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[maharg]

Compare Sony to LG, Matsushita, NEC, even Walmart, JC Penney etc this will be a more real comparison.

Ok then, get on it. Lets see some comparisons of debt:equity and current ratios among the major japanese electronics firms. Don't just throw this little teaser out there with a show of GM's asset and debt levels as if it smacks everything down.

GM, Walmart, and JC Penny are not real comparisons, as different industries expect different liquidities. I'd say that MS and Nintendo, being largely software companies even when dealing in hardware, aren't fair comparisons either though.

Sony's financials from Forbes -- see the bottom for ratios
Matsushita
NEC

Sony's current ratio (relatively liquid assets vs. short term debts) is worse than Matushita's and NECs by a noticable amount, while NEC has really high overall debt. Sony has excellent return on equity, though, which basically just says they've funded growth through debt instead of issuing and selling shares.

All this financial malaise and yet the PS2 remains the most popular console this gen by miles. It seems as if some of you revel in this hyperbolic doomsaying. Sony's game division still kicks all kinds of ass -- and that's all that matters.

Not that it's happening here (it's not), but it is possible for a company to be too successful or grow too fast. If you have to go into massive debt to support your growth, you're as likely as not to end up in bankruptcy over it. Again, I doubt that's happening to Sony (if anything, they seem to go the other way -- they go into massive debt in anticipation of distant visions of profit).

 

[SantaC]

I have to admit, financially, Nintendo is unbelievable for a company that does basically nothing but make video games.

And been hated on for the last 4 years or so.

 

[jett]

Sony's total debt stood at 6.71 trillion yen ($61 billion) on June 30.

!! :O :lol Sony should go third party!

 

[TekunoRobby]

I hope most Nintendo Fans aren't this petty or premature.

I'd love to think that but that train of thought is de-facto for all sides of the fence.

It's ridiculous; fanboys from all part of the opposition want the other company to fail. We've been hearing Sega destruction since the days of the Genesis, Nintendo going third party since the N64, Microsoft having a financial failure for the Xbox, and Sony (the same as MS) since the Playstation. ALL fanboys are this pretty and premature. Then you have the PC guys wishing the primary gaming platform, Windows, to fail utterly. They are the only self hating group of guys (I say this jokingly). I know you weren't singling out Nintendo fanatics but I thought it was a good quote to springboard off of and present this viewpoint.

Of course, most of it is in jest, I sincerely doubt no one wishes horrible malaise on an opposing competitor but that's me being optimistic. Unfortunately I've met a few guys who seriously wish for things like that to happen. Hell there's quite a few in my classes and I have to put up with them on a weekly basis. Why do they have to be so loud...

 

[border]

Can anybody who is not a CPA or stock broker please shut up? It's a little tiresome hearing the armchair analysis from people who take one number out of an annual report and uselessly expound on it.

Fanboy Math 2: Electric Boogaloo

 

[sonycowboy]

Can anybody who is not a CPA or stock broker please shut up? It's a little tiresome hearing the armchair analysis from people who take one number out of an annual report and uselessly expound on it.

Fanboy Math 2: Electric Boogaloo

Yep. Truly pathetic. I've spent many, many years going over income statements and balance sheets and I've never seen this much ignorance displayed in my life. And as soon, as it seems like people are starting to get it, you get another retard posting "OMFG!!! $61B! SONY DOOOMED!". Sony's financial situation is perfectly stable. Thier biggest problem is getting more than 1.5% return on sales overall, which is what the whole T60 deal was about and clearly the board and shareholders didn't think it was happening fast enough or disagreed regarding strategically how to get it done.

 

[mashoutposse]

total assests being factories, building and such, etc? not very liquid and able to pay off debt if needed.



Vs. a huge amount of debt. That is like saying I have $100,000 in credit card debt. I have $5500 in the bank. I make $10 per hour but I have a heavily used trailer that I paid $110,000 for. Sorry, but Sony has a "credit" problem and a profit margin problem. Hence, the shake up.

does that make sony doomed? If the PSP does not have better tie ratio than what Japan is showing and the PS3 does not crush the competition like this gen, then Sony may go Kmart.

MS has the money to wait this out.

Wrong.

An accurate analogy would be a situation where you have $100,000 in credit card debt, $5500 in cash, and own $10,000,000 in properties. Suddenly that debt doesn't mean imminent bankruptcy, 'doom,' or anything of the sort...

 

[Crankenstein]

Can anybody who is not a CPA or stock broker please shut up? It's a little tiresome hearing the armchair analysis from people who take one number out of an annual report and uselessly expound on it.

Fanboy Math 2: Electric Boogaloo

Why? Assessing Financial statements is a prerequisite to informed investing for anybody. Some people don't like investing in companies that are too aggressive, i.e. have high debt to liquid assest ratios or have decreasing stock value.

That recent Bloomberg article is quite clear to nonCPA and nonbroker inverstors.

 

[sonycowboy]

Why? Assessing Financial statements is a prerequisite to informed investing for anybody. Some people don't like investing in companies that are too aggressive, i.e. have high debt to liquid assest ratios or have decreasing stock value.

That recent Bloomberg article is quite clear to nonCPA and nonbroker inverstors.

Unfortunately, it's clear from your earlier statement that you don't know how to read them.

 

[Crankenstein]

Wrong.

An accurate analogy would be a situation where you have $100,000 in credit card debt, $5500 in cash, and own $10,000,000 in properties. Suddenly that debt doesn't mean imminent bankruptcy, 'doom,' or anything of the sort...

:lol

 

[Crankenstein]

Unfortunately, it's clear from your earlier statement that you don't know how to read them.

Please explain if you are so informed and Bloomberg and I am so ill informed. Honestly. If I am somehow misreading Sony's quarterly report, then please tell me and the ignorant masses what is the real truth per Sony's financials. Use links that support. Thx.

 

[mashoutposse]

:lol

Trust me, your post was definitely worthy of a similar response :lol In fact...

total assests being factories, building and such, etc? not very liquid and able to pay off debt if needed.



Vs. a huge amount of debt. That is like saying I have $100,000 in credit card debt. I have $5500 in the bank. I make $10 per hour but I have a heavily used trailer that I paid $110,000 for. Sorry, but Sony has a "credit" problem and a profit margin problem. Hence, the shake up.

does that make sony doomed? If the PSP does not have better tie ratio than what Japan is showing and the PS3 does not crush the competition like this gen, then Sony may go Kmart.

MS has the money to wait this out.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[maharg]

Wrong.

An accurate analogy would be a situation where you have $100,000 in credit card debt, $5500 in cash, and own $10,000,000 in properties. Suddenly that debt doesn't mean imminent bankruptcy, 'doom,' or anything of the sort...

Er, no. Unless I'm missing something here, his analogy is by far more correct. Sony does not have $100 worth of assets for every $1 they have in debt. Where he was wrong is in the idea that his analogy meant imminent bankruptcy, not in the numbers. Yours are absurd.

Sony's ability to pay off short term debt is not terribly bad. It's not as good as their competition, but it's good enough. Their ability to pay off long term debt is really not an issue though. If they had to start selling off factories, it'd be pretty obvious at this point that they were that fucked.

 

[sonycowboy]

Please explain if you are so informed and Bloomberg and I am so ill informed. Honestly. If I am somehow misreading Sony's quarterly report, then please tell me and the ignorant masses what is the real truth per Sony's financials. Use links that support. Thx.

It's not a matter of being informed, it's a matter of being able to read a balance statement. Of that $67B dollars,

1) $23B is related to insurance liabilities for thier insurance business,
2) $12B is in accounts payable, which is related to goods or services coming in and cannot be considered a problem for a company that does $71B in sales annually. If they couldn't pay their bills, it would be a problem, but you'd have to do a cash flow analysis to make that case.
3) $5B is related to bank deposits from outside financial services, which is a liability only if their are extraordinary problem with the deposit.
4) $3B is related to employee pensions that are payable over tens of years
4) Their is a good amount of money in short and longer term debt notes ($12.5M) that they've floated to have cash to pay for long term investments such as factories and R&D.

Basically, it seems you don't understand what a liability is. It's not debt in the traditional or common sense. If the company were to stop having revenue and not be able to pay these liabilities it would be a problem, but that's not the case here.

 

[maharg]

I'm really glad you edited that last paragraph

 

[mashoutposse]

Er, no. Unless I'm missing something here, his analogy is by far more correct. Sony does not have $100 worth of assets for every $1 they have in debt. Where he was wrong is in the idea that his analogy meant imminent bankruptcy, not in the numbers. Yours are absurd.

That "something" you're missing is the point of the analogy...

His analogy was broken once he mentioned "credit card debt."

 

[maharg]

Sorry, I guess you broke my nitpick meter. Which is pretty impressive.

 

[Pimpwerx]

WTF does it matter what kind of shape Sony as a whole is in? What matters is the future of SCEI, not Sony Corp. SCEI as a company is solid AFAIK. However, I've always wondered about how they split up infrastructure costs. Those fabs they made for the EE and GS should be paid off already, right? There were questions back then about how they defer those costs, b/c the billions invested didn't show up on the fiscal reports back then...IIRC. Who fronts the money for Cell development and building new fabs? Is that SCEI's own responsibility, or is this cost spread around Sony Corp. as a whole? I always figured that made the biggest difference. If the shit went down, I imagine SCEI could exist independantly on its own and be quite successful. But I didn't know if they would lose significant capital as a result of losing the other divisions as well. PEACE.

 

[DCharlie]

FINASHUL INSTICHUTES AM HIRING!

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

I doubt Sony as a whole would be bought out. More likely the less profitable parts of Sony would be spun off or sold off to cut away the dead weight and facilitate further growth into new and more profitable areas.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

So what are the financial standings of the three?

Microsoft - $40 billion cash reserves

Nintendo - $7.2 billion cash reserves

Sony - $61 billion debt

That was a huge L O L for me! :lol

It's not a matter of being informed, it's a matter of being able to read a balance statement. Of that $67B dollars,

1) $23B is related to insurance liabilities for thier insurance business,
2) $12B is in accounts payable, which is related to goods or services coming in and cannot be considered a problem for a company that does $71B in sales annually. If they couldn't pay their bills, it would be a problem, but you'd have to do a cash flow analysis to make that case.
3) $5B is related to bank deposits from outside financial services, which is a liability only if their are extraordinary problem with the deposit.
4) $3B is related to employee pensions that are payable over tens of years
4) Their is a good amount of money in short and longer term debt notes ($12.5M) that they've floated to have cash to pay for long term investments such as factories and R&D.

Basically, it seems you don't understand what a liability is. It's not debt in the traditional or common sense. If the company were to stop having revenue and not be able to pay these liabilities it would be a problem, but that's not the case here.

THANK YOU!

 

[EclipseGST]

Why did sony introduce UMD?

It doesn't make much sense to repeat mistakes from the past (Beta and MD(somewhat successful but not really)).

*dreams of the cancellation of ps3......

 

[fse]

UMD is a joke anyways :\