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Terri Schiavo has died.

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xsarien

daedsiluap
Heezzi said:
The 5% of my brain I use is perfectly fine. If people can survice shotgun blasts to the head and recovering, anything can happen.

Anything? ANYTHING? Oh boy, I can't wait to grow wings and a second pair of arms, commuting to work would be much easier, and I can play Lumines and eat at the same time.

w00t.

Anyway, get a clue, and maybe stop posting for five minutes and go to Google News. When you search for "Terri Schiavo" you'll find out that there are large parts of her brain that are just gone; replaced with spinal fluid. A survivor of a bullet to the brain, by contrast, clearly has damage to a very specific area that doesn't do nearly as much damage.
 

mrmyth

Member
Hitokage said:
So actively killing her is better than letting her go on her own? Who is deciding fate here?

You know, I can't really blame you for being so utterly misinformed... the media has been dissembling this story as much as it can.


Fuck yeah you can blame him. There are multiple easily found impartial sources. This is willful ignorance. Bill Cosby is going to be pissed.
 

Heezzi

Banned
ge-man said:
First of all, this case isn't merely an example of a man determing her "fate". He went to court to prove that she did infact wish for the plug to be pulled if she ended up in a vegetative state.

Second of all, letting her choke to death is better than pulling her feeding tube? I'm beginning to think that you are trying to provoke us with stupid ideas.

Eg. It's better than dehydrating for 13 days. 13 days is torture.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Heezzi said:
Eg. It's better than dehydrating for 13 days. 13 days is torture.

Actually dehydrating would be torture to someone conscious and cognizant. To a mind that is already gone dehyration is simply a chemical process by which the brain and associated other parts of the body are no longer the necessary fluids and blood salts they need. There is no pain to process because that part of the mind is no longer functioning.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
mrmyth said:
Fuck yeah you can blame him. There are multiple easily found impartial sources. This is willful ignorance. Bill Cosby is going to be pissed.
Well, I'd rather not go into a "the american public is letting themselves turned into stupid uninformed serville pawns" rant here... ;)
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Hitokage said:
Your second sentence did not make up for the fact that the first was totally wrong.

it was a joke, since he was obviously referencing the misconception that we only use a low percentage of our brains... and on top of that, got the commonly quoted percentage wrong. But oh well.
 
xsarien said:
Anything? ANYTHING? Oh boy, I can't wait to grow wings and a second pair of arms, commuting to work would be much easier, and I can play Lumines and eat at the same time.

w00t.

Anyway, get a clue, and maybe stop posting for five minutes and go to Google News. When you search for "Terri Schiavo" you'll find out that there are large parts of her brain that are just gone; replaced with spinal fluid. A survivor of a bullet to the brain, by contrast, clearly has damage to a very specific area that doesn't do nearly as much damage.

Yes, but her brain is still bigger than my dog's and I wouldn't kill my dog for no reason now, would I?

People have actually used the above logic on me, then immediately claimed that science doesn't provide all the answers, and since we aren't Terri Schiavo, we don't know what's going on in her mind. While it's true that you can't detect exactly what a person's thinking by conducting neurological tests, you certainly can tell when that person's not thinking at all...or when the majority of their brain's liquid.

The religious right: claiming science is wrong, yet trying to use it in debate and mangling it beyond recognition at the same time.
 

Bregor

Member
Terry Shiavo's body was a shell, a husk. The person who was there died 15 years ago, and no medical miracle would have brought her back.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/25/schiavo.qa/index.html

Why have the Schindlers said Michael Schiavo should not be their daughter's guardian?

They believe that there is a conflict of interest because Michael Schiavo lives with his girlfriend and has two children with her. They have contended that he cannot uphold the best interest of his wife while living in what they describe as an adulterous relationship. Michael Schiavo has said he is removing his wife's feeding tube as part of keeping his promise to her that he would not allow artificial means to preserve her life. He has stated that his new family does not affect his feelings for his wife because he can love more than one person.


Don't get me wrong because I do my best to respect other folks religious beliefs... but come the fuck on.....
 
Yes, but her brain is still bigger than my dog's and I wouldn't kill my dog for no reason now, would I?

Haha, they wouldn't put their dog to sleep if the only way it could survive was through a feeding tube and it just looked around and made noises every once in a while? Whatever.

edit: ^ Euthanasia, OMG
 

Bregor

Member
cubicle47b said:
Haha, they wouldn't put their dog to sleep if the only way it could survive was through a feeding tube and it just looked around and made noises every once in a while?

I had to put my dog to sleep last year, and it's brain was totally intact. It hurt having to do so, but I had no doubt that I was doing the correct thing.
 
OpinionatedCyborg said:
Yes, but her brain is still bigger than my dog's and I wouldn't kill my dog for no reason now, would I?

Why must people use retarded logic over and over?

It's not about the size of the left over brain. It's about the functionality that the brain provides. Your dog's tiny brain is all intact, providing complete functionality, such as thinking (as much as dogs can) and feeling. Terri's brain is missing the chunks that would make her function as a thinking and feeling human being.

Now do everyone a favor and put your little brain to rest for a while.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
a question I have for you guys, if any of you were to enter a state where you were for all intents a vegetable, you had very little awareness and would never be able to truly communicate or interact, would you want to live like that or would you want to be put out of it?
 
OpinionatedCyborg wasn't making that comment, he was reciting it for our amusement.

a question I have for you guys, if any of you were to enter a state where you were for all intents a vegetable, you had very little awareness and would never be able to truly communicate or interact, would you want to live like that or would you want to be put out of it?

Without a doubt, yes.
 

Do The Mario

Unconfirmed Member
borghe said:
a question I have for you guys, if any of you were to enter a state where you were for all intents a vegetable, you had very little awareness and would never be able to truly communicate or interact, would you want to live like that or would you want to be put out of it?

Die

My Organs are better of helping other people, It would be also selfish to deny someone a hospital bed for the rest of my life.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
borghe said:
a question I have for you guys, if any of you were to enter a state where you were for all intents a vegetable, you had very little awareness and would never be able to truly communicate or interact, would you want to live like that or would you want to be put out of it?

The missus and I had this conversation already. We both areed that if we were in a meidcally diagnosed coma that we'd want to be kept alive... however a medically diagnosed vegetable state... no...there GAF is now our witness.
 
cubicle47b said:
Haha, they wouldn't put their dog to sleep if the only way it could survive was through a feeding tube and it just looked around and made noises every once in a while? Whatever.

edit: ^ Euthanasia, OMG

Until you've seen the Terri Schiavo's craniometry documentation, your opinion is sadly useless--not surprsing considering that your jungenliebe is undersized, although you'll be glad to know your hochmut is above average.

Phrenology.jpg

craniad.jpg
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
DarienA said:
The missus and I had this conversation already. We both areed that if we were in a meidcally diagnosed coma that we'd want to be kept alive... however a medically diagnosed vegetable state... no...there GAF is now our witness.
sorry.. misread that... nm.
 

mrmyth

Member
borghe said:
a question I have for you guys, if any of you were to enter a state where you were for all intents a vegetable, you had very little awareness and would never be able to truly communicate or interact, would you want to live like that or would you want to be put out of it?


So lemme get this straight - I'm laying down and surrounded by young women in white pantyhose and I can't fap? Forever? I'll take dehydration please.
 

ge-man

Member
borghe said:
a question I have for you guys, if any of you were to enter a state where you were for all intents a vegetable, you had very little awareness and would never be able to truly communicate or interact, would you want to live like that or would you want to be put out of it?

I would prefer to die if there was no hope that I could ever return to my full self. What us am I as a vegetable--I'll just be burden on my family and society.
 
mrmyth said:
So lemme get this straight - I'm laying down and surrounded by young women in white pantyhose and I can't fap? Forever? I'll take dehydration please.

People occasionally emerge from comas with their mental faculties in tact. People rarely emerge from a PVS and those that do aren't exactly all there.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
BTW Hezzi you mentioned that the husband was just using he said she said when he said that she didn't want to live on tubes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo#Schiavo.27s_condition

Although his wife never wrote a living will expressing a wish to refuse nutrition or medical treatment if disabled, Mr. Schiavo says they had conversations which make him sure she would not want to continue living in such a state; both Michael's brother and sister-in-law (Terri's best friend) testified in support of this claim. Michael Schiavo recalled Terri saying, "I don't want to be kept alive on a machine."

Not he said, she said... the two folks referenced actually testified including the best friend that this was said to.
 

mrmyth

Member
OpinionatedCyborg said:
People occasionally emerge from comas with their mental faculties in tact. People rarely emerge from a PVS and those that do aren't exactly all there.


It was a joke man. My family already has orders to yank my ass if my brain is gone.


I had to talk my wife out of killing me if it was just a coma.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
You know what gets me the most? Half the world protested against the invasion of Iraq and it didn't get them shit. A handful of loons are up in arms over Terri and they want the fucking Constitution trampled in order to get their way. To them I quote Bob Dylan:

How does it feeeeeeel?
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
King Jippo said:
Yes, because these two incidents are so intimately related. Nice try though. Actually, that was really a lazy, half-assed try.

You are right, they aren't related. One's an atrocity, the other one's not. You can decide which is which yourself.
 
mrroboto said:
gotta disagree with you here darien. she didn't die by accident. she killed herself by sticking her fingers down her mouth a few too many times. it caused an electrolyte imbalance in her body and triggered a heart attack and then caused her brain damage from oxygen caught off to her brain.

i really have no sympathy for her.

i pray that God forgives her for killing herself.

and i don't say this to start a flame war. it's just that many people including the media are leaving out that fact.

kinda like a person who smokes and then gets lung cancer and dies. they brought it on themselves. hard to have sympathy for that.

I actually agree with this. If her parent loved her as much as they claimed, they would have pulled th plug MUCH sooner. Instead they prolonged her suffering for 10+ years.

She never had a chance of recovery. But i also realize she did this to herself, so in a fashion it's poetic justice. Her vanity killed her, that is what fuels bulemia. Flat out vanity.

I had a really good friend who was in a similar situation. He was hit by a drunk driver while crossing the street to my house. He was in a similar state, they ended up pulling the plug and ending his suffering. I hated them and the driver for killing my friend, but I realized they made the biggest display of love for their child. They pulled the life support and let him drift into sleep and ended his suffering.

It's been 12 years and the memory of him getting hit by that truck still haunts me.

RIP Brian Marsh... you were my best friend, and in your short life you touched a lot of lives. You are and will always be missed.
 

mrmyth

Member
Outcast2004 said:
I actually agree with this. If her parent loved her as much as they claimed, they would have pulled th plug MUCH sooner. Instead they prolonged her suffering for 10+ years.

Once again, she did not have the brain parts to suffer. For 15 years she's felt about as much pain as the letter 'H'.
 

darscot

Member
mrmyth said:
Once again, she did not have the brain parts to suffer. For 15 years she's felt about as much pain as the letter 'H'.

This comment is one that really screws with me. I agree she can't feel shit and is basically dead. But for some reason I feel that living like this is punishment. But if she isn't aware how is punishment. It's a total contradiction. I dont really believe in heaven or hell but I believe that she must feel sorrow knowing what this is doing to her parents. But she doesn't know anything it's a total mind fuck.
 
Being in a vegatative/brain dead state for 15 years IS suffering.

Who are you to say she didn't feel pain? There isn't a autoposy yet to say just how much of her brain was destroyed by her self-induced state from the spinal fluid entering the brain.

I already have expressed to my loved ones that if I were to ever be put in that position, let me die.

there is a major difference between just simply existing and living.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Some new choice quotes:

Dubya:
"The essence of civilization is that the strong have a duty to protect the weak,"
"I urge all those who honor Terri Schiavo to continue to work to build a culture of life where all Americans are welcomed and valued and protected, especially those who live at the mercy of others."
Delay:
"This loss happened because our legal system did not protect the people who need protection most, and that will change."
"The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior, but not today. Today we grieve, we pray, and we hope to God this fate never befalls another."
Some jerk named Sensenbrenner:
"Terri's will to live should serve as an inspiration and impetus for action,"
 

mrmyth

Member
Outcast2004 said:
Being in a vegatative/brain dead state for 15 years IS suffering.

Who are you to say she didn't feel pain? There isn't a autoposy yet to say just how much of her brain was destroyed by her self-induced state from the spinal fluid entering the brain.

I already have expressed to my loved ones that if I were to ever be put in that position, let me die.

there is a major difference between just simply existing and living.



When you have a flat EEG, you don't feel shit. There is no 'you' to feel it. Now, her body's pain receptors may have still been functioning, but who the fuck were they talking to? There's was no home base to send all that pain to.
There will be an autopsy. But until then we have brain scans that show lake where there should be land. She didn't suffer. She died 15 years ago.
 

m0dus

Banned
gotta disagree with you here darien. she didn't die by accident. she killed herself by sticking her fingers down her mouth a few too many times. it caused an electrolyte imbalance in her body and triggered a heart attack and then caused her brain damage from oxygen caught off to her brain.

I think the best part of this thread is the misguided idiots claiming she got what she deserved. Because she was bulemic? Holy shit, did I miss the Klan rally?

Bulemia --seriously, medically diagnosed bulemia--is not the result of overzealous vanity, or an attempt to lose a couple of pounds around the waist. It is afairly common disease, a disorder (usually of young women) characterized by a dysmorphic perceptions of one's own body. It also has major roots in depression, as well. It has severe psychological, social and neuroochemical underpinnings, some of which we still do not understand (because it can be the result of a singular disorder, or multiple disorders). To assume that she somehow deserved ending up in a persistant vegitative state before dying of catastrophic organ failure because she 'did this to herself' honestly, sounds as fucking stupid as can be. IMO, it's akin to, say, claiming that a 1942 Polish jew belonged in an oven 'cause she couldn't run fast enough. She had a heart attack because the constant purging made her hypokalemic, which caused a cardiac conduction abnormality resulting in an arrythmia. Hardly attempted 'suicide' as some of you seem bent on assuming. Comparing her to a smoker is idiotic--a person has to make a choice to start smoking (unless, of course, we're talking about the circumstance where a person develops lung cancer after long term exposure to second hand smoke? hardly altruistic either, eh?). People with Bulemia have a negative self-evaluation that is disproportionately influenced by body shape and weight. It is one that can be shaped by everything from social pressures to child-abuse, depression, and neurochemical imbalances. It is not something they can easily control, because their very perceptions of THEMSELVES, and their self-worth, are the problem.
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
m0dus said:
I think the best part of this thread is the misguided idiots claiming she got what she deserved. Because she was bulemic? Holy shit, did I miss the Klan rally?

Bulemia is not the result of overzealous vanity, or an attempt to lose a couple of pounds around the waist. It is afairly common, medically diagnosed disease, a disorder characterized by a dysmorphic perceptions of one's own body. It also has major roots in depression, as well. It has severe psychological, social and physiochemical underpinnings, some of which we still do not understand. To assume that she 'did this to herself' just because she wanted to 'look good,' or in order to KILL herself, honestly, sounds as fucking stupid as can be. And claiming she somehow 'deserved what she got' is akin to, say, claiming that a 1942 Polish jew belonged in an oven 'cause he couldn't run fast enough. She had a heart attack because the constant purging made her hypokalemic, which caused a cardiac conduction abnormality resulting in an arrythmia. Hardly attempted 'suicide' as some of you seem bent on assuming. Comparing her to a smoker is idiotic--a person has to make a choice to start smoking (unless, of course, we're talking about the circumstance where a person develops lung cancer after long term exposure to second hand smoke? hardly altruistic either, eh?). People with Bulemia have a negative self-evaluation that is disproportionately influenced by body shape and weight. It is one that can be shaped by everything from social pressures to child-abuse. It is not something they can easily control, because their very perceptions of THEMSELVES, and their self-worth, are the problem.


I'd wager 90% of women give themselves self-depreciating remarks. That is their nature. Hence the need for significant others to always remind them how good they look, how nice they smell. Things like that. I really can't offer compassion to a person who does this. Just like suicide victims, they take the 'easy way' out. To achieve things in life, things that are worth obtaining, you need hard work and dedication, not the quick index finger down the windpipe. So no, we are right in our opinion of this whole situation. She, in essense, killed herself. I don't consider it being heartless, just a non partial view to this. Boils down to the fact she was in that predicament because of her actions, not anyone else's. That is the argument I think people such as myself are making.
 

xexex

Banned
mrroboto said:
gotta disagree with you here darien. she didn't die by accident. she killed herself by sticking her fingers down her mouth a few too many times. it caused an electrolyte imbalance in her body and triggered a heart attack and then caused her brain damage from oxygen caught off to her brain.

i really have no sympathy for her.

i pray that God forgives her for killing herself.

and i don't say this to start a flame war. it's just that many people including the media are leaving out that fact.

kinda like a person who smokes and then gets lung cancer and dies. they brought it on themselves. hard to have sympathy for that.


Oh My God, I cannot believe you said these things. what a heartless cruel, bastardly thing to say. maybe you are the one who needs God's forgiveness for saying these things.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Agent Icebeezy said:
I'd wager 90% of women give themselves self-depreciating remarks. That is their nature. Hence the need for significant others to always remind them how good they look, how nice they smell. Things like that. I really can't offer compassion to a person who does this. Just like suicide victims, they take the 'easy way' out. To achieve things in life, things that are worth obtaining, you need hard work and dedication, not the quick index finger down the windpipe. So no, we are right in our opinion of this whole situation. She, in essense, killed herself. I don't consider it being heartless, just a non partial view to this. Boils down to the fact she was in that predicament because of her actions, not anyone else's. That is the argument I think people such as myself are making.

And just like SOME suicide victims those diagnosed with bulimin nervosa are mentally disturbed... you guys need to learn the difference between the disorder of bulimia nervosa vs. some girl just throwing up to keep herself slim. Bulimia is a mental and psychological disorder. She was not in complete control of her faculties.

Read up on it.

But let's get past that... the basic thing is that as human beings we should show compassion for our fellows regardless of what situation brought their death about... yes.. understand that she contributed but that doesn't mean you walk around saying good riddance she got what she deserved. I simply don't understand some of you kids today.
 

m0dus

Banned
Agent Icebeezy said:
I'd wager 90% of women give themselves self-depreciating remarks. That is their nature. Hence the need for significant others to always remind them how good they look, how nice they smell. Things like that. I really can't offer compassion to a person who does this. Just like suicide victims, they take the 'easy way' out. To achieve things in life, things that are worth obtaining, you need hard work and dedication, not the quick index finger down the windpipe. So no, we are right in our opinion of this whole situation. She, in essense, killed herself. I don't consider it being heartless, just a non partial view to this. Boils down to the fact she was in that predicament because of her actions, not anyone else's. That is the argument I think people such as myself are making.


That's one hell of a stretch, I'm sorry, but it is a remarkably ignorant statement. Understand that there's a distinct difference between the disorder of Bulimia Nervosa (which terri had), and Bulemic BEHAVIOR, which certain, say, vain supermodels might exhibit. One is a serious medical condition, the other is not. Keep in mind that you, as an (assumidly) normal person are able to judge your actions properly, and make adjustments to your behavior for your own good. You have the faculties for self improvement and true self-preservation. Now, imagine that, by either environmental or neurological causes, you no longer are able to. You can no longer percieve yourself as other 'normal' people do. Your self ideal is so distorted and unattainable, that any attempt at introspection results in you falling further into depression. It is a disorder characterized by chemical imbalances (namely, the neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine, which have been linked to the control of hunger as well as depression, anxiety, and obsessions, physical activity, and reward) as well as social influences, both of which are completely beyond your control.

Do you deserve the fate this woman had? Hardly.
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
No one said 'good riddance' I'm just not up in arms about this like most. It's her life, she did as she chose. I live mine, two different things. There is always an RIP from me whenever somebody passes, but that is where it ends
 

m0dus

Banned
Agent Icebeezy said:
No one said 'good riddance' I'm just not up in arms about this like most. It's her life, she did as she chose. I live mine, two different things. There is always an RIP from me whenever somebody passes, but that is where it ends

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? She did't really have much of a 'choice'. Neither in life, nor in death, it seems.

However, I would argue that she was a vegetable. However, the fact that an MRI was never performed is just . . . baffling. Such results could have eliminated much of the controversy over a possible 'recovery' (which, simply, was for all intents and purposes, impossible.) Almost to the level of malpractice on the part of her doctors, and guardian misconduct on the part of her husband.
 
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