entremet
Member
I didn't read it as it should not be produced, only that the wait and see approach doesn't protect it from criticism.
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Ta-Nehisi Coates on HBO's Confederate
- Thread starter unpopularblargh
- Start date
I didn't read it as it should not be produced, only that the wait and see approach doesn't protect it from criticism.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Right, because the concept itself is morally illegitimate.
No, there isn't. There is an article about Hillary Clinton's (possibly inadvertent, he acknowledges) use of a racist narrative about the aftermath of the Civil War and Reconstruction, one that was dominant for a very long time.
But there is no article where he flings around the words "racist" and "racism", there is no article where he says "we" ("we" who?) are racists because we're "retelling history wrong according to him.
Money talks. Im sure there would be some black actors that would do it for the right pay.
Reminds me of that youtuber who paid black guys to smash his car when it had a trump sticker on it in the hood. Making black people look like thugs.
Sad.
lightskintwin
Banned
Not every Black person yet alone Black actor feels the same way about the show.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know about "entirely," but it probably would be different, yes. That's not some sort of failing in the argument, though. Who they are and what they've done does matter, and should be brought to bear on the conversation. None of this is happening in a vaccuum, and any argument that suggests we "pretend" one of the aspects isn't, or that we can swap out people/concepts like it was RAM is being unfair/disingenuous.
Sounds like you completely failed to comprehend one of his articles or were so offended by his writings that you decided to make up your own alt facts to justify shielding yourself from hearing further truth.
Show me an example of this.
Same here. We live in a world where Confederates will be someone else's racist fantasy.
I linked to the example he was talking about. It's nonsense.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That whole post reminded me of when I'd talk about movies in the 90s with people who were threatened by Spike Lee's films.
The way they described the content of his films almost never actually matched what was in the films.
The way they described the content of his films almost never actually matched what was in the films.
I feel the need to call this out in particular, the idea that calling something racist is dangerous just because it might not be.
The example KevinRo is referring to has already been shown to not be so, but even if we take a broader scope to it, I've noticed this rhetoric. That the only time you can call something or someone racist is when the subject in question is extremely overt about it.
If you suggest that anything more subtle or subliminal is racially motivated, like the GoT's innocuous ignorance that motivates their desire to write a show like this, it's immediately dogpiled into "OH HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY PROVE THIS IS RACIST AND IF YOU CAN'T PROVE IT, IT'S DANGEROUS TO SAY IT, THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG". People need to accept that a person can be motivated by racial biases without being personally and willfully racist themselves.
Perhaps there needs to be a different word we can use to designate when something is motivated by culturally racial biases rather than explicit personal racist feelings and thoughts.
However, even if there isn't and Coates is mistaken....why is him saying something is racist when it's not dangerous? What is going to happen to the GoT producers if Coates is allowed to make this false statement? I've yet to see an example in any media where a person is ousted from a job or anything because of potential racism. Usually, racism has to be made explicit before action is taken (if then). But even then, how is that dangerous? It's not like there are any ideas of visiting personal harm on the GoT producers.
And more importantly, even if we concede that it is dangerous, is it MORE dangerous than conforming to the existing racial bias that results in the actual deaths of black people? As far as I can tell, the worst Coates can do is stir up some fan resentment against these two particularly questionable TV show producers.
The worst the TV show producers is contribute to the dehumanization of black people that result them in getting shot by people of authority. Which is more dangerous?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I just saw a tweet from yesterday, by Freddie Wong. RT'd into my timeline this morning. Thought it was a pretty apt statement:
Freddie Wong said:
Welp
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They're probably not
You may be right. I'd say it depends on how much they trust the people in charge of the show.
excelsiorlef
Member
They'd never have released this info if they expected it was going to get the backlash they have been getting.
Now why they didn't expect the backlash is beyond me.
"everyone loves game of thrones and the civil war and the man in the high castle and historical dramas, and time hijinks, we can make it science fiction if we do it in the modern day. We can get a hat-trick with this one."
(outside the room some one says , "what about black people?")
"oh yeah well...we'll include them too."
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
That's a dumb tweet. Boycotting something because the artist was a rapist is a "seperating the art from the artist" argument (not that i'm defending or condeming anyone who boycott's Cosby). These are not analogous situations. There is no hypocrisy here.
daemissary
Member
Judd Apatow is also wrong. People should have the option to watch the Cosby Show if they want to.
If you personally can't separate fiction from the actions Cosby performed in real life, there is a solution for that. Don't watch it. If I can make that distinction and I want to watch the Cosby show, I should be able to.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
He's boycotting it because of Bill Cosby's past actions without actually seeing it
We are boycotting confederate because of the actions of the writers of Game of Thrones as well as the actions of the entire country and Hollywood
Sounds like exactly the same thing to me
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
I did not hear about David Benioff and/or D. B. Weiss raping anyone, my apologies.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Don't be disingenuous.
Perhaps you've heard of David Benioff and D.B. Weiss when it comes to the way rape and slavery are portrayed on GoT?
It's literally in the article this thread is about.
airmangataosenai
Member
An alternate history concept I always found interesting but AFAIK has never been explored is how chattle slavery continuing into the early 21st century would have potentially led to a wide-scale Communist revolution in the South. If the CSA was struggling enough economically directly competing with the USA and the US funded or supported such a rebellion (This is before the red scare by many decades) I could see a black country or autonomous region in mainland North America of some sort being formed.
Rape and slavery is present in the source material for the show they run
While I mostly agree with Coates article, and think Confederate is wholly unnecessary - the one point that doesn't sit well with me is how we have seemingly judged Beniof and Weiss forever from one tv series of examples (pulled from a source)
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
I personally disagree (on record) with the criticism that the show's depiction of rape was exploitative, so that argument doesn't really fly with me. Lest you assume i'm biased, I don't like the show since the divergence of the source material seasons 4 onwards.
You get how someone wanting to boycott something because of artistic liberties made in order to adapt a book series to tv is quite different from someone wanting to boycott something because the creator literally raped several women.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
It doesn't matter if you disagree. We think their use of rape was exploitative, obviously.
I get how it's different, but I also think they are similar enough to call out his hypocrisy.
What you're basically saying is that the actions of this country and Hollywood and these writers are not enough for you personally to discount the premise of the show, just like how someone might say that bill Cosby's actions are not enough for them to discount the Cosby show or whatever.
A lot of people see it differently than you
This country has raped a lot of slaves, and no justice or recompense has ever been given for it
It would be one thing if they stuck to the source material, but it's their additions that makes people skeptical.
daemissary
Member
"It doesn't matter if you disagree, what we think is better than what you think." -Every religious zealot ever.
The cognitive dissonance is real.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I thought Apatow was supposed to be a good dude
Unfortunate
Unfortunate
theignoramus
Member
Game of Thrones the tv show is a pretty extensive body of work.
We're talking dozens upon dozens of hours of television they either wrote or supervised.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Lol? I'm sorry, has this entire thing not been completely subjective?
A lot of you don't give a shit about slavery, but apparently that's okay to just discount black people's feelings.
just make sure you actually fight the zealots instead of just comparing everyone else to them.
"Allies"
How come every single article is so disingenuous when they don't mention the fact that D&D are 2 of the 4 helmers and the other 2 are black? And they they have said repeatedly that they are equals and that D&D were pretty upfront that they used their position with HBO thru GoT to get it to air, but will have no way to lord their position over the two black producers?
Yet they chose to avoid using blackface. I'd let them off the hook if they were bold enough to put some of the white cast in blackface but as the film presents itself, yellowface sorely stands out on rewatches and not just because of its execution.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Wow, you'd almost think the degree of black involvement isn't the main issue people have with the show
Explain it to me then. Do you think the Black producers are going to glorify the slave trade in a series like this?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Nah, I'm good. This is the third thread on this and no one listens to anything most of the black posters have to say
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
There is no timeline where this show will fly.
JeTmAn81
Member
Are you saying people can tell you're black just by reading your posts, or that you tell people you're black and then they start ignoring you?
daemissary
Member
Do you believe individuals should be able to make a decision on if they want to watch this show based on what is best for themselves? Or do you want to take away the individual's right to choose and stop this show from being aired entirely?
I have no issue with the articles criticizing this show, my issues are entirely with the conclusion that it shouldn't be made based on those criticisms. Let the individual choose.
"Head writer of Empire promises no fuckery"
LOL, I am still cracking up a week later
Have you read the article in the OP?
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