Go watch that GI Joe Snake eyes film....I look forward to exciting EV car chases in movies, the brrrr, whrrrrr and zippp of the motors.
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dr_octagon
Banned
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
70k miles on one battery? I had no clue the lifespan was so short.Oof
Electric Car Battery Life: Everything You Need to Know
The battery packs of electric vehicles are quite resilient, with the lithium-ion type used in most modern EVs capable of lasting at least a decade before needing replacement.
www.caranddriver.com
The Pleasure
Gold Member
Good car? Nah. A good car or truck is easily double thay price. Change good car to Honda Civic.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
30 cars under 30 thousand. Plenty to choose from.
The Pleasure
Gold Member
A lot of those are too small for me. I'm 6'4 and many of those leave me cramped. I have a ford focus and i need leg room. That and a taller roof.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I'm taller than you and I drove a Camry for several years. The argument wasn't if you personally fit in the car, it was there are no good cars under 30k. Which isn't true. Plenty of cars out there.
I personally buy used and have a van.
Down by the river and advertising "Free Candy" no doubt
NickFire
Member
That state needs to start importing actual problem solvers who have never been part of or taken money from think tanks / universities. No way in hell should a state with that much wealth be facing blackouts.
TransTrender
Gold Member
Yeah, I already ranted about this shit a year ago.
They don't have enough electric supply as it is.
They don't have a reliable grid anymore.
They import expensive electricity from fossil fuel burning sources with high markup "Fuck you, Idiots" pricing.
They pass all the expenses down to the consumers.
People scratch their head and wonder why the entire state is a shit hole.
Big mega brain type shit here.
Yes.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Once again - new fuel hybrid cars are super efficient, nothing like what we had 10 years ago.
Buggy Loop
Member
The network, especially USA’s smaller utilities will be hit like a train. They’re not ready, there’s no way to be ready, not with the time it takes to expand a network and the ridiculous wait times on equipment now.
I calculated at university that even in Quebec with our relatively “green” energy and we swipe the impacts of hydroelectricity dams under the rug as a long term low impact for the life expectancies, it would take roughly 50 000 km with your Tesla before being carbon footprint equivalent to a gasoline car out of the factory. If your power plant is coal, just forget it.
Not sure EVs are the immediate solution.
The 15~16 biggest cargo ships produce more pollution than all the cars in the world. The blame on small citizens while the companies are running to the bank blame free and sponsored by ball less governments is disgusting.
I calculated at university that even in Quebec with our relatively “green” energy and we swipe the impacts of hydroelectricity dams under the rug as a long term low impact for the life expectancies, it would take roughly 50 000 km with your Tesla before being carbon footprint equivalent to a gasoline car out of the factory. If your power plant is coal, just forget it.
Not sure EVs are the immediate solution.
The 15~16 biggest cargo ships produce more pollution than all the cars in the world. The blame on small citizens while the companies are running to the bank blame free and sponsored by ball less governments is disgusting.
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Is that true? Holy crap. I thought ships were fairly efficient for what they can move.
Lady Jane
Banned
Every single day, a single cruise ship pollutes the planet as much as a million cars.
The Dirty Side of Cruise Ships
Cruise ship pollution is a major part of our environmental impact. A single ship emits the same amount of sulfur dioxide as 3,6 MILLION cars.
www.geekyexplorer.com
You are not the problem and don't let your government guilt trip you into these purchases. If people really want to help the environment, they need to pressure their government to go after the real culprits instead of themselves or their fellow citizens.
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It's one of those things that gets dumber the longer you think about it.
-where will the batteries come from
-how can the lower class afford this, and keep paying $30k every 70kmiles
-If Cali currently is having an energy crisis how can they maintain so many EVs
-The state can't even finish a highspeed rail line, how could they upgrade the entire electric grid to support this.
-many people don't have garages or car ports to house a charging station, where will they charge the cars
-routing a 240V line isn't cheap, again how will low income afford this.
-who pays for the electric charging outside of the home.
There is a mountain of logistics to climb and the morons in Cali think they can do it in 18 years. Again, can't even finish a high speed rail line.
-where will the batteries come from
-how can the lower class afford this, and keep paying $30k every 70kmiles
-If Cali currently is having an energy crisis how can they maintain so many EVs
-The state can't even finish a highspeed rail line, how could they upgrade the entire electric grid to support this.
-many people don't have garages or car ports to house a charging station, where will they charge the cars
-routing a 240V line isn't cheap, again how will low income afford this.
-who pays for the electric charging outside of the home.
There is a mountain of logistics to climb and the morons in Cali think they can do it in 18 years. Again, can't even finish a high speed rail line.
Hari Seldon
Member
Gonna just skip the EV and just get a horse. That is where we are headed anyway lmao.
Buggy Loop
Member
The stats is for all pollution particles though and sulfur oxides and nitrous oxides are the main culprit.
Mass of material transport per cargo versus any other means of transportation is the most efficient in CO2.
It’s hard to see the whole picture, some nitrous oxides are 300 times more potent as a GHG than CO2 but degrades faster. Anyway the gist of it is that those ships produce a fucked up exhaust of oxides of all kinds into the environment, 24h a day, 280 days a year, and barely any models of its full impacts on the environment.
They are also sneaky and avoid emission targets by being “country less”
Which is pure bullshit
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Im all for electric cars, cleaner locally + superior technology.
Rules likes this will also speed up the production of affordable $15-20k EV's
Rules likes this will also speed up the production of affordable $15-20k EV's
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Since all news outlets do is lie these days I never know what to believe. It’s a shame. Half say going electric will help the environment significantly. The other half point to the studies that say the process of creating the batteries to power electric cars being the dominant method of transportation will negate the benefits of going away from gas cars, since creating the batteries requires harming the environment.
I have no idea what’s true or not. Though I will say regardless of what’s true, I expect California to do it as poorly as possible. That state is ran by incompetent morons.
I have no idea what’s true or not. Though I will say regardless of what’s true, I expect California to do it as poorly as possible. That state is ran by incompetent morons.
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Buggy Loop
Member
Also, just to add to the non-nonsensical uncontrolled "progress", look at high voltage switchgears. They went from air pulses & vacuum chambers to quench the arc, to this fucking monster gas : Sulfur Hexafluoride (SF6)
It's only the most GHG potent gas ever seen. 23,900 times more potent than CO2 (22,800 times over a 100-year period) and has atmospheric residence in stable condition for 3,200 years. Nobody really knows how much is in the air as countries like China & India do not report the numbers. Of what is reported, SF6 is roughly 100 million cars of pollution annually in GHG, but will remain longer (65 to 80% of CO2 dissolves into the ocean over 20-200 years comparatively)
They let these companies use these stupid as fuck solutions when existing technologies were there to mitigate the problem. "Oh shit, it's a few milliseconds slower to eliminate the arc, let's use the worst GHG gas ever known to man, what could go wrong?"
This is but a little little slice of pollution that industries are let to operate with. Add it all up and it's fucking cute that they point fingers at us for a change.
These EVs will leave us with open air dirt mines, huge carbon footprints to create new power stations, substations, tranformers, switchgears and all the resulting equipment around power transmission (you think a transformer is not pollution? It's filled with toxic, bioaccumulative and non-biodegradable oil.
They made you believe that you were helping by recycling, when in fact you were just participating in the plastic lobby's plan to make plastic more acceptable and propagate like wildfire all over the world.
Goverments need the french guillotine. They will not be saving us.
It's only the most GHG potent gas ever seen. 23,900 times more potent than CO2 (22,800 times over a 100-year period) and has atmospheric residence in stable condition for 3,200 years. Nobody really knows how much is in the air as countries like China & India do not report the numbers. Of what is reported, SF6 is roughly 100 million cars of pollution annually in GHG, but will remain longer (65 to 80% of CO2 dissolves into the ocean over 20-200 years comparatively)
They let these companies use these stupid as fuck solutions when existing technologies were there to mitigate the problem. "Oh shit, it's a few milliseconds slower to eliminate the arc, let's use the worst GHG gas ever known to man, what could go wrong?"
This is but a little little slice of pollution that industries are let to operate with. Add it all up and it's fucking cute that they point fingers at us for a change.
These EVs will leave us with open air dirt mines, huge carbon footprints to create new power stations, substations, tranformers, switchgears and all the resulting equipment around power transmission (you think a transformer is not pollution? It's filled with toxic, bioaccumulative and non-biodegradable oil.
They made you believe that you were helping by recycling, when in fact you were just participating in the plastic lobby's plan to make plastic more acceptable and propagate like wildfire all over the world.
Goverments need the french guillotine. They will not be saving us.
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i just highly doubt we'll see that cheap of a car ever again, anyways. chevy spark is the cheapest new car you can get and that shit is like 14k before taxes and other shit added on. and you know corporations aren't going to lower prices if they don't need to. we'll just get 30 year loans for cars and mortgages....
EDIT: what we need is more reliable public transit in the states and bullet trains. we need to stop relying on single person vehicles full stop.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Im sorry im thinking in pounds. I try and use dollars because its kind of the universal currency but sometimes i get mixed up.
So i mean £10-15k which is like $15-20k
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Your probably correct in terms of environment, but I love the freedom of having my own personal vehicle that I can use as a base and sleep in and stuff.
West Texas CEO
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Forced adoption increases prices and crates scarcity therefore increasing prices.
King Jaffe Joffer
Neo Member
California continues to make me want to leave. PG&E is terrible and there is no way Cali can sustain an all electric car future. PG&E can't even make basic upgrades to the infrastructure.
As with most legislation it has no real forward thinking beyond gas bad, electric good.
Build some nuclear plants or something.
As with most legislation it has no real forward thinking beyond gas bad, electric good.
Build some nuclear plants or something.
They are asking Californians not to charge their cars over the weekend...
techxplore.com
I can see asking people to drive EVs once there is infrastructure in place to support it. Banning gas cars without having an infrastructure ready is just dumb. But it is California so business as usual....
Californians told not to charge EVs as grid struggles in heat wave
Californians were told Wednesday not to charge their electric vehicles during peak hours, just days after the state said it would stop selling gas-powered cars, as the aging electricity grid struggles with a fearsome heatwave.
I can see asking people to drive EVs once there is infrastructure in place to support it. Banning gas cars without having an infrastructure ready is just dumb. But it is California so business as usual....
Hari Seldon
Member
Surely someone has done the calculation to see how much more power they would need if everyone switches to EVs. I'd be curious to see.They are asking Californians not to charge their cars over the weekend...
Californians told not to charge EVs as grid struggles in heat wave
Californians were told Wednesday not to charge their electric vehicles during peak hours, just days after the state said it would stop selling gas-powered cars, as the aging electricity grid struggles with a fearsome heatwave.
I can see asking people to drive EVs once there is infrastructure in place to support it. Banning gas cars without having an infrastructure ready is just dumb. But it is California so business as usual....
I live in Wa and this is a joke. You know weed is legal here when they expect to have the infrastructure in place to support this idea in only 8 years. They're all high af.
BTW in WA it takes like 7 to 10 years to do ANYTHING just because of all the environmwntal impact studies that need to be done. We have a road here that is underwater at least 20% of fall to spring because of flooding. Guaranteed every year and causes traffic to back up to epic proportions because of it. They won't do anything because of the length of time and cost to do environmental impact investigations. This is what they need to fix although I care less now since I work from home...when it floods, it added over an hour AT LEAST of commute time
There is also this:
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23985040/1240860061.jpg)
www.theverge.com
The shift to electric vehicles is about to overwhelm meager US mining operations
We may not have enough minerals for all the batteries.
www.theverge.com
TheDreadLord
Member
I don’t think it is superior tech just because someone decided to attached monitors in every single part of the interior.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
No it doesn't because the auto companies will make more EVs because they don't have a choice.
GHG
Gold Member
With what? Thin air?
Have you not seen the price of lithium and cobalt lately?
What is driving lithium prices in 2022 and beyond? | Benchmark Source
It’s been almost a year since lithium prices hit an inflection point to all time highs and three months since a controversial Goldman Sachs research note predicting a price crash on increased lithium supply. Yet Benchmark’s global average lithium prices have held steady since April’s record high...
Honda: Lithium-Ion EV’s Won’t Reach Price Parity With Gasoline Cars | OilPrice.com
As Honda gears up for its debut Acura EV, the price tag that comes with existing battery technology and soaring battery metals costs suggests that ICE vehicles will maintain the cost-competitive edge for some time
oilprice.com
Cash is king for EV makers as soaring battery prices drive up vehicle production costs
Rising costs and new federal regulations are adding new cost pressures to what was already an expensive process.
www.cnbc.com
So tell me, how exactly are they going to get cost (and therefore prices) down?
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
So what do you think will be the cheapest EV will be in 2035, of cause it will be higher then because of inflation.
I know China has been investing in battery minerals and tech for a long time, they bet on EVs.
Your article say that cobolt and nickel are getting cheaper, while lithium is getting more expensive and honda are investigating $310 million in creating solid state batteries which don't require lithium.
Speaking of price you can already get cheap EVs. In the form of small Suzuki van style or the wheel 2 seater trikes.
The make auto makers haven't really made a budget EV yet they all seem somewhat premium. So they are not even making EVs in the budget segment yet, banning Ice vehicles will speed up the production of the budget segment, the budget segment is still a huge percentage of the auto market auto companies are not going to abondon it, just don't expect something like a model 3 to be cheap.
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GHG
Gold Member
Unless we switch from lithium to something different then I don't see what will cause prices to come down to the degree they need to in order to make EV's affordable for everyone on a mass scale.
It's a finite resource, it's energy and resource intensive to mine, it's expensive to mine. In order for this to be a meaningful, sustainable and affordable endeavour we need to shift to renewables, not just shift the burden.
A note on China - they own a huge % share (over 50% in some instances and it gets even worse of you look at processing and refining) of market share for a lot of resources that are required for EV batteries so I question how incentivised they are to conduct the necessary R&D to find a viable alternative that is both cheaper and sustainable. They stand to gain more than anyone else during the EV adoption phase. I'd also go as far as to say any alternative they do come up with will also require everyone going through them to get the necessary materials.
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Given the laws of scarcity in economics, forced purchase increases scarcity and increases prices due to required purchases. It is straightforward economics.
when the government required everyone have health care, prices did not decrease. They increased exponentially.
when the government required everyone have health care, prices did not decrease. They increased exponentially.
nocsi
Member
Why? I have an EV already, don’t really care about anyone else. Writing is on the wall. WA state energy infrastructure can handle it. We have a shitload of hydro energy stored up
This is EV owners in wa state as of 2020
Washington 50,520
There are more than 5.5 million licensed drivers in Washington
Do you seriously think that our infrastructure could support let's say 1.1 million EV drivers?
You already have your EV as you mentioned above, but what happens when you drive home and you and your entire city try to charge your cars at the same time?
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Havoc2049
Member
Good luck with all these states dealing with all the supply chain issues of building millions of EV charging stations across multiple states in a relatively short period of time. All the companies involved will be making bank.
It's never good when the government gets involved and makes all these hard dates. Prices in this EV market will skyrocket.
It's never good when the government gets involved and makes all these hard dates. Prices in this EV market will skyrocket.
nocsi
Member
I have a power wall at home and will be supplementing with solar and something else to get off the grid. I think you’re underestimating WA’s grid. There’s a reason Microsoft and google have chosen issaquah to be their data center locale.
Still a lot of issues to work out with electrifying so many personal use vehicles. Another that isn't mentioned as much is where is the tax money going to come from to offset the reduction of gasoline purchases when so many will be able to "fuel up" from home? Public charging stations should be easy enough and that will get more expensive with more tax built in. Surely it's going to have to eventually be built into the utility bills.
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