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[pswii60]

I don't get it...

Wouldn't both screens be
1st frame - 33.3ms
2nd frame - 66.6ms
3rd frame - 99.9ms

no matter what? How can they be anything else on a locked 60hz display?

No, because when you change your display to a different mode, the refresh of the display is reset and begins from that point. So, as already explained to you multiple times, if the display had lag of 10ms, then the refresh would begin at 10ms, and the 1st frame would be shown at 10ms, with the second frame of a 30fps game being shown at 43.3ms. Of course, just as an aside, the console duplicates frames when showing a 30fps game, because the console output is locked to 60hz (and it's when this duplication isn't even and 2:1 that framepacing issues occur). And all modern displays have native 120hz panels (to support 24hz), so they're also duplicating frames.

You can't fool the Leo Bodnar. It's a button and a light sensor. If what you're saying was the case, then the Bodnar would only report back in mutiples of 16.6ms (60hz native display) or 8.3ms (120hz native display). It doesn't, because that isn't how lag works.

 

[Futurevoid]

I agree, at that price I would just buy the OLED. My case is the room will be dark most of the time so performance in bright rooms isn't an issue with me, hence why I don't shy from the LCD/LED panels.

Isn't that kind of the opposite situation though? The advantage of LCD/LED panels is their overall better peak brightness which can lend itself to very good bright room performance. The advantage of an OLED is its black level performance which really comes into play for dark room viewing. Dark room viewing is where I find that LCD/LED (especially edge lit displays) tend to fall apart because of the blooming/clouding issues that an occur and if you're playing the panel lottery - light bleed could also be an issue.

 

[molnizzle]

No, because when you change your display to a different mode, the refresh of the display is reset and begins from that point. So, as already explained to you multiple times, if the display had lag of 10ms, then the refresh would begin at 10ms, and the 1st frame would be shown at 10ms, with the second frame of a 30fps game being shown at 43.3ms. Of course, just as an aside, the console duplicates frames when showing a 30fps game, because the console output is locked to 60hz (and it's when this duplication isn't even and 2:1 that framepacing issues occur). And all modern displays have native 120hz panels (to support 24hz), so they're also duplicating frames.

What does this mean? I didn't know modes were changing.

I legitimately can't wrap my head around this. If a display has a locked 60hz refresh then then it has to update every 16.6ms. Before or after you press a button, it's showing a new frame every 16.6ms. If I'm idling at the PSN menu it's showing a new frame every 16.6ms.

So in our example earlier, if the input was done precisely at 33.3ms (in a 30fps game), how could the action not be reflected exactly at the same time on both displays? They'd both have to take two frames to show it.

You can't fool the Leo Bodnar. It's a button and a light sensor. If what you're saying was the case, then the Bodnar would only report back in mutiples of 16.6ms (60hz native display) or 8.3ms (120hz native display). It doesn't, because that isn't how lag works.

Plasmas absolutely fool the Leo Bodnar, which is why I never paid much attention to it.

 

[MakotoYuki]

A question for B6 owners.
Sometimes, when I plug the PC, but there isn't any sound playing, I can hear some kind of noise coming from the TV that disappears when I mute the TV. Is this normal or a problem with the speakers? It's weird since it doesn't always happen.

 

[Trojita]

"We tested the ZD9 with our Leo Bodnar tester and in Game mode with the local dimming off we got a measurement of 42ms and with the local dimming on we got 47ms, which should be low enough for most people, although serious gamers may find it slightly high. It is also slightly higher than the measurements we got for the XD93 and XD94, so we suspect the increased lag may be the result of the extra processing in the ZD9. However, personally we found gaming on the Sony to be an enjoyable experience as we blasted through a few sessions of No Man's Sky on our PS4." Source

Thanks. Was hoping they were able to get close to 30 in game mode with an update.

 

[Futurevoid]

If I'm not getting a new model from either Samsung, LG or Sony this year, I'll either get the KS8005 (Europe model, as I understand it this is KS9000 in North America?) or the OLED55B6V.

Are there things I need to think about before making my purchase in regards to pros and cons when it comes to these two TV sets? Or is it just depending on the budget? Should I just go for the OLED if I have the money?

Most will tell you just buy an OLED but honestly it comes down to what you prioritize in terms of image quality. I felt that coming from the Panasonic VT50 Plasma that I owned for nearly 4 years - it was very difficult to live with the limitations of LCD/LED displays. Especially edge lit units that featured (to varying degrees of severity) clouding and blooming issues. Also, in the case of VA panels which are a must if you give one iota about good black levels - really poor off angle viewing. In some cases, these issues are mitigated depending on the manufacturer and how they choose to implement the technology in their sets. Top of the line LCD/LED displays that can cost a pretty penny in particular minimize some of these issues greatly with FALD implementation with more zones, etc. and we're seeing more improvement in the 2017 sets coming to market (like QDCF from Samsung).

However, for me there was never any other option than OLED in the price range I was looking at ($1300-$2000). I prioritize black level and contrast above brightness and "pop" that a number of people mention. My wife and I watch movie regularly along with my two daughters spread out in our den and off angle viewing was a priority coming from a plasma display.

I don't want to state that that's right or wrong for everyone. You need to decide what you prioritize and go from there. OLED isn't perfect. You're still playing the panel lottery in a sense as the vertical banding and vignetting can still be a factor. Motion resolution/handling on LG's sets leave a bit to be desired (it's why so many are excited about Sony's OLED - an LG panel with Sony's video processing and motion handling? *banderas*). For me though, the pros FAR outweighed the negatives. You need to make that choice for yourself.

 

[Ryde3]

Image retention does happen. Burn-in doesn't. IR is actually very easy to achieve, but it disappears very quickly in my experience. If you want to see this at it's worst, a game like The Witness in HDR mode really does show it. This has been the only game I have noticed IR in thus far though - I guess it is because of the extremely bright white puzzles on-screen, coupled with HDR which has contrast set to max by default.

I think you are right in that ABL may be something you are either sensitive to or aren't.

As to the pure black thing. it's a massive selling point for sure, but I don't subscribe to the whole Kuro = perfect set thing either. My blacks on mine, had a slight reddish tinge to them, whereas my OLED is complete black, as in the TV disappears into the darkness at night. Every set out there has it's issues - even the ZD9 (arguably the best all-round consumer set on the market). It is finding out which of these issues you can live with that is key to finding the set for you - for example, I would find DSE far more a problem for gaming than ABL - something OLEDs do not suffer from, whereas most LCD panels do.

The Witness is the only place I've noticed IR on my B6 OLED, and it's pretty jarring. Any tips to minimize? Turn off HDR? haha.

Unrelated but related - I have a PS4 pro and when playing some games (Uncharted 4, The Witness) I notice a horizontal scanline, or perhaps even tearing? I never see it on other content like Netflix but it's concerning and I don't know what's causing it. I have caught a video of it if anyone would like to see and maybe give me some input but thought I'd just post first. Thanks for any insight ahead of time!

 

[allangelsgone]

Are there things I need to think about before making my purchase in regards to pros and cons when it comes to these two TV sets? Or is it just depending on the budget? Should I just go for the OLED if I have the money?

Generally something like this. Please correct if I forgot something.

LCD with VA-panel

Pros:
65" for the same price as 55" OLED.
Brightness and HDR10.
Good in brighter environment.
Good input lag.

Cons:
Viewing angle.
Blacks, clouding and bloom.​

OLED

Pros:
Blacks and Contrast.
Dolby Vision HDR & HDR10.
Great in dark room viewing.
Good viewing angle.
Good input lag after patch.
WebOS and magic remote looks dope.

Cons:
Expensive. Can only afford 55".
Motion and judder problems.
Near blacks can be bad from what I hear.
Brightness limited / Automatic Backlight Limiter (ABL)
Non permanent image retention.
​

I'm gonna go with OLED because I use my TV in a dark environment and from the demos I've seen the picture looks insane in standard definition.

 

[tr00per]

Random question here (and I hope this is an appropriate thread to ask) but I've been reading up on commercial "digital signage" monitors and how they tend to have better components, thinner bezels, and more comprehensive warranties than their consumer-grade counterparts. Naturally, this comes with a higher price.

Is there any reason why one wouldn't want to use these in a home theater setup? Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Midas]

Most will tell you just buy an OLED but honestly it comes down to what you prioritize in terms of image quality. I felt that coming from the Panasonic VT50 Plasma that I owned for nearly 4 years - it was very difficult to live with the limitations of LCD/LED displays. Especially edge lit units that featured (to varying degrees of severity) clouding and blooming issues. Also, in the case of VA panels which are a must if you give one iota about good black levels - really poor off angle viewing. In some cases, these issues are mitigated depending on the manufacturer and how they choose to implement the technology in their sets. Top of the line LCD/LED displays that can cost a pretty penny in particular minimize some of these issues greatly with FALD implementation with more zones, etc. and we're seeing more improvement in the 2017 sets coming to market (like QDCF from Samsung).

However, for me there was never any other option than OLED in the price range I was looking at ($1300-$2000). I prioritize black level and contrast above brightness and "pop" that a number of people mention. My wife and I watch movie regularly along with my two daughters spread out in our den and off angle viewing was a priority coming from a plasma display.

I don't want to state that that's right or wrong for everyone. You need to decide what you prioritize and go from there. OLED isn't perfect. You're still playing the panel lottery in a sense as the vertical banding and vignetting can still be a factor. Motion resolution/handling on LG's sets leave a bit to be desired (it's why so many are excited about Sony's OLED - an LG panel with Sony's video processing and motion handling? *banderas*). For me though, the pros FAR outweighed the negatives. You need to make that choice for yourself.

Generally something like this. Please correct if I forgot something.

LCD with VA-panel

Pros:
65" for the same price as 55" OLED.
Brightness and HDR10.
Good in brighter environment.
Good input lag.

Cons:
Viewing angle.
Blacks, clouding and bloom.​

OLED

Pros:
Blacks and Contrast.
Dolby Vision HDR & HDR10.
Great in dark room viewing.
Good viewing angle.
Good input lag after patch.
WebOS and magic remote looks dope.

Cons:
Expensive. Can only afford 55".
Motion and judder problems.
Near blacks can be bad from what I hear.
Brightness limited / Automatic Backlight Limiter (ABL)
Non permanent image retention.
​

I'm gonna go with OLED because I use my TV in a dark environment and from the demos I've seen the picture looks insane in standard definition.

Thanks for this guys, it's really appreciated. So hard to decide, haha. I'm going to look at them again tomorrow in a store. Maybe I should wait until we see the pricing for the new models? So many maybe's...

 

[Paragon]

I legitimately can't wrap my head around this. If a display has a locked 60hz refresh then then it has to update every 16.6ms. Before or after you press a button, it's showing a new frame every 16.6ms. If I'm idling at the PSN menu it's showing a new frame every 16.6ms.

So in our example earlier, if the input was done precisely at 33.3ms (in a 30fps game), how could the action not be reflected exactly at the same time on both displays? They'd both have to take two frames to show it.

And they do take two frames. But the start point for each display showing an image is not the same.
Let's take this to a ridiculous extreme.

You have two displays:
One has zero lag.
One has two minutes of lag.

You switch to a 30 FPS game:
TV1 displays the game instantly.
TV2 takes two minutes to display the game.

The game has two frames of lag. You press the jump button.
TV1 displays your character jumping after 66.6ms.
TV2 displays your character jumping after two minutes and 66.6ms.

The action still took two frames, but it took two minutes for the second TV to display it.
The amount of lag a TV has is not linked to the source in any way, and is always added to it.

Plasmas absolutely fool the Leo Bodnar, which is why I never paid much attention to it.

It works just fine for most/all Plasmas.

 

[Futurevoid]

I'm gonna go with OLED because I use my TV in a dark environment and from the demos I've seen the picture looks insane in standard definition.

It looks insane in UHD/HDR/DV as well. Yes the peak brightness isn't going to touch the Z9D in HDR reproduction but I'll take the added contrast and detail over the HDR image produced by the Samsung KS8000 which is one of the more popular televisions on this board. Ratchet and Clank in HDR on the B6 is jaw dropping.

If you're going OLED, try to work in an extra $300-400 and have it professionally calibrated. Or if you're a hobbyist, you can buy the equipment and learn to do it yourself. Either way, proper calibration can help to mitigate some of the issues with near black detail, etc.

 

[allangelsgone]

It looks insane in UHD/HDR/DV as well. Yes the peak brightness isn't going to touch the Z9D in HDR reproduction but I'll take the added contrast and detail over the HDR image produced by the Samsung KS8000 which is one of the more popular televisions on this board. Ratchet and Clank in HDR on the B6 is jaw dropping.

If you're going OLED, try to work in an extra $300-400 and have it professionally calibrated. Or if you're a hobbyist, you can buy the equipment and learn to do it yourself. Either way, proper calibration can help to mitigate some of the issues with near black detail, etc.

Yeah, Media Markt offers ISF-calibration here in Sweden for 220 $ which I consider a good investment. I'm just waiting for the prices for B6 to fall to Black Friday levels and I'm getting one. =)

 

[holygeesus]

The only thing to consider with professional calibration, is these sets lose their brightness over time, so you are going to have to stump up again years down the line, to keep it in spec. Much like plasma I guess. Of course if you update every few years then that won't be an issue

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Setup my LG B6 last night and the picture is atrocious. There is a ton of static noise/fuzz and juddering on every source I tried. Static text looks bad and scrolling text (e.g. on news channels) is barely readable. I also tried Netflix 4k using both the tv and xbox one s' app and Orange is the New Black looked god awful also. =/

I messed with settings all night and made no progress. Thinking about stopping by Best Buy today and asking to have it replaced with a new set.

 

[The Beard]

Setup my LG B6 last night and the picture is atrocious. There is a ton of static noise/fuzz and juddering on every source I tried. Static text looks bad and scrolling text (e.g. on news channels) is barely readable. I also tried Netflix 4k using both the tv and xbox one s' app and Orange is the New Black looked god awful also. =/

I messed with settings all night and made no progress. Thinking about stopping by Best Buy today and asking to have it replaced with a new set.

Interesting, have any pics? Best Buy is usually pretty good about exchanging TVs, you shouldn't have an issue there.

 

[holygeesus]

Setup my LG B6 last night and the picture is atrocious. There is a ton of static noise/fuzz and juddering on every source I tried. Static text looks bad and scrolling text (e.g. on news channels) is barely readable. I also tried Netflix 4k using both the tv and xbox one s' app and Orange is the New Black looked god awful also. =/

I messed with settings all night and made no progress. Thinking about stopping by Best Buy today and asking to have it replaced with a new set.

Try disconnecting the plug for 5 minutes and trying again. Might be glitched.

 

[Griss]

Was shopping online for a TV, saw some nice ones, and then realised that I was forgetting to account for $200 shipping, 1.5% travel insurance and 33% customs duty.

Welp, I just went from shopping for a 1,000-,1200 set to the 600-800 range. Island living sometimes has it's downsides.

Thinking about the Samsung KS7000 at $750. So long sweet KS8000.

Any reason not to buy? Is there any upcoming sales period etc in the states (which is where I order from). Or is there some well-known set that's great at that price? Seems to me like most of the decent sets start at $900 which is still a little rich for my tastes when that would come out to $1,500+ delivered.

 

[The_Spaniard]

I would monitor this thread on the AVS forums for deals: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/322-o.../2399970-2016-lg-b-c-e-g-series-deals-65.html

Consensus seems to be that prices have spiked now post holiday and will drop in the next couple of weeks for super bowl deals so you may want to hold off until then.

Those price spikes seem to be just with big box retailers, and not so much with the smaller reputable resellers. If I get an OLED65E6P from Cleveland Plasma for $3-3,200 and then get 500 bucks knocked off of that using my credit card's price protection, that should still be one of the best deals I'll get for a while right?

 

[Yukstin]

Those price spikes seem to be just with big box retailers, and not so much with the smaller reputable resellers. If I get an OLED65E6P from Cleveland Plasma for $3-3,200 and then get 500 bucks knocked off of that using my credit card's price protection, that should still be one of the best deals I'll get for a while right?

For sure that's a good deal and no tax either. I believe also in thread they say LG does have a lot of control over their prices so if big boxes retailers have a big sale, Cleveland AV might be able to offer the TV at a bigger discount as well.

 

[dallow_bg]

For sure that's a good deal and no tax either. I believe also in thread they say LG does have a lot of control over their prices so if big boxes retailers have a big sale, Cleveland AV might be able to offer the TV at a bigger discount as well.

Yup. Even Cleveland's price can ebb and flow depending on the internal promotions from LG. The owner posts about it in that very thread from time to time.
When big box places go low, Cleveland and other smaller dealers can go lower.

 

[The_Spaniard]

For sure that's a good deal and no tax either. I believe also in thread they say LG does have a lot of control over their prices so if big boxes retailers have a big sale, Cleveland AV might be able to offer the TV at a bigger discount as well.

Question is, since I've already been waiting since October to buy, should I wait a few more weeks for possible sales (though prices might actually go up more because I've been hearing of shortages now that the new 2017 models have been announced at CES and people are scrambling to buy the 2016s), or just buy at an already amazing deal of $3-3,200 from Cleveland Plasma, along with the extra 500 bucks off, and just be happy?

 

[J-Rzez]

Yep, that's Samsung contrast. Their FALD models are meh as well because they have disgusting levels of blooming/halo, and you can literally see how large their zones are. The Sony 940D blew away the Samsung 9800 at the VE Shootout for a reason, and was the best LED TV you can buy until the Z9 came out. These new TVs will be more of the same. Samsung really is going to get shown up this year big time.

Their advertising/name will sustain them through this year, along with whatever misleading tech jargon and acronyms they come up with. The enthusiasts will once again be looking at LG and Sony.

You can see the confusion everywhere with Samsung, even here, people not knowing what means what and what models do what.

I wish 40 inch models of the OLED displays were available. They'd make excellent monitors. I'm jealous of you OLED guys. I'm waiting for 1000 nits plus OLED displays to with better anti image retention.

This is what I was hoping to see this year. I'm using a 49X830C and Asus 24" 144hz VQ for my monitors now. Oh well. I guess when I get another OLED this year I'll be moving my LG OLED EF9500 upstairs to the computer room.

People worried about burn in and IR with OLED, as long as you utilize commonsense, and don't max brightness (why would you in the first place), you don't have to worry about it. I have ZERO BI/IR on my 2015 EF9500 and i my PC on it at times, a PS4, nVidia shield, and cablebox. I see it on displays in stores, but those sets have them in torch-mode playing the same dark screens with bright colors over and over.

Even if the OLEDs don't hit 1000+nits, doesn't mean they can't do HDR well enough people. Remember OLED has a different rating than LED-LCD. The only TV that can compete with their PQ is the Z9, which is $5,550 for a 65", while you will get a 65" OLED for half that price. Only advantage the Z9 has is it's 75" is more cost effective than the 77" OLED from this year. And the 100" is $50-60k... lol.

This multiformat HDR thing has to freaking GO. There is NO reason we have to have a format war with this crap like VHS/Betamax, BR/HD-DVD with this junk. Between that and this stupid HDMI standard garbage going on it's just a grand scheme to get people to buy more often. This stuff is a dumpster fire at best, especially if HDMI 2.0/2.0a can't be updated via firmware, which looks to be the case. HDCP can piss off.

 

[molnizzle]

And they do take two frames. But the start point for each display showing an image is not the same.
Let's take this to a ridiculous extreme.

You have two displays:
One has zero lag.
One has two minutes of lag.

You switch to a 30 FPS game:
TV1 displays the game instantly.
TV2 takes two minutes to display the game.

The game has two frames of lag. You press the jump button.
TV1 displays your character jumping after 66.6ms.
TV2 displays your character jumping after two minutes and 66.6ms.

The action still took two frames, but it took two minutes for the second TV to display it.
The amount of lag a TV has is not linked to the source in any way, and is always added to it.

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. That makes sense now, thanks.

It works just fine for most/all Plasmas.

This isn't true though, at least not of the 2010-2012 era Panasonics that I compared back when I was in the market for my current set. Leo Bodnar shows a much higher amount of lag because it doesn't pick up the "dim" part of the frame at first even though your eyes will be able to see it. The camera/stopwatch method was the best way to get an accurate reading on those sets.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Interesting, have any pics? Best Buy is usually pretty good about exchanging TVs, you shouldn't have an issue there.

I can post some pics after work. And yeah, I have until the 15th to return it, so if they give me any issues about replacing it they can just take it back.

Try disconnecting the plug for 5 minutes and trying again. Might be glitched.

I'll run home and try this before heading to Best Buy. I probably should have thought about this last night, but I was so aggravated my brain was barely functioning.

 

[Yukstin]

Question is, since I've already been waiting since October to buy, should I wait a few more weeks for possible sales (though prices might actually go up more because I've been hearing of shortages now that the new 2017 models have been announced at CES and people are scrambling to buy the 2016s), or just buy at an already amazing deal of $3-3,200 from Cleveland Plasma, along with the extra 500 bucks off, and just be happy?

I'm not convinced there is going to a shortage between now and the Super Bowl. The products that LG brought to CES usually aren't available until April/May so I don't think LG wouldn't have product to sell through until the 2017 versions arrive. I know last year, there was 2015 OLED stock well into the summer.

That price is tempting though. I bought in October when prices dropped and I'm happy with what I paid. I know they prices dropped a bit more after I bought but I was too busy enjoying the new TV to care.

 

[The_Spaniard]

I'm not convinced there is going to a shortage between now and the Super Bowl. The products that LG brought to CES usually aren't available until April/May so I don't think LG wouldn't have product to sell through until the 2017 versions arrive. I know last year, there was 2015 OLED stock well into the summer.

That price is tempting though. I bought in October when prices dropped and I'm happy with what I paid. I know they prices dropped a bit more after I bought but I was too busy enjoying the new TV to care.

By shortage, I don't mean hard to find, I mean price increases due to lowering stocks. I called Cleveland Plasma yesterday and was told that prices across a ton of retailers had increased because demand had increased after the new model announcements, with some retailers selling out through several orders and having to re-order even more.

 

[Futurevoid]

Setup my LG B6 last night and the picture is atrocious. There is a ton of static noise/fuzz and juddering on every source I tried. Static text looks bad and scrolling text (e.g. on news channels) is barely readable. I also tried Netflix 4k using both the tv and xbox one s' app and Orange is the New Black looked god awful also. =/

I messed with settings all night and made no progress. Thinking about stopping by Best Buy today and asking to have it replaced with a new set.

So this may be a silly question but I've seen LG sometimes put a film over the screen itself out of the box. There's usually like two small black pieces of what looks like tape at each edge. That film makes the image looks HORRID. I've seen it specifically with panel replacements. Maybe a long shot but are you sure there's no film or anything actually sitting on the screen itself that needs to be removed? It's like a static film meant to protect it.

If not, might be worth running a clear panel noise manual cycle as well if unplugging, etc,. does not work.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

So this may be a silly question but I've seen LG sometimes put a film over the screen itself out of the box. There's usually like two small black pieces of what looks like tape at each edge. That film makes the image looks HORRID. I've seen it specifically with panel replacements. Maybe a long shot but are you sure there's no film or anything actually sitting on the screen itself that needs to be removed? It's like a static film meant to protect it.

If not, might be worth running a clear panel noise manual cycle as well if unplugging, etc,. does not work.

I ran a couple cycles to clear the panel noise and nothing changed. I don't think there is anything on the screen, but I'll double check when I stop home as well as unplug it for a bit. I'd feel stupid if it was that lol Thanks!

 

[J-Rzez]

By shortage, I don't mean hard to find, I mean price increases due to lowering stocks. I called Cleveland Plasma yesterday and was told that prices across a ton of retailers had increased because demand had increased after the new model announcements, with some retailers selling out through several orders and having to re-order even more.

So they will go back down likely for the super bowl. But from screens I've seen, supplies of these sets are not nearly as large as people think, and this is from the largest big box retailer of electronics in the US. LG and said company seem to have sold through far more than anticipated, and said company doesn't want a ton of eg9600s (which sat for a reason) collecting space.

They're expecting the new sets to hit sooner this year.

 

[J-Rzez]

Setup my LG B6 last night and the picture is atrocious. There is a ton of static noise/fuzz and juddering on every source I tried. Static text looks bad and scrolling text (e.g. on news channels) is barely readable. I also tried Netflix 4k using both the tv and xbox one s' app and Orange is the New Black looked god awful also. =/

I messed with settings all night and made no progress. Thinking about stopping by Best Buy today and asking to have it replaced with a new set.

Might be an issue with the set. I assume you updated it? And if you tried numerous sources, I'd suggest returning it. Chris is a good guy from CP, but this is a reason I'd be worried about purchasing through a business like that. Well that, restocking fees, and warranty claims. I haven't see one of those exhibit that before. Did you notice the same in store?

 

[HideyoshiJP]

Any of you kids got the Sony X930D? I'm returning my second 55" X850D due to backlight bleed (makes FFXV look nasty at night). I didn't mind the IPS glow, but I can't stand the sharp bleeding. I'm worried about backlight bleed on the 55" X930D as well.

 

[Paragon]

This isn't true though, at least not of the 2010-2012 era Panasonics that I compared back when I was in the market for my current set. Leo Bodnar shows a much higher amount of lag because it doesn't pick up the "dim" part of the frame at first even though your eyes will be able to see it. The camera/stopwatch method was the best way to get an accurate reading on those sets.

Subframes are partial frames, not a complete image.
If anything, intentionally rejecting all but the final sub-frame would be the right thing to do.
Also: Panasonic's 3D plasmas reversed the order of driving so that the brightest subfield was drawn first.
Plasma owners just didn't like the results derived from an accurate method of measurement.

 

[J-Rzez]

Any of you kids got the Sony X930D? I'm returning my second 55" X850D due to backlight bleed (makes FFXV look nasty at night). I didn't mind the IPS glow, but I can't stand the sharp bleeding. I'm worried about backlight bleed on the 55" X930D as well.

It has that bleed/bloom as well at times. If it bothers you that much, you're going OLED.

 

[The_Spaniard]

So they will go back down likely for the super bowl. But from screens I've seen, supplies of these sets are not nearly as large as people think, and this is from the largest big box retailer of electronics in the US. LG and said company seem to have sold through far more than anticipated, and said company doesn't want a ton of eg9600s (which sat for a reason) collecting space.

They're expecting the new sets to hit sooner this year.

Well I just checked, and between yesterday and today I just saw prices jump 1-200 bucks on eBay, I think I should get on it now and just use my CCs price adjustment feature after the fact closer to the Super Bowl.

 

[Futurevoid]

I ran a couple cycles to clear the panel noise and nothing changed. I don't think there is anything on the screen, but I'll double check when I stop home as well as unplug it for a bit. I'd feel stupid if it was that lol Thanks!

Yeah if that's not it, the power off doesn't work and the cycles have been run - its time to replace it. Definitely sounds like a bad panel.

 

[Matty8787]

Anybody fancy giving me a helping hand?

Which of these will suit my needs best?

I will be viewing SD, HD, 4K via netflix/amazon and a UHD player eventually. Also have a PS4 Pro which I will be using a lot.

I was going to get the UEKS7000 55" but it is out of stock in the UK everywhere.

1: http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/sony/bravia-kd55xd8599/sony-kd55xd8599bu

2: http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/panasonic/viera-tx58dx802b/pana-tx58dx802b

3: http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/hisense/55m7000/hise-55m7000

Cheers everyone.

 

[molnizzle]

Subframes are partial frames, not a complete image.
If anything, intentionally rejecting all but the final sub-frame would be the right thing to do.
Also: Panasonic's 3D plasmas reversed the order of driving so that the brightest subfield was drawn first.
Plasma owners just didn't like the results derived from an accurate method of measurement.

It's a "partial frame" of the entire scene rather than just a piece of it, so if you can see it then it counts IMO. That's the point of input lag, being able to see what's happening on the screen. I can play SFV on my ST30 and not feel too bad about it. Still not the same as a gaming monitor, but definitely better than anything I'll get with curent gen TV's.

 

[The_Spaniard]

I called up my CC just to double check on the Price Rewind feature, and then called Cleveland Plasma. I got the machine, but left a message. So, as soon as they get back to me I'll be putting in an order for an OLED65E6P, then after it arrives putting in a price match claim with my CC.

This is the first TV I've bought since 2009, GET HYPE!

 

[HideyoshiJP]

It has that bleed/bloom as well at times. If it bothers you that much, you're going OLED.

I don't mind bloom if it's a function of the design. I'm talking defective bleed (i.e. only one or two corners, or middle of the panel). I just want a set that can match my two year old low-mid range W600B.

 

[NYR]

I called up my CC just to double check on the Price Rewind feature, and then called Cleveland Plasma. I got the machine, but left a message. So, as soon as they get back to me I'll be putting in an order for an OLED65E6P, then after it arrives putting in a price match claim with my CC.

This is the first TV I've bought since 2009, GET HYPE!

NICE! Welcome to the team!

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

I don't mind bloom if it's a function of the design. I'm talking defective bleed (i.e. only one or two corners, or middle of the panel). I just want a set that can match my two year old low-mid range W600B.

I had the 850 before I got the KS8000, returned it cause of the bleed as well as the blacks, if it wasn't for that probably would of kept the set cause I liked it a lot.

What are everyone thoughts on the new LG Super UHDTV sets with their "nano cell" tech? Wondering if those will be any good.

 

[HideyoshiJP]

I had the 850 before I got the KS8000, returned it cause of the bleed as well as the blacks, if it wasn't for that probably would of kept the set cause I liked it a lot.

What are everyone thoughts on the new LG Super UHDTV sets with their "nano cell" tech? Wondering if those will be any good.

The 8000 looks great, and Samsung has great quality. I'm just not a fan of the software (and the ads). People say the X930D has similar quality, just more expensive, so that's what I'm eyeing.

 

[Kyoufu]

I can't stop thinking about the A1E. I wonder how many mortgages the 77" will cost...

 

[Futurevoid]

The 8000 looks great, and Samsung has great quality. I'm just not a fan of the software (and the ads). People say the X930D has similar quality, just more expensive, so that's what I'm eyeing.

You're playing the panel lottery with the Samsung like any other. Generally if you're issue is with light bleed, you'll want to end up with a panel that starts with AU by AU Optronics (you can check on the outside of the box). The FA panels are Samsungs and are more prone to light bleed issues. I know you mentioned quality as well but that particular model isn't exactly a wonder of build quality either.

I had this happen to my set as well after about a week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS6l4mXIHzI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpGcKM1rfOc

The X930D is better television, IMO but at this point you might be better off waiting for the X93/XE93 coming out of CES. The inclusion of the X1 Extreme processor is huge there and worth the wait! I would imagine it will be priced similarly to the X930D at launch.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

The 8000 looks great, and Samsung has great quality. I'm just not a fan of the software (and the ads). People say the X930D has similar quality, just more expensive, so that's what I'm eyeing.

Yeah, 8000 was a great set too bad I had to return mine due to other issues and I figured I'd wait to see what will come this year.

I can't stop thinking about the A1E. I wonder how many mortgages the 77" will cost...

I think it's gonna start @3.5K....I know there were rumors of 1999.99+....I doubt, but we'll see. Would love to see reviews on it especially regarding sound.

You're playing the panel lottery with the Samsung like any other. Generally if you're issue is with light bleed, you'll want to end up with a panel that starts with AU by AU Optronics (you can check on the outside of the box). The FA panels are Samsungs and are more prone to light bleed issues. I know you mentioned quality as well but that particular model isn't exactly a wonder of build quality either.

I had this happen to my set as well after about a week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS6l4mXIHzI

The X930D is better television, IMO but at this point you might be better off waiting for the X93/XE93 coming out of CES. The inclusion of the X1 Extreme processor is huge there and worth the wait! I would imagine it will be priced similarly to the X930D at launch.

Yep, the panel I had was an AU panel I think....it was perfect no backlight bleed/clouding. I thought several times about picking it up at BJ's but every time I go there. I look at the boxes they're all FA panels, I think where you buy them depends on the type of panel you get.

 

[The_Spaniard]

NICE! Welcome to the team!

*Grinds teeth into powder* I just got a call from the family member that had previously said they were willing to take my current TV temporarily while I list it for sale, so that I'd have room for the new TV when it arrives. They changed their mind and don't feel like it anymore, then hung up on me mid sentence. Literally said, that they didn't want to do me the favor unless they could keep the TV, when originally I was letting them borrow a TV nearly twice the size of their own until I was able to sell it. Not 30 seconds later Cleveland Plasma called me back ready for my purchase, which I had to hold off on because I don't have room for it right now, and I'm not going to just toss a pristine 73" set.

Edit: Found a friend to take on the incredible burden of enjoying a TV better than their own for a little while while I try to sell it. Purchase pending with Cleveland Plasma!

 

[Night Hunter]

I can't stop thinking about the A1E. I wonder how many mortgages the 77" will cost...

I can see the lunatics over at Sony go toe to toe price-wise with the LG W7 just to satisfy some kind of principle

Spoiler

please don't

I'm hoping for 6000 MSRP, and praying for 5000 (for the 65" of course)

 

[Kyoufu]

I can see the lunatics over at Sony go toe to toe price-wise with the LG W7 just to satisfy some kind of principle

Spoiler

please don't

I'm hoping for 6000 MSRP, and praying for 5000 (for the 65" of course)

I think the 65" will be in line with the E6 when it first launched, but the 77"... it probably won't be 4 digits and that'll make me sad.

Then again, I should really wait for HDMI 2.1 to be a thing before I even consider buying a new set. I'm silly.

 

[Theonik]

77" A1E will cost $9999 at the minimum RRP. The 100" ZD9 is kinda funny, £60k RRP, for what it's worth seen it for £40k.
On that note staring at a 75" ZD9 for £3137 atm. Don't think I have space for it though I must resist.