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Tesla and Toyota sign deal to build electric cars

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XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Tesla joins with Toyota to reopen Nummi plant, to collaborate on designing electric cars:

Tesla joins with Toyota to reopen Nummi plant
Tom Abate,David R. Baker, Chronicle Staff Writers
Friday, May 21, 2010

Tesla Motors announced Thursday it will use a $50 million investment from Toyota Corp. to help it buy the recently closed Nummi auto plant in Fremont and reopen it to build electric cars.

The project will bring badly needed jobs to the Bay Area and is a surprising win for the Bay Area's green economy just seven weeks after New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. laid off 4,700 unionized auto workers as its two owners, General Motors and Toyota, ended their 25-year partnership at California's last auto plant.


"Thank you for bringing this business to our state," Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said as Akio Toyoda, president of the Japanese automaker, joined Tesla chief Elon Musk at Tesla's headquarters in Palo Alto.

The plant's third incarnation - GM opened the factory in 1963 and closed it in 1982 before reviving the plant with Toyota in 1984 - helps anchor the green tech industry taking root around the region that includes solar manufacturer Solyndra and chip-based light maker Bridgelux.

Musk, who made a fortune as a co-founder of PayPal, said Tesla would initially occupy just "a little corner" of the massive factory to make 20,000 electric vehicles per year. That compares with the 500,000 or so gas-powered cars previously built at the plant.
Price not revealed

Tesla will use it to build the planned Model S, a $50,000 sedan that should enter production in mid-2012. Musk and Toyoda did not disclose the plant's sale price.


Musk said Tesla is adding staff at the rate of about 50 persons a month and already hiring former Nummi workers. It expects to have up to 1,000 people in Fremont within the next few years, in addition to roughly 400 people already in Palo Alto.

In an interview with The Chronicle, Musk said the new alliance would produce a joint Toyota-Tesla car that would be a Toyota vehicle powered by a Tesla drive-train, hitting the market before the Model S. The companies also plan to develop other electric vehicles together, he said.

Asked about his posture toward the United Auto Workers, which had represented Nummi's rank-and-file, Musk said, "on the question of the union we're neutral," adding that Tesla would neither encourage nor oppose workers organizing.

"We're thrilled," said Sergio Santos, president of UAW Local 2244, which had fought to keep Toyota in Fremont before it ceased production of gas-powered cars there April 1. "It's going to put some people back to work and bring a lot of jobs to California."
Change in emotion

State and local officials, who had crafted tax incentives, including worker training provisions and an exemption from sales taxes for new factory equipment to preserve Nummi, were as happy about Thursday's announcement as they had been crestfallen seven weeks ago.

In 2009, the federal government awarded Tesla $465 million in loans, most of it to be used opening the Model S facility.

"Once again, Nummi, like a cat, proves it has nine lives," said Alameda County Supervisor Keith Carson.

The move will help Toyota burnish its image, badly dented by recent recalls and safety concerns.

"This way, they're the good guys, keeping the plant open," said Jeremy Anwyl, chief executive officer of the Edmunds.com auto information Web site. "There's a lot of benefits for Toyota in this."

It could also further public acceptance of electric cars after years of false starts. Nissan has already started advertising its all-electric Leaf, while GM will soon introduce the Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid.

"Absolutely, it brings electric cars a little closer to the mainstream," Anwyl said of the Toyota-Tesla deal.

The deal was a blow to the Los Angeles County city of Downey, which had spent months wooing Tesla to locate its Model S plant there. But Musk said Thursday that Downey officials knew he had been considering Nummi.

The deal came together so quickly and quietly that members of the Fremont City Council showed up at the news conference only after hearing rumors of the deal and wanted to thank Musk for bringing Tesla to town.

"I don't care if they didn't talk to us, this is a very good surprise," said Fremont City Councilwoman Anu Natarajan.

Personal relationship

But the real secret behind the deal appears to have been the personal relationship struck between Toyoda, 54, and Musk, 38, after the Japanese businessman quietly visited the California entrepreneur about six weeks ago at his home in Southern California.

Toyoda, who had worked at Nummi in the early days of the joint venture with GM, said Thursday that he "learned much about working in America (there) so I feel a personal attachment to the plant."

As Musk told it, the two men spent a day talking and driving around the Los Angeles area in a Tesla Roadster, where, as Toyoda said, "Simply put, I felt the wind, the wind of the future."

The result was a whirlwind deal, with many details still private, to put Toyota's mass manufacturing muscle behind Tesla's design, marketing and technical expertise, to help the money-losing California carmaker - which is in the midst of putting together an initial public offering on Wall Street worth up to $100 million - cement its position as the leader in a nascent market for electric cars.

"He really sees value in understanding how a fast-moving Silicon Valley startup operates," Musk said of Toyoda, adding: "He's sort of looking at this and saying, 'We need to go back and remember what it's like to be a startup.' "


Chronicle columnist Andrew S. Ross contributed to this report.

Fremont auto plant chronology

1963: General Motors opens plant in Fremont.

1978: The GM plant builds 330,558 cars and trucks, its largest annual production.

1979: Employment at the Fremont GM plant peaks at 6,800.

1982: GM closes the factory.

1984: The plant reopens as New United Motor Manufacturing Inc., a joint venture between Toyota and GM. On Dec. 18, a Nova is the first car to roll off the assembly line.

1985: Nummi's 2,470 employees manufacture 64,764 vehicles.

2002: Employment at the plant hits 5,739.

2006: Production at the Nummi plant peaks at 428,632 cars and trucks.

2009: GM pulls out of the partnership.

2010: Plant closes in April. In May, Toyota invests $50 million in Tesla Motors, which will reopen part of the plant to build electric cars.

Tesla Model S:
mn-tesla21_PHmod_0501710339.jpg


Elon Musk and Akio Toyoda cement the deal between Tesla and Toyota to make electric cars:
bu-bb_weekreview_0501710355.jpg

Tesla currently produces just one electric model, the Roadster:

800px-Tesla_Roadster.JPG
 

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
Every now and then we read a story on how an electric car is being manufactured, or on sale.
When are we gonna see electric cars in mass production?
I haven't seen a single one, my entire life.

Hope to see them soon.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Veidt said:
Every now and then we read a story on how an electric car is being manufactured, or on sale.
When are we gonna see electric cars in mass production?
I haven't seen a single one, my entire life.
Just to beat the inevitable response:

esnd5x.jpg
 

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
Veidt said:
Every now and then we read a story on how an electric car is being manufactured, or on sale.
When are we gonna see electric cars in mass production?
I haven't seen a single one, my entire life.

Hope to see them soon.

Leaf

Volt
 

ToxicAdam

Member
50 million is such a small amount, in reality. Seems more like a way for Tesla to get more credibility when they release their IPO than anything else.
 
XiaNaphryz said:
Tesla will use it to build the planned Model S, a $50,000 sedan that should enter production in mid-2012. Musk and Toyoda did not disclose the plant's sale price.

$50,000 is a completely unacceptable price point. When will the car companies learn to produce a cheaper car that isn't as oil dependent? No one will pay for this or the Volt. Honestly, this is a great example of why free market capitalism is not the end all/be all. When you have a market (Auto, Oil, Health Care, Banks) that is limited in terms of competition, it tends to self regulate, giving us prices that are not really what the product is worth. Governement regulation, in these cases, can be an effective tool to lead these companies back to a more accurate free market type of economics.
 

A Penguin

Member
Nice, I live in the same city the NUMMI plant is located in. It was a major employer in the area, so its closing was a real shame. Good to see it(and jobs) are coming back.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
B For Bendetta said:
$50,000 is a completely unacceptable price point. When will the car companies learn to produce a cheaper car that isn't as oil dependent? No one will pay for this or the Volt. Honestly, this is a great example of why free market capitalism is not the end all/be all. When you have a market (Auto, Oil, Health Care, Banks) that is limited in terms of competition, it tends to self regulate, giving us prices that are not really what the product is worth. Governement regulation, in these cases, can be an effective tool to lead these companies back to a more accurate free market type of economics.

Um, these aren't econo-boxes. A Mercedes E-Class MSRPs for 50k. A Lexus GS has an MSRP for around 46k. Tesla has never shied away from the fact that their business model is to target high-end buyers then build cheaper cars as the production lines become more refined and more scaleable. When you combine government incentives you're probably looking at not paying much more for these sedans than a C-class or a Lexus IS. It's a perfectly reasonable price point (if they can hit it).
 

ToxicAdam

Member
B For Bendetta said:
$50,000 is a completely unacceptable price point. When will the car companies learn to produce a cheaper car that isn't as oil dependent? No one will pay for this or the Volt. Honestly, this is a great example of why free market capitalism is not the end all/be all. When you have a market (Auto, Oil, Health Care, Banks) that is limited in terms of competition, it tends to self regulate, giving us prices that are not really what the product is worth. Governement regulation, in these cases, can be an effective tool to lead these companies back to a more accurate free market type of economics.


The government is providing a subsidy to those that buy them. I think it's 7500 dollars. Also, states like Oregon and California provide additional tax breaks.
 

R2D4

Banned
The industry needs an electric Model T of sorts. Something that everyone can afford. Not some $50,000 thing. Plant will be closed two years after it opens. Dumb.
 

El Sloth

Banned
R2D4 said:
The industry needs an electric Model T of sorts. Something that everyone can afford. Not some $50,000 thing. Plant will be closed two years after it opens. Dumb.

I think the way Tesla is going about it might be better. Aim for the extremely wealthy to bring down costs on those parts, and slowly start aiming downwards 'till they can get that affordable electric Model T.
 

emomoonbase

I'm free 2night after my LARPing guild meets.
R2D4 said:
The industry needs an electric Model T of sorts. Something that everyone can afford. Not some $50,000 thing. Plant will be closed two years after it opens. Dumb.

How about an electric Tata? It could burst into flames and electrocute you at the same time!
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
R2D4 said:
The industry needs an electric Model T of sorts. Something that everyone can afford. Not some $50,000 thing. Plant will be closed two years after it opens. Dumb.
I suspect this part of the article...

Musk said the new alliance would produce a joint Toyota-Tesla car that would be a Toyota vehicle powered by a Tesla drive-train, hitting the market before the Model S.
...will likely be cheaper than the $50k model. Something like an electric Corolla perhaps?
 

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
R2D4 said:
The industry needs an electric Model T of sorts. Something that everyone can afford. Not some $50,000 thing. Plant will be closed two years after it opens. Dumb.

The Nissan Leaf will get the ball rolling at the end of this year. There are already 12,000 reservations in the US, after about a month. It's $25,000 after the $7500 federal tax break. 50,000 will be made in 2011 and then mass production will start in 2012 when the Tennessee plant starts up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf
 
Nerevar said:
Um, these aren't econo-boxes. A Mercedes E-Class MSRPs for 50k. A Lexus GS has an MSRP for around 46k. Tesla has never shied away from the fact that their business model is to target high-end buyers then build cheaper cars as the production lines become more refined and more scaleable. When you combine government incentives you're probably looking at not paying much more for these sedans than a C-class or a Lexus IS. It's a perfectly reasonable price point (if they can hit it).


The people that want electric cars are not the people looking to spend $50,000 on a car.

Theywill just buy the Mercedes or Lexus. All the demand is from the middle class for a reasonably priced electric and all of the car companies refuse to provide it. If that is Tesla's target, then that's fine, but this is the wrong move for Toyota then.


SteveMeister said:
What does the Volt have to do with this? GM has not announced a price for Volt yet.

Wiki says probably around $40,000. Even with the subsidies these price points are unacceptable for the middle class consumer. Nissan's Leaf seems like a more realistic approach though. I'd expect them to make a killing
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
B For Bendetta said:
The people that want electric cars are not the people looking to spend $50,000 on a car.

Theywill just buy the Mercedes or Lexus. All the demand is from the middle class for a reasonably priced electric and all of the car companies refuse to provide it. If that is Tesla's target, then that's fine, but this is the wrong move for Toyota then.
Did you completely miss the part of the article talking about other electric cars Tesla and Toyota will be making other than the Model S? Who says the other vehicles won't be priced towards the middle class?
 

geeko

Member
This is great news, I live near this Nummi plant in Fremont and a couple friends laid off last year from there. Great to see them get a chance to work there again.
 

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
Maryland just announced a $2000 instant tax break for plug-in electrics. So between that and the federal government's credit, you get $9500 off the purchase price. $40,500 is a lot more palatable than $50,000. And the Leaf becomes downright cheap.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
If I haven't seen it on the streets of Miami, it doesn't exist. We see almost every car known to man down here. These Tesla articles are vaporware. PEACE.
 

El Sloth

Banned
^ I see the all electric Smart Cars here in NYC all the time. I saw one parked between an Escalade and a Hummer last Thanksgiving. :lol

SteveMeister said:
Maryland just announced a $2000 instant tax break for plug-in electrics. So between that and the federal government's credit, you get $9500 off the purchase price. $40,500 is a lot more palatable than $50,000. And the Leaf becomes downright cheap.


NJ offers up to $4000 dollars on tax rebate and you don't pay any stat sales tax.


Edit: Found a site that has electric car benefits by state.

Looks like NJ also lets electric car owners drive in HOV lanes without having to meet the occupancy restriction. Neat.

Edit Part Duex: looking through the other states, I noticed this on Utah: "Salt Lake City offers free metered parking to electric car owners"

Oh man, if NYC offered this I'd be all over the Leaf/Volt.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
El Sloth said:
^ I see the all electric Smart Cars here in NYC all the time. I saw one parked between an Escalade and a Hummer last Thanksgiving. :lol




NJ offers up to $4000 dollars on tax rebate and you don't pay any stat sales tax.


Edit: Found a site that has electric car benefits by state.

Looks like NJ also lets electric car owners drive in HOV lanes without having to meet the occupancy restriction. Neat.
Yeah, we have Smart Cars down here. They're decent. Seen some people put big rims on them. Not sure why, other than they can afford it. But I've never seen a Tesla. PEACE.
 

otake

Doesn't know that "You" is used in both the singular and plural
That chevy volt is a fucking joke! 40 miles a charge, less if you use A/C!? fuck that.
 
I wonder how real this is. I think the Tesla Roadster is cool but I've been a critic of Tesla. It seems to be a chaotic company that is very inefficient and has a bad history office politics and in-fighting.

But if Tesla can really get Toyota involved and get the NUMMI plant up & running again, I will happy to eat my words.
 

El Sloth

Banned
otake said:
That chevy volt is a fucking joke! 40 miles a charge, less if you use A/C!? fuck that.

Word? That sucks. Mind posting a link to where you got this info?


If true, guess I'll go with the Leaf. I don't care how ugly a car is as long as it can get me to where I wanna go.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
speculawyer said:
I wonder how real this is. I think the Tesla Roadster is cool but I've been a critic of Tesla. It seems to be a chaotic company that is very inefficient and has a bad history office politics and in-fighting.

But if Tesla can really get Toyota involved and get the NUMMI plant up & running again, I will happy to eat my words.
The president of Toyota is there, how can the deal get less real?
 

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
otake said:
That chevy volt is a fucking joke! 40 miles a charge, less if you use A/C!? fuck that.

It has a gas generator that will give you 300+ miles before filling up again. So you'd use it to commute to work daily, charging at night or at work. Then if you had to take a trip the generator would recharge the battery extending your range.
 
otake said:
That chevy volt is a fucking joke! 40 miles a charge, less if you use A/C!? fuck that.
Actually, it is pure genius. The vast majority of cars are driven less than 40 miles each day for most days. Since batteries are very expensive, it is inefficient to put in more battery than you need.

In this manner, they put in just as much battery as people need but then also completely get rid of 'range anxiety', short range limitations, long charge time worries, running out of electricity while driving worries, etc.

I think the PHEV model will be HUGELY popular 5 to 15 years from now.

Edit: Wait . . . do you not realize that it includes a gas engine to keep driving after the battery is depleted?
 
XiaNaphryz said:
The president of Toyota is there, how can the deal get less real?
$50 million is not a lot of money. And Toyota was one of the company behind the closure of the NUMMI plant, so they may feel some guilt about that. Throwing $50 million at a chance to re-open it may be throwing NUMMI a bone.

If Toyota was really interested in EVs, they would just build one like Nissan is doing. But Toyota has been very hesitant. They've been sticking to the HEV for now.
 

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
speculawyer said:
Actually, it is pure genius. The vast majority of cars are driven less than 40 miles each day for most days. Since batteries are very expensive, it is inefficient to put in more battery than you need.

In this manner, they put in just as much battery as people need but then also completely get rid of 'range anxiety', short range limitations, long charge time worries, running out of electricity while driving worries, etc.

I think the PHEV model will be HUGELY popular 5 to 15 years from now.

It is quite ingenious. I'd rather have an all-electric vehicle to get off gas completely, though. By the time I'm in the market again (~5 years) I expect to have some nice choices.
 

otake

Doesn't know that "You" is used in both the singular and plural
speculawyer said:
Actually, it is pure genius. The vast majority of cars are driven less than 40 miles each day for most days. Since batteries are very expensive, it is inefficient to put in more battery than you need.

In this manner, they put in just as much battery as people need but then also completely get rid of 'range anxiety', short range limitations, long charge time worries, running out of electricity while driving worries, etc.

I think the PHEV model will be HUGELY popular 5 to 15 years from now.

Edit: Wait . . . do you not realize that it includes a gas engine to keep driving after the battery is depleted?


Whatever. The I don't like reading things like you're mileage may vary if you have a/c on. It's on the main page. You go ahead and spend your money on such unproven tripe.
 
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