So no source then? Got it.
Texas School bans Confederate battle flag
- Thread starter Measley
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Dude Abides
Banned
Actually it's the understanding of pretty much everyone who doesn't revere it, and a lot of them as well.
Why do you side with condemning it if it's just an innocent symbol that everyone is free to interpret in accordance with his own understanding? Why is it so black and white?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Good
Devolution
Member
Next thing Seanspeed is going to tell us is that we can't judge people in white hoods.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Oh, that sentence could definitely be read both ways, and I actually think on first read, it sounds the way you interpreted it. After I read your reaction, I went back and re-read what I wrote and I was like "OH NO!!!" It was "ourselves" that made it sound like I was a rootin' tootin' Southern Pride Rebel, lol
So everybody who doesn't feel the same way as you? Thats kinda been my point all along. This 'everyone' thing doesn't quite mean everyone like you think it does. Your inability to understand that other people see it differently is the biggest road block here.
Yea, I never said anything like that. I'm just a fairly understanding person who isn't so quick to judge people.
Yup, thats next, Devo. Its a complete extreme, but thats my style aint it? Leaping to the ends of things without trying to see any sort of compromising middle.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Just to be perfectly clear, the "it" you're referring to in this sentence is the confederate battle flag, yes? The one that a school in Texas just banned?
So if you always side with condemning it, what are you doing in here? Is the entire point of your argument to point out that for every statistically overwhelming truism there are a number of exceptions to that rule?
Because I think that's basically a given, isn't it? People being the weird, complex, complicated creatures that we are, there's always going to be a strange story, an outlier, that flies in the face of conventional wisdom. But considering you, in fact, agree with the decision made, and you say you always have, I don't understand why you need to fight so hard to make sure people understand that somewhere, in some instances, there are some people who don't fit into that model.
It's a poor choice in advocacy, really.
BlackGoku03
Member
They still fly the flag at our Capital! People complained about it about a decade ago (I was still over seas) and so they made it square instead of rectangle. :/
I saw a woman wearing this shirt at the movie theaters:
I wanted to say something but I didn't want to waste my time.
I saw a woman wearing this shirt at the movie theaters:
I wanted to say something but I didn't want to waste my time.
makingmusic476
Member
This.
I used to be one of the "The South was right! It was about states' rights, not slavery man!" crazy, nationalistic, Southern loving libertarians.
I eventually realized the mental gymnastics I had to leap through to convince myself that slavery was a non-issue.
Plus, I turned into a bleeding hard liberal commie that no longer thinks all other countries are dumb while America fuckin' rocks.
The Artful Dodger
Member
I've met quite a few non-racists Confederate flag owners. I drink with some of them, they're good people. If they want to hold onto history and focus on positive aspects of it, whatever. It don't bother me none.
Some of them might be horrific racists, I've met those ones too, I mean you can't say who gets to view it in this light and who doesn't. All you can do is present the facts and let people judge for themselves. I mean, History is a pretty complex subject. Most symbols or groups have their share of controversy.
makingmusic476
Member
I would claim that I was one of those non-racist flag waivers.
Though looking back I probably exhibited a bit of subtle, subconscious racism at the time.
Amibguous Cad
Member
If you are so unconcerned with those who would feel threatened by it that you are willing to fly a flag of white supremacy, you prove that you are racist. No one's flying a swastika as a generic symbol for German nationalism.
The Artful Dodger
Member
Like I said, it's an individual issue and choice. Some folks have some view points about it, and look at what it symbolizes now. They're good people, and I like them. We might disagree on fundamental issues of American Identity, and certain meanings behind symbols, but that's part of the country.
Also, as far as subconscious racism, there's alot of that exhibited in all areas of the political spectrum.
I've known some Black guys to fly it the Confederate Flag. So obviously for them it's not a symbol of White Supremacy.
Some folks do fly the Swastika like that (Old Biker Gangs used to use, mostly for shock value and to show they didn't fit in with "Normal Society"), but mostly folks fly the Iron Cross, which has a different meaning after the Nazis appropriated it than it did prior.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Sorry but a school board ruling is not an infringement on free speech.
It's a school and a public one at that. They also prohibit prayer at pubic schools too and religious symbols.
It's not applicable.
String tops, tube tops, hats with logos, are banned in many school districts and many other articles of clothing sometimes only for the students, other times for both students and staff.
It's a school and a public one at that. They also prohibit prayer at pubic schools too and religious symbols.
It's not applicable.
String tops, tube tops, hats with logos, are banned in many school districts and many other articles of clothing sometimes only for the students, other times for both students and staff.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
We ban things all the time for any number of reasons
Dude isn't stupid, I'm reasonably sure he's heard of the concept of empathy.
The confed flag might mean something different to some of the people who fly it, but its closest association for most is slavery.
The Artful Dodger
Member
Hell, Sports jerseys are banned.
If a School wants to ban somethin' they can do it. My Middle school changed their logo after they realized it was the same logo as the Black Panthers. Schools should be about educating folks, the school should be teaching about both sides of Confederate History, and the perspectives of the flag. Even if you don't agree with it, you should always respect a view point especially if it's an opposing one.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Just because some guys ignore the historical meanings of certain symbols doesn't make their historical meanings go away
The Artful Dodger
Member
I know, The American Flag has alot of that behind it also.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Still not applicable as a free speech issue.
They are banning the flag as a symbol of the school, not banning from discussion, or history lessons.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Guess you say don't know how much I'd agree with it
The Artful Dodger
Member
Haha, Like I said...It's all perception. One of the craziest images I'll never forget is when 9-11 happened there was a kid cheering during a burning the American Flag, but he was wearing a Chicago Bears shirt. My buddies, their band did a tour and went to Gaza strip and were like...hey man, those kids, they love Chuck Berry.
Anyways, I digress, like I said specific symbols mean different things, to different folks. Look at Reagan, I hate the guy, some people wish he'd come back...It's just the way it goes, I guess.
I wonder what its like to live next to one of these houses.
I probably wouldn't need streetlights to brighten up my yard at night.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
In the US for US citizens is more or less the discussion sure the US flag has different meanings in other areas of the world
The rising sun flag of Japan is cool Japanese but for their neighbors so it's banned in official capacity
The Artful Dodger
Member
Even in the US, for the US citizens, there is a checkered history. As it is understood the flag is a symbol of freedom and whatever whatever, but it's also a symbol of oppression (trail of tears, manifest destiny, slavery, etc etc), or the "Hollowness of the American Dream" (I put it in quotes because many of my classes in college seemed to harp on that). It's something that, as a literature major, there were a great many discussions about.)
For many it's a great Symbol, and it evokes a certain attitude, but it's like you said earlier, Just because some guys ignore the historical meanings of certain symbols doesn't make their historical meanings go away. Just because that's a minority viewpoint doesn't mean it's not still historical.
(Haha, all this, and all I was trying to say originally was, some folks who fly the flag are nice people, and aren't racist.)
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Until the country changes the flag that is what we have.. The confederate flag is not an official and if a school deems it to hold racial values than by all means ban it.. like they banned gang colors in some schools.. Has nothing to do with what the country's flag is viewed as or not viewed as..
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I can see the argument outside of America, but in America? no..
He's basically equating the vast majority view that the confederate flag is associated with slavery and racism to the extreme minority viewpoint that the us flag is manifest destiny and trail of tears. It doesn't make sense. Everyone might as well start making up their own meanings for everything.
There were a lot of people at my high school (of all races) who wanted the Confederate Flag to be our school flag (it was at one point, but it was replaced years ago). It does, of course, symbolize some pretty terrible things, but to a lot of people it was more about southern pride. It wasn't "YEAH THIS REPRESENTS SLAVERY AND RACISM AND SECEDING AND WAR!" as much as it was "YEAH THIS IS PART OF THE HISTORY OF THE SOUTH".
Not saying I agree, but I could kind of go either way to be honest.
Our fight song was also Dixie.
Not saying I agree, but I could kind of go either way to be honest.
Our fight song was also Dixie.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I'm not going to say that everyone who waves the flag is a racist, but it just seems so weird to me that people would deliberately cling to a symbol that has such an ugly history behind it and attempt to justify/redefine it for that reason.
Isn't there SOME other way southen pride could be represented?
Dude Abides
Banned
I've said multiple times that I realize people understand it differently, but their understanding is based in ignorance at best. If you refuse to read and process plain English I don't know what else I can say to you.
Well, you don't seem to be saying much of anything besides how great you are.
Takamura-San
Member
Read my comment.
I stated current republican party.
I'm well aware that at that moment the roles were reversed.
You cannot say with a straight face that the Democrat party of that day had the same values as the current democrat party.
I don't know why people keep going back to that.
"This is the same Britain that tried to take over the world!"
Obviously they aren't the same thing anymore other than the title. However, this flag? It's exactly what it looks like. It symbolizes hate, getting your ass kicked, ignorance, intolerance, and irrational fear of government that had their best interests at heart to begin with. Fly it high. Let everyone around you know what kind of person you are in advance.
ElectricBlue187
Member
if listening to you whine about a flag is my price for freedom, then I pay it gladly, sir.
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