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[Shiggy]

Over the weekend, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven led a Swedish delegation to Iran. Lofven was received warmly by the Islamic Republic's political elite — Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei tweeted positively about his meeting with Lofven, adding that Sweden had a “good reputation” in his country — and the two countries agreed upon a number of trade-related deals.

Back home, however, coverage of the Swedish government delegation to Tehran has focused on something else. As Sweden's media noted Monday, a number of female officials who had joined the trip, including Trade Minister Ann Linde, had chosen to wear Islamic headscarves while in Iran.

“By actually complying with the directives of the Islamic Republic, Western women legitimize the compulsory hijab law,” Alinejad wrote on Facebook. “This is a discriminatory law and it's not an internal matter when the Islamic Republic forces all non-Iranian women to wear hijab as well.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...g-headscarves-in-iran/?utm_term=.fc08cef5f8e8

In a statement that has gone viral on Twitter and Facebook, UN Watch, a non-governmental human rights NGO in Geneva, expressed disappointment that Sweden’s self-declared “first feminist government in the world” sacrificed its principles and betrayed the rights of Iranian women as Trade Minister Ann Linde and other female members walked before Iranian President Rouhani on Saturday wearing Hijabs, Chadors, and long coats, in deference to Iran’s oppressive and unjust modesty laws which make the Hijab compulsory — despite Stockholm’s promise to promote “a gender equality perspective” internationally, and to adopt a “feminist foreign policy” in which “equality between women and men is a fundamental aim.”

“European female politicians are hypocrites,” says Alinejad. “They stand with French Muslim women and condemn the burkini ban—because they think compulsion is bad—but when it happens to Iran, they just care about money.”

The scene in Tehran on Saturday was also a sharp contrast to Deputy Prime Minister Isabella Lövin’s feminist stance against U.S. President Donald Trump, in a viral tweet and then in a Guardian op-ed last week, in which she wrote that “the world need strong leadership for women’s rights.”

https://www.unwatch.org/walk-shame-swedens-first-feminist-government-don-hijabs-iran/

I wonder if this would be causing as much turmoil if they hadn't mocked Trump just a few weeks ago.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Yeah...if it's not acceptable to show your hair in certain countries, then you shouldn't accept that. That Iranian government can go to a tolerant, modern country like Sweden instead.

 

[chrislowe]

Yeah...if it's not acceptable to show your hair in certain countries, then you shouldn't accept that. That Iranian government can go to a tolerant, modern country like Sweden instead.

Sweden is not tolerant anymore. It is getting seperate bathtimes for men and woman cause of religion for example.
No wonder its got a "good reputation" from Iran.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...g-headscarves-in-iran/?utm_term=.fc08cef5f8e8






https://www.unwatch.org/walk-shame-swedens-first-feminist-government-don-hijabs-iran/

I wonder if this would be causing as much turmoil if they hadn't mocked Drumpf just a few weeks ago.

I think it is hilarious that the bigots who complain about "you should respect the traditions of the native country" are loosing their shit over this.

 

[WedgeX]

I think it is hilarious that the bigots who complain about "you should respect the traditions of the native country" are loosing their shit over this.

Yep.

 

[ebullientprism]

I think it is hilarious that the bigots who complain about "you should respect the traditions of the native country" are loosing their shit over this.

Pretty much.

Why would you expect them to go to another country and deliberately antagonize them?

 

[SliceSabre]

I've always been under the impression that's just what you do when diplomats visit other countries.

 

[MUnited83]

Diplomacy means you will have to accept some shitty things sometimes to be able to do deals with other countries. This is not hipocrisy, it's the cold truth of diplomacy.

 

[kmax]

I mean, the right wingers cry when immigrants don't adjust to their culture. So why are you crying now?

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Seems like an unfortunately necessary thing when doing diplomacy- don't piss the other party off. Seems like the alt-right make this into a huge deal because they think 'Sweden is a cucked country' or something.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Sweden is not tolerant anymore. It is getting seperate bathtimes for men and woman cause of religion for example.
No wonder its got a "good reputation" from Iran.

Sorry, could you elaborate on this please?

 

[Morat]

Sweden is not tolerant anymore. It is getting seperate bathtimes for men and woman cause of religion for example.
No wonder its got a "good reputation" from Iran.

wat

 

[Metroxed]

When in Rome...

 

[El Topo]

Seems like an unfortunately necessary thing when doing diplomacy- don't piss the other party off. Seems like the alt-right make this into a huge deal because they think 'Sweden is a cucked country' or something.

It's done because this way they can shit on women and feminism.

 

[Nivash]

I think it is hilarious that the bigots who complain about "you should respect the traditions of the native country" are loosing their shit over this.

Same. I trust them to have enough judgement to know whatever signals this might send and have a reason behind it. On a side note, the obsession with what female politicians choose to wear is tiring.

 

[Kinyou]

Nothing wrong with conforming to a countries demands, but considering this is their outspoken policy

despite Stockholm’s promise to promote “a gender equality perspective” internationally, and to adopt a “feminist foreign policy” in which “equality between women and men is a fundamental aim.”

It's really not that great of a look.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

wat

They have seperate times in Tensta and Norsborg to be able to make sure the women can swim.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/glOAa/do-separata-kvinnotider-kan-vara-okej

But to be able to do so you must have a clear goal and intent.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I'm a little surprised that progressive Sweden is rushing to make trade deals with an authoritarian country that has massive human rights problems. But apparently Sweden was Iran's biggest trading partner before the sanctions were put in place. And they really want to sell some buses to Iran.

My reservations with that aside, if you want to visit a country to make trade deals, you show deference to that country's laws and customs.

 

[Dalibor68]

Absolutely disturbing. Reminds me of that incident from last year in Italy where they hid the naked statues. Stop subjugating under these oppressive regimes' outdated customs.

 

[Pancake Mix]

My reservations with that aside, if you want to visit a country to make trade deals, you show deference to that country's laws and customs.

Or you could meet in Sweden and expect the same of them.

'Crickets'

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

They seem to be pushing the boundaries of what Iranian laws allow as well. They're wearing it very loosely. It's not like they deferred completely to the regressive laws. I don't see as much of a big deal being made when various Western government are best buddies with the similarly shitty Saudi Arabia.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

If they had done this while in Sweden, this would be a real story.

Move along.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Moral and cultural relativism is stupid-ass bullshit.

 

[Nivash]

Sorry, could you elaborate on this please?

Long story short: some public baths in Sweden have separate times for women and men, most of them only a day or two a week. Some have had this arrangement since forever, others instated it recently. For the latter group, they typically argue that it's because some women feel uncomfortable being half naked around men or don't feel safe. This particularly applies to Muslim immigrant women, and the baths want to accomodate them, while also giving the option to native women who might share the same opinion.

The Swedish alt-right, however, either claims that it's proof of the breakdown in Swedish secularism, takeovers by Muslims and/or an attempt to cover up that Swedish women are no longer safe from sexual assaults by immigrant men in the baths.

 

[MrChocolate]

Swedish politicians are also hipocrites, who would have thought?

 

[Griss]

You've got two choices, imo:
-Stay home and make a political point against the headscarves, or
-Go to the country and abide by their customs however much you disagree with them.

Either would be acceptable to me.

When you visit a country you've got to play by their rules. It's not the time for political agitation.

 

[Fugu]

I think this is a pretty sticky wicket and I would be extremely hesitant, as an uncompromising feminist, to make any bold statements about this.

I see the argument that this is a poor medium for protest and that probably the only thing that the women involved not acquiescing to their policy would accomplish is a souring of relationships. I also see the argument that this is a stupid, sexist policy that deserves to be protested, and more importantly that the women in the delegation absolutely should not be forced to submit to a sexist policy. Adding extra complication is that it also doesn't make sense to decry these women for choosing to cover themselves (if they did so choose; I don't know) because that means you're saying that they can't wear headscarves even if they want to due to it it presenting the image that they, and the delegate at large, are alright with a fundamentally sexist policy. As has been pointed out by the larger debate on... women's clothing, telling someone they can't wear something because oppresses them is, in itself, oppressive.

I'm inclined to say that the only thing that matters here is how the women involved felt.

 

[Christhor]

I think it is hilarious that the bigots who complain about "you should respect the traditions of the native country" are loosing their shit over this.

I think that's their point? I haven't been looking at Sweden politically for a while, but aren't people making a stink about this because the Swedish government is so accommodating towards everyone, but they still won't be themselves other places?

 

[verbatimo]

On the other hand Amineh Kakabaveh write how Iran delegation would behave in Sweden.

"Mullahs would not accept out laws when visiting. They do not shake hands with women ministers if they are in Sweden."

http://www.expressen.se/debatt/regeringen-ger-fortrycket-legitimitet/

 

[FZZ]

Yeah...if it's not acceptable to show your hair in certain countries, then you shouldn't accept that. That Iranian government can go to a tolerant, modern country like Sweden instead.

Sweden is not tolerant anymore. It is getting seperate bathtimes for men and woman cause of religion for example.
No wonder its got a "good reputation" from Iran.

Back to back trash posts lmao

I think it is hilarious that the bigots who complain about "you should respect the traditions of the native country" are loosing their shit over this.

Yyyyuuup

 

[Real Hero]

I think that's their point? I haven't been looking at Sweden politically for a while, but aren't people making a stink about this because the Swedish government is so accommodating towards everyone, but they still won't be themselves other places?

who does that matter though? Is this really a bid deal?

 

[Pancake Mix]

I think it'd be a lot better if they made a political statement of it and met only in Sweden.

Back to back trash posts lmao

Give it a rest.

Why is it wrong that they chose to wear headscarves?

It's not a real choice... and it certainly isn't for the women living there, it's enforced by a patriarchal society and religious police.

Did they visit a mosque or a country?

Exactly.

 

[Lois_Lane]

Why is it wrong that they chose to wear headscarves?

 

[BlueTsunami]

I mean, the right wingers cry when immigrants don't adjust to their culture. So why are you crying now?

"Gotcha" politics. They expected these women to create a diplomatic incident, but they really wanted a reason to critisize them over their dislike of their homeside politics.

 

[Gutek]

Did they visit a mosque or a country?

 

[sakipon]

If they had done this while in Sweden, this would be a real story.

Move along.

Exactly. The issue with the nude statues was more severe as the Iranian president was visiting Italy. We should not accommodate other cultures like that on our own turf.

 

[MistakenMobius]

who does that matter though? Is this really a bid deal?

Women's right, is that really a big deal?
Maybe we should forbid homosexuality to please them, perfect to please both Iran and Trump.

 

[Morat]

Absolutely disturbing. Reminds me of that incident from last year in Italy where they hid the naked statues. Stop subjugating under these oppressive regimes' outdated customs.

 

[His Majesty]

I'm a little surprised that progressive Sweden is rushing to make trade deals with an authoritarian country that has massive human rights problems. But apparently Sweden was Iran's biggest trading partner before the sanctions were put in place. And they really want to sell some buses to Iran.

My reservations with that aside, if you want to visit a country to make trade deals, you show deference to that country's laws and customs.

You mean like when Iran's ambassador refused to shake hands with Denmark's speaker of parliament?

Respect the laws of the country you visit, certainly, but this isn't exactly an ideologically flattering picture knowing that Iranian law demands they wear a headscarf.

 

[Kthulhu]

You've got two choices, imo:
-Stay home and make a political point against the headscarves, or
-Go to the country and abide by their customs however much you disagree with them.

Either would be acceptable to me.

When you visit a country you've got to play by their rules. It's not the time for political agitation.

Nah, they should stay home. Iran isn't the West's buddy and they can start treating women with respect or they can deal with sanctions.

These countries are run by theocratic governments, not democracies.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

I think that's their point? I haven't been looking at Sweden politically for a while, but aren't people making a stink about this because the Swedish government is so accommodating towards everyone, but they still won't be themselves other places?

No, the point is that people who spout of about "when in rome" regarding Sweden are the same bigots who call this hypocrisy.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

This is awful. They are not tourists.
They are elected representatives.

If Hilary was President should she wear a headscarf?

 

[Christhor]

who does that matter though? Is this really a bid deal?

I guess it would be for some people who seem to be under the impression that their culture is dying in their own country, while their culture not being accepted in country that's "killing their culture". Someone could correct me if there's actually other reasoning that makes more sense, as I said I haven't looked into Sweden or their politics in a good while.

 

[Dalibor68]

No, the point is that people who spout of about "when in rome" regarding Sweden are the same bigots who call this hypocrisy.

Because hiding naked statues is the same as not treating women as equals and requiring them to wear headscares and long clothes? lol

#1 - You assume they respect Western values? The handshake issue and the statue issue would both say no

#2 - Regressive policies and ways of thinking should not be catered to, period. Nobody anywhere in the world should get a free pass.

Formulated it better than I could.

 

[radios shipping overview]

It's telling that this criticism is being aimed at the so-quoted "feminists" in Sweden's government, and not at the idea of Sweden trading with an authoritarian country and the Swedish PM barely making a peep about human rights when he met with Rouhani.

http://www.thelocal.se/20170211/lfven-brings-up-human-rights-in-iran

The PM also said that he had raised the issue of human rights, though he declined to comment on the exact nature of their discussion.

"We raised the issues that are relevant," said Löfven.

 

[Pancake Mix]

#1 - You assume they respect Western values when in the West? The handshake issue and the statue issue would both say no, they don't.

#2 - Regressive policies and ways of thinking should not be catered to, period. Nobody anywhere in the world should get a free pass.

 

[Real Hero]

Women's right, is that really a big deal?
Maybe we should forbid homosexuality to please them, perfect to please both Iran and Trump.

the hell are you talking about? Where does it say women in Sweden now have you wear headscarves?

 

[Palette Swap]

Long story short: some public baths in Sweden have separate times for women and men, most of them only a day or two a week. Some have had this arrangement since forever, others instated it recently. For the latter group, they typically argue that it's because some women feel uncomfortable being half naked around men or don't feel safe. This particularly applies to Muslim immigrant women, and the baths want to accomodate them, while also giving the option to native women who might share the same opinion.

The Swedish alt-right, however, either claims that it's proof of the breakdown in Swedish secularism, takeovers by Muslims and/or an attempt to cover up that Swedish women are no longer safe from sexual assaults by immigrant men in the baths.

I never really get this angle. My wife isn't a Muslim or religious at all, but she feels more comfortable going to the swimming pool alone when there aren't any men to annoy her. There's a good secular case to be made for these.
I'd hate it if we never could go swimming together, but some dedicated times seems like a practical accommodation to me.

I think it is hilarious that the bigots who complain about "you should respect the traditions of the native country" are loosing their shit over this.

Yeah, if you're not comfortable enough with a country's way of life, skip it. Diplomacy is full of compromises, including hard ones.

When in Rome...

To be fair, Capitol statues were covered for an Iranian visit in Rome, which shouldn't have happened IMO. If you're not comfortable with tits and ass, avoid classical sculpture.

 

[Phantast2k]

They're following EU's lead though:

Btw., Saudi Arabia doesn't care apparently:

/lol at this:

 

[VendettaRed07]

The criticism is fair. They aren't Muslim and they are elected diplomats. Sure it was their own choice to smooth over their visit, but it was also a weak move.

Wearing a scarf as a religious practice is one thing. Being intimidated into wearing them is bullshit. They shouldn't have to alter their appearance to appease them.