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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED

F

Fitts

Member
Re: plasma -- completely anecdotal, but I do home theater installations for a living. I still own plasmas. All my coworkers still own plasmas or regret selling theirs to "upgrade."

I stare at high end televisions every day. If my current 65" went kaput and I couldn't source parts, I would probably go with an A1E... just not before seeing if I could find a used plasma worth biting on. And I can often get half off or more on new tvs.

I love having a calibrated picture that trades blows with anything currently out there while not being crippled by motion blur. I love having 11-13ms of input lag without having to deviate from said calibrated picture. And my plasmas get no retention as they've now been enjoyed for thousands of hours. (hours on end of fighting games with crazy vivid static life bars produce nothing)

There's some cool shit out there. There just isn't anything that feels as well rounded as plasma did in its latter stages.
 
P

pswii60

Member
Fitts said:
Re: plasma -- completely anecdotal, but I do home theater installations for a living. I still own plasmas. All my coworkers still own plasmas or regret selling theirs to "upgrade."

I stare at high end televisions every day. If my current 65" went kaput and I couldn't source parts, I would probably go with an A1E... just not before seeing if I could find a used plasma worth biting on. And I can often get half off or more on new tvs.

I love having a calibrated picture that trades blows with anything currently out there while not being crippled by motion blur. I love having 11-13ms of input lag without having to deviate from said calibrated picture. And my plasmas get no retention as they've now been enjoyed for thousands of hours. (hours on end of fighting games with crazy vivid static life bars produce nothing)

There's some cool shit out there. There just isn't anything that feels as well rounded as plasma did in its latter stages.
Click to expand...
I've still got my (calibrated) Panasonic VT65, relegated to the spare room since upgrading (currently to OLED C6). Honestly, I loved it back in the day but it looks like a washed out mess in comparison to the C6 now. Blacks look greyish in comparison and the motion is marred with noise (dither) and dynamic false contouring - stuff I got used to back then but now sticks out like a sore thumb since I upgraded. The bezel-less picture on the OLED is stunning in comparison and UHD and HDR take it even further again, way beyond the image the VT65 can put out. I couldn't go back to plasma now, and I used to be a massive plasma fan.

The C6 is the first TV that I've had where I never feel the need to constantly fiddle with the settings, nor do I feel any desire to upgrade again any time soon. It still blows me away with its picture on an almost daily basis.
 
B

BumRush

Member
What's the best alternative to the Disney WOW Blu-Ray for calibrating (not looking to spend more than $20-ish)? I can't find one for sale for cheap.
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Member
DOT DASH DOT said:
Is It? Where is 4000nit HDR coming from? OLED?
Click to expand...
I mean

Even on an LCD panel (which is already a very 'mature' technology) we don't even get to 2.000 nits yet. OLED is still in its infancy and we're getting 800 nits (plus infinite contrast, which makes A WORLD of difference for HDR content).
 
D

DOT DASH DOT

Member
Insane Metal said:
I mean

Even on an LCD panel (which is already a very 'mature' technology) we don't even get to 2.000 nits yet. OLED is still in its infancy and we're getting 800 nits (plus infinite contrast, which makes A WORLD of difference for HDR content).
Click to expand...

We are pretty well at 2000nits in the 3rd gen of HDR sets, you've only got to look at the incremental steps OLED has made in the same time period.

Then look at Dolby Pulsar, an LCD developed in 2013 that does 4000nits. LCD is the only viable tech to do it. High end LCD is going nowhere.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Insane Metal said:
I mean

Even on an LCD panel (which is already a very 'mature' technology) we don't even get to 2.000 nits yet. OLED is still in its infancy and we're getting 800 nits (plus infinite contrast, which makes A WORLD of difference for HDR content).
Click to expand...

Up until recently, LCD manufacturers haven't had any reason to push nits on LCD TVs so I wouldn't call it mature just yet.

Sony had a 4000 nit prototype at CES 2016. LCD will reach that level of brightness long before OLED will.
 
B

BumRush

Member
DOT DASH DOT said:
We are pretty well at 2000nits in the 3rd gen of HDR sets, you've only got to look at the incremental steps OLED has made in the same time period.

Then look at Dolby Pulsar, an LCD developed in 2013 that does 4000nits. LCD is the only viable tech to do it. High end LCD is going nowhere.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you but it is curious that Sony didn't give the Z9D a 2017 refresh. There could be a ton of reasons for that but it's an interesting thing to watch at CES in early 2018.
 
T

Toki767

Member
Don't people already get semi-blinded watching 1500 nits in the dark?

I can't imagine how anyone would be able to stand 4000 nits.
 
E

ElNino

Member
Toki767 said:
Don't people already get semi-blinded watching 1500 nits in the dark?

I can't imagine how anyone would be able to stand 4000 nits.
Click to expand...
I can't even stand my B7 at full OLED lighting. Even with HDR content, I still drop the lighting and contrast to more reasonable levels.
 
B

BumRush

Member
Toki767 said:
Don't people already get semi-blinded watching 1500 nits in the dark?

I can't imagine how anyone would be able to stand 4000 nits.
Click to expand...

I gave an answer to a similar post you made above. Higher nit numbers don't mean the entire screen is at 4,000 nits. It is used to make HDR pop more.

edit: there was a post a few pages back that linked to a great article on the subject. Maybe someone has it...
 
T

Toki767

Member
BumRush said:
I gave an answer to a similar post you made above. Higher nit numbers don't mean the entire screen is at 4,000 nits. It is used to make HDR pop more.

edit: there was a post a few pages back that linked to a great article on the subject. Maybe someone has it...
Click to expand...

I get that the entire screen wouldn't be at 4000 nits.

But I feel like it would still be like shining an ultra bright flashlight in the dark. Or even in the daytime if only one section of a screen might be the full 4000 nits.
 
vpance

vpance

Member
BumRush said:
I don't disagree with you but it is curious that Sony didn't give the Z9D a 2017 refresh. There could be a ton of reasons for that but it's an interesting thing to watch at CES in early 2018.
Click to expand...

They probably didn't feel the need to when the set is still a top performer. Sony deserves kudos for maintaining 2 flagships that cater to both ends of the spectrum of HT enthusiasts.

Hisense needs to up their distribution game, I guess. They have some crazy spec'd FALDs that would make the Z9D blink. Samsung needs to get off the drugs and release a real follow up flagship.
 
Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
pswii60 said:
I've still got my (calibrated) Panasonic VT65, relegated to the spare room since upgrading (currently to OLED C6). Honestly, I loved it back in the day but it looks like a washed out mess in comparison to the C6 now. Blacks look greyish in comparison and the motion is marred with noise (dither) and dynamic false contouring - stuff I got used to back then but now sticks out like a sore thumb since I upgraded. The bezel-less picture on the OLED is stunning in comparison and UHD and HDR take it even further again, way beyond the image the VT65 can put out. I couldn't go back to plasma now, and I used to be a massive plasma fan.
Click to expand...
Yup I agree. I used to have a VT60 and the ZT60 thankfully improves upon the bolded issues. The blacks were noticeably deeper than the VT. There is also less stuttering/flickering in game mode since it uses a different panel drive on the ZT. In the future I'd like to make a thread about motion resolution across different displays because i don't really want to drag on this topic since this is a mostly oled/led information/suggestion thread. Lots of interesting plasma motion replies recently.
 
J

JG5253

Member
Kyoufu said:
Up until recently, LCD manufacturers haven't had any reason to push nits on LCD TVs so I wouldn't call it mature just yet.

Sony had a 4000 nit prototype at CES 2016. LCD will reach that level of brightness long before OLED will.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you could say the same about FALD technology right?
 
J

jellies_two

Member
Anyone with SACD and a player (e.g. PS3 or Oppo or whatever) can test if it works to the LG OLED TV direct? because I can't get it working. SACD plays fine over HDMI to an older pioneer TV but to the LG OLED I get tons of hiss and softer music than the CD layer.
 
A

aaaaa0

Member
Kyoufu said:
Well you're not going to find a 4K TV with 1080 lines of motion resolution I don't think. Honestly I doubt you'll be bothered by the downgrade for longer than a day at most. I'm sure you'd get used to it, no?
Click to expand...

Maybe, I'm coming around to the idea.
 
L

Lord of Castamere

Member
I want to buy a new tv/monitor when I upgrade to PS Pro. I've had mine for 4 years, and it's starting to go out. I don't have the space for a 4k tv right now., as they only seem to be on the large side. I have a 45'' and I want to go lower. Like 30-35''. Would it be better to buy a monitor or a sub 40'' TV?

I was thinking something like https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009769&Tpk=N82E16824009769 but I'm not sure if that's overkill for the console. Would the Pro make use of 1440p? I really don't know. any advice would be helpful. Trying to keep the budget around 400$.
 
F

Fitts

Member
pswii60 said:
I've still got my (calibrated) Panasonic VT65, relegated to the spare room since upgrading (currently to OLED C6). Honestly, I loved it back in the day but it looks like a washed out mess in comparison to the C6 now. Blacks look greyish in comparison and the motion is marred with noise (dither) and dynamic false contouring - stuff I got used to back then but now sticks out like a sore thumb since I upgraded.
Click to expand...

Either your calibration is suspect or you're just not a fan of a natural looking picture. It shouldn't look "washed out" with apparent "false contouring" unless the source material is trash or something is set up improperly. And unless you're watching in a completely darkened room not having absolute blacks should be imperceptible. (I personally can't stand watching in a completely dark room unless it's a projector -- drys out my eyes in minutes) Any dithering from Panasonic's driving methodology shouldn't be noticeable from the viewing position. Pioneer produced the "noisiest" looking plasmas to my eyes and even they were fine from a few feet away. (I've owned a 101FD and a 6020)

Edit: and I'm not defensive about the ZT/VT6X because I don't think it's the best all around television Panasonic produced that year.
 
D

Dosia

Member
After reading all of the burn in posts on avsforum I think I will hold off until CES to see what LG has to offer for the 2018 models. People are reporting burn in just from watching the news for a few hours a day. That is pretty crazy. Plus people posting about GOT looking like shit in some scenes here when my vt25 looks good makes it sound like LG needs to sharpen the pencil a bit.
 
D

demosthenes

Member
Fitts said:
Re: plasma -- completely anecdotal, but I do home theater installations for a living. I still own plasmas. All my coworkers still own plasmas or regret selling theirs to "upgrade."

I stare at high end televisions every day. If my current 65" went kaput and I couldn't source parts, I would probably go with an A1E... just not before seeing if I could find a used plasma worth biting on. And I can often get half off or more on new tvs.

I love having a calibrated picture that trades blows with anything currently out there while not being crippled by motion blur. I love having 11-13ms of input lag without having to deviate from said calibrated picture. And my plasmas get no retention as they've now been enjoyed for thousands of hours. (hours on end of fighting games with crazy vivid static life bars produce nothing)

There's some cool shit out there. There just isn't anything that feels as well rounded as plasma did in its latter stages.
Click to expand...

From my own personal experience, I've really enjoyed my Panny VT50. But I haven't enjoyed the fact that the black levels have been shit since probably 2011.

I also get IR, but it's never bothered me as I know it's temporary. The black levels piss me off though. Freaking Panasonic.

edit: See my next post on clarification on model / dates.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Hmm, not looking good:

cSWAhN5.png
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/BigJohnnyArcher/status/893433658417328128
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
demosthenes said:
From my own personal experience, I've really enjoyed my Panny VT50. But I haven't enjoyed the fact that the black levels have been shit since probably 2011.

I also get IR, but it's never bothered me as I know it's temporary. The black levels piss me off though. Freaking Panasonic.
Click to expand...

The VT50 was 2012, right? Rising black levels were fixed with the 2011 line. That's why I sought one out. Blacks are pretty good still on mine.

DOT DASH DOT said:
Is It? Where is 4000nit HDR coming from? OLED?
Click to expand...

I don't think the race for higher nits is going to save LCD in that high-end market. Certainly not for people who do their critical viewing in dim rooms or darkness. I guess we will see, eh?

Wishmaster92 said:
Yup I agree. I used to have a VT60 and the ZT60 thankfully improves upon the bolded issues. The blacks were noticeably deeper than the VT. There is also less stuttering/flickering in game mode since it uses a different panel drive on the ZT. In the future I'd like to make a thread about motion resolution across different displays because i don't really want to drag on this topic since this is a mostly oled/led information/suggestion thread. Lots of interesting plasma motion replies recently.
Click to expand...

Man I'd love to pick up a ZT60 or a Samsung F8500 even to see what the fuss is about and compare them to my old 500M. At some point I'll find one on Craigslist for a reasonable price. Seems like owners really hang on to these.
 
D

demosthenes

Member
ApharmdX said:
The VT50 was 2012, right? Rising black levels were fixed with the 2011 line. That's why I sought one out. Blacks are pretty good still on mine.



I don't think the race for higher nits is going to save LCD in that high-end market. Certainly not for people who do their critical viewing in dim rooms or darkness. I guess we will see, eh?



Man I'd love to pick up a ZT60 or a Samsung F8500 even to see what the fuss is about and compare them to my old 500M. At some point I'll find one on Craigslist for a reasonable price. Seems like owners really hang on to these.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I threw out a model # that I thought was mine and the year.

I got my TV in 2009? 2010 at the absolute latest. Point is my blacks have been not very black for a very long time. I notice it a lot. I'm looking forward to upgrading.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
BumRush said:
Haha yes, except none of the Disney films are in 4K HDR...
Click to expand...

Not true anymore.

cfe.gif


pswii60 said:
I've still got my (calibrated) Panasonic VT65, relegated to the spare room since upgrading (currently to OLED C6). Honestly, I loved it back in the day but it looks like a washed out mess in comparison to the C6 now. Blacks look greyish in comparison and the motion is marred with noise (dither) and dynamic false contouring - stuff I got used to back then but now sticks out like a sore thumb since I upgraded. The bezel-less picture on the OLED is stunning in comparison and UHD and HDR take it even further again, way beyond the image the VT65 can put out. I couldn't go back to plasma now, and I used to be a massive plasma fan.

The C6 is the first TV that I've had where I never feel the need to constantly fiddle with the settings, nor do I feel any desire to upgrade again any time soon. It still blows me away with its picture on an almost daily basis.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way each time I turn on my plasma. I adjust to it after a few minutes for games, but I could never use it for most video viewing anymore. It doesn't help either that many of the Panasonics experienced a raising of the black levels, and I'm entirely sure the luminance level of mine is about fifty percent more, if not twice as much as it used to be when I got it in 2009. It's apparently some kind of automatic "safety" feature to extend the life of the panel that you can get around by resetting the internal clock with an external device. But after having already replaced it as my main set, I didn't feel the need to bother with that route. But regardless, after getting used to the blacks of the OLED, I'm not sure the plasma could have even competed when it was new.

BumRush said:
What's the best alternative to the Disney WOW Blu-Ray for calibrating (not looking to spend more than $20-ish)? I can't find one for sale for cheap.
Click to expand...

Spears & Munsil 2nd edition Blu-ray is probably the cheapest you're going to get new anyway at $30. You can get it used for less. Not sure it's quite as user friendly as WOW, but it's just as, if not more comprehensive. Neither are useful though if you're wanting to calibrate for HDR. The consumer level discs aren't ready yet AFAIK.
 
B

BumRush

Member
Sanctuary said:
Spears & Munsil 2nd edition Blu-ray is probably the cheapest you're going to get new anyway at $30. You can get it used for less. Not sure it's quite as user friendly as WOW, but it's just as, if not more comprehensive. Neither are useful though if you're wanting to calibrate for HDR. The consumer level discs aren't ready yet AFAIK.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much!
 
B

BradleyLove

Member
BradleyLove said:
Just checked out my Sony A1 oled's screen uniformity on grey, and its shockingly bad. That being said, how important is it really?

I've not noticed any uniformity issues when playing content.
Click to expand...

An update on this:

I used 5% and 50% grey slides this morning, and uniformity is pretty great in all honesty.

I'm now wondering my original post might have been a quirk, as what happened was I turned the TV picture off while an HDR game was paused. That's what presented an awful grey screen. I'm thinking that was a glitch as earlier, admittedly not with HDR content, turning the picture off resulted in a pure black screen.
 
I

III-V

Member
BumRush said:
What's the best alternative to the Disney WOW Blu-Ray for calibrating (not looking to spend more than $20-ish)? I can't find one for sale for cheap.
Click to expand...

Sanctuary said:
Spears & Munsil 2nd edition Blu-ray is probably the cheapest you're going to get new anyway at $30. You can get it used for less. Not sure it's quite as user friendly as WOW, but it's just as, if not more comprehensive. Neither are useful though if you're wanting to calibrate for HDR. The consumer level discs aren't ready yet AFAIK.
Click to expand...

BumRush said:
Thank you very much!
Click to expand...


You can always use the AVS709 disc - it is free and very useful - everything required for a full calibration. It also has some instructional videos. Link is in the OP, OP.

Also, the first commercial HDR-10 calibration disc is coming out for purchase within the next two months. I already own the digital files, but these will be available on a UHD disc.

http://diversifiedvideosolutions.com
 
L

Lima

Member
GinoFelino said:
Isn't that what they're already doing though?
Click to expand...

They are building a new factory which allows them to build more sizes and cut them more effectively from the mother glass. They are not changing the underlying manufacturing process. Every OLED released by LG had uniformity problems to varying degrees.
 
G

GinoFelino

Member
Lima said:
They are building a new factory which allows them to build more sizes and cut them more effectively from the mother glass. They are not changing the underlying manufacturing process. Every OLED released by LG had uniformity problems to varying degrees.
Click to expand...
The 2017 models are notably better than the 2014 ones in that regard though, right?
 
A

aravuus

Member
INSIDE seemed to look fine on my OLED after a quick test, thankfully. Very slight grey uniformity issues on the right from what I could tell, but I really had to look for it to notice it.
 
P

PeterVenkman

Member
aravuus said:
INSIDE seemed to look fine on my OLED after a quick test, thankfully. Very slight grey uniformity issues on the right from what I could tell, but I really had to look for it to notice it.
Click to expand...

Oh god the flashbacks. Inside was the game that made me notice a huge uniformity issue on my B6 that I wound up getting replaced.
 
M

MosquitoSmasher

Member
Lima said:
Most of the game features lots of grey and near black content.

I think the only thing worse to watch on an Oled is Arrival on UHD.
Click to expand...

I still don't get it though. I played Inside on my previous OLED, the EC9300 and it looked fine to me. With OLED's amazing black levels you'd think it would benefit from Inside. What was I supposed to be seeing?

PeterVenkman said:
Oh god the flashbacks. Inside was the game that made me notice a huge uniformity issue on my B6 that I wound up getting replaced.
Click to expand...

I never really know much about these issues and what it means. What exactly does issues with uniformity mean?
 
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