolved from his first attempt and would have made a good winner, but the old Brad came back in the final few days. Cocky, overconfident, agressive, he screwed himself and choosing Tai instead of Sarah was pure hubris. Especially because Tai can't even articulate himself under pressure. Outside of finding idols and being a good guy, he also had a weak resume. I was surprised when Sarah said she would have voted for Tai instead of Brad as a winner.

As for Troyzan, lol. I'm just glad he realized before the end that he had no chance.
 

kirblar

Member
Survivor Twitter actually tweeted out a link explicitly asking for feedback - https://twitter.com/survivorcbs/status/868904471631241216

Here was my response (leaving out my intro)
I think that you're implementing too many twists/advantages/swaps in the game, and it's causing a backfire effect. When players make a big move, it's usually because they believe it will leave them in an advantageous position going forward. However, if you implement numerous swaps and random advantages that completely throw off the math involved for the players or scramble the entire gameboard repeatedly, what will occur is a backfire. Instead of allowing players to flex their strategic wits and make impactful plays, instead they will play much more conservatively, knowing that there's a good chance that this week's vote won't actually matter in the long run. Being part of a coup and flipping the power structure is much less attractive if there's a high probability that the next week things will be scrambled again and you might just wind up sitting with those people you betrayed on a new tribe.

I believe these factores are also the hidden villain behind a lot of the editing complaints this season. Just like how frequent swaps and advantages make it hard for the players to make any solid deals or choices, those frequent upheavals also make it difficult to get any sort of consistent, continuous narrative storylines in play, since players' positions in the game keep randomizing week to week.

In addition, new "No Revote" rules likely played into making people play more conservatively, because the penalty for not having a unified vote was now absolutely gigantic and caused people to play more conservatively throughout the season.

The thing w/ Cirie sucked, and I hope you're much more careful w/ Idols and such going forward. In 3-tribe seasons w/ 3 idols floating around, having a Legacy advantage seems utterly unnecessary, and I also think that what we saw w/ Sarah/Sierra represents pretty much the extent to which it can be strategically interesting in the game. Unlike w/ the Idols, Extra Vote, and even the vote steal (which sort of sucks- advantages should be advantageous yet fraught w/ hidden peril for the user, not pernicious against others), the Legacy Advantage is completely passive and doesn't require itself to be actively played. This makes it very uninteresting, much like the problematic Exile Island/Cook Islands iteration of the Hidden Immunity Idol.

I also think that the "2 tribes vote out one person" twist was actually a good idea that you completely botched the timing on. This idea would actually be good if it were the first merge tribal in a 3-way merge. One tribe wins immunity, and either sits in the Jury benches or gets to participate in the first combined vote, while the other 2 are both fully vulnerable. This would alleviate the valid complaints that it was random and unfair (just like the fake tribals in Survivor's AU version that resulted in swaps instead of eliminations.)

My final criticism is with the casting. Your fatal mistake here was mixing "Superstar" players like Ozzy, Cirie, Tony, Sandra, etc. w/ "Second Chance" tier players who didn't have that sort of reputation. Just like mixing Newbies and Vets is a bad idea (outside of a structure like S25 w/ medevac returnees), mixing these winners and players who are virtually winners in the minds of other players will lead to a bad season w/ the players w/ massive reputations getting blown up early. If you do something like this again, please make it Champions v Challengers.

To end on a positive, the new FTC structure was good, and I'm glad you've kept it going forward. Having the jury explicitly outlining their voting rationale is good, and should hopefully lead to less audience confusion after Final Tribal Councils in the future.

Although I know I have a lot of criticisms here, I absolutely love the show and just want to see it be the best it can be, and I know you do too. Been watching since S1E3 and was immediately hooked.
 

ShyGuy

Member
Survivor Twitter actually tweeted out a link explicitly asking for feedback - https://twitter.com/survivorcbs/status/868904471631241216

Here was my response (leaving out my intro)

I tend not to post much in the Survivor threads, but I do occasionally post. I check every thread every week and only skip when I see "edit discussion" happening.

Anyway, I thought I would chime in now to agree 100% with your response to CBS.

While I was happy with the Sarah win in the end, I was absolutely devastated at the Cirie boot. I literally yelled at the TV when it happened because I thought had she gotten to the end, she may have won.
 

Dizzan

MINI Member
Brad is a tosser. So condescending to Tai. Glad he didn't win.

I never really liked Sarah but happy for her to win over Brad.

Poor Troy lol.
 

ShyGuy

Member
Troy knowing he had chance and then just simply thanking everyone was all class IMO.

I think the new FTC format allowed him to have that opportunity. I don't recall the last time the finalists had a chance for "closing comments". Normally they have opening statement and then jury questions and that's it.

So it was nice and classy for Troy to simply thank everyone involved in the show.
 
Troy knowing he had chance and then just simply thanking everyone was all class IMO.

I think the new FTC format allowed him to have that opportunity. I don't recall the last time the finalists had a chance for "closing comments". Normally they have opening statement and then jury questions and that's it.

So it was nice and classy for Troy to simply thank everyone involved in the show.

They used to have a closing statement back in the old days. But it could really drag when its opening + jury storm + closing. Arguably they streamlined too much.

I do like that the show changed the formula though, final tribal used to be by far the most predictable moment so putting everyone off balance was interesting.
 

Swig_

Member
Troy knowing he had chance and then just simply thanking everyone was all class IMO.

I think the new FTC format allowed him to have that opportunity. I don't recall the last time the finalists had a chance for "closing comments". Normally they have opening statement and then jury questions and that's it.

So it was nice and classy for Troy to simply thank everyone involved in the show.

I've always liked Troyzan, especially since I feel like he got screwed on his first season, playing with the dumbest cast of people ever on Survivor. I was rooting for him, I just wish he had done something that would have given him a shot at actually winning. He's an awesome, classy guy. In some ways I feel like he deserved to win, because Sarah played both sides and backstabbed a lot of people. It's similar to how Natalie White played/won, but she was at the final with a much more abrasive person and that cast was very bitter about how they lost. If this cast had been more bitter towards Brad and Sarah for playing how they played, I could have seen him winning. But a lot of people respected their gameplay, probably because it was a returning cast.
 

Swig_

Member
Brad is a tosser. So condescending to Tai. Glad he didn't win.

I never really liked Sarah but happy for her to win over Brad.

Poor Troy lol.


Brad is a good guy, I think he was just frustrated with Tai, especially after being out there for 30-whatever days it was when that happened. Tai is probably one of the worst players, as far as the social aspect since he gets paranoid and freaks out at the slightest thing. I don't blame Brad for being frustrated, since you can't rely on Tai and you can't tell him anything, because he will go tell everyone what the plan is. On top of that, he constantly tries to play both sides and is shameless about looking for idols.

I think he (Tai) would have been voted out much earlier, but he's so easy to manipulate, that people want to keep him about as a number.

But Brad is actually a standup guy who lost his cool. People do that once in a while. He was surprisingly brutal towards Tai, though. I feel his apology at the reunion was very sincere.
 
I hope it doesn't come off as offensive, but honestly after Tai's first time on the show, his one weakness was his social game, which is mainly because I'm guessing English isn't his first language. If I was him I would've bought the Rosetta Stone for English, or go out and get a tutor who can teach me the language better. I truly believe his inability to have mastery on the language is the one thing that made him so paranoid and flippant when it came to the social game, and people would take advantage of it to the point they would get him to spin his own words and confuse himself in the process.
 

llehuty

Member
I was dismissing Sarah some weeks ago because I thought she was a big threat and everyone was aware of it, so props to her for managing to get to the end and winning.

As for the general season, I enjoyed it, but they need to tone down the twists. I don't mind adding new stuff here and there, but they need to remove stuff rather than adding everything on top of everything. I'm quite sure they are going to tone it down for the next couple of seasons, since the stupides twists got rid of arguably, THE fan favourites (Cirie and Malcom). I tighter casting could also fix that, though.

Next season concept is the definition of reaching. As always, we will have several people that will feel shohorned into their tribes and have to suffer Jeff name dropping the concept constantly to hide the fact that they just split people into three tribes and call it a day. Still hyped for the all new cast.

Did we even get that "idol hidden at tribal council" thing play out in the season so far? I forgot.
We didn't, no idea why they mentioned, it spoils it for future seasons.
 

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
Crazy that Brad didn't win. That jury was super bitter that they weren't able to take him out. I don't know what he was thinking getting rid of Tai over Sarah though, she was the only one who could build a real case against his.
 

Swig_

Member
I hope it doesn't come off as offensive, but honestly after Tai's first time on the show, his one weakness was his social game, which is mainly because I'm guessing English isn't his first language. If I was him I would've bought the Rosetta Stone for English, or go out and get a tutor who can teach me the language better. I truly believe his inability to have mastery on the language is the one thing that made him so paranoid and flippant when it came to the social game, and people would take advantage of it to the point they would get him to spin his own words and confuse himself in the process.

I can understand that to some degree, but I feel like it's his personality, as well. He just seems emotional and paranoid. He would probably play somewhere better if he spoke the language more fluently and could understand some conversations better, but I still feel like he would play a similar game.

I would be incredibly frustrated if I had to play with him in an alliance, you can't tell him anything and if you do, you better be prepared for everyone to know the plan. I would probably just vote him out as soon as I could, because he's a major liability to have around.

I like him as a person, and I like that he was outspoken about treating animals well in his first season, but he's an awful survivor.
 

timmy

Member
I hope it doesn't come off as offensive, but honestly after Tai's first time on the show, his one weakness was his social game, which is mainly because I'm guessing English isn't his first language. If I was him I would've bought the Rosetta Stone for English, or go out and get a tutor who can teach me the language better. I truly believe his inability to have mastery on the language is the one thing that made him so paranoid and flippant when it came to the social game, and people would take advantage of it to the point they would get him to spin his own words and confuse himself in the process.

It's definitely true that speaking in a foreign language among native speakers puts you at a disadvantage socially, but language acquisition is way harder for most people than you're making it out to be. Tai's level is way beyond anything you'd learn in Rosetta Stone.
 

kirblar

Member
Crazy that Brad didn't win. That jury was super bitter that they weren't able to take him out. I don't know what he was thinking getting rid of Tai over Sarah though, she was the only one who could build a real case against his.
It's a social game, not Ninja Warrior.
 

ShyGuy

Member
I've always liked Troyzan, especially since I feel like he got screwed on his first season, playing with the dumbest cast of people ever on Survivor. I was rooting for him, I just wish he had done something that would have given him a shot at actually winning. He's an awesome, classy guy. In some ways I feel like he deserved to win, because Sarah played both sides and backstabbed a lot of people. It's similar to how Natalie White played/won, but she was at the final with a much more abrasive person and that cast was very bitter about how they lost. If this cast had been more bitter towards Brad and Sarah for playing how they played, I could have seen him winning. But a lot of people respected their gameplay, probably because it was a returning cast.

I don't strictly disagree with you on Troyzan, but what you described is exactly why Michelle beat Aubry for the win in her season. I didn't agree with that win at the time, I felt Aubry should have won. (Same as how I felt Russell should've beaten Natalie)

But anyway, plenty has been said about those wins and they do deserve to win. At the end of the day, generally the winner deserved it. Whether another contestant deserved it more is up for debate.
 
Listening to Aubrey's long RHAP interview just made me think of something: I feel like we got almost no Tree-Mail this season. Somehow didn't even notice.
 
Listening to Aubrey's long RHAP interview just made me think of something: I feel like we got almost no Tree-Mail this season. Somehow didn't even notice.

Whoah, I never realized that either. I'm sure they showed it a couple times, but I can't remember seeing them getting it/reading it etc. a single time. Strange, maybe they just feel like that part doesn't need explaining anymore? Or they had too much other footage they wanted to show?
 
Whoah, I never realized that either. I'm sure they showed it a couple times, but I can't remember seeing them getting it/reading it etc. a single time. Strange, maybe they just feel like that part doesn't need explaining anymore? Or they had too much other footage they wanted to show?

It's just something they've downplayed over the years, like the survivalist aspect of the show. Earlier seasons regularly have lengthy scenes where everyone is trying to parse the meaning of a cryptic tree mail, or practicing using the props that were often included. That kind of thing has been mostly absent for a while.

It's a shame imo, it was funny when someone would be dead certain that an immunity challenge or reward would be something very specific to the point of training/rehearsing for it and when the contestants arrive the guess is completely off the mark, lol.
 
It's just something they've downplayed over the years, like the survivalist aspect of the show. Earlier seasons regularly have lengthy scenes where everyone is trying to parse the meaning of a cryptic tree mail, or practicing using the props that were often included. That kind of thing has been mostly absent for a while.

It's a shame imo, it was funny when someone would be dead certain that an immunity challenge or reward would be something very specific to the point of training/rehearsing for it and when the contestants arrive the guess is completely off the mark, lol.

Yeah I liked those kinds of segments a lot, as well as the focus on the survivalist aspect as you mentioned. The lack of that makes the game seem easier somehow, and less like they have to be doing mundane tasks to survive all the time. To the point that if someone started watching fresh, they might think it's a walk in the park. But maybe the support system in the game has changed to make it easier as well?

It was always cool to see people practicing for immunity challenges, and either being way off base or totally nailing the challenge as a result of the practice. In both cases it was definitely worth including.
 
I've always felt like it was dwindling down, but felt like this was the first time I suddenly didn't remember it at all. Seems like a weird thing to keep doing if they aren't airing it much.
 
CBS announced the premiere date of season 35 is September 27th at 8 PM, a week later than usual and only an hour long as opposed to the now customary 90-120 minute premiere. First time since season 24 this has been the case so they can debut a new show afterward. Hopefully this isn't an omen of a "bad" season.
 

llehuty

Member
CBS announced the premiere date of season 35 is September 27th at 8 PM, a week later than usual and only an hour long as opposed to the now customary 90-120 minute premiere. First time since season 24 this has been the case so they can debut a new show afterward. Hopefully this isn't an omen of a "bad" season.

Hmm, interesting, maybe they want to have a smaller gap between the fall and spring season?
Or leave room for Survivor Australia in the summer!
 
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