He's not getting access to what he wants, which is escalating the situation. The SOP in this situation is to allow him in and send everyone else outside when there is a potential violent situation.
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Teacher suspended for locking violent, screaming child out of classroom
- Thread starter Monster Zero
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The teacher must had a similar fear for her students so she locked out that kid out.
But the protocol say she was wrong and should've not let that kid alone.
It's difficult to think straigh in high stress situation without a reminder.
ReadingRambo
Member
Teacher here, you don't lock a child out of your room unless there is an official lock down called by the administration. It's May, this teacher and student have had a relationship since August. It's more likely that the teacher got fed up with his antics and locked his ass out of the room and cited concern for her other students as the reason. We all have tough kids, but you can't lock a 9 year old out in the hall by themselves. The admin is a button press away.
Yurp.
If they aren't prepared to discipline unruly students, they are pushing an unsafe work environment onto already underpaid teachers.
Get yours, get out.
I am a little confused about why she wouldn't send him to the principle's office though. Seemed like the obvious course of action.
Pretty much. If the kid stayed in class the other kids parents would want her fired
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Realy sad tho. Kid probably got it from their parents fighting.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
What a damn mess. I feel bad for the teacher. What an awful position to be in these days.
I used to teach kids around this age. I think what you say is true to an extent that a male is more easily able to assert control. That being said, I felt like I had to be way more careful. Girls tended to give me more trouble than boys, to be honest.
And yeah, we were told to never lock a student out of the classroom under basically any circumstance.
Teachers have it really tough in spots like this.
It appears that what he wanted was to "Fucking kill her", so yeah, I guess by not letting herself be killed by this kid she was escalating the situation.
Put this teacher in jail
sooperkool
Member
Remember, the law and associated rules are there to protect property first and foremost. Thats why they were more concerned about damage to the school than potential harm to students.
I hate you man. Busted out laughing in class like an idiot.
Shamrock7r
Member
Without knowing details, it's uncertain if the kid causing harm was even a major risk. Some kids have documented symptoms to shout agressive talk or to get abnormally angry, by not result to physicality. Again, it would be based on a BIP. The question is did the teacher follow proper protocol related to the kid's plan? Did she notify the proper people immedietly? Did her actions agitate the child further?
NoLongerALurker
Banned
The teacher doesn't even have to send a student to someone at the school office. I'm sure the classroom has a phone that she could use to get administration. The teacher ultimately didn't handle the situation properly here. But I don't think the teacher should be suspended, unless this isn't the first time this teacher hasn't handle a situation properly.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Now what happens when the child starts making verbal threats like, im going to kill you or ill blow this place up? Isn't there a law about that now in public places would that change how things are handled because what he was yelling is what really stood out to me.
Don't know about regular students, but my GF is an intensive SPED teacher.. and when the kids get violent they have special holds and stuff. They also sometimes lock them in a room by themselves.
ReadingRambo
Member
Very likely based on the disciplinary action taken. It's not like administrators have their hands tied in situations like this, they have some amount of discretion when it comes to meting out discipline. At the very least this teacher doesn't have the best classroom management instincts. I don't want to snap to any judgement because some administrators are just spineless idiots, but where there's smoke....
Violence Jack
Member
I thought SPED teachers have two teachers per classroom just in case of this kind of thing happening. It's stupid to suspend her as you don't know what the hell that kid might have thought of doing to either the teacher or the students.
And did the little shit get suspended as well?
And did the little shit get suspended as well?
ReadingRambo
Member
If you called the cops every time a kid had a tantrum and said something that would get an adult in legal trouble we'd need a lot more cops.
ReadingRambo
Member
They need to stop that immediately. Your gf is risking a lawsuit should something happen to that child.
You have to determine whether or not it's credible. I mean, you can call down to the office for all threats, but administration would probably get sick of you for not using discretion. I've had students make all kinds of threats and most of them are just running their mouths. Only once have I ever got administration involved after a student made a threat against the school.
As a SPED teacher, she always is as it's a touchy subject with very protective and worn out parents. But Restraint and Seclusion are allowed when they're needed. Lot of paperwork to fill out afterwards too.
These kids don't fuck around. I've heard some pretty bad horror stories. She frequently comes home looking like she wrestled a bear, huge cuts, gouges, teeth marks.
n0razi
Member
nothing that wont lead to a lost job in PC america
ReadingRambo
Member
Locking a kid behind a closed door (where they can't get out on their own) is NOT what is meant by seclusion. I don't want to derail the thread anymore, but there is grey area especially in special ed. but were something to happen (if the child hurt themselves while locked behind a door) the law would not be on her side.
ReadingRambo
Member
Call an administrator and remove the child from the class. And you have to perform this while also maintaining control and supervision of your other students. Standing in the doorway with the problem student in the hall while waiting for an administrator does the trick.
They knew but never made an attempt to better accommodate him to prevent this type of incident?
But,
Not saying the kid would've done it but these days can you afford to take a threat like that lightly?
Wow. Teachers have a tough job these days.
Is that Vin Diesel on the right?
I'm sure they're taking all the precautions, and something they don't do very often and try to actively avoid if possible. The woman is a saint, I don't know how she does it. Anyone with any sanity would of quit long ago. Not only does she stick with the job (even though she's paid the same as if she was gen ed), but she still loves the kids no matter how much physical and emotional pain she's had to endure.
This has worked for me, too. You're in the doorway and the student is in the hall.
Me to class: "Everyone get a book out and start reading. If anyone gets up, I swear to God...." lol
I find this a little problematic. Policy in these sorts of cases are designed to remove judgement because judgement can be bad. Rather you always want a failsafe despite the fact that it is bothersome and inefficient. It also seems like such talk could be grounds for instant expulsion so a zero-tolerance policy to threats would quickly eliminate the problem (at least for the school anyway). The parents could complain but they would likely not get public sympathy.
ReadingRambo
Member
It's that sort of thinking that gets 5 year olds suspended for playing cops and robbers on the playground.
Shamrock7r
Member
Then I would suggest you read the posts here because there are logical reasons on how the teacher could have handled the situation incorrectly.
Edit: that sounded too direct. There is a lot of truth to what you say. I would say in this instance, there may have been reason for the teacher to get in trouble. We don't have he proper info to really make that assertion though
Perhaps but that's on the merits of the policy not necessarily the enforcement. It's also true people do sometimes take the letter of things too serious which can also be bad, but by setting it up this way you invert the concern. Rather than "I'm not reporting little Billy because I'm afraid administration will think I'm annoying" you then get "Unless there is pressing and good reason not to report little Billy, I need to report him or I'll get in trouble." In the first case the worst-case scenario is someone gets hurt because you didn't want to annoy someone else, in the second the worst case is Billy doesn't get expelled because it really didn't warrant it and you get a slap on the wrist for policy breach.
maximum360
Member
Now this makes sense.
Ah, somehow shuffle all the rest of the students through the door past the rampaging, tantrum throwing kid into the hall to leave the one trouble making student unsupervised in the classroom instead of unsupervised in the hall and let bureaucracy take it's course.Call special services and an administrator.
My wife works in special services and this is exactly their protocol that they have to follow.
She's had kids that have torn up classrooms and what the teachers are supposed to do is to get the other kids out, call special services and administration, and step aside.
This is a picture she took of the damage done by a 4th grader.
Sounds like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation to me.
It does seem likely the kid was just acting out and that it doesn't necessarily mean he would be violent to the other kids, but imagine if there was a similar scenario with adults. Police would taze, mace, and choke hold the fuck out of that guy and the teacher would be called a hero, whether or not the people in the classroom were in any immediate threat of danger or not. As if unstable children aren't capable of murdering people and if any upset adult is automatically a threat to everyone's life around them.
Weird world we live in.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
The teacher did good here. What was the "proper" protocol?
CyclopsRock
Member
I thought this said "Thatcher" for a second.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
So the Texas school board thought the teacher was overreacting huh? Is this not the same school board that suspended a student for pretending to have a Hobbit ring? Pot, meet kettle?
The teacher's actions were justified.
The teacher's actions were justified.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
being a teacher we are fucked either way, damned if you do, damned if you dont. Only thing I would have suggested would be if she wanted to lock the door OK, then page the office and get an admin down their right away. Or lock the door with the students inside, go outside yourself and try to calm down the student. But hey we are screwed whatever we do
I work with kids identified with special needs, emphasis in emotional disturbance. unfortunately kids will say outrageous things in order to get what they want. But you document that , and write an intervention strategy in order to combat it. You don't get to lock them out of the classroom.
CadetMahoney
Member
pretty much, double standards.
She should of done some wreslting move.
Maybe a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ1GlGoNBEU
So you just send out a student into the hall with the deranged child and hope they make it to the nurse unharmed?
So just magically transport the whole class into the hall and him into the room and somehow make sure he stays there and destroys everything while avoiding locking the door and having him come out and threaten the other students?
The only point I'm curious about that the people who think she made a mistake have brought up is whether or not she informed the administrators while she had him in the hall. If not that was a mistake, though a verbal warning and reminder would seem the most apt punishment.
What a fucking horrible job with zero room for mistakes or common sense it seems.
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