Yahoo! News/AP
Damn.
According to CNN, the boy was a very disturbed individual. But it appears that he conceived the plan to exact retribution for his punishment (the warning from his grandfather to send him back to Florida).
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That Zoloft kid (15-years-old) got 30 yrs. in prison
- Thread starter MIMIC
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Damn.
According to CNN, the boy was a very disturbed individual. But it appears that he conceived the plan to exact retribution for his punishment (the warning from his grandfather to send him back to Florida).
Yeah, exactly. While you can definitely question why they tried him as an adult, you cannot question the fact that the kid has some serious issues... sure, the medicine could have "pushed him over the edge," but there has to be something wrong with you beforehand, I would think. If you do something that horrible -- shotgun to the mouth, then face -- to your own grandparents -- there's no coming back from that It's not like a couple years of therapy will help someone that became so distrubed. That's forever... he's going to think about what he did every day in many different ways throughout his life.Tuvoc said:
This isn't a case I'm going to question, because it's not like I can feel too bad for the kid. I don't think the antidepressants had anything to do with it.
Punishment was too light.
Life in prison minimum. He killed 2 people and destroyed property.
And a 12 year old knows that killing is wrong. A 12 year old knows that burning down a house is wrong. There should be no hiding behind age. Jewish boys are considered adults when they hit what? 12? 13?
Life in prison minimum. He killed 2 people and destroyed property.
And a 12 year old knows that killing is wrong. A 12 year old knows that burning down a house is wrong. There should be no hiding behind age. Jewish boys are considered adults when they hit what? 12? 13?
Justin Bailey
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I'm mad this freak will be back on the streets when he's 45. Prolly earlier if he gets out on parole.
olimario said:
A faith's doctrine and simple facts of biology are two different things, Oli. Puberty doesn't end until the late teens, early 20s. By that very rule alone, someone who's 13 cannot be considered an "adult" under normal circumstances. Charging him as an adult is meant to be symbolic, nothing more. That he committed an "adult crime," he deserves an "adult punishment."
At 12, yes, unless there's some serious arrested development taking place, you know the basic difference between right and wrong, certainly enough to know that taking a human life is wrong. Given that, he deserves to be locked up, but the help he needs is psychological. To be able to do such a thing at such a young age is indicative of something just being broken.
At 12-years-old you know the difference between life and death as well as right and wrong. This wasn't a case involving a boy who lashed out at his grandparents in a fit of rage while not in his right mind, inadvertantly killing them. This is the case of a boy who waited until his grandparents were asleep, procured a gun, loaded it and fired upon them. There is some indication there of planning, thinking or even possible pre-meditation (although no proof was found to substantiate that assumption). The boy also had a history of violent behavior, such as choking another student on a bus. He deserved punishment for his crime and as a result he will hopefully get the psychological help that he needs while incarcerated. I fail to see how anyone can be in disagreement with this; he's obviously unfit for society regardless at this point. If he choked a student in the past and killed his own grandparents, do you really think that he belongs in a school or home environment?
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Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
some people are just evil. Lock that fucker up and put it down to him losing the genetic lottery. Bad luck. At least nobody except prison guards have to deal with him now.
Being black history month, let's see what the good Dr. King has to say about charging minors as adults.
http://www.nobelprizes.com/nobel/peace/MLK-jail.html
So the good Dr. King would applaud this youth for doing his "moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
This youth is not a monster - he is a revolutionary!
(Or Dr. King wasn't thinking straight when he wrote that letter)
Dr. King "Letter from Birmingham Jail" said:
Dr. King "Letter from Birmingham Jail" said:
http://www.nobelprizes.com/nobel/peace/MLK-jail.html
So the good Dr. King would applaud this youth for doing his "moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
This youth is not a monster - he is a revolutionary!
(Or Dr. King wasn't thinking straight when he wrote that letter)
ManDudeChild
Member
Flynn said:
That's a foolish bit of logic there ... and you know it. Of COURSE a newborn under those circumstances wouldn't. However, one can argue that a 12-year-old that doesn't live in a magical fantasy land with floating bubblegum trees and happy clowns or some bullshit would understand. both in the face, house burnt down... yeah, I think the kid knew what he was doing. Maybe his head was altered by the Zoloft a bit, but as others have said, you have to be REALLY FUCKED UP already to do that. Especially with the movements made. Now a brief moment of rage, that I can see. But the shootings, the fire, driving off. He was in the frame of mind to understand.
ManDudeChild said:
It's a sliding scale. I described the extreme. No try to imagine the reality, in which children are raised with conflicting messages, crippling abuse, hormonal imbalances, learning deficiancies, poverty and all manner of other obstacles to living a normal, healthy, and non-waxing-your-grandparents-with-the-shotgun-that-they-just-left-lying-around-the-house kind of life.
It just ticks me off that people can read two paragraphs and immediatly pass judgement over a situation. You will never know that kid's life. You will never know the real details that lead to him offing his grandparents.
It's stupid to make a categorical judgement that he knew the difference between right and wrong with so little goddamn information.
Rorschach said:
Seriously, oh and let's not forget:
"Let us consider a more concrete example of just and unjust laws. An unjust law is a code that a numerical or power majority group compels a minority group to obey but does not make binding on itself. This is difference made legal. By the same token, a just law is a code that a majority compels a minority to follow and that it is willing to follow itself. This is sameness made legal."
That post was out of left field, did you just read Letter from Birmingham Jail for the first time?
Flynn said:
I must digress, because I do agree with you that morality is not an inherent part of us but a learned behavioral concept. However, I still believe that if you were to ask any 12-year-old in a public elementary school today whether murder was a crime or not, they would be more than capable of answering the question correctly. Although upbringing can be questioned, I am not of the opinion that such basic education and understanding of our laws can.
This all assumes that if he were raised correctly he would be broken. Otherwise, this is just a kid with a shitty childhood solving his problem the only way he knows how. The effects of his actions are something that he didn't actually think through which shows the level of maturity he's at. It's obvious he still has a juvenile's mentality, but he did an "adult crime"... whatever that means, considering the fact everyone over the age of 8 can commit these crimes.xsarien said:
UltimateMarioMan
Member
This is criminal. A 12 year old is not capable of understanding the consequences of murder. Whoever decided to try him as an adult should be jailed.
Flynn said:
And I assure you that the baby won't come out killing people, either. In your example, they may not know the difference between right and wrong, but they won't take the idea of "wrong" (by our current societal understanding) as a principal to live by.
The fact that the kid tried to conceal his wrongdoing (by burning down the house) and flee the scene (knowing that remaining on site would cause him to be held accountable for doing something so completely wrong) shows that he knew full well what he was doing.
I think that values (in this respect) are inherent because common sense teaches us to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
There is a difference between not perceiving or understanding a law and simply choosing to disregard it altogether. IMO, Im inclined to lean towards obfuscation not being of issue here. What was at question in this case was the boys sense of judgment and emotional instabilities not his ability to comprehend murder. I could be missing out on more, though
forgive me, but I didnt click the link to read the entirety of the article. X_x
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Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
MIMIC said:
Well that's an excellent justification for locking the fucker up actually. He obviously did know what he was doing. Besides, to all the defenders of this punk, don't you remember being 12? I do, and when I was stealing chocolate bars from the store I sure as shit knew that was wrong.
If he's too dumb to realise the consequences of his actions at 12, then lock him up anyway.
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Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Mike said:
I doubt any circumstances excuse shooting your grandparents in the face with a shotgun and then burning their house down and then taking off when you are 12. I also think the defenders of this kid are an example of Political correctness gone way to far. He's broken, put him in the can't be fixed pile.
Blah blah blah.UltimateMarioMan said:
Most adults don't even get passed the childhood state (mentally) either, so should they not be tried as adults either? You can tell who those people are because they're the thiefs that take without taking into account the consequences of their actions (easiest example i can think of). They think they'll get away with it and that's that.
It's a very selfish mentality.
I think what Waychel said fits my view. All non-retarded people (not counting children under the age of 8) understand the concept of death and a murder is a murder, even if they don't take into account what can happen to them afterward.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
I'd normally be the first person to stand up and say that this was the right decision but in this case I'm not so sure. I spent years and years dealing with depressed and otherwise mentally disturbed people. If this kid was 12 years old and on Zoloft then something was definitely wrong with him. These kinds of people know right from wrong but they are often unable to control themselves because of several chemical imbalances in their brains. Doctors often spend months and sometimes years tweaking the medications for these people and all these changes in meds can wreak havok on a person's mental state. I would not be the least bit surprised if he snapped, came to his senses, and then burned the house down in a panic to try and hide it (face it, 12 year olds can do some stupid shit). If there ever was a case where the insanity defense was justified it was probably this one. What happened was terrible but this kid did not deserve 30 years in prison. Its sad that the prosecuter and the judge apparently don't understand the nature of this boy's condition. Heck, a lot of people out there don't understand really.
To everyone defending trying this 12 year old as an adult:
Can you imagine a circumstance where a 12 year should be legally allowed to have sex with an adult?
It just seems like there's a double standard here. The argument for age of consent laws has always been that a person under the age of 18 isn't old enough to understand the consequences of sex. I always assumed that was the reasoning for why we don't try children as adults for crimes like this as well.
Can you imagine a circumstance where a 12 year should be legally allowed to have sex with an adult?
It just seems like there's a double standard here. The argument for age of consent laws has always been that a person under the age of 18 isn't old enough to understand the consequences of sex. I always assumed that was the reasoning for why we don't try children as adults for crimes like this as well.
Mike said:
The boy will get help while he is incarcerated and in the meantime he won't be an immediate threat or danger to others. Although it is true that he was sentenced to 30 years in prison, with good behavior and psychiatric endoresement he could be out in 13 depending on the state.
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Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Mike said:
I'm sorry what? I'm not even from this kids country I didn't do shit stop blaming his murder on my ignorance. I'm all for helping troubled teens, but when one goes on a rampage and SHOOTS HIS GRANDPARENTS IN THE FACE, he needs to be thrown over the crazy cliff. Seriously just read this sentance.
He shot his grandparents in the face, burned down their house and then took off in their car.
Lets get this poor guy a hot drink and a blanket....
What's your solution to this problem. Mine is lock him up so society doesn't have to deal with him, there is a line and he crossed it, no more helping. Oh and let's throw in a "Youth aid program get's reviewed" for god measure.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Gonaria said:
yeah, lets just free this little fucker when he turns 18. I'm sure he'll be a nice contributer to society. Drugs or no drugs, nobody who does the shit this kid did should see the outside of a cell ANY time soon.
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