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[Alx]

So many people here are jumping to conclusions already, ready to blame "multicultural society" or assuming the ethnicity of the attacker… forgetting that the latest attacks in Germany were handled by locals.

 

[Tesseract]

It’s been years, otherwise I’d have something for you. Not sure what to offer, but some strong search engine Kung Fu and the right terms should help.

Perhaps someone else has something handy, as I’ve never really adopted the mindset of building a library of this stuff and saving it. Maybe I should change that.

ja it's def true, i have some of the older docs archived in an insurance container

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

It was for the people fooled by it. So he’s right, to an extent.

To elaborate for anyone wondering, if you dig deep enough, which basically amounts to sifting through publicly available documents and speeches, even from the U.N., because these people aren’t shy, you can find all sorts of references pertaining to population replacement being a goal.

This was a really nice way to package it for public consumption.

Alex Jones?

 

[Tesseract]

Alex Jones?

jc denton

 

[-Arcadia-]

Alex Jones?

 

[ExpandKong]

So many people here are jumping to conclusions already, ready to blame "multicultural society" or assuming the ethnicity of the attacker… forgetting that the latest attacks in Germany were handled by locals.

I mean...statistically speaking, when someone drives a vehicle into a crowd in a European country, AND the news doesn't tell you right out that it's a white guy? Can't really say I blame people for jumping to conclusions.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

I mean...statistically speaking, when someone drives a vehicle into a crowd in a European country, AND the news doesn't tell you right out that it's a white guy? Can't really say I blame people for jumping to conclusions.

Did you ever think that maybe they just dont know?

 

[ExpandKong]

Did you ever think that maybe they just dont know?

No.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Maybe consider it then? This attack was this morning and from what info we do know, the suspect is most likely a native German..

 

[ExpandKong]

Maybe consider it then? This attack was this morning and from what info we do know, the suspect is most likely a native German..

The driver was arrested at the scene. They know who he is.

 

[Alx]

I mean...statistically speaking, when someone drives a vehicle into a crowd in a European country, AND the news doesn't tell you right out that it's a white guy? Can't really say I blame people for jumping to conclusions.

Applying statistics to an individual case is the very definition of prejudice.
Yeah they know who the guy is. He's a 29 yo German man, born and raised in that 7000 inhabitants village, living with his grandmother. There's really no reason to call for information on "his ethnicity".

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I guess that dude was just mentally ill.

 

[Dontero]

You miss my point. It has nothing to do with intent. The fact some one is committing an atrocity like this speaks of mental illness. This is not the model of sanity, to commit murder on the grounds of whatever belief.

You are naive as hell. You base your whole reasoning that killing someone is illogical when it is perfectly logical in many circumstances.
We talk about madness when outcome in not logical. When some white kid takes a gun and goes to school and has long history of making random angry rants about everything randomly it means he is probably insane.

On other hand Brevik planned event for months, knew exactly what he is doing and his goal was very logical.

When someone follows doctrine, is organized and works normally outside of that one subject it means he is not mad or crazy.

Coulter’s law. If it was a white person, they’d be tripping all over themselves to tell us. If it was somebody else, they’d probably still release the information.

Yeah. When that previous event happened and dude killed 11 people instantly it was said he as white german and even linked him to far right groups... Dude was probably german but muslim ethnicity.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Applying statistics to an individual case is the very definition of prejudice.
Yeah they know who the guy is. He's a 29 yo German man, born and raised in that 7000 inhabitants village, living with his grandmother. There's really no reason to call for information on "his ethnicity".

Pattern recognition and anticipation of outcome based on previous common events or information is a deeply ingrained, vital survival instincts and one of our species greatest strengths that allowed us to conquer the planet.

Just because it sometimes leads to the wrong conclusion that hurts peoples feelings, doesn't mean that the people jumping to that conclusion don't have very good reason to and are usually aware of a very real problem.

 

[Alx]

Pattern recognition and anticipation of outcome based on previous common events or information is a deeply ingrained, vital survival instincts and one of our species greatest strengths that allowed us to conquer the planet.

Doesn't mean you have to trust that instinct for everything. Basing everything on pattern recognition is also the root of racism, xenophobia, sexism and all kinds of discriminations. One of the "so great" features of our developed minds is also being able to reach meta-cognition and realizing there are flaws in our common learning abilities. Which is why we also have moral values that tell us that prejudice is bad.
In that specific case, there is no benefit to following our lower instincts that shout us "it's a public attack so it must be a Muslim". You won't risk your life by waiting for a complete investigation on the case.

Just because it sometimes leads to the wrong conclusion that hurts peoples feelings, doesn't mean that the people jumping to that conclusion don't have very good reason to and are usually aware of a very real problem.

Yeah, if only it was only about hurting people's feelings... as if Germany didn't have several casualties recently because someone had prejudice against the very people some here are suspecting now without any solid reason.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

The real issue here isn't what race the person was. The real issue here is CARS! Cars are evil. Evil I tell you. And they should be banned worldwide. Oh look at me, I'm a vehicle and I like to poison the atmosphere and kill people! Woo hoo, look how fast I can go weeeeeeeee! See those stripes on my front? Go faster stripes bruh. They really help when I'm mowing down crowds of innocent people. Wake up sheeple! Cars are the true enemy, and they must be stopped at all costs!

 

[ExpandKong]

Doesn't mean you have to trust that instinct for everything. Basing everything on pattern recognition is also the root of racism, xenophobia, sexism and all kinds of discriminations.

 

[slugbahr]

Basing everything on pattern recognition is also the root of racism, xenophobia, sexism and all kinds of discriminations.

It's also the basis of the gambling industry.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Doesn't mean you have to trust that instinct for everything. Basing everything on pattern recognition is also the root of racism, xenophobia, sexism and all kinds of discriminations. One of the "so great" features of our developed minds is also being able to reach meta-cognition and realizing there are flaws in our common learning abilities. Which is why we also have moral values that tell us that prejudice is bad.
In that specific case, there is no benefit to following our lower instincts that shout us "it's a public attack so it must be a Muslim". You won't risk your life by waiting for a complete investigation on the case.



Yeah, if only it was only about hurting people's feelings... as if Germany didn't have several casualties recently because someone had prejudice against the very people some here are suspecting now without any solid reason.

Just because the behavior of arseholes and criminals can be partially explained by broad, biology based, instinctive behavioral norms, doesnt mean that the those normal reactions and instincts are inherrantly wrong or faulty.

It just means that arseholes and criminals are human too.

 

[Alx]

Just because the behavior of arseholes and criminals can be partially explained by broad, biology based, instinctive behavioral norms, doesnt mean that the those normal reactions and instincts are inherrantly wrong or faulty.

It just means that arseholes and criminals are human too.

Prejudice isn't specific to arseholes and criminals. Like you said, it's hardwired in our brains : we all have a natural tendency to be hostile towards things that we're unfamiliar with, precisely because our instincts try to identify a comfort zone and stay there. It doesn't mean it's always a good thing to do. To give another example that maybe won't get a rolleye reaction this time, common superstition is just pattern recognition used for the wrong reasons. "good stuff happened while I was wearing my blue socks, so I'll always wear them now", "bad stuff happened each time I saw a cat, so I hate cats".
Being able to analyze our way of thinking and understanding the way things really work instead of trusting our gut feeling is the basis of modern western civilization (starting from XVIIIth century Enlightenment). It means going one step further in abstract reasoning.

 

[ExpandKong]

To give another example that maybe won't get a rolleye reaction this time, common superstition is just pattern recognition used for the wrong reasons. "good stuff happened while I was wearing my blue socks, so I'll always wear them now", "bad stuff happened each time I saw a cat, so I hate cats".
Being able to analyze our way of thinking and understanding the way things really work instead of trusting our gut feeling is the basis of modern western civilization (starting from XVIIIth century Enlightenment). It means going one step further in abstract reasoning.

I see, and how does that reasoning transfer over to “The last 49 times someone plowed a vehicle into a crowd of people the driver was a middle eastern immigrant, so it’s safe to assume that this time that’s also the case?”

You're trying to equate statistical facts with superstition. It’s silly.

I’m not saying to round up all the brown people and ship them back from whence they came.

How far are people willing to go to ignore statistics because they’re worried someone will call them a bigot?

 

[evolvaer]

As mentioned above, terrorism has to be linked to an ideology. If you kill people for the sake of a country, a religion, a political view, it's terrorism. If you kill people because you like killing, or hate your life, or are having hallucinations, you're a "regular" murderer.



The car thing happened during "Rosenmontag", so it was indeed yesterday.

I respectfully disagree. Even if you are killing for an idealogy, that is not a sane thing. Your description of terrorism just put every member or a government military organization under that blanket terrorism. Willing to kill for an idealogy? Thats every military organization in the history of humanity.

Again, you reserve mote graceful terms for members of your tribe.

 

[evolvaer]

I see, and how does that reasoning transfer over to “The last 49 times someone plowed a vehicle into a crowd of people the driver was a middle eastern immigrant, so it’s safe to assume that this time that’s also the case?”

You're trying to equate statistical facts with superstition. It’s silly.

I’m not saying to round up all the brown people and ship them back from whence they came.

How far are people willing to go to ignore statistics because they’re worried someone will call them a bigot?

The last 300 drone strikes on civilian gatherings have been committed by white christians from the US.

Now im not saying we should round up all white people...but..

Do you see the flaw in your logic?

 

[ExpandKong]

The last 300 drone strikes on civilian gatherings have been committed by white christians from the US.

Now im not saying we should round up all white people...but..

Do you see the flaw in your logic?

No, I don't. Based on your statistics, if a drone strike were carried out today on a civilian gathering, it would be safe to assume that it was a white American Christian. Why would one not assume that? Facts are facts, numbers are numbers.

I also didn't put a "but" at the end of my bit about rounding people up. Obviously not all immigrants are going to get behind the wheel of a car and go murder crazy. All I'm saying is that when somebody does do that, it's very likely that kind of person was responsible, based on past instances of similar events.

It's the same reason every time you hear about a school shooting on the news you immediately think of some quiet white boy.

 

[Airbus Jr]

If confirmed this guy wasnt under alcohol or any other illegal substances then hang this mutherfucker asap

Hes doing it on purposes

I have no mercy for people like this

 

[holygeesus]

Coulter’s law. If it was a white person, they’d be tripping all over themselves to tell us. If it was somebody else, they’d probably still release the information.

Which likely pegs the person that did this as a refugee. Method of attack fits too.

People choose what is readily available to them. The San Bernardino terrorists used guns.

 

[Alx]

I respectfully disagree. Even if you are killing for an idealogy, that is not a sane thing. Your description of terrorism just put every member or a government military organization under that blanket terrorism. Willing to kill for an idealogy? Thats every military organization in the history of humanity.

Well technically the only difference between regular war and "terrorist war" is the recognition of the organization they're fighting for. Countries that recognize each other status fight regular wars. All armies that fight for their independence from another country consider themselves "freedom fighters" while that country considers them "terrorists".

 

[Alx]

I see, and how does that reasoning transfer over to “The last 49 times someone plowed a vehicle into a crowd of people the driver was a middle eastern immigrant, so it’s safe to assume that this time that’s also the case?”

You're trying to equate statistical facts with superstition. It’s silly.

I'm not equating satistical facts with superstition, I was commenting on Stilton Disco 's point that finding patterns and extrapolating on them is the basis of human intellectual prowess and the reason we conquered the world. I'm pointing out that those same abilities are also the reason of superstition and discrimination. Because that natural behaviour of trusting those patterns sometimes leads to false reasoning. I'm also pointing out that being able to understand why those patterns are sometimes useful and sometimes wrong is another intellectual feature that is also a reason our civilization is at its current state, so it's important to go further than "gut feelings" and really understand them.

Now if you want to talk about statistics, my own point is "never apply statistics to individuals". Because statistics only make sense with large numbers, meaning that if there's a high probability that an attacker is a middle eastern immigrant for example, you can shout "illegal immigrant !" each time there's an attack and you'll be right more often than wrong. It doesn't make you less wrong when you're wrong though, and that's where the problem is. When you're wrong, you're being unfair towards someone, and your only excuse would be "eh, tough luck". Not only is your action morally wrong, but you don't even take the responsibility of why that judgement is wrong, putting everything on chance. It's basically intellectual laziness. And not even a useful one, since in the current situation there is zero need to jump to conclusions : you can just wait a few days for real information to be provided.

 

[Elektro Demon]

Germanistan.
I mean I have nothing against arab people or muslim people, but you Americans don't have a perception of what's happening here in Europe.
Hordes and hordes of uneducated third world people have flooded countries like Germany and Sweden. You have no go zones in most major European cities.
People that are coming here, they don't want to assimilate in any way, shape or form. They come to Germany, Sweden or other countries and get free apartments and mooch off of government welfare.
80 percent of people from these third world muslim countries don't wanna work. It's insanity. When some of these people commit a crime, like the crime in OP's post, the government supresses it.
If a white man did this, they'd be all over the news crucifying the man. But since this is commited by a muslim arab, we're gonna keep quiet about it.
I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just telling you the truth of the things in Europe.

 

[StormCell]

Germanistan.
I mean I have nothing against arab people or muslim people, but you Americans don't have a perception of what's happening here in Europe.
Hordes and hordes of uneducated third world people have flooded countries like Germany and Sweden. You have no go zones in most major European cities.
People that are coming here, they don't want to assimilate in any way, shape or form. They come to Germany, Sweden or other countries and get free apartments and mooch off of government welfare.
80 percent of people from these third world muslim countries don't wanna work. It's insanity. When some of these people commit a crime, like the crime in OP's post, the government supresses it.
If a white man did this, they'd be all over the news crucifying the man. But since this is commited by a muslim arab, we're gonna keep quiet about it.
I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just telling you the truth of the things in Europe.

As a german-american, it makes me so sad. It doesn't feel right at all, and no I don't want to hear from the local German on GAF who defends all the things going on over there...

 

[Patrick S.]

Germanistan.
I mean I have nothing against arab people or muslim people, but you Americans don't have a perception of what's happening here in Europe.
Hordes and hordes of uneducated third world people have flooded countries like Germany and Sweden. You have no go zones in most major European cities.
People that are coming here, they don't want to assimilate in any way, shape or form. They come to Germany, Sweden or other countries and get free apartments and mooch off of government welfare.
80 percent of people from these third world muslim countries don't wanna work. It's insanity. When some of these people commit a crime, like the crime in OP's post, the government supresses it.
If a white man did this, they'd be all over the news crucifying the man. But since this is commited by a muslim arab, we're gonna keep quiet about it.
I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just telling you the truth of the things in Europe.

True. The other day on the radio, they said that less than one fourth of these "cultural enrichers" are doing any kind of work. With the women, it's even worse. I think they said it's around ten percent?

 

[Alx]

When some of these people commit a crime, like the crime in OP's post, the government supresses it.

The man who commited the crime in OP's post is not "one of these people".

 

[Elektro Demon]

The man who commited the crime in OP's post is not "one of these people".

What, did I offend you or something? I have nothing against muslims or arabs. I have a lot against people forcefully coming to Europe and making it a shithole. Unfortunately, some of the people doing this happen to be Arab or muslim.

 

[Alx]

What, did I offend you or something? I have nothing against muslims or arabs. I have a lot against people forcefully coming to Europe and making it a shithole. Unfortunately, some of the people doing this happen to be Arab or muslim.

You're just trying to deflect. Why are you going on a rant against immigration-based issues, in a topic that has nothing to do with immigration ? The guy is a local German man, not some foreigner "coming from a third world country and refusing to integrate".

 

[Elektro Demon]

You're just trying to deflect. Why are you going on a rant against immigration-based issues, in a topic that has nothing to do with immigration ? The guy is a local German man, not some foreigner "coming from a third world country and refusing to integrate".

I misread the OP. I was under the impression this was commited by an immigrant.
My mistake.

 

[-Arcadia-]

What, did I offend you or something? I have nothing against muslims or arabs. I have a lot against people forcefully coming to Europe and making it a shithole. Unfortunately, some of the people doing this happen to be Arab or muslim.

Hold your ground, Elektro. Some people around here are Reset-types, and can’t handle seeing the truth written out so plainly.

Regardless of who did what, it did come up in the conversation before identity was confirmed, and is an interesting related subject.

 

[Elektro Demon]

Hold your ground, Elektro. Some people around here are Reset-types, and can’t handle seeing the truth written out so plainly.
Regardless of who did what, it did come up in the conversation before identity was confirmed, and is an interesting related subject.

There's this site that's supposed to be a heaven for snowflakes and deluded people.
https://www.resetera.com/

 

[ExpandKong]

I'm not equating satistical facts with superstition, I was commenting on Stilton Disco 's point that finding patterns and extrapolating on them is the basis of human intellectual prowess and the reason we conquered the world. I'm pointing out that those same abilities are also the reason of superstition and discrimination. Because that natural behaviour of trusting those patterns leads to false reasoning. I'm also pointing out that being able to understand why those patterns are sometimes useful and sometimes wrong is another intellectual feature that is also a reason our civilization is at its current state.

Now if you want to talk about statistics, my own point is "never apply statistics to individuals". Because statistics only make sense with large numbers, meaning that if there's a high probability that an attacker is a middle eastern immigrant for example, you can shout "illegal immigrant !" each time there's an attack and you'll be more often right than wrong. It doesn't make you less wrong when you're wrong though, and that's where the problem is. When you're wrong, you're being unfair towards someone, and your only excuse would be "eh, tough luck". Not only is your action morally wrong, but you don't even take the responsibility of why that judgement is wrong, putting everything on chance. It's basically intellectual laziness. And not even a useful one, since in the current situation there is zero need to jump to conclusions : you can just wait a few days for real information to be provided.

Who is harmed by my assumption?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

As a german-american, it makes me so sad. It doesn't feel right at all, and no I don't want to hear from the local German on GAF who defends all the things going on over there...

You are a german that immigrated here? Or are you doing that thing black americans do and call themselves african americans?

 

[StormCell]

You are a german that immigrated here? Or are you doing that thing black americans do and call themselves african americans?

Parent immigrated here.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Parent immigrated here.

If you were born here...you are American Yusuke!

 

[StormCell]

If you were born here...you are American Yusuke!

I have german citizenship. Check mate?

Seriously, most of my family is in Germany or immigrated from Germany. Are you really questioning my right to have feelings about the country most of my family is in or from?

Also, I kinda liked being called Yusuke. Still my favorite anime.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I have german citizenship. Check mate?

Seriously, most of my family is in Germany or immigrated from Germany. Are you really questioning my right to have feelings about the country most of my family is in or from?

No you can feel anyway you want to. I'm just anal about classifications.

 

[StormCell]

No you can feel anyway you want to. I'm just anal about classifications.

Probably right. I just wanted an easy way to convey how much german culture I live in even living in the US.

 

[Alx]

Who is harmed by my assumption?

Such assumptions, especially when worded in public spaces like a forum, contribute to stereotyping some communities and increasing hostility against them for wrong reasons. See example below.

I misread the OP. I was under the impression this was commited by an immigrant.
My mistake.

Might be time to think about what led you to that wrong impression. And what other wrong assumptions you could make in similar situations.

 

[Elektro Demon]

Such assumptions, especially when worded in public spaces like a forum, contribute to stereotyping some communities and increasing hostility against them for wrong reasons. See example below.



Might be time to think about what led you to that wrong impression. And what other wrong assumptions you could make in similar situations.

Oh christ I thought Arcadia was joking. There really are resetera dudes here.
What led me to that impression. There's posts in the thread about this specifically. That's what's led me to that assumption. And my own lazyness for not reading the OP fully and maybe doing some more investigation on this specific event that happened.

 

[Alx]

Oh christ I thought Arcadia was joking. There really are resetera dudes here.
What led me to that impression. There's posts in the thread about this specifically. That's what's led me to that assumption. And my own lazyness for not reading the OP fully and maybe doing some more investigation on this specific event that happened.

Which was exactly my point to ExpandKong in the message above. Throwing assumptions around spreads false interpretations, that in turn will lead to similar messages reinforcing the original error. That's exactly why it is important to be rational and rigorous in any situation, or you create vicious circles of misinformation. I don't think making sure people have the right info and don't throw unwarranted assumptions is "being like resetera".

 

[Elektro Demon]

I have too much respect for Mista to continue this pointless debate.

 

[Mista]

I see, and how does that reasoning transfer over to “The last 49 times someone plowed a vehicle into a crowd of people the driver was a middle eastern immigrant, so it’s safe to assume that this time that’s also the case?”

You're trying to equate statistical facts with superstition. It’s silly.

I’m not saying to round up all the brown people and ship them back from whence they came.

How far are people willing to go to ignore statistics because they’re worried someone will call them a bigot?

And we’re the easiest to point fingers at right? Because the media doesn’t show the white fucks that kills, rapes and all that because how could they show a white prick in that image. So its easier to point your fingers on us

Terrorism has no religion nor race and those fucks doesn’t represent the arabs nor the middle easterns. Yet its very hard to explain it to a fucking cunt like you so I’m not really going to stoop low to reach your level of retardation

Good luck with whats left in your life with that shoe brain

 

[Mista]

What, did I offend you or something? I have nothing against muslims or arabs. I have a lot against people forcefully coming to Europe and making it a shithole. Unfortunately, some of the people doing this happen to be Arab or muslim.

Interesting.