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Ted Cruz will debate Bernie Sanders on Obamacare next Tuesday on CNN
- Thread starter whyamihere
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Watch Bernie decisively win over Cruz (i know that's not guaranteed) and then rub in in Trump's face until he agrees to a debate too. You think he's gonna care if his staff tell him he shouldn't?
googleplex
Member
Two shameless Opportunist.
Things YASSS Hillary stans say. You would think they would go hide in a hole by now with how consistently wrong they are. And regarding obamacare, Hillary's own husband called it the craziest thing in the world, giving trump another point of attack while she was running for president lol Can you imagine that? rattling off going against your own party and wife.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Wow this post sure is productive.
Sanders supporters stopped engaging. That's what happened.
You say that, but this will force Ted Cruz and the Republicans to repeating stress they are against Obamacare. They will own this.
BrutishMrFish isn't wrong. Like I said before, if Bernie were as hated as so many people want to pretend he is, he would have been crushed in that poll. People like me turned on him over time because he and his campaign kept fucking up. Plain and simple. In my case, it didn't help that he wasn't a good debater and he kept retreating to his stump speech.
Sometimes it feels like I'm the only ex-supporter who doesn't have some kind of complex about his loss.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I don't usually watch UFC, but this one time I'll make an exception.
cheezcake
Member
I don't know much about the other time but I'm not gonna hold Seattle that strongly against him.
I mean after jumping the barrier, grabbing the mic from him, calling him and all of his supporters racist, asked for a 4 and a half minute silence (which is a really nice tribute I wish happened naturally) which Sanders and the crowd joined in, then after a couple minutes of conversation they decided to shut down the event because it didn't look like the BLM members were willing to give up the microphone. Him just walking off the stage cause BLM showed up isn't an accurate depiction of what happened.
I won't argue that Sanders' platform was insufficient on racial justice, especially early on, but I think you're being disingenuous here. Sanders acknowledged the concerns of those protesters and changed his campaign accordingly. Hillary responded to Black Lives Matter much more flippantly, and didn't budge an inch on policy proposals.
ShockingAlberto
Member
What Democratic party base
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Lmao just about to make a UFC comment as well. Lol @ that poster.
I don't usually watch UFC, but this one time I'll make an exception.
Guys. Seriously. Nobody is ever gonna "own" anything ever again unless it happens like a week before their reelection.
People don't give a shit. Stop reading textbooks and listening to pundits. God is dead. Facts don't matter.
Saying this as if the dems didn't get more votes than the republicans in the last election....
Also great lets re-litigate the primary again, gg guys I'm sure you will come up with something new. Move the fuck on.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Oh man, if this true that's fucking hilarious.
Like this debate.
Because nothing is going to achieved.
BLM is dead.
ACA is dead.
Trump won.
Fuck.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
With the reasoning that the candidate seen to be the opposite of the sitting president usually gets the nomination (for instance, Trump was the antithesis of Obama: he's a loud, crude, anti-intellectual white guy who followed an intelligent, educated, oratorically gifted black guy) I would say that Trump will almost certainly face off against a woman in 2020 because he is most well-defined by his misogyny and unwavering embrace of traditional masculinity. The women's march is an early sign of things to come, I think.
With that in mind, Kristen Gillibrand has positioned herself nicely by uniformly opposing Trump's cabinet so far. Kamala Harris also has a good deal of star power, and Tammy Duckworth would be tricky for Trump to effectively attack which is really his only strength as far as debating goes. I suspect one of those three will run and get the nomination. Michelle would win in a landslide but she seems to have no genuine interest in running. I'd love for Trump to be one-termed by another Obama though.
He made just one mistake with the New York values and he was done. That's the point he lost New York, and the nomination.
excelsiorlef
Member
BLM is dead?
So they picked two currently irrelevant politicians at the fringe of their respective parties, just to ensure that they get a shouting match and not an actual debate? Great.
Looks like entertainment-politics are going to be a thing for a while in the US, with all the damage that goes with it.
Looks like entertainment-politics are going to be a thing for a while in the US, with all the damage that goes with it.
ShockingAlberto
Member
No, Clinton got more votes. And lost. Democrats as a whole underperformed her, and underperformed in general.
The democratic party base is disparate and fluid, now more than ever. There is no "base." That is the mistake Clinton made - she counted on Obama's votes, when people were specifically voting against eight years of Obama.
Sanders wouldn't be pulling from the base, he would be pulling from the left. That's increasingly not the Democratic base. Same result, Trump re-election, but it's pretty important to accurately label why.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
I don't usually watch UFC, but this one time I'll make an exception.
Anyone else feel like Cruz's nose resembles that of a opossum?
When done by relevant politicians, or people with something to say, sure.
Problem is, I'm seeing Bernie and Cruz on that boxing promotion, who don't qualify in either category.
And to top it off, their topic is a law the current administration has vowed to completely dismantle.
samoscratch
Member
I don't understand why, focus your energy elsewhere.
He helped write the ACA, but the "step further" he was looking to take was single payer healthcare, which is what Canada and the UK have. In other words, he wanted to replace the system which mandates people to buy private insurance with socialized healthcare... which isn't a bad idea considering it is considerably cheaper and has always maintained a private option, but it's a completely different system from the ACA. One is private, the other is public
I think you're reading way too much into this. This is just a TV show. It probably won't even be too highly rated.
Sanders is going to make a full throated defense of government run healthcare (in a broad sense, not just the ACA), and Cruz is going to going to make a public defense for the likely repeal of the ACA by Trump. They'll please both of their bases, and then everyone will go about their business the next day.
No, I'd say he's a pretty strong debater.
https://youtu.be/fPY_Iw9wvPQ
But this is probably going to be less about zingers and more about each side stating their piece.
Well... someone has to get out there after the massive shit stain Clinton left. The DNC is in shambles after great efforts of Clinton, Emanuel, and DWS. There is no one visible and the majority have tuck tail and ran already.
This thread alone is enough to show liberals and the purity test will be the death of the party once again, because he doesn't agree with ACA fully, but at the same time still voted and supported it. But of course, having no one do shit is better I guess. It would be better if they had some the newer Senators or other members, and start making a candidate visible. But you need to start somewhere and at the very least, the states they need to protect the most now are the rustbelt ones, where Sanders did pretty well in since a lot of positions are up for reelection there. And if the losses with Clinton is any expectation... it's going to be a bloodbath.
The fuck with this revisionist history?
Bernie didn't have a racial justice platform on his site until AFTER and BECAUSE of BLM storming his stage twice. And his platform was as cut and paste as it can get.
You can't point to that ONE incident and say Hillary responded flippantly when she actually had a racial justice platform that existed in her policy papers and that she actually campaigned on.
EDIT: I mean the proof is in the pudding. One of these candidates got the vast majority of black support. Unless...you want to argue that black people didn't know what's best for them,
Ummm..how about no.
This post is both offensive to Democrats in government and on the ground. If you think Bernie Sanders is the only one doing anything, then you're admitting that you don't pay attention to politics until you see the name "Bernie."
Bernie's debating Ted Cruz on a cable news network. I mean, it's not nothing...but you're crazy if you think this counts as "Only Bernie's fighting the fight."
neurosisxeno
Member
I think people are framing this wrong. While both candidates are discontent with the ACA, I think they are on clear opposite ends of the spectrum. Sanders complains about the ACA because he wants it to be a stepping stone to UHC. By contrast Ted Cruz complains about it because he considers it a government overreach and apparently hates corporate handouts when Democrats implement them. Bernie is likely going to spend the entire time talking about how disastrous repealing the ACA will be and Cruz is going to dance around the negatives and paint Sanders as an extremist and evoke the boogeyman of socialized medicine.
I expect Sanders to come out of this a bit better because Cruz won't be able to trap someone as stubborn as Sanders, who is he master of staying on message--no matter how one dimensional that message is.
I expect Sanders to come out of this a bit better because Cruz won't be able to trap someone as stubborn as Sanders, who is he master of staying on message--no matter how one dimensional that message is.
It's a bad move for sure.
But he's out there on more than this.
Hillary, well she showed up at the inauguration. Her efforts to support the party have been weak.
old manatee
Banned
The Struggle of the Also-Rans. This is like the NFL running a random Cowboys V Raiders game in April.
UltimaPooh
Member
He doesn't.
Just a few posters here who don't know that making better is different than hating on the ACA.
Barrylocke
Member
I like a lot of things about Bernie and voted for him in the primaries...but this really needs to be said. I wish people would at least bring up him losing the Black vote (aka a huge part of the Southern USA voting block) in the same breath that they talk about DNC meddling shenanigans.
As for the debate, I never knew about Ted Cruz's apparent debate skills. This seems like a circus side-show to the 3 ring that we've had in our faces recently, but I guess it's good to know that at least the CNN producers still have $$$ on their mind.
I agree he relied too much on his accomplishments and not enough on actually campaigning. His whole campaign was mired by him somehow thinking people had spent an hour reading about his accomplishments. Voters don't do that, people have jobs, kids, and shit to handle.
Especially running against a well know person like Sec. Clinton you're gonna have to remind people of what you've done, and who you are. Otherwise you're just the old guy from Vermont.
I think Bernie's sometimes overhyped but absolutely real disconnect with minority communities had a lot to do with bad campaigning. It was huge opening against Clinton and he not only didn't take it, but he made it even worse in some ways.
Royalan being disingenuous with regards to Bernie Sanders? Why, I never.
legacyzero
Banned
Yep. And soooo many heads turned away at that very moment for some odd reason. And when I brought it up, it was always met with the wildest contortions to side step it.
I swear, Mental Gymnastics should be an Olympic sport.
Disingenuous was the prinary theme of this election.
Resident_UA
Member
Waste of everyone's time...
Veritigo_X
Member
I don't think this is a good idea. I like Bernie and his ideas but I don't think they come across as well in a debate environment, while Cruz spent his time at Princeton debating for fun. It would probably be more worthwhile to do this in a town hall setting, but I get that it wouldn't draw as many viewers.
Edit: Bleh, of course this turns into another 2016 primary thread. Reminder that we have a fascist running the white house with an advisor hell bent on destroying our current way of life, but let's talk more about 2016.
Edit: Bleh, of course this turns into another 2016 primary thread. Reminder that we have a fascist running the white house with an advisor hell bent on destroying our current way of life, but let's talk more about 2016.
Jeevesmeister
Banned
Young PoC overwhelmingly supported Sanders.
#BernieMadeMeWhite: http://www.npr.org/2016/03/28/47216...e-sanders-isnt-just-winning-with-white-people
The Myth of a Monolithic ”Black Vote": http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/clinton-sanders-and-the-myth-of-a-monolithic-black-vote
Huge Split Between Older and Younger Blacks in the Democratic Primary: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...der-younger-blacks-democratic-primary-n580996
One candidate actually listened, the other talked down and told black people to run for something, or had them forcibly removed from their events. There's nothing to revise there. As far as the ACA is concerned, it was a blank check to fucking vultures that provided no guarantee of access to care, instead a guarantee that private health insurance companies would do everything they could to put you in debt for the rest of your life, even if it meant dying within the next year: http://theweek.com/articles/666799/how-american-health-care-kills-people
It was a disastrous policy and after Obamacare premiums went up 20% just before the election, it absolutely sunk Clinton's chances. Single-payer is the only solution.
Jeffolation
Banned
Hard pass.
legacyzero
Banned
Yes, let's learn some goddamn lessons and be ready for war in 2018 and 2020 so we can repair all this damage.
-Democrats need to come together on an actual perfect candidate to lead against Trump
-GET THE FUCK OUT AND VOTE.
-Have ACTUAL debate and conversation instead of shutting down, insulting, and demonizing adversaries to your opinion.
-GET THE FUCK OUT AND VOTE
-Get active in spreading the word on valuable voting information locally. ESPECIALLY in 2018. We need a balanced Congress. Don't just let the crotchety old "civic duty" voters have all the fun.
-GET THE FUCK OUT AND VOTE
Stuff like this.
Lack of concern for the issues. You may not like Bernie- but Cruz is a fucking slimy bastard that needs to be put into place.
Bernie has been active in all the movements happening in the last 12 days.
Where's Hillary?
If we keep meeting the issues with apathy, we will lose again.
Hopefully it'll help some anti obamacare people atleast soften up their stances.
I bet he'll only run if he can't get someone else to run on his platform. I can see him standing back if Warren runs for example.
I bet he'll only run if he can't get someone else to run on his platform. I can see him standing back if Warren runs for example.
legacyzero
Banned
ThatsBait.gif
And it's also a straw man. If you blatantly ignore Bernies long history for fighting for civil rights, ESPECIALLY Black civil rights (Which was highlighted REGULARLY and ignored apparently), while Hillary has a questionable history with her comments, "Goldwater girl!", Super predators coming to heel, crime bill, and utter disrespect to BLM, like the poster above highlighted. You might try and call somebody racist for suggesting Bernie is the better candidate for civil rights support. But who's the ACTUAL ignorant one?
Wouldn't say it's beneath him, so much. But I would agree that his opponent is strange. I wanna see Bernie go at Paul Ryan. That makes more sense.
Jeffolation
Banned
If Hillary was out there speaking publicly you'd be yelling at the top of your lungs that she blew the election, is responsible for the worst loss in presidential history and that she should go back to the rock she was hiding under. Fucking please.
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