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Tech Support GAF Thread: No Case Too Big, No Case Too Small

Mudkips

Banned
I have 2 computers, both running Windows Server 2008 R2.
They are on different networks.

I want one computer to be able to see the administrative share of the other computer.
This means computer A accessing \\IP.Of.Computer.B\C$\ from Windows Explorer.

I'm going to be restricting the ports for that traffic to ONLY go between the two computers.
But I also want to encrypt the traffic.

I am trying to use the Connection Security Rules in the Windows Firewall to do this.

Basically, this is a Server-to-server rule type, just for those two IPs.
Computer A is a NAS box, and Computer B is a box that is on a domain (not a domain controller) and grabs files to compress and stick on the box. Computer A is not on the domain.

I can get this to work fine by using the pre-shared key authentication type, but I can't figure out how in the hells to set up certificate based authentication.

I would be perfectly happy generating a self-signed computer certificate on either of the machines and then copying it over to the other machine.

But it looks like I have to do a lot of horse shit like install CA services on the domain and blah blah blah. Computer A (the NAS box) isn't even on the domain, so I don't know if I even can go down that route.

The dialog boxes for choosing a cert for my IPSec rule are all like:

Signing Algorithm:
RSA (default)
ECDSA-P256
ECDSA-P384

Certificate store type:
Root CA (default)
Intermediate CA

CA name [Browse...]

Hitting Browse gives me this:
95mMK.jpg



Is there some simple way to generate a cert on one machine and install it on the other machine? The rules don't seem to want to let me choose a CERT, they want me to choose a CA...
 

miked808

Member
I have 2 computers, both running Windows Server 2008 R2.
They are on different networks.

I want one computer to be able to see the administrative share of the other computer.
This means computer A accessing \\IP.Of.Computer.B\C$\ from Windows Explorer.

I'm going to be restricting the ports for that traffic to ONLY go between the two computers.
But I also want to encrypt the traffic.

I am trying to use the Connection Security Rules in the Windows Firewall to do this.

Basically, this is a Server-to-server rule type, just for those two IPs.
Computer A is a NAS box, and Computer B is a box that is on a domain (not a domain controller) and grabs files to compress and stick on the box. Computer A is not on the domain.

I can get this to work fine by using the pre-shared key authentication type, but I can't figure out how in the hells to set up certificate based authentication.

I would be perfectly happy generating a self-signed computer certificate on either of the machines and then copying it over to the other machine.

But it looks like I have to do a lot of horse shit like install CA services on the domain and blah blah blah. Computer A (the NAS box) isn't even on the domain, so I don't know if I even can go down that route.

The dialog boxes for choosing a cert for my IPSec rule are all like:

Signing Algorithm:
RSA (default)
ECDSA-P256
ECDSA-P384

Certificate store type:
Root CA (default)
Intermediate CA

CA name [Browse...]

Hitting Browse gives me this:
95mMK.jpg



Is there some simple way to generate a cert on one machine and install it on the other machine? The rules don't seem to want to let me choose a CERT, they want me to choose a CA...

I thought only CA's can administer CERT's and each machine would need it's own specific certificate.
 

Mudkips

Banned
I thought only CA's can administer CERT's and each machine would need it's own specific certificate.

Correct.
And I believe the NAS box has its own CA set up (because it has a web access component, so it issues a cert for that).

I think I need to install the cert for that CA into the root trust of the other machine, and then install a computer cert (for that NAS box) on the other machine, or get the NAS box to generate and issue one on the fly.

Idunno
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
Installed Ubuntu 11.10 to see how my PC worked. Took out a GPU that wasn't working anyway as well.

In Ubuntu so far I've had no crashes but the system tells me of a SMART Error, it seems one of my HDDs is dying. Could this be causing the lock ups in Win7? So far in Ubuntu haven't had any issues. I want to know for sure if its RAM or HDD... it MUST Be one of those I am sure

EDIT: Reallocated Sectors is the error basically. A Temp Airflow also popped up there but right now the temp is normal. Seems I have problems with the re-allocation of sectors. Not sure of how bad is this and if its enough to cause the lockups?
 

Ignignort

Member
Installed Ubuntu 11.10 to see how my PC worked. Took out a GPU that wasn't working anyway as well.

In Ubuntu so far I've had no crashes but the system tells me of a SMART Error, it seems one of my HDDs is dying. Could this be causing the lock ups in Win7? So far in Ubuntu haven't had any issues. I want to know for sure if its RAM or HDD... it MUST Be one of those I am sure

Run this even if you don't have a seagate drive it'll still work: http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/support/downloads/seatools

If it's a SMART error it'll be your hard drive.
 

Ignignort

Member
Hard drives have a spare sector which doesn't get used, and it uses these areas when the normal drive starts to fail. So you will want to at least backup anything critical on that hard drive.
It could last for years or it'll start to fail more.
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
Hard drives have a spare sector which doesn't get used, and it uses these areas when the normal drive starts to fail. So you will want to at least backup anything critical on that hard drive.
It could last for years or it'll start to fail more.


Oh yeah definitely backing up ATM. Could this be causing the freezes/lockups in Win7?
 

Emwitus

Member
Please help Gaf. Bought New computer barely a month old.

Installed malwarebytes. Detects Trojan running Scvhost.exe and message keeps on poppping up that MaLB has blocked a suspicous malicious outbound activity. It detects the Trojan but when i restart to complete removal, the same issue pops again. What should i do? PLEASE HELP.
 

Jzero

Member
Please help Gaf. Bought New computer barely a month old.

Installed malwarebytes. Detects Trojan running Scvhost.exe and message keeps on poppping up that MaLB has blocked a suspicous malicious outbound activity. It detects the Trojan but when i restart to complete removal, the same issue pops again. What should i do? PLEASE HELP.
Go into safe mode with networking and run it there. you should also run SuperAntiSpyware alongside malwarebytes because it catches some things that malwarebytes doesn't
 

Swig_

Member
Anyone know if there is a sure-fire way of making a backup of a bluray movie disc?

I bought a bluray burner a few months ago and have been trying to back up a few of my blurays, but I'm getting mixed results. Some work fine, some just start playing the movie (no title menu) and some copy, but won't run.

I've been using DVDFab to rip the BDs and ImgBurn to burn the new copy.

I don't know very much about bluerays or copying discs, so I won't be too savvy with technical details.
 

Jzero

Member
Anyone know if there is a sure-fire way of making a backup of a bluray movie disc?

I bought a bluray burner a few months ago and have been trying to back up a few of my blurays, but I'm getting mixed results. Some work fine, some just start playing the movie (no title menu) and some copy, but won't run.

I've been using DVDFab to rip the BDs and ImgBurn to burn the new copy.

I don't know very much about bluerays or copying discs, so I won't be too savvy with technical details.

I don't know much about burning but i think the slower you burn them the better results you get.

Does anyone know how to re format my hard drive, as I want to clean install my W7 pc.

Yes, just boot from the cd that came with your computer. Then select custom install. Then format the hard drive through the advanced settings. Then choose what drive/partition to install windows in.

Here's a more in depth tutorial
 

Emwitus

Member
Okay. Starting in safe mode didn't work :( Some one help? When i restart is still tells me a file in windows scvhost.exe has a trojan or something of the sort. It keeps saying there is a malicious outbound connection that has been stopped. I think its in a memory file. How do i remove this thing? :(
 

Jzero

Member
Okay. Starting in safe mode didn't work :( Some one help? When i restart is still tells me a file in windows scvhost.exe has a trojan or something of the sort. It keeps saying there is a malicious outbound connection that has been stopped. I think its in a memory file. How do i remove this thing? :(
That's really weird dude. As a last resort you can clean install your Operating System.
 

Swig_

Member
Does anyone know how to re format my hard drive, as I want to clean install my W7 pc.

If you have a bootable copy of windows, you need to enter bios set up so your computer boots from a CD (or USB), and windows setup will start and guide you through the process.

Might want to look up a guide online before doing, so.
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
Process... Backing Up data. Dropbox, USB Drives, etc. Thank you Ubuntu.
As soon as I am done I am gonna nuke my old HDD (Which still works unlike the stupid Seagate 1TB that just died), and install Windows 7 over it. Its a 400GB drive but hey... it works. Gonna move the backups to it, see what else I can savage from the dying HDD, and uninstall it. Hopefully my problems will then go away. At least in Ubuntu I haven't had a crash or anything so I can rule out the RAM.

On a sidenote, I realized my Radeon HD 4870 has stopped working and I never noticed. It doesn't send any output at all. Fans are working, etc, etc... but it doesn't do a thing. I've been running from the Integrated Chipset for god knows how long haha.
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
After battling to hell and forth I fixed my issue by deleting the Recovery Partition, installing Windows 7 entirely on the old HDD and am now backing up my files from what remains of the dying one. Will try to see how much I can get off it, media files don't matter to me except for music.

Seems to be working without a hitch so far...
 
Hey all,

If you think I would get more success creating a new thread about networking at home just say it and I will :).

Ok so here is my problem.

I got a new Modem (that is also a router) from my ISP.
And I still want to use my old router that I already was using for a better connection though the house.

I made a diagram for the current setup in my house:

CH53X.jpg


But I can't seem to get into my own router, the normal ip address: 192.168.0.1 does not work
Now the router works because on my home server I have internet and I can go to websites etc. So I know it works.

So my questions:

- Want to use BOTH routers at the same time, is that possible?
- how do I get intro my own router? (for configuring it etc)
- I need to port forward, do I have to port forward twice because of the 2 routers or....?
- what is the best way to use my own router as a switch?

My own router is a Sitecom WL-309 Gaming router V2
 

wolfmat

Confirmed Asshole
So my questions:

- Want to use BOTH routers at the same time, is that possible?
Yes!
- how do I get intro my own router? (for configuring it etc)
What's the IP address of the new router? It's probably in a different subnet. Like 192.168.1.1.

The routers have to have different IP addresses, and the subnet mask of the new router has to include the old router's subnet.

So if the old router is 192.168.0.1 and the new router is 192.168.1.1, you need a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 on the new router to find the old one through it, and vice versa.

- I need to port forward, do I have to port forward twice because of the 2 routers or....?
Not necessarily. It should ordinarily suffice to only port-forward at the new router.

- what is the best way to use my own router as a switch?

My own router is a Sitecom WL-309 Gaming router V2

According to the manual, the router should automatically function as a switch. Just set the gateway address of the old router to the new router's address.

Also, in the manual, section 4.2, there's a bridge mode mentioned. Use that mode.
 

W Hudson

Member
Have a issue with my HP laptop:

Starting about a month ago, I pressed the power button and nothing happened. Did it a couple more times, still nothing. Then I tried a hard reset (holding power button down for a minute) which worked. Next time I powered the laptop down, same thing. I kept experimenting, and if I would close then open the lid and keep trying the power button it would turn on. After a while of this, I just kept the laptop in sleep mode so I didn't have to worry about it not turning on.

Yesterday, somehow while sleeping my laptop must of turned off. Kept trying to open/close lid and press power, nothing happened. Eventually after continually trying this it powered up. I figured this may be an issue with the power button, so I went to the settings and set the power button to cause the laptop to sleep. When I pressed the button it worked just fine. Now I'm scared to power down the laptop (or even let it sleep) so I just have it running with the lid closed. I can't imagine that this is a good thing but don't know the alternatives. Any thoughts/suggestions as to what the problem could be?
 

JambiBum

Member
I have a weird issue with a pretty new laptop. As far as I can tell it's just a visual issue that is driving me insane. Whenever I have a program minimized, say skype for example, and I bring it back up, sometimes part of it will be blacked out. If I scroll the text will repeat itself as well. Also sometimes my system tray clock will be pasted behind my start icon. Except it will still be functioning normally in it's regular place. I couldn't get the clock issue to show up but the skype thing can be seen in the picture accompanying this post.

here
 
I have a serious problem. My laptop wasn't detecting my router's wireless signal, so I decided to power cycle it. I held the reset button too long though, and now I think I fully reset my router. I can't log into the router config page because the password doesn't work anymore, and I'm fairly certain everything has been wiped. Am I boned? Do I have to redo everything from scratch? And how do I log into the config page again? I tried "administrator" but couldn't get anything.

EDIT: Tried entering no password, and now I'm in the config page, which confirmed my fears. God dammit.
 

derdriu

Member
Tech Gaf can you help?

I need to put in an order of headsets for my office to use with VoIP and listening to music. The office can be kinda noisy, so over the ear is preferred to try and drown out the craziness. So far I've picked these.
Logitech
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:692845;c:36134
Plantronics
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2139418;c:36134

Sennheiser
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2223798;c:36134
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:1436110;c:36134
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:1474659;c:36134

Creative

http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2161984;c:36134
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2314249;c:36134
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:1537721;c:36134


USB connection

http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:1595950;c:36134
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:1128076;c:36134
http://shop.pcexpress.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:3627946;c:36134

They are pretty much the same spec wise but just wanted some input in case after choosing these, I could be a laughing stock in the office :/

Also not all my choices are over the ear.
 

Arucardo

Member
Posted this in the pc build thread but got no answers so I might as well post it here as well.

Finally got something to ask here. Been trying to figure out what's up with my GTX 580 that I bought recently.

Every time I do a cold/hard boot and Windows 7 loads up the GPU crashes and throws up artifacts in the windows welcome screen (like a broken gpu) but after rebooting with the reset button it loads up just fine and works perfectly in games even when overclocked.

I tried using the other 8pin connectors in my PSU but it didn't seem to help (a Cooler Master GX 750 W). Not sure if it's just a driver issue or a psu issue. I did revert to the last non beta driver but that didn't help either. I'll wait for the next driver release if I can't figure this out by then.
 

clav

Member
this is what my GF's Windows 7 laptop looks like right now:

http://www.gregburgh.com/random/sam.jpg

how do I fix this?

fucking windows.

Intel graphics card?

There's a way to change the orientation in the settings in the bottom right hand icon.

Posted this in the pc build thread but got no answers so I might as well post it here as well.

How hot is the card running?

Show me a screenshot of the "Sensors" tab in GPU-Z.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/
 
Hey guys, I know I probably will not get a lot of responses but I'm looking at a new laptop, to install the new Windows 8 beta on, and give my current laptop to either my little sister or brother.

Im looking at the gigabyte 1132N

I'm mostly concerned about performance. Coming from a Turion X2@2.4GHz and Radeon HD 3200 overclocked, I think at base specs I'll be good, and even my old Geforce 8700 is dwarfed by the 520M (I suppose, not sure) but I'm at peace with the fact that I won't get over Medium in many games. Does anyone have any insight as to whether this is a decent enough lappy? Or should I wait for another convertible tablet?

Also, i want it to operate smooth. Since I dont want to spend $400 for a decent 300+GB SSD, are there other options as far as installing a SSD or will I expect to upgrade to 8GB RAM for a decent speed boost for day-to-day operations?

I'm most disappointed that it doesnt have one of those thunderbolt or whatever ports, that now have external graphics cards available, but I think the 520M will tide me over in Skyrim.

CPU Intel® Core™ i5-2467M Processor (1.6GHz-2.3GHz)
Display 11.6'' Capacitive Multi-touch Panel 1366x768 LED backlight
System Memory 2GB/4GB DDRIII, 2 slots (Max 8GB)
Chipset Mobile Intel® HM65 Express Chipset
Video Graphics Intel® HD Graphics 3000
NVIDIA® GeForce® GT520M 1GB Supports NVIDIA Optimus Technology
Storage 320/500/750GB 2.5"9.5mm SATA HDD 5400rpm
Optical Disk Drive Docking Station includes slot-in DVD- Super Multi Dual-Layer Drive
I/O Port USB(3.0)*1, USB(2.0)*1, eSATA/USB Combo*1, HDMI, D-sub, RJ45, Mic-in,
Earphone-out, 4-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS Pro), DC-in Jack, Docking Port
Audio 2 Watt Speaker*4 (Including 2 Woofer speaker), Internal Microphone
Communications LAN: 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet Base-T
Wireless LAN: 802.11 b/g/n Wireless
Bluetooth: Bluetooth V3.0 + HS
WWAN (3.5G): 3.5G Antenna built-in, 3.5G Module supported(Optional)
Webcam 1.3 MegaPixel
Security Kensington Lock, TPM (The functionality depends on the actual device shipped.)
Battery Li-ion 6-cell
Dimensions 290(W) x 220.7(D) x 27.86~40(H) mm
Weight ~1.76Kg (w/ 6-cell battery)
Docking Station I/O Port(Optional) ODD, USB(3.0)*2, USB(2.0)*2, HDMI, D-sub, RJ45, Earphone-out, Mic-in, DC-in Jack
 

Jzero

Member
this is what my GF's Windows 7 laptop looks like right now:

http://www.gregburgh.com/random/sam.jpg

how do I fix this?

fucking windows.
Don't blame it on windows, that's the users fault.

Hey guys, I know I probably will not get a lot of responses but I'm looking at a new laptop, to install the new Windows 8 beta on, and give my current laptop to either my little sister or brother.

Im looking at the gigabyte 1132N

I'm mostly concerned about performance. Coming from a Turion X2@2.4GHz and Radeon HD 3200 overclocked, I think at base specs I'll be good, and even my old Geforce 8700 is dwarfed by the 520M (I suppose, not sure) but I'm at peace with the fact that I won't get over Medium in many games. Does anyone have any insight as to whether this is a decent enough lappy? Or should I wait for another convertible tablet?

Also, i want it to operate smooth. Since I dont want to spend $400 for a decent 300+GB SSD, are there other options as far as installing a SSD or will I expect to upgrade to 8GB RAM for a decent speed boost for day-to-day operations?

I'm most disappointed that it doesnt have one of those thunderbolt or whatever ports, that now have external graphics cards available, but I think the 520M will tide me over in Skyrim.
That should be good enough. Windows 8 doesn't take much to run awesomely smooth.
 

jet1911

Member
Hey guys I think I have a serious problem.

Microsoft Security Essential is detecting a virus (Cycbot.c) and when I delete it and reboot the virus ois still there. I've search a bit on Google and I've found some answers (but mostly website trying to sell their software). This looked like an informative page but I don't know exactly how to delete registry files and things like that... :(

http://www.zimbio.com/Spyware/articles/Sqv5DoXux_a/How+Clean+Up+Backdoor+win32+cycbot+c+Infection

Maybe someone will be able to provide a link to something a bit more clearly explained.
 

Emwitus

Member
That's really weird dude. As a last resort you can clean install your Operating System.

I know its been more than a week or so...But i totally solved my issue and i feel like a BOSS! LOL. Such a headache. It wouldn't go away even after using my factory reset setting on my vaio. Anyway, i installed a prog called "Hitman pro 3". I think i might have had some form of root kit protected by my operating system from deletion. Used every single malware/antiv imaginable and reset to facto like a billion times. Didn't work perfectly tho. Couldn't reboot after rootk was removed but i used the factory reset and i think it replaced the files. Now my bloody expensive vaio is working like brand new!! YAY!!! haha.

EDIT: @JET I had the same problem you had. Solved it like i wrote above. Might not be the best way for you since after the virus was deleted i got the blue screen of death and the computer wouldn't reboot but i had a petition with a backup os that restored the deleted files.
 

Jzero

Member
I know its been more than a week or so...But i totally solved my issue and i feel like a BOSS! LOL. Such a headache. It wouldn't go away even after using my factory reset setting on my vaio. Anyway, i installed a prog called "Hitman pro 3". I think i might have had some form of root kit protected by my operating system from deletion. Used every single malware/antiv imaginable and reset to facto like a billion times. Didn't work perfectly tho. Couldn't reboot after rootk was removed but i used the factory reset and i think it replaced the files. Now my bloody expensive vaio is working like brand new!! YAY!!! haha.

EDIT: @JET I had the same problem you had. Solved it like i wrote above. Might not be the best way for you since after the virus was deleted i got the blue screen of death and the computer wouldn't reboot but i had a petition with a backup os that restored the deleted files.
Cool i guess i have another program to test now.
 

clav

Member
Hey guys I think I have a serious problem.

Microsoft Security Essential is detecting a virus (Cycbot.c) and when I delete it and reboot the virus ois still there. I've search a bit on Google and I've found some answers (but mostly website trying to sell their software). This looked like an informative page but I don't know exactly how to delete registry files and things like that... :(

http://www.zimbio.com/Spyware/articles/Sqv5DoXux_a/How+Clean+Up+Backdoor+win32+cycbot+c+Infection

Maybe someone will be able to provide a link to something a bit more clearly explained.

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/anti-virus/combofix

Download.

Start your computer in Safe Mode (F8 before "Starting Windows" screen and choose "Safe Mode.")

Launch.

Let the program boot you back into normal user mode.


ewr.png


I find this whole thing baffling, but basically the only con is having to press restart after every hard boot. Works flawless after that.

Idle temperature is fine.

Maybe it's the card itself or the power supply.

What power supply do you have installed?
 

NGKrush

Neo Member
I'm sorry if this has been asked before, I've been using the forum search, but couldn't find my answer.

I'm trying to connect my ps3 through a router but keep getting NAT level 3.

-I've forwarded all ports on both my modem and router.
-I've also triggered my ports on my router
-tried enabling/diabling upnp but my ps3 won't recognise it.
-cannot do a direct to modem connection in my house
-tried wired and wireless
-tried multiple routers

the one i have now is the icidu NI-737534. it's a basic 40euro router with wireless and wired connections. only me and my laptop are connected.

what am i doing wrong? it used to work, but suddenly it doesn't.
same goes for steam, i used to play team fortress 2 a lot, but now i get kicked out of games after 20secs to a minute of playing. ps3 games can connect but there is terrible lag and slowdown and random disconnects.
 
Hi GAF, could really use some help here! Built my own PC a while back, was running fine for a few months no problems, but lately its been randomly freezing for no apparent reason. Keyboard and mouse are unresponsive (and if the speakers are on a HORRIBLE screeching sound comes out) and I need to completely restart it.

Now this can happen at almost any time (within minutes of starting up or after hours of use) but it seems to happen less frequently if the computer is doing anything more than running a browser. I find running a game in the background and just alt-tabbing out keeps it from freezing (although it can still freeze while this happens), and I've never had it freeze while actually playing a game at all. However it is a serious problem and I've had maybe 60 freezes over the past month or so, but I've been very busy lately so I haven't been able to look into getting it fixed.

Can anyone give me any ideas on what I can do to stop this? If possible I'd like to exhaust all the software options before I actually have to go in and reopen it up to check hardware, but obviously if that's necessary so be it. I can provide more details if necessary, thanks in advance for any help anybody can give.
 

Arucardo

Member
Idle temperature is fine.

Maybe it's the card itself or the power supply.

What power supply do you have installed?

It's a cooler master gx 750w. Interesting enough today it managed to boot up Win7 on the first try. I have a dual boot for XP too but I've yet to try it with this card, should see if it does this in xp also.
 

rCIZZLE

Member
Seems like I have another problem with my laptop. :(

My laptop is an acer aspire 4820t running windows 7. I reformatted recently and now I've been running into constant problems. It's currently stuck in a reboot loop with a bsod saying "system service exception". I can't even get into safe mode since it has the same problem. These errors never appeared before the first reformat so I figure it has to either be a hardware failure or the system restore partition was different than how it was out of box. I tried the startup repair for windows 7 but they say there's no problems lol. Any suggestions?
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
Every time I try to watch a Youtube video fullscreen it gets pixelated. Well, maybe not exactly pixelated, but all edges are ragged and it looks like a bad scaling problem. It doesn't matter if I choose 720p or 1080p, the effect is the same. My notebook's native resolution is 1366x768 and I'm using Intel Graphics. Sadly, I don't see any option to affect the scaling in the Intel properties panel.
Normal video files have no problem on fullscreen, it's just Youtube. If I download the video files and play them from my HDD, they look ok.
You may call it a stupid problem, but it's driving me nuts.
 

Heppell

Banned
I need to buy new DVD blanks, what type of DVDs should i get, DVD - r or DVD + r?

i assume DVD + r as they will be more compatible to more DVD players?
 
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