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Terrorist attack in London [up: 6 people killed, ~50 injured, 3 attackers dead]
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
A lot happened in 1989 after Rushdie wrote the Satanic Verses, which some felt was blasphemous, and ended up with people being killed and also protests around the world and book burning and bombs in the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses_controversy#Attacks
Herr Schwarz
Banned
I think it helps try to curb the hysteria. You know interesting cherry pick, there's also people in the thread saying we should do some hardcore torture and stanning for a police state.
But trying to find perspective among the hysteria, how dare they.
marcbret87
Member
That's really the issue here, the attacks are becoming more crude. We are not talking just about bombs and guns being used against civilians, we are talking about guys driving GTA-style in busy streets or a bunch of guys just attacking people at random with knifes. Anybody can pull off something like that.
hanspampel
Banned
i honestly believe you need something on the scale of WW2 and denazification of Germany.
same needs to be done for islamistic ideology
or you just leave them all completely alone and don't intervene at all in any way - not even humanitarian help (so they at least cant "blame the west" anymore). but in that case, some people have to live in a very poor world.
but all this half baked approaches do not work
Yes, by the end of the 1980s, religiously-motivated terrorism had begun to effectively supplant the politically-motivated terrorism of the first part of the decade.
TTOOLL
Member
Yep, implying they are even similar.
Why not posting how many heads have been cut off by terrorists since the 70's?? /s
Downplaying the attacks only help ISIS cause. It doesn't help people that are exposed to an imminent attack.
BlazingDarkness
Member
There is a time and a place for that kind of discussion, and I stand by my point that it's not helpful during an ongoing attack. You don't see the BBC posting graphs like this, do you?
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Yeah we gottah nursemaid them to a democracy or whatever kind of democratic system Iran has I guess...
It's just these places they come from, it's going to take trillions of money to rebuild and I don't think anyone is going to pony up for that, just more bombs.
This post is very misguided. ISIS happened when US retreat left an Iraqian government unprepared to rule the country nor fight against terrorist groups. Exactly because a lot of people were supporting this stupid idea that as soon as you leave them alone everything will be fine. This hasn't happen in the last thirty years.
And what you say now is that we should let ISIS exist and even expand and that will solve the issues?
Yoda
Member
By body-count, yes, but they weren't snooping on every single communication back then. London is also the most surveilled area in history. It would seem there need to be other methods of combating terrorism aside from police actions, but as the chart shows, it's possible to get the numbers near zero.
And not The Crusades?
yeah I clicked it. Wasn't bad. Thanks for linking anyway.
Torture doesn't achieve anything than the satisfaction of having been able to hurt another being. Please let's not go there. Trust I know it's hard. I think the most horrendous shit from time to time as well. Especially as to what I want to do to Nazis but let's not go there.
Uhh
It's very helpful. Humans have numerous biases and are easily influenced so data and context provide anchors to reality.
With regards to terrorism, data suggests that work still needs to be done but western Europe is already on a downward trend of terrorist attacks.
Bits N Pieces
Member
These eye witness reports sound fucking horrendous. Stay safe London folks 
Theres truth to it, not 100% the main reason but it does play a large part. ISIS were directly formed from the Iraq/Afghan war, the threat of these attacks here increased post war, civilians dying by our strikes is used to justify a war of West vs East by terrorists, grievance is one of the main recruitment tools to turn naive minds.
Its no surprise that when we speak of innocent lives being lost here, the defacto response by conservative muslims is 'yes this is terrible, but what about the 1000s that have died in Iraq?'. We see a thread of x amount have died in a drone strike or a wedding, and we move on, these people dont, their resentment grows. Doesnt mean they're all apologists or dangerous, it does mean the opportunity for death cults like ISIS to recruit grows.
TTOOLL
Member
Huw_Dawson
Member
I live in outer London... Bloody awful news. Hope the casualty number is low and as many lives are saved as possible.
Utterly barbaric act... We must do better to both prevent radicalization and catch plotters.
Utterly barbaric act... We must do better to both prevent radicalization and catch plotters.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
And not only that, there are real Muslims in Afghanistan, that are getting fucked over by terrorists there, and getting doubly fucked over by drone strikes from here.
So they still haven't place any protective barriers between the road and the walkways?
You know you can just fill water in these things
No. Come on, dude. This attack is RARE. I've never heard of an incident like that happening on London Bridge, especially as my house is only 2 miles away from there and I use to commute from London Bridge to home for 15 years. No need to do stuff like that, you just need to get those bastards who ever do harm. Besides, this case is classed as a terrorist act as the attacker went around stabbing people. No protective boundary is every going to stop a mad person from doing that.
I better go check my family and friends. We mostly live in the London Bridge area and commute to work, and now and again attend Borough Market.
unpopularblargh
Member
Sorry if I came off as rude. I'm not a fan of someone saying "something needs to be done" whenever these type of situations pop-up because it gives certain people an opening to say "how about a wall" or "travel ban anyone?".
Also they are doing all those things you mentioned and more. London is one of the most surveiled cities in the world. Elizabeth May comes from David Cameron's administration which was very pro-active in "combating" religious radicalism. The problem is these sort of attacks are really hard to track due to the low tech methods used by the perpetrators.
BlazingDarkness
Member
So those graphs provide a complete context of the realities of the situation? Do they show how many attempted/thwarted terrorist attacks have and are occurring? Do they show the nature of the attacks? Do they show the ideologies behind the attacks?
These graphs are reductive and are not helpful at all, conflating all of these attacks into 'terrorism' and then normalising it/ pointing out it is in a state of decline is pointless. 'Terrorism' in the 1980s was understood as something very different to what we are experiencing right now, it is entirely the context that makes these things different conversations.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Man, that woman with the top reply...
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes
Member
Can't believe someone still use the old "Assad and Maliki". The wonderful myth of Sunni marginalization strikes again. These men were so powerful that they marginalized the poor Sunni muslims in Philippines, France, England, US Libya, Egypt, Pakistan, Sweden, Spain and more, sounds reasonable alright! Let's forget Sunnis in Iraq where (and still are) overrepresented in the government, that under Maliki's corrupt administration Sunni Baathi officers where brought back to the government, that under his terms radical Sunni Islamism was allowed to grow and infiltrate the country and that Shia Muslims were still dying in much higher numbers compared to their Sunni countrymen. Let's forget there's been huge protesting from Shia citizens against the government and that they broke into the parliament buildings, quite weird when they are supposed to enjoy this mythical privilege similar to how they should be enjoying the higher poverty in their areas compared to Sunni-majority areas during and after Maliki's terms. While we're at it let's forget how the West is supporting Jihadists in Syria and Libya and pretending there isn't a blowback from it while countries Is there anything else a terrorist apologist like you want to pull out of your ass?
The Sunni Islamic world love blaming their minorities when going violent. Meanwhile you wonder why minorities in Middle East like Shia, Yezidi, Christians etc. who've been oppressed (and still are) for decades if not centuries under the wonderful Sunni rule haven't resorted to the same thing. Why are Shia and Christians in Middle East not going around doing the same thing Sunni muslims do. After all they've lived through far worse for decades in their own countries, and in the West some of them go through social alienation, poverty and alike similar to some Sunni muslims. Why aren't Coptics in Egypt or Shia in Bahrain or Saudi Arabia (two of the many Sunni countries where minorities are oppressed) blowing themselves up to kill Sunni muslims there, or heck even in the West?
The white supremacist monopoly on violence in full force in this post. You're never the bad guy, it's always expected, it's never on purpose, you're always defending yourself and you're always in the "right" with good intentions. No matter how many wars you start, no matter how many casualties coming from them, no matter the consequences for the people living there and no matter the reasons you started the wars. With those views you'd be right up there with the Dutch aristocracy during your colonial period and perhaps even a firm believer in white man's burden. God bless the white man and his noble intentions in MENA.
MiloHoffman
Member
just of matter of time this shit comes to the US sad = /
I felt a bit bad. She was just trying to be supportive.
and less people like the top reply. So quick to defend something they do not understand. It does more harm than good.
What do you believe he's doing that isn't happening already?
Yeah the bombing at the protester funeral is all kinds of weird if you're of the religious motivations crowd.
The protester had been shot by police. The funeral was attended by lots of people in government because he was a senator's son.
So the suicide bomber had to have had political motivations. His boss probably sent them to a funeral to target government officials.
At some point, you have to acknowledge these suicide attackers are capable of understanding how to recruit westerners to their cause.
Netherscourge
Banned
Hopefully the UK isn't sharing any information with Trump this time.
sazzy
Member
hydragonwarrior
Member
That's the big one. There hasn't been any big hints?
Mortimer Brewster
Member
You mean the same crusades that were started because of Muslim predations on European territory.
Honey Bunny
Member
So they still haven't place any protective barriers between the road and the walkways?
You know you can just fill water in these things
Looking forward to living like a caged animal in my home city because no one can figure out how to deal with the hardliners of a single religion.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Not for this attack, no. Makes me think it is spontaneous in response to Manchester. Remains to be seen if the perpetrators are known to intelligence.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
It wasn't a lone guy this time, it was a group so definitely plotters
Shadow Puppetry
Member
Damn, look at those Trump supporters.
Soldiussnaku
Member
I agree with your points. Especially the need for stable governments to be created, organically mind you, and not instilled. The biggest mistake, or oversight, the US did after the Iraq war was not to bother with a long term support of creating a stable country, they declared mission accpmlished and then got out post haste leading to a massive power vacum that hasn't got much better in years.. It has indirectly led to the current situation.
The thing is, the ideolgy was there before Isis and or other terrorist groups before them came in and warped the ideolgy, created a new one and used it as a weapon against everyone. You replace the ideolgy with the one that was presnt in muslim counties for decades befre the 1970's islamist movment in Iran or Eypt, a mostly peacful, workable, forward looking islamic way of life. Despite clear differnces in thinking, that way of life is present in Islamic countries today.
However I dont agree with the more you kill the more you create mentality, Isis depends on it's terrioty it has and laregely depends on the number of soliders it has. It's a terriitorial, populous terrorist outfit. If your line of thinking held true, both Nazism and commuism would have not failed and conclusively lost thier grip on the world.
Isis is much like Nazism in it's quasi politcal-religious goals. It even at the start went out and took over land in order to stregnten itself, exacly like other wannabe empires in history. Yes there are still Nazis amoung us even today however they as a whole have dimished extrmely signifcantly after WW2. They are marginlized by society.
I believe the same thing would need to happen with Isis, but of course from muslim majoirty counties, with or without backing from S.A. The ideolgy of Nazism was replaced by what current day Germany practices, less can be said for communism, but compared to what is was once, modern day Russia is unrecognizable, even more so for China.
As for your 19 year old Agfan example, the solusion is to break the cycle, which would cost a great deal of money, but it needs to be done or these attacks or ME instability will never stop. We have done it before and can do it again.
Muhammad had only one son, and he died through illness as a baby.
More people like this guy? These seemingly fake imams that pop up? No....no we don't.
Well, the Ohio State attack happened just last year (but nobody was killed)
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Wait wat
Albino_Yeti
Member
That's not true. He had 3.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
I'm just hearing about this, how many people died?
BlazingDarkness
Member
No numbers confirmed, multiple.
We are still unsure if the event is ongoing or not.