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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED

holygeesus

Banned
You are absolutely right and it would not be a bad idea if someone created a thread on this type of procedure -

bought a new set? this is what you do the 1st 2 weeks--

detailing for a neophyte exactly what to look for with a crummy set, it seems that so many have the panel lottery nowadays, I imagine this would be a big help for some folks. Anyway just a thought.

Yeah it's a good idea. Maybe could be added to the OP. Perhaps a checklist of faults to look for would be handy.

In terms of OLED I would check the basics like uniformity - I know a lot of people swear by checking slides for banding etc, but I find it far more useful to look at your new panel with a completely white screen and check the image for tinting, which is one of my own personal niggles. The 2016 LG range is designed to be brighter at the left and right sides of the image to combat vignetting, so that is normal. However people should probably check for tinting, especially red which can be distracting.

I would also watch a lot of sport in the first few days. On panning shots, check for distinctive bands in the image as the camera moves across the field. This test, to me, is more important than checking slides for banding, as it's real world usage. I don't care if very specific test slides show mild bands as long as I don't see them during normal use, that is fine.

65" buyers in particular should be aware of vignetting, which is still an issue, albeit mitigated somewhat this generation. This is where the edge of the screen appears darker than the rest, and is very noticeable during dark scenes. As I say, LG did put in measures to combat this, but some sets still seem to suffer, so it is worth watching for.

Like any set, buy it from a retailer with a good returns policy and don't be afraid to return a set with any small issue, as if you notice something during the first few days of use, it is likely something that will annoy you every time you fire up your set, and for the money you are spending, you shouldn't put up with that.

Saying all that, if you do have any of the issues mentioned, it is worth running a manual compensation cycle before returning, as certain issues do seem to improve over time. Bands in particular.
 

BumRush

Member
If someone puts something together I'll add it. I have a few other things to add as well, post CES

Edit: holygeesus, I'll add this!!

So what about long-term benefts on PS5 etc? I'm not among those who will buy a TV every 2-3 years, so this could help me decide if I should buy now or stick with my plasma a little longer.

Check out my response on the prior page (last post on the page)
 
Yeah it's a good idea. Maybe could be added to the OP. Perhaps a checklist of faults to look for would be handy.

In terms of OLED I would check the basics like uniformity - I know a lot of people swear by checking slides for banding etc, but I find it far more useful to look at your new panel with a completely white screen and check the image for tinting, which is one of my own personal niggles. The 2016 LG range is designed to be brighter at the left and right sides of the image to combat vignetting, so that is normal. However people should probably check for tinting, especially red which can be distracting.

I would also watch a lot of sport in the first few days. On panning shots, check for distinctive bands in the image as the camera moves across the field. This test, to me, is more important than checking slides for banding, as it's real world usage. I don't care if very specific test slides show mild bands as long as I don't see them during normal use, that is fine.

65" buyers in particular should be aware of vignetting, which is still an issue, albeit mitigated somewhat this generation. This is where the edge of the screen appears darker than the rest, and is very noticeable during dark scenes. As I say, LG did put in measures to combat this, but some sets still seem to suffer, so it is worth watching for.

Like any set, buy it from a retailer with a good returns policy and don't be afraid to return a set with any small issue, as if you notice something during the first few days of use, it is likely something that will annoy you every time you fire up your set, and for the money you are spending, you shouldn't put up with that.

Saying all that, if you do have any of the issues mentioned, it is worth running a manual compensation cycle before returning, as certain issues do seem to improve over time. Bands in particular.

All great advice.

Also worth mentioning that LG has pretty fantastic customer service via their VIP line if you are outside of the return period and something crops up. I had the panel on my B6 replaced due to very noticeable banding in content recently. From the point of making the call to the new panel arriving and getting installed (over the New Years holiday even) took a week and it was as painless as a process could be.

In other words, don't be afraid to call the manufacturer on these issues. You shouldn't have to live with major flaws on these panels just cause you don't want to inconvenience. If anything you're being inconvenienced here. Not them.
 

J-Rzez

Member
You don't need to break in an OLED. They gradually lose brightness throughout their life anyway so any calibration will be an ongoing process.

That is what's considered breaking in on the OLEDs, uniformity, etc. My uniformity ended up good, my vignetting went away completely. Not saying you run in slides and stuff, but get usage, let uniformity/vignetting do it's thing, then set it to your tastes.
 

GeoNeo

I disagree.
They both really killed it, that's for sure. Samsung on the other hand is in "market to confuse the consumer" mode all over again. "SUHD" wasn't as offensive, but this "QLED" thing is ridiculous. Just something to damage control against OLED. Such a shame as people are going to walk into say a Best Buy, ask the "Samsung Expert" what it stands for, and they're going to regurgitate samsung's marketing and mislead some consumers.

They are a complete joke and their scaling quality has gone down too. They have completely LIED to consumers with their "HDR" sets they sell at best buy and the like. Only reason they went with HDR10 over Dolby is because they could label their shit tier panels HDR which we all know all know they are not.

Really disgusting practices.

End of the day LG & Sony have been killing it in the high end and making bank thank god Sony were not stupid enough to dick ride LCD for their high end sets this year they know the R&D they need to put in to put out high end product which still falls short of tech that allows true black levels is just silly. Only reason Samsung is pushing LCD so hard in high end is because they backed the wrong horse and now with how badly QDot progression is going they pretty much can't ramp up fast enough to start OLED plant for large size production and simply put LG has far surpassed them when it comes to putting out OLED panels with great life, brightness, and now prices being driven down thanks to higher volume.

Btw, the new "QLED" sets already come with new set of issues:

A report from a member of AVS that went to CES:

-Blacks do not seem to be close to OLED level. There may be some nonlinearity resulting in reduced blacks at the expense of some black crush, but blacks are still 'glowing' in OLED parlance.

-there appears to be increased banding near-black in dark colors (brown). This could be due to the nonlinearity that may have been introduced.

-the near-black sparkling/shimmering is very visible from relatively close (1-1.5 screen widths) and may mean viewing distance needs to be maintained farther back than that.


P.S. One more thing I should comment on is that Samsung was far more defensive at the show than LG. LG would allow me to get as close to any screen as Ivwanted and would let me stay for as long ascIvwanted. Samsung had lines on the carpet ad out a screen-widths away and would not let you inspect the screen closely (at least any screen showing any dark portion of content). If you approached a screen closer than they wanted they would shoo you away. They allowed close inspection of the off-angle demo but it was only showing bright content. This may end up being a problem for them on the show-room floor...

Come on Samsung. -_-

Btw, I'm hoping by end of year we get Sony refresh of their OLED set with HFR, VFR, and other new features sets. Need a new set 65"+ for bedroom.

Also, for people that think I just hate Samsung I don't they have put out an amazing OLED set in the past which I had the pleasure of using and was simply blown away. Just very disappointed with the way they have been confusing consumers these past few years and even coming up with every which name under the sun for what is pretty much LCD with new shine of paint.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Samsung was definitely a dud for me, with Sony being the standout at CES. LG didn't do bad either with the W7 looking pretty slick.

The only concern I have with the A1E OLED is the Android OS. ZD9 has issues where Android would freeze which means you have to turn off the TV from the mains before being able to turn it back on in a functional state. Hopefully Android N or whatever it's going to be called will be stable. If only Sony could borrow WebOS from LG on top of their panels, heh.
 

TLZ

Banned
You are absolutely right and it would not be a bad idea if someone created a thread on this type of procedure -

bought a new set? this is what you do the 1st 2 weeks--

detailing for a neophyte exactly what to look for with a crummy set, it seems that so many have the panel lottery nowadays, I imagine this would be a big help for some folks. Anyway just a thought.

Good idea. I hope someone does this. I'm new to oled and its calibration and I've no Idea what all these words mean; break in etc.

I'd love to have a post for Oled noobs that details in steps what should be done.

I forgot you had an oled. We had good chats in the KS thread but that is returning and now I've gone on the oled bandwagon :)
 

GeoNeo

I disagree.
Samsung was definitely a dud for me, with Sony being the standout at CES. LG didn't do bad either with the W7 looking pretty slick.

The only concern I have with the A1E OLED is the Android OS. ZD9 has issues where Android would freeze which means you have to turn off the TV from the mains before being able to turn it back on in a functional state. Hopefully Android N or whatever it's going to be called will be stable. If only Sony could borrow WebOS from LG on top of their panels, heh.
Yeah I hate Android OS, Firefox OS (Panasonic) on TV's. Sony actually made pretty decent OS themselves hell they have freaking PS4 OS they could easily build off wish they did not go with third party option that will never be as optimised as in-house.

WebOS is by far the best TV OS I've used.

On the Subject of OS for TV's reminds me of how the Panasonic Plasma panels had AMAZING low input delay when they used their own OS (Not all models lower end models mostly) I could hit all my 1 frame combos go to tournaments and have no problem playing on low input delay tournament monitors (apart from the shitty motion res of tournament LCD's which would never touch the Plasma :p). I used the Panasonic as my tournament display and the 65" Kuro as my movies and tv show the good life, however it all went to shit when they started adding bloat to their OS and switching to Firefox OS horrible for any chance of under 1 frame of input delay. �� Side Note: People that don't have much exp with Plasma tech and look up Leo Bodnar input lag tests will always get wrong results due to the way the device could not correctly measure lag due to Plasma's sub field drive & how a picture is displayed.

That is a subject that is so overlooked by many people that buy TV's for gaming is motion res. The jump is HUGE & is like going from 30fps gaming to 60fps when you use a TV that has amazing motion res natively. This is why HFR & VFR will be game changing in the TV industry.

Very much looking forward to motion handling of Sony's OLED (they are prob the best in the industry at handling motion) & LG's new sets.
 

The_Spaniard

Netmarble
So the HDMI cables that came with the XB1 S and the PS4 Pro support HDR right? Also any recommendations on best cheapest HDMI cables I can get on Amazon that will handle everything that my new OLED65E6P can throw at them? Same question in regards to an HDMI Hub/Switch. I want to get a hub so that I can plug more things into the TV. As it stands I have 5 HDMI devices, and I'm going to need more free ports for when I get the Nintendo Switch in a couple months, as well as when I just want to plug a PC/Laptop into it.
 

longdi

Banned
Samsung was definitely a dud for me, with Sony being the standout at CES. LG didn't do bad either with the W7 looking pretty slick.

The only concern I have with the A1E OLED is the Android OS. ZD9 has issues where Android would freeze which means you have to turn off the TV from the mains before being able to turn it back on in a functional state. Hopefully Android N or whatever it's going to be called will be stable. If only Sony could borrow WebOS from LG on top of their panels, heh.

I agree about Sony Android TV OS.
Even with all the talk about their Xtreme 1Xxx processor, Z9D UI lags like the days of Android back in 2010...
 

holygeesus

Banned
So the HDMI cables that came with the XB1 S and the PS4 Pro support HDR right? Also any recommendations on best cheapest HDMI cables I can get on Amazon that will handle everything that my new OLED65E6P can throw at them? Same question in regards to an HDMI Hub/Switch. I want to get a hub so that I can plug more things into the TV. As it stands I have 5 HDMI devices, and I'm going to need more free ports for when I get the Nintendo Switch in a couple months, as well as when I just want to plug a PC/Laptop into it.

I'm using the Amazon basics cables without issue here. Do you have an amp with 4k/HDR passthrough? If so you could use that instead of an HDMI switch.
 

The_Spaniard

Netmarble
I'm using the Amazon basics cables without issue here. Do you have an amp with 4k/HDR passthrough? If so you could use that instead of an HDMI switch.

Naw, I went with the E6 in part due to the soundbar so I could forgo spending a ton of extra money on speakers and whatnot for the time being. I'm going to need the HDMI switch for now.
 

III-V

Member
Good idea. I hope someone does this. I'm new to oled and its calibration and I've no Idea what all these words mean; break in etc.

I'd love to have a post for Oled noobs that details in steps what should be done.

I forgot you had an oled. We had good chats in the KS thread but that is returning and now I've gone on the oled bandwagon :)

No I do not have an OLED (I wish), only have my Sony X800 (+ 1080p Epson 3020 PJ + 1080p LG LCD from way back) and I have some experience with the Samsung 4K (bought one and set up for my mother-in-law) I was making this suggestion to holygeebus and others who have personal experience on the newer OLEDs.

In general though, there are things every new TV should be checked for and while there will be similarities, every TV style will have some differences.

What went wrong with the KS8000?
 

BumRush

Member
Either tonight or tomorrow I'm going to sit down and refresh the OP a bit.

I plan to add:

-CES recap
-HDMI section detailing 1.4, 2.0, 2.1 etc
- "how to break in your new TV"


What else?
 

Devil

Member
Check the bullet points out in here: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

Basically, 4K at a refresh rate above 60 (120) and 8K at 60, dynamic HDR (which effectively optimizes the color, brightness, etc of each frame, not just a static approach -- HUGE deal), and "Game Mode VRR features variable refresh rate, which enables a 3D graphics processor to display the image at the moment it is rendered for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, and for reducing or eliminating lag, stutter, and frame tearing." (Basically your TV will be like a G-Sync monitor)

How these are implemented in PS5, etc are yet to be seen, but you won't be enjoying them without the 2.1 spec.

Hope that helps...

Sorry, I think you misunderstood my first post. I was asking especially about the improved refresh rate @4k, I already knew about the bullet points and I have no idea what this specific point actually means or how it would benefit PS4/PS5 gameplay in reality.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough about it and thanks for the answer nevertheless.
 

TLZ

Banned
No I do not have an OLED (I wish), only have my Sony X800 (+ 1080p Epson 3020 PJ + 1080p LG LCD from way back) and I have some experience with the Samsung 4K (bought one and set up for my mother-in-law) I was making this suggestion to holygeebus and others who have personal experience on the newer OLEDs.

In general though, there are things every new TV should be checked for and while there will be similarities, every TV style will have some differences.

What went wrong with the KS8000?
Ah OK.

I actually have the KS9500. Well I had a vertical smudge-like line on the left side and it looked especially bad when watching football. It was just stuck there. To my luck the oleds C6 and B6 are on sale and they're a $100 cheaper than my TV so I quickly got one. Got lucky there as they're usually a $1000 more here.

Hopefully I get a good panel with no issues this time.

So what I understood here, I'll hook up my oled and just leave it uncalibrated for 2 weeks then do the calibration. Ditto.

The thing with oled calibration though is that I've seen many different ones like rtings and avforums. Unsure which is the best.
 

BumRush

Member
Sorry, I think you misunderstood my first post. I was asking especially about the improved refresh rate @4k, I already knew about the bullet points and I have no idea what this specific point actually means or how it would benefit PS4/PS5 gameplay in reality.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough about it and thanks for the answer nevertheless.

A game could run at 4K at higher than 60 FPS and smoothly display it
 

holygeesus

Banned
The thing with oled calibration though is that I've seen many different ones like rtings and avforums. Unsure which is the best.

I really wouldn't copy any settings that tweak gamma like rtings ones do. The AV Forums will likely do far less 'damage' as they only do a few slight adjustments to colour. Calibrating your set to someone else's values is a bad idea generally, especially with fine 20-point gamma settings, as viewing conditions are key and no two sets are 100% alike. Those fine changes can destroy a picture if not done carefully and specific to your own viewing conditions.

The ISF Dark and Light settings are damn good out of the box on the 2016 range, and will be safer than copying. To be honest, I don't like the rtings settings at all. Contrast at 100 clips whites, for starters. You don't want to be any higher than 84 ideally.
 
Let us know if that works. I'd def try separately because that doesn't sound right.

So this got somewhat weird. Far as I can tell, simply disconnecting the ethernet cable itself seems to have 'fixed' it, as it worked when I reconnected it. Got the web browser and store to work, and subsequently downloaded Youtube.

My god. Watching Battlefront in 4K was mindblowing.
 

TLZ

Banned
I really wouldn't copy any settings that tweak gamma like rtings ones do. The AV Forums will likely do far less 'damage' as they only do a few slight adjustments to colour. Calibrating your set to someone else's values is a bad idea generally, especially with fine 20-point gamma settings, as viewing conditions are key and no two sets are 100% alike. Those fine changes can destroy a picture if not done carefully and specific to your own viewing conditions.

The ISF Dark and Light settings are damn good out of the box on the 2016 range, and will be safer than copying. To be honest, I don't like the rtings settings at all. Contrast at 100 clips whites, for starters. You don't want to be any higher than 84 ideally.

I've used their settings for the KS9500 and was good enough tbh. Also used a calibration disc later and was pretty close. Maybe oled is a different story. I also never used their 2 and 10 point settings, because like you said they're different for every person. I'll just use the calibration disc I have I guess hoping it would do.
 

BumRush

Member
So this got somewhat weird. Far as I can tell, simply disconnecting the ethernet cable itself seems to have 'fixed' it, as it worked when I reconnected it. Got the web browser and store to work, and subsequently downloaded Youtube.

My god. Watching Battlefront in 4K was mindblowing.

Probably a loose connection. It's crazy how it's almost always the easiest solution lol
 

Midas

Member
When do we normally get pricing for new models? A month before release? I'm extremely eager to see what the 2017 OLED sets will cost.
 
I agree about Sony Android TV OS.
Even with all the talk about their Xtreme 1Xxx processor, Z9D UI lags like the days of Android back in 2010...

Same. My 930D is still on Lollipop. Really hoping Marshmallow makes an improvement, though it's concerning the Z9 is still laggy with Marshmallow.
 

holygeesus

Banned
Are you talking about above whites? What white level are you specifically referring to?

Yes I'm talking about peak whites. 100 contrast loses this white detail. In fact, on my set, I start to lose it with contrast at 85. 100 on mine introduces colour tones into the whites that shouldn't be there, and blows out all detail in things like clouds. However, I am no expert on 20 point gamma and how that impacts on contrast. Again though, it emphasises why it is a bad idea to copy settings the have been made on someone else's set.
 

JMZ555

Member
I would love a dedicated thread for people who game on projectors. Not sure how many on here use projectors or are interested though.
 

Dave_6

Member
Any idea if LG is still manufacturing the 2016 models? Still possibly thinking of picking up a 65" E6 if I happen across an amazing price on one. I just don't want to wait too late till I can't find a new one.
 

holygeesus

Banned
Any idea if LG is still manufacturing the 2016 models? Still possibly thinking of picking up a 65" E6 if I happen across an amazing price on one. I just don't want to wait too late till I can't find a new one.

Doubtful. I saw a 55" E6 for £2200 yesterday which is less than I paid for my B6! :cry:
 

NYR

Member
Any idea if LG is still manufacturing the 2016 models? Still possibly thinking of picking up a 65" E6 if I happen across an amazing price on one. I just don't want to wait too late till I can't find a new one.
It is likely ending very soon just to fill existing POs. There is usually a gap between January and March where the new model TVs go into production for the new models to be in stores for April.

Keep in mind OLEDs have traditionally low yields so I don't expect them to waste a lot of raw materials and production time on last years model.
 

shockdude

Member
Yes I'm talking about peak whites. 100 contrast loses this white detail. In fact, on my set, I start to lose it with contrast at 85. 100 on mine introduces colour tones into the whites that shouldn't be there, and blows out all detail in things like clouds. However, I am no expert on 20 point gamma and how that impacts on contrast. Again though, it emphasises why it is a bad idea to copy settings the have been made on someone else's set.
I copied Rtings for my lowly Vizio D50-D1. Even with the default calibrated profile, setting contrast=50 crushes whites, but Rtings compensated for that by reducing the individual colors rather than by reducing the contrast. Their settings are certainly better than what the TV comes with, and since I'm not going to professionally calibrate a $400 TV that's good enough for me.
 

holygeesus

Banned
I copied Rtings for my lowly Vizio D50-D1. Even with the default calibrated profile, setting contrast=50 crushes whites, but Rtings compensated for that by reducing the individual colors rather than by reducing the contrast. Their settings are certainly better than what the TV comes with, and since I'm not going to professionally calibrate a $400 TV that's good enough for me.

I'm talking specifically the B6 here. I have no idea how their settings are for other sets.
 
Either tonight or tomorrow I'm going to sit down and refresh the OP a bit.

I plan to add:

-CES recap
-HDMI section detailing 1.4, 2.0, 2.1 etc
- "how to break in your new TV"


What else?

For people like me who like to read through the thread and don't understand some of the terms used, maybe a small section with terms and what they mean would be helpful. Things such as bleeding, vinigetting (?) etc

Sure we can google and what not though if no-one else thinks it's a good idea.
 

The Beard

Member
Pricing for 2016 OLEDs has been odd the past week. 7 days ago a 65" B6 was $2,999, 5 days ago it was $3,999, today it's $3,497.
 

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
Doubtful. I saw a 55" E6 for £2200 yesterday which is less than I paid for my B6! :cry:

Why :cry:? I could have bought the E6 but since 3D is dead (and never was a factor to me personally) it offers nothing over the B6 except a larger form factor (ugh). There are many vastly superior audio options so that bar is just in the way.
 

sector4

Member
Same. My 930D is still on Lollipop. Really hoping Marshmallow makes an improvement, though it's concerning the Z9 is still laggy with Marshmallow.
Generally it isn't. If it's doing a lot of processing (i.e. HDR) the menu's can be a bit slower, but I've never experienced a hard shutdown or anything like that in the time I've owned it.
 

NYR

Member
Why :cry:? I could have bought the E6 but since 3D is dead (and never was a factor to me personally) it offers nothing over the B6 except a larger form factor (ugh). There are many vastly superior audio options so that bar is just in the way.
Are you kidding - "larger form factor"? This is garbage, There is no one who thinks the B6 design looks better than the E6 design. The E6 is the best TV design in quite some time.
 

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I'm hoping that Sony OLED keeps 3D, I'm up for a 65'' but still want to enjoy all of my 3D Blu-rays.
 

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Highly unlikely considering the panels are being supplied by LG

Yea, was thinking the same. They have kept the feature on their high-end TVs for the last few years so I'm holding out a sliver of hope they keep it for this TV.
 

BumRush

Member
For people like me who like to read through the thread and don't understand some of the terms used, maybe a small section with terms and what they mean would be helpful. Things such as bleeding, vinigetting (?) etc

Sure we can google and what not though if no-one else thinks it's a good idea.

Sure, I can do that!
 
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