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[RedlineRonin]

Those if you with LG oled any reason why you don't just use the built in apps? These apps seem to be built for the tv. I don't have any issues running Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, it vudu through webos.

Super nitpicky, but when I get my Atmos system installed shortly, I'd like a box to be able to stream Atmos from to get lossless quality versus the lossy version that comes back through ARC

Most TVs live in living rooms and people don't live in dark caves or have cinema conditions at home.

I guess so. I work 8-5 so I never really watch TV in a super brightly lit room. I'm sure that's not everyone though, to your point.

 

[Kyoufu]

HDTV Test shootout

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...nates-latest-public-tv-shootout/#559a90b15b3e

ISF shootout

http://www.avsforum.com/ce-week-2017-annual-tv-shootout-results-lg-e7-oled-wins/

What am I missing about how the Z9D "outperforms" every other TV?

Vincent Teoh who organised the HDTVTest shootout didn't agree with that either. If we leave the ZD9 out for a minute and consider that a professional calibrator/reviewer considers the XE94 to be the best HDR TV of 2017, a TV which isn't even as good of a performer as the ZD9 then hmm, makes you think.

I mean, I own an OLED myself but it's just outclassed by an 1800 nit TV, especially in gaming where full field brightness matters a lot more.

 

[ToD_]

Vincent Teoh who organised the HDTVTest shootout didn't agree with that either. If we leave the ZD9 out for a minute and consider that a professional calibrator/reviewer considers the XE94 to be the best HDR TV of 2017, a TV which isn't even as good of a performer as the ZD9 then hmm, makes you think.

I mean, I own an OLED myself but it's just outclassed by an 1800 nit TV, especially in gaming where full field brightness matters a lot more.

I am pretty sure the ISF shootout was done exclusively by professional calibrators.

I agree that nits are one of the more important factors when it comes to HDR content, of course. I guess some people, including professionals, also weigh in other factors, such as contrast.

 

[Theonik]

You're right but that would be incredibly stupid standard to compare high-end TVs on.
You did say "most common usecases" so in that way you're right though as that would be bright, sunny, living room with lot of noise as you mention.
But I do believe high-end products should be valued and compared in conditions that's more proper for them. I pity the soul that's going to spend that much on TV only to have it's qualities squashed by having non-optimal conditions for it.

Technically correct is the best kind of correct.

I guess so. I work 8-5 so I never really watch TV in a super brightly lit room. I'm sure that's not everyone though, to your point.

That's one thing, I also specifically only included the A1E but to that point it boils down to several factors.

Shootouts like these are not really meant to be scientific and are just meant to be a bit of fun, hell they don't even address brand biases in them by trying to conceal which set is which. But it doesn't matter.

 

[Ashhong]

Super nitpicky, but when I get my Atmos system installed shortly, I'd like a box to be able to stream Atmos from to get lossless quality versus the lossy version that comes back through ARC



I guess so. I work 8-5 so I never really watch TV in a super brightly lit room. I'm sure that's not everyone though, to your point.

I dont get this, can't you get Atmos out of the built in apps?

 

[Kyoufu]

For the record I really, really like OLED but I just wish it could be as bright as the LCD TVs for HDR. I'm also upset that LG fucked over the HDR Game mode on the 2016 models.

 

[III-V]

If I can squeeze a 46-49" TV into the space, are my options the same?

Looking at reviews of this year's X800E vs X800D it seems like this year's model isn't really an improvement...

Thats true, it was not really improved. There are a few 49"s out there, but the market doesn't really open up until you hit 55" and then you have the best quality as well.

its just much larger than a 43".

 

[RedlineRonin]

I dont get this, can't you get Atmos out of the built in apps?

Yup. Lossy. Not lossless. ARC only supports lossy Atmos until 2.1.

 

[RedlineRonin]

Technically correct is the best kind of correct.


That's one thing, I also specifically only included the A1E but to that point it boils down to several factors.

Shootouts like these are not really meant to be scientific and are just meant to be a bit of fun, hell they don't even address brand biases in them by trying to conceal which set is which. But it doesn't matter.

The brand biases is a good call. Hadn’t thought about that.

 

[DangerMouse]

I have an Android TV box setup with a universal remote hooked up, so the only reason I wouldn't use the built in app is because of convenience. However, the built in apps work great and I do use Netflix from time to time if it's more convenient. Voice search is nice to have

Yeah, Amazon video is the main time I use my Android TV's app.

 

[Alo81]

Is this the same for the C6 as well? I'm having a HELL of a time finding the "best" update file for the C6 and I'm realizing now that 4.31.20 might not actually be the right version number for the OLED65C6p.

If your using the 4.31.20, that is before the dimming issue. Same one my B6 is still on.

So the original firmware that brought HDR Game Mode then. Looks like they improved some stuff in .10, but sounds like that was when the dimming was also introduced?

 

[Smokey]

Is the 05.30.03 firmware still available on 2016 OLEDs? For kicks I went to "Check for Updates', and it said none was available (on 04.31.20).

 

[Alo81]

Is the 05.30.03 firmware still available on 2016 OLEDs? For kicks I went to "Check for Updates', and it said none was available (on 04.31.20).

My TV still constantly prompts me to update there (OLED C6)

 

[Sikamikanico]

So saw this today: LG 43UJ635V Smart TV - Argos - £449.

Seems to be the newer model of this: LG 43UJ630V 43 but for some reason people are saying the newer version only has a 50hz refresh rate? Can't be right surely?

I can't think of any modern screen that can't do 60hz as standard nowadays.

Anywho, primary use will be PC Monitor/Xbox One X gaming - worth a shout for that price?

Might stretch and go for this one if I can

 

[Jimnymebob]

I just realised last night that the HDR settings for my MU6400 (the UK version of the MU7000) hadn't saved when I set the TV up, so everything is on default in HDR.

Am I good to just copy the settings that I have for non HDR content?

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

For the record I really, really like OLED but I just wish it could be as bright as the LCD TVs for HDR. I'm also upset that LG fucked over the HDR Game mode on the 2016 models.

2017 models are safe from it, right?

 

[Kudo]

2017 models are safe from it, right?

From what I've read, yes.
Some people think they want people with 2016 models to upgrade to 2017 with this update, but who knows.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

2017 models are safe from it, right?

Not at all. Read over at Avs forums.

 

[Endorphineforeverybody]

Not at all. Read over at Avs forums.

Link pls

Edit: Ugh, checking there is all about a yellow tint.

 

[Alo81]

From what I've read, yes.
Some people think they want people with 2016 models to upgrade to 2017 with this update, but who knows.

The idea that anyone would buy a $2500+ TV, get a broke ass update, then decide "I'm gonna spend $2500+ more dollars on next years model of the same TV" is so fuckin bonkers that I refuse to believe even LG would go that route and its just a pure misunderstanding on the value these TV's hold to the owners.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Link pls

Edit: Ugh, checking there is all about a yellow tint.

www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-tech...lg-c7-b7-owners-thread-no-price-talk-154.html

Also, my own personal experience.

Friend has tv on latest firmware. HDR game looks shit. Mine looks fantastic.


On 03.60.09 and up, HDR game mode is horrible. Many in this very thread have also said the same

 

[Marmelade]

Vincent Teoh who organised the HDTVTest shootout didn't agree with that either. If we leave the ZD9 out for a minute and consider that a professional calibrator/reviewer considers the XE94 to be the best HDR TV of 2017, a TV which isn't even as good of a performer as the ZD9 then hmm, makes you think.

I mean, I own an OLED myself but it's just outclassed by an 1800 nit TV, especially in gaming where full field brightness matters a lot more.

Vincent Teoh only thinks the ZD9 has the upper hand in HDR (in most cases anyway)
And peak brightness, while extremely important, isn't all there is to HDR (the HDTV test/ ISFshootouts can attest to that).
For everything else even he would go OLED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps-JIttlB8c&feature=youtu.be&t=1078

 

[ToD_]

I can't say how HDR Game on the 2017 models compares to the 2016 models, but it is certainly dim on the 2017 models. At the moment I don't think there is a way around it. There are basically three options when playing HDR games on a 2017 LG OLED:

• Cinema (User) - Accurate colors and bright. High input latency.
• HDR Game - Low input latency, but is dim and less accurate.
• Selecting PC input and using HDR Standard - Low latency and is bright. I haven't experienced it yet, but apparently there is more pronounced banding in color gradients. I suspect the reason why I haven't picked up on this yet is because I only have a regular PS4, and this issue may not be present when processing 1080p. I could be wrong there. In addition, Dynamic Contrast does not work in this mode (which on Low is the active HDR feature). I also noticed slightly elevated black levels, which could be because of the lack of Active HDR.

It's pretty much the only problem I have with the TV outside of panel uniformity, and it seems like it would be totally fixable with firmware. Unfortunately, the way LG has handled things with the 2016 models does not inspire confidence they will improve things.

I also noticed there was an update for the YouTube app yesterday. I was hoping this would address the HDR problem (elevated brightness/washed out look) but that does not appear to be the case.

 

[MazeHaze]

I haven't seen any gradient banding in HDR PC on my PC. Is it just a PS4 thing? Also I saw somebody post that if you change output to 4:2:0 on ps4 pro, the banding issue goes away.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Because of a huge new couch in my living room I had to place the 65B6 somewhere else in the living room. Viewing distance is now 3 meters, which still sounds like a lot even though it seems very close when I sit down and I'm gaming.

Actually my eyes had to adjust a little with Borderlands The Pre sequel because it was so fast and I had to focus extra much on things. And this is at 3 meters. Holy shit at folks who sit 2 meters or closer to a 65 incher.

 

[grfunkulus]

Because of a huge new couch in my living room I had to place the 65B6 somewhere else in the living room. Viewing distance is now 3 meters, which still sounds like a lot even though it seems very close when I sit down and I'm gaming.

Actually my eyes had to adjust a little with Borderlands The Pre sequel because it was so fast and I had to focus extra much on things. And this is at 3 meters. Holy shit at folks who sit 2 meters or closer to a 65 incher.

I sit one meter from the 55B6 :0

 

[ApharmdX]

Vincent Teoh who organised the HDTVTest shootout didn't agree with that either. If we leave the ZD9 out for a minute and consider that a professional calibrator/reviewer considers the XE94 to be the best HDR TV of 2017, a TV which isn't even as good of a performer as the ZD9 then hmm, makes you think.

I mean, I own an OLED myself but it's just outclassed by an 1800 nit TV, especially in gaming where full field brightness matters a lot more.

What kind of games are you playing where full-field brightness matter? Most of the games I play are dark and have lots of particle effects. Z9D chokes on those, as FALD zones cannot adequately produce bright spots again a dark/black background without blooming. IMO HDR can look better on OLED in mixed-contrast scenes where their zero blacks create more perceived contrast. For full-field bright scenes, no, but after a certain point in a dark room IMO there's a limit to how bright I want a display to be. My B7 gets extremely bright already in HDR and, since I only play in the dark, my OLED light is set much lower than most of you. If I watched in the day time or with lots of ambient room light, the LCDs might be more palatable.

HDTV Test shootout

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...nates-latest-public-tv-shootout/#559a90b15b3e

ISF shootout

http://www.avsforum.com/ce-week-2017-annual-tv-shootout-results-lg-e7-oled-wins/

What am I missing about how the Z9D "outperforms" every other TV?

Yeah, OLED dominated the big shootouts this year.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

I sit one meter from the 55B6 :0

Did your eyes have to adjust to be able to properly focus during fast shooters?

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

What kind of games are you playing where full-field brightness matter? Most of the games I play are dark and have lots of particle effects. Z9D chokes on those, as FALD zones cannot adequately produce bright spots again a dark/black background without blooming. IMO HDR can look better on OLED in mixed-contrast scenes where their zero blacks create more perceived contrast. For full-field bright scenes, no, but after a certain point in a dark room IMO there's a limit to how bright I want a display to be. My B7 gets extremely bright already in HDR and, since I only play in the dark, my OLED light is set much lower than most of you. If I watched in the day time or with lots of ambient room light, the LCDs might be more palatable.



Yeah, OLED dominated the big shootouts this year.

I honestly don't agree with that, you'd be very surprised at how well a decent FALD can handle mixed contrast scenes, the blacks look black and obviously the peaks are excellent, the worst offender for me is film credits, white text on black, is not a FALD's best friend, but generally it's amazing; granted the precision on an OLED can help and catch up to a degree.

 

[grfunkulus]

Did your eyes have to adjust to be able to properly focus during fast shooters?

Oh, yeah, big time. 60fps shooters are almost a must but Destiny is my favorite and for a long time, I felt like I was at a competitive disadvantage because sitting that close on a 30fps game increases the feeling of frame-y-ness (not to mention I nearly have to make a physical adjustment every time I want to look at the radar).

My mind boggles at people saying 2016 Oleds and later aren't bright enough. If I sat this close to a Sony Z9D, I would be legally blind by now.

 

[Kambing]

Because of a huge new couch in my living room I had to place the 65B6 somewhere else in the living room. Viewing distance is now 3 meters, which still sounds like a lot even though it seems very close when I sit down and I'm gaming.

Actually my eyes had to adjust a little with Borderlands The Pre sequel because it was so fast and I had to focus extra much on things. And this is at 3 meters. Holy shit at folks who sit 2 meters or closer to a 65 incher.

To start, I'd recommend trying to sit 2.3-2.5 meters away if your living room can accommodate it... with my mates, increasing their FOV to the TV took some adjustment (30 minutes lol), but none of them went back to further sitting once settled. The sweet spot for a 65 inch 4k display in my opinion is 2-2.2 meters.

What's your favorite game?

 

[Mrbob]

I haven't seen any gradient banding in HDR PC on my PC. Is it just a PS4 thing? Also I saw somebody post that if you change output to 4:2:0 on ps4 pro, the banding issue goes away.

Very interesting. Time to go into pc mode for PS4 then.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

To start, I'd recommend trying to sit 2.3-2.5 meters away if your living room can accommodate it... with my mates, increasing their FOV to the TV took some adjustment (30 minutes lol), but none of them went back to further sitting once settled. The sweet spot for a 65 inch 4k display in my opinion is 2-2.2 meters.

What's your favorite game?

Good thing is I can move the TV closer to me while it's still standing on the AV furniture. It'll probably be about 2.5 meters then. Of course if I want to I can just move the furniture itself a little closer. One thing is for sure, I'm going to be spotting the smallest details in upcoming games haha. And that's great because at 3 meters or more you just don't notice it as easily.

Which is good, because actually with quite a few games i had to sit closer to read journals and just text in general. Witcher 3 for example at launch had insanely small text font, crazy, lol. I'm surprised though that these 1080p games don't look so blurry as they used to do. Maybe that's because I played them on my fat Xbox One and now on a Xbox One S I borrowed from a friend. 4K should be lovely come November though.

As for favorite game, that's a hard one. For this year so far it's probably Prey. Favorite genre however is RPG by far.

Oh and thanks to someone on Reddit I turned on 10 bits color depth on Xbox One. Had no idea my TV was 10 bits, lol. Apparently this can help against banding.

 

[DangerMouse]

I dunno, I played The Lost Legacy last night on my B6, and it looked pretty fucking great with hdr. And super bright in my (admittedly) dark living room.

Like, I get that you've been on this anti-oled rampage for a while now in this thread, but you're kind of painting a inaccurate picture of oled TVs. Of course there are problems/issues. But there are downsides for practically every tv out there.

I agree, I think the LG and A1E OLEDs (and likely the Panasonic which I didn't have to choose from) are plenty bright for amazing picture and HDR in most lighting conditions (minus the changed LG game mode since I haven't seen it in person), except maybe direct dead-on sunlight, which would be awful to watch TV in anyway. As has been said, peak brightness isn't even the only factor to HDR, since while it's true they might be worse on the bright end they're also better on the dark end. For example, not all video and movies are bright movies, in a dark movie with colored highlights (John Wick 2, etc.) we've seen that the OLED ability of direct pixel control and true black and better near black for HDR can deliver an image that many consider more striking than brighter LCDs since peak brightness is not the end all be all.

As has been said numerous times, neither is perfect.

Also like RedlineRonin said, personally I expect that most viewing (even more so on the level of TVs we are talking about) is actually done at night in "primetime" with only moderately bright or dark-ish unevenly lit living rooms rather than super bright sunlit living rooms during the day. I imagine such rooms are dark enough to where OLED starts strutting some of its own benefits despite not being as bright as the LCDs.

Vincent Teoh only thinks the ZD9 has the upper hand in HDR (in most cases anyway)
And peak brightness, while extremely important, isn't all there is to HDR (the HDTV test/ ISFshootouts can attest to that).
For everything else even he would go OLED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps-JIttlB8c&feature=youtu.be&t=1078

This.

 

[Plum]

Just got an email back from Sony about my vertical banding issues

Spoiler

It's within spec

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

HDR bright and vivid are plenty bright but HDR game isn't. HDR game can be made a lot more bright with the dynamic contrast and it's quite an improvement but still it's no HDR bright where sunlight and lighting in general is much more vibrant. It's just tame, toned down with HDR game mode.

I wish HDR game mode had the settings of HDR bright. It's unfortunate when Battlefront 2 releases and no doubt will have HDR that I'll have to cope with HDR game because the input outside HDR game isn't too great.

 

[Ashhong]

Yeah, Amazon video is the main time I use my Android TV's app.

Opposite for me. I have the MiBox 4k and it doesn't support Amazon Video. I use the built in app for that and it's great

 

[Matbtz]

Hi TV Gaf, I'm preparing to buy my first TV, surely for Black Friday.

I'm in France so I will be looking for European deals for a 55 4K TV for a budget around 1000€ top.

I heard that the KS7000 (US : KS8000) and the X900E are really good. Will I find those TVs around my budget? Which TVs should I be looking for?

What TV and at what price should I pull the trigger do you think?

Thanks

Edit : Maybe I'll be watching deals for the TCL C70 too

 

[Alfredo_V]

2017 models are safe from it, right?

No, 2017 LG OLEDs also suffering from dim HDR game mode. Load up Resident Evil 7 for example, you can't see shit in darker areas (even when tinkering with in-game light settings or dynamic contrast).

I'm very disappointed with this, also frustrated when it's firmware related.

 

[GinoFelino]

Just got an email back from Sony about my vertical banding issues

Spoiler

It's within spec

 

[Kambing]

No, 2017 LG OLEDs also suffering from dim HDR game mode. Load up Resident Evil 7 for example, you can't see shit in darker areas (even when tinkering with in-game light settings or dynamic contrast).

I'm very disappointed with this, also frustrated when it's firmware related.

I couldn’t disagree more. RE7 on both my B7/C7 is reference tier for HDR implementation. The increased bottom for ABL and higher peak nits on the 2017 vs 2016 is super apparent in this title. Real pity our experiences are completely opposite.

May i ask how you have your TV setup when engaging in HDR?

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

I couldn’t disagree more. RE7 on both my B7/C7 is reference tier for HDR implementation. The increased bottom for ABL and higher peak nits on the 2017 vs 2016 is super apparent in this title. Real pity our experiences are completely opposite.

May i ask how you have your TV setup when engaging in HDR?

Hey man, no joke, me and a friend have done a test with out sets, I am on older firmware he is on latest. HDR game mode looks awful on latest firmware compared to mine. Same devices same inputs same everything trying to troubleshoot it all.

It may not be as bad as on the 6 models and I can’t comment since I haven’t seen it but this is a thing. Lots of posts over on avs about it too.

 

[Ushay]

Hi TV Gaf, I'm preparing to buy my first TV, surely for Black Friday.

I'm in France so I will be looking for European deals for a 55 4K TV for a budget around 1000€ top.

I heard that the KS7000 (US : KS8000) and the X900E are really good. Will I find those TVs around my budget? Which TVs should I be looking for?

What TV and at what price should I pull the trigger do you think?

Thanks

There is a good chance both those sets will be sub €1000 Euros by Black Friday. At least that is my hope as well, I have the XE900 in my sights, since it's labelled as the best for mid/high range HDR sets.

 

[GreenMonkey]

Hey man, no joke, me and a friend have done a test with out sets, I am on older firmware he is on latest. HDR game mode looks awful on latest firmware compared to mine. Same devices same inputs same everything trying to troubleshoot it all.

It may not be as bad as on the 6 models and I can’t comment since I haven’t seen it but this is a thing. Lots of posts over on avs about it too.

Is that with the dynamic setting turned on like LG recommended in their response to the complaints about the HDR game mode?

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Is that with the dynamic setting turned on like LG recommended in their response to the complaints about the HDR game mode?

Yes and it does make it a bit better but also washes any bright whites out and if you have blue skies and white clouds for example they all “blend into” each other. Dynamic contrast on high is not the solution that’s for sure :/ it introduces a whole lot of other problems. Don’t get me wrong I love my set but I am never fucking upgrading the firmware again after seeing dim HDR mode on newer firmware

 

[Kambing]

Hey man, no joke, me and a friend have done a test with out sets, I am on older firmware he is on latest. HDR game mode looks awful on latest firmware compared to mine. Same devices same inputs same everything trying to troubleshoot it all.

It may not be as bad as on the 6 models and I can't comment since I haven't seen it but this is a thing. Lots of posts over on avs about it too.

Yeah I don't doubt you or the other posters experience, it just sucks to see my experience be completely opposite. Hmm I'll have to double check.

I just checked and looks just like I remembered it. You have a 2017 set?

 

[Alfredo_V]

I couldn’t disagree more. RE7 on both my B7/C7 is reference tier for HDR implementation. The increased bottom for ABL and higher peak nits on the 2017 vs 2016 is super apparent in this title. Real pity our experiences are completely opposite.

May i ask how you have your TV setup when engaging in HDR?

TV (LG OLEDB7V)<--Reciever-->PS4 pro. All enhancing TV settings off, all other default settings.
Believe me when I'm saying I tried to tinker with all settings available, it's too dark no matter what I do - it's hard to describe with words, but all you see is whats lighted up with the flashlight, not so much details in the background. I mean in this mode (HDR game) OLED light/Contrast is maxed out and it's make no difference. Then I swap to HDR standard and you don't have crushed blacks and what I'm certain is what developers intendend you to see picture wise. But then you don't have the required input lag.

 

[psychotron]

Just got an email back from Sony about my vertical banding issues

Spoiler

It's within spec

I have it on my 900E. Sometimes it’s really annoying. If I didn’t get this for such a great price I’d be pissed. I emailed the guys at rtings about DSE and vertical lines. They test on sports and a static gray screen, but you really need to test it on games with a sky view. I see no vertical lines on footbal but I see plenty of shit when gaming.

 

[Kambing]

TV (LG OLEDB7V)<--Reciever-->PS4 pro. All enhancing TV settings off, all other default settings.
Believe me when I'm saying I tried to tinker with all settings available, it's too dark no matter what I do - it's hard to describe with words, but all you see is whats lighted up with the flashlight, not so much details in the background. I mean in this mode (HDR game) OLED light/Contrast is maxed out and it's make no difference. Then I swap to HDR standard and you don't have crushed blacks and what I'm certain is what developers intendend you to see picture wise. But then you don't have the required input lag.

What input mode are you in?

Also my in game brightness settings are:

Max Brightness 2000
Brightness 315

 

[ToD_]

TV (LG OLEDB7V)<--Reciever-->PS4 pro. All enhancing TV settings off, all other default settings.
Believe me when I'm saying I tried to tinker with all settings available, it's too dark no matter what I do - it's hard to describe with words, but all you see is whats lighted up with the flashlight, not so much details in the background. I mean in this mode (HDR game) OLED light/Contrast is maxed out and it's make no difference. Then I swap to HDR standard and you don't have crushed blacks and what I'm certain is what developers intendend you to see picture wise. But then you don't have the required input lag.

That doesn't seem to be the issue I have with the dim HDR game mode on the C7. In my case no detail is lost in darker areas, it's just that the overall picture is not quite as bright as other modes (highlights in particular). Shadow detail is totally fine. Are you sure your black level is set up ok?