Sho_Nuff82
Member
And if he attacked one of the other students?
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Teacher suspended for locking violent, screaming child out of classroom
- Thread starter Monster Zero
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And if he attacked one of the other students?
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Teacher got what she deserved.
Should've choke slammed the kid through a table instead.
Then signed off by saying "Kill me now motherfucker."
Should've choke slammed the kid through a table instead.
Then signed off by saying "Kill me now motherfucker."
Wafflecakes
Member
No lies told.
Christopher
Member
You act like its so simple - you don't think she tried to do that?
Well, that's why you send other students out of the classroom, so they won't get hurt.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Make them go outside and destroy their Xbox.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Sounds a bit backwards..hope she's got a good lawyer.
It's funny most of the teachers in this thread, and especially those that work with behavior issues or students with emotional disturbance have articulated ways to avoid locking the student out of the room and yet non-teachers in here still say the teacher did the right thing.
Like a few others in here I was a teacher (severe emotional disturbance) and through near daily assaults on staff, threats of violence, destruction of property, and anything else you can think of, we never locked students out of the class. There are policies for dealing with this shit and isolating the kid (in this manner) is not the right way to handle it. Teacher fucked up.
Like a few others in here I was a teacher (severe emotional disturbance) and through near daily assaults on staff, threats of violence, destruction of property, and anything else you can think of, we never locked students out of the class. There are policies for dealing with this shit and isolating the kid (in this manner) is not the right way to handle it. Teacher fucked up.
Femmeworth
Banned
It's a thankless profession. At least that's what the teachers in my family make it seem like too.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm not a teacher or someone who cares for people w/ behavioral problems so I'll keep my opinion to myself, but it's amazing how many people ITT are fine with making the kid out to be the bad guy in a situation that doesn't need to necessarily have bad guys.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
And the sad thing is that all of society will ultimately lose because of it.
I don't think people are saying he's a "bad guy"; modern people don't usually use that term. In the past, this kid would have been labeled a bad kid, and and the teacher would not have been disciplined for punishing him. Now, however, he's just a kid with "behavioral problems." And while what the teacher did may in fact be wrong in light of that, the fact remains that he was causing a serious disruption that needed a resolution. You are correct in that the situation doesn't have bad guys. That's why it's complicated. Large public institutions are set up in a way more akin to a factory than a place of learning, and those that are outside of the "specifications" just don't have anywhere to go.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
She did the right thing. Isn't this in America? Every chance the kid could have had a gun.
Moving 1 kid is a lot easier than moving 30.
You be surprised. Its actually easier to move 30 kids who follow directions than the 1 kid who is escalated to the point he is potentially violent.
Again, teaching staff should be trained in responding to situations like this. Its easier to replace destroyed equipment. But a lawsuit involving injured children can cost a district millions of dollars. Not to mention that the least restricted environment is the general education classroom and you need a valid reason to restrict that environment.
You are funnelling 30 kids avoiding a screaming violent kid through a single door. Sorry, not convinced that is universally the best way to avoid injuries. It will depend on where the aggressor is, what state the other kids are in, many factors.
HeisenbergLannister
Member
A fourth grader...
I feel old saying "this younger generation of kids are out of control", but..
I feel old saying "this younger generation of kids are out of control", but..
Sure, but again as part of your training, you figure out how to move your students if a need occurs.
Edit: what is this about a single door? Most schools have two doors for classrooms.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
Call special services and an administrator.
My wife works in special services and this is exactly their protocol that they have to follow.
She's had kids that have torn up classrooms and what the teachers are supposed to do is to get the other kids out, call special services and administration, and step aside.
This is a picture she took of the damage done by a 4th grader.
Exactly this.
Physically assaulting the student. NO
Leaving the student unsurprised or not contacting people to provide adequate care also is. NO
Your post is spot on, but at the same time I doubt most teachers that are not special ed teachers really know how to deal with these situations.
I've never had a classroom with 2 doors. From Elementary to College.
Wherever you live maybe, no classroom I have ever seen in Australia has 2 doorways.
And again, aggressive kid with sharp object in front of exit. What now?
That is different, now you know that student is for sure a threat to himself and others. Now it is a situation for security and you should use it.
However, that isn't the situation in the OP who is was only verbal.
Right. So the situation does matter. Fuck being a teacher and having to determine when you should evac or stay. I reckon the teacher took immediate action that ensured the safety of all the other kids in the class. Not going to punish them for that., They may have had better options with hindisght, but the one they took was not awful to me.
Yes, it is a teacher job to accurately assess the situation. Yes, that comes from experience, and you will make mistakes (lord knows I made mine while I was student teaching) but your goal is to keep everyone safe, not everyone but that one kid that weirds out.
Seriously, back in the day teachers actually had some power
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Maybe the US school system should think about putting kids with behavioral/mental health problems in classes designed to help kids with behavioral/mental health problems.
Or just beat his ass a few times.
Come on America, you halfway fixed healthcare, maybe you could attempt to halfway fix our terrible school system while you are at it. At least do something besides throw all the responsibility and blame on the teachers.
neogaffer1
Banned
Please tell me you're not serious.
Whiteblade999
Member
The student had behavioral problems and started saying they were going to kill people, how is this even a debate? You kick their ass out and have counselors or the principal sort it out, that's what they are there for.
So you're just going to pretend you know what happened?
Pretty much. I've been teaching part-time for six years now (in France) and this is what we're trained to do. She messed up seriously (anything could have happened to that kid while he was alone (run off, kill himself, harm other people, etc); she's lucky she only got suspended.
Jaffaboy
Member
As a teacher I hope I never run into any problems like this. Even if there's clear protocol to follow, I can't guarantee how I'd actually react if I had a student going insane threatening to kill people. Sounds to me like the teacher did what they could, and the outcome was nobody was physically harmed which is the main thing. However, emotional damage was probably caused if there were kids literally pissing themselves in fear, however the teacher handled it.
There has to be more to it, otherwise this makes no sense.
Maybe something the teacher did beforehand that we have not heard about that propelled or incited the incident? I recall some bully teachers from school that would intentionally turn the class against a misbehaving student. Still at the point that a kid is locked out of the classroom, and is threatening violence, you cannot blame the teacher for that. Unless she was on the other side of the door mocking the kid while this was happening.
There has to be more to this. Otherwise the school is super fucked up to a level that is not logical.
Maybe something the teacher did beforehand that we have not heard about that propelled or incited the incident? I recall some bully teachers from school that would intentionally turn the class against a misbehaving student. Still at the point that a kid is locked out of the classroom, and is threatening violence, you cannot blame the teacher for that. Unless she was on the other side of the door mocking the kid while this was happening.
There has to be more to this. Otherwise the school is super fucked up to a level that is not logical.
Even if he didn't know all the details, you don't lock your student out of the room unsupervised.
She was texting with another teacher, writing "can't get anyone on the phone" implies to me that she tried calling the office but was getting nowhere.
She should have sent another kid to the school office instead of texting her colleagues.
GameGuru59
Banned
My dad was a teacher, and he regularly locked kids out of the class. His point was that the kid wasn't going to stop others from learning (which is why school exists, right?) The teacher is not a babysitter. The policy needs to change.
I'm also in favor of corporal punishment some kids only understand punishment that way.
Lol. Lawyers are ruining this country, I swear. There's a 99.9999% chance that wouldn't have happened.
Wasn't there some kid shouting about murdering people standing between the classroom and the office?
Maybe she was trying to get her colleagues to get someone? Yeah... push another kid out there with the rampaging kid. You know who the rampaging kid is going to go after?
That is crazy talk. A kid is outside threatening to kill everyone, and you send another 4th grade child as a runner to get help? Do you send he or she out there with sharpened pencils and hardback long division math books? Maybe some gold stars to stick to his eyes?
First off all, the kid was inside the classroom, not outside. Second, he's an angry 8-9yr old, he's not really going to kill anyone; you don't need to be a teacher to know that. And finally, yes, if you can't get anyone from the school office on the phone (because they are busy, don't give a damn, or whatever), then you send a student to the school office. After you've done all that then you (and the whole school administration) know you tried your best.
Christopher
Member
She did what she did in he heat of the moment in good faith trying to protect her students - no one cares what you would have done.
Well that's why they receive proper training, in order to avoid doing "what she did in he heat of the moment in good faith".
She's supposed to protect all her students, not just the cool and normal ones.
"no one cares what you would have done."
Well she should if she wants to keep her job, or doesn't want to get sued the next time.
Wouldn't that require a mental health sector that couldn't be described as "arse"?
I was a teacher. Students with severe behavior problems. I never locked a student out of my class. Times have changed. We have learned better ways to deal with students. Corporal punishment is not one of those ways. Neither is locking students out without supervision. You are right that the teacher is not a babysitter, but part of the teacher's job is to ensure the safety of ALL students, even when they are being shitheads.
As a few people have mentioned, the kid probably has a BIP already since they know he has behavior problems, a behavior intervention specialist has probably already determined why the kid acts out and the entire team of education professionals at the school have created a plan for that student when he acts out. Even without a BIP the kid shouldn't be locked out of class unsupervised.
If you are talking about me being a teacher previously, it was because I pursued other opportunities.
I loved the kids (despite the daily craziness of working with emotionally distrubed population and constant threats of violence) but it also left me depressed a lot of the time.
Kids came from broken homes, they were mentally and physically abused, sexually assaulted, addicted to drugs (from birth in some cases), etc. It is a really thankless and demanding job. I felt like I did my job and it was time for me to leave, I made a positive impact on a number of students that many thought had no hope and no future besides being in prison or dead on the street.
I am still in touch with those students that I impacted positively. Part of the reason why I was able to impact those students, I would imagine, is because I followed "best practices" and modern behavioral intervention theory, which involved me teaching my students even when they were violent and destroying the classroom, and not abandoning them by forcing them outside of the classroom unsupervised. Teaching isn't just about academics, especially for students with behavior problems.
Will the kid learn empathy, compassion, understanding, or any other positive thing from being outside the classroom unsupervised?
No but I don't think the other kids want to learn the horror of another kid making good on his threats on the teacher or them.
As far as any of the lit has suggested, this kid was effectively a bomb waiting to go off and all previous protocol established to defuse said bomb had failed and the teacher's hand was forced on the matter.
As far as any of the lit has suggested, this kid was effectively a bomb waiting to go off and all previous protocol established to defuse said bomb had failed and the teacher's hand was forced on the matter.
If the student was compliant enough to go outside the classroom on his own, it wasn't really that bad. I don't see any mention that the student needed to be physically restrained or physically escorted out of the classroom.
Anyway if you read the thread, pretty much all teachers in here agree that was the wrong thing to do. Especially if you see the few teachers in here who specifically work with ED students.
I taught high school, many kids who were bigger than me. Kids who were exceptionally violent. Again, we never locked them out of the classroom, and locking them out would not have solved anything.
Also who do you think would be liable if the student leaves campus, hurts himself, assaults students in the hallway, etc.?
If you cannot reach someone within the school, would you not call the police or someone outside of the school to come in and take care of the situation?
Again something about this story is missing. So without knowing a bit more, I hesitate to really attack anyone involved. It is fun to speculate on this matter, but there is just not enough there for me to really be passionate one way or the other.
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