Texas School bans Confederate battle flag

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vas_a_morir said:
And calling them 'losers' is typical American arrogance. Given the circumstances and the great advantages with both industrial and military infrastructure, we kinda won in a losery way ourselves.
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... I really do not believe that is the pronoun you want to use.
 
CharlieDigital said:
There was a story on this on NPR a while back: N.Y. Town Still Uncertain Why It Left The Union
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NPR were the ones that clued me in on the town. I think the main issue is the lack of written records.
I wish people would discuss how the speed of information flow effected the entire civil war. It truly is amazing how information and the speed in which we can access it affects our points of view.

Also every time I see the confederate flag, I only think about how awesome the dukes of hazard was.
 
flm5H.jpg


I remember reading this, but I was trying to remember another better comic with an alt-future second Civil War and a multi-racial Confederacy.
 
Bumblebeetuna said:
If I wanted any cool type of "gotcha" moment I'd have quoted both posts. Just pointing out your mistake in logic is all. Just like your mistake here where you say people are using the flag to refer to the Confederacy.
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It's not a mistake, the flag of the Confederacy is the symbol of the Confederacy, a racist and treasonous institution. What else could it be a symbol for?
 
Sub_Level said:
Same here, Texas bro.
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Oh, an outright ban on someone's freedom of speech to fly such flag or the banning of it being flown in state sponsered events? State sponsered events? Sure, we can ban it. An individual has the right to fly it if they so choose it.

BTW, their mascot was a "Rebel" hence why the flag was even involved at school events to begin with. Its not like they were pledging allegience to the thing in class or anything.
 
Bumblebeetuna said:
If I wanted any cool type of "gotcha" moment I'd have quoted both posts. Just pointing out your mistake in logic is all. Just like your mistake here where you say people are using the flag to refer to the Confederacy.
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Sorry this is like the people who use 'nigger' to refer to any person they don't like. "It's just a word, get over it. I use it to mean something else."

Nope.
 
Matt said:
It's not a mistake, the flag of the Confederacy is the symbol of the Confederacy, a racist and treasonous institution. What else could it be a symbol for?
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Dude Abides said:
I like Bumblebeetuna's postmodern approach. Symbols have no meaning, they simply mean whatever any particular individual wants them to mean. You might think the Confederate flag stands for the Confederacy because you know history, but I've decided it stands for gay rights!
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That's an opinion.
 
Dude Abides said:
What's the middle ground? You and BBT are claiming that people who use a symbol have the exclusive power to decide what it means.
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Yea, I never said anything like that.

My point is that with enough people and enough time, the symbolic meaning of something CAN change and that different people can take a symbol and find different meanings in it. There's no black and white here. Its fuzzy and perhaps even nonsensical at times, but its the way it is.
 
Seanspeed said:
Yea, I never said anything like that.

My point is that with enough people and enough time, the symbolic meaning of something CAN change and that different people can take a symbol and find different meanings in it. There's no black and white here. Its fuzzy and perhaps even nonsensical at times, but its the way it is.
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That would only happen with a lot of time, and enough distance away from the original meanings and effects. The Confederacy is still stinking up America last time I sniffed. I dunno about you.


Maybe they think we forgot? "Naw this means...um we like muddin and cornbread! S-slavery? What? What's he talkin about pa-paw?"
 
Seanspeed said:
Yea, I never said anything like that.

My point is that with enough people and enough time, the symbolic meaning of something CAN change and that different people can take a symbol and find different meanings in it. There's no black and white here. Its fuzzy and perhaps even nonsensical at times, but its the way it is.
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I agree.
 
Nazi Swastika symbolizes to me how people can work together and unite for a single purpose. The prosperity of the people. Unity! Fidelity!
 
Seanspeed said:
Yea, I never said anything like that.

My point is that with enough people and enough time, the symbolic meaning of something CAN change and that different people can take a symbol and find different meanings in it. There's no black and white here. Its fuzzy and perhaps even nonsensical at times, but its the way it is.
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But in this case that hasn't happened and the "it just means pride in mah heritage" position requires turning a blind eye to almost everything we know about where the flag originated and how it's been symbolically deployed. So it's not a reasonable position and should not be taken seriously, and it's not clear why you were pressing the trite observation about different meanings for different people so hard.
 
Dr.NoiseWater said:
So. It illustrates that it CAN mean different things to different people. I don't see how you can tell me what I think it means.
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...I mean, you can say whatever you want, I guess, that's the power of epistemology, but society is free to ignore what you say in favor of what we've all agreed as a group, so you can go on saying that it doesn't mean racism to you and the rest of us can go on agreeing that you're probably a racist for saying that.
 
pigeon said:
...I mean, you can say whatever you want, I guess, that's the power of epistemology, but society is free to ignore what you say in favor of what we've all agreed as a group, so you can go on saying that it doesn't mean racism to you and the rest of us can go on agreeing that you're probably a racist for saying that.
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Fine. My point stands.
 
Besides, Texas isn't really considered "South" anyway.

If anybody has spent time in the South and Texas, then you know what I mean from a cultural stand point. (not an actual succesion standpoint).
 
akira28 said:
That would only happen with a lot of time, and enough distance away from the original meanings and effects.
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There's no scientific establishment of when something can change or has changed meaning. It can happen extremely quickly or extremely slowly. Holding up your pointer and middle fingers didn't always mean 'peace', for example. That was something that happened pretty quickly.

akira28 said:
The Confederacy is still stinking up America last time I sniffed. I dunno about you.

Maybe they think we forgot? "Naw this means...um we like muddin and cornbread! S-slavery? What? What's he talkin about pa-paw?"
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I dont like the flag myself and I'm not saying people shouldn't be offended by it, I'm just not going to live in denial about why some people display it like some of y'all.
 
Copying this from what a friend of mine wrote:

News Flash: there is no aspect of southern Pride that can't be isolated from the confederate flag. Apart from systematic exploitation of slave labor. If you like agriculture, get a future Farmers of America shirt. If you like your state, get a Virginia is for lovers shirt. If you like your family tree, make a chart and put it on the wall or on a shirt. If you like Bullriding get something related to what you love. When I see stars and bars I am going to have a Civil discourse with you, and I will call that ass out. The south lost, get the fuck over it
 
Good, that flag has no place in a public school, individuals can fly it if they so wish but I'd personally avoid those people



Tex117 said:
Besides, Texas isn't really considered "South" anyway.

If anybody has spent time in the South and Texas, then you know what I mean from a cultural stand point. (not an actual succesion standpoint).
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East Texas is very south-like
 
Seanspeed said:
I dont like the flag myself and I'm not saying people shouldn't be offended by it, I'm just not going to live in denial about why some people display it like some of y'all.
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Well, I am of the opinion that those who fly it are the ones braving the Nile.

vv: laugh it up and be amused, but intent alone doesn't redeem a thing or erase it's meaning. The sheer power of will..not quite.
 
akira28 said:
Sorry this is like the people who use 'nigger' to refer to any person they don't like. "It's just a word, get over it. I use it to mean something else."

Nope.
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lol no sorry, nothing like that at all. I do love all the absolute extremes some of you are going to though.

I know plenty of fellow Texans who use the symbol in various ways and do it with no intent of any throwback to the South or the Confederacy or racism or slavery in mind. Maybe it's just a cultural difference? Who knows. But the assumptions and blind hate people show in these threads are always amusing.
 
Dude Abides said:
But in this case that hasn't happened and the "it just means pride in mah heritage" position requires turning a blind eye to almost everything we know about where the flag originated and how it's been symbolically deployed. So it's not a reasonable position and should not be taken seriously, and it's not clear why you were pressing the trite observation about different meanings for different people so hard.
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You're just living in denial. I dont know what else to say on it. You're just going to flat refuse to accept that some people dont actually display it to represent their support of succession or slavery. I think thats a pretty close-minded way to see it, but whatever.
 
Rayis said:
Good, that flag has no place in a public school, individuals can fly it if they so wish but I'd personally avoid those people





East Texas is very south-like
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Yeah, anything east of I-45. (see a previous post of mine).

Dallas and Houston are not super "SOUTH" places.

By the time you hit Austin, you are not even close.
 
pigeon said:
Should I assume you meant this question seriously, or were you just arranging those words in that order because you decided they meant something else and nobody can tell you otherwise?
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He's pretty clearly making the point that akira's comment was laughably ill-thought out. He used an example of a word whose original meaning has changed for a certain group of people as a way to prove that people cant change the meanings of things.

Essentially:

fhTsn.gif
 
and like the good doc, you also fail
a valiant effort, and who doesn't love Bobby, who would never fly a Confederate flag?
 
Buda is my home town, although it's much larger now than when I was born there. It's good they finally got rid of the Confederate flag as their high school flag. I'll have to see it less when I visit my mom.
 
Why are you even asking? What other point do you think I was trying to make?

It was said that the flag's meaning is the same no matter the intention of the owner and I am saying the same can be said of Akira's post. But I guess its all in how its said right? Its use is deemed ok because of the intention of the artist.

But its fine... expression is only ok when it supports your point. Expressions of anyone elses opinion is null and void because your opinion of what you think the flag means should prevail.

I don't agree.
 
Dude Abides said:
But in this case that hasn't happened and the "it just means pride in mah heritage" position requires turning a blind eye to almost everything we know about where the flag originated and how it's been symbolically deployed. So it's not a reasonable position and should not be taken seriously, and it's not clear why you were pressing the trite observation about different meanings for different people so hard.
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I just ask them to define heritage. Then suddenly whoopsie.
 
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