Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
You hate an entire country because of the actions of some people? That's some crazy prejudice. And here you are talking about racism.
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That's Melbourne, 5 years running world's most liveable city.
- Thread starter Ozzy Onya A2Z
- Start date
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You hate an entire country because of the actions of some people? That's some crazy prejudice. And here you are talking about racism.
I had the same experience in CBD Sydney minus the 3 white people.
This was a situation that came from the reactionary press in India, rather than an actual epidemic of racial violence. It does show that that AU/UK/US aren't the only nations with Murdock-style media creating fear from nothing. Of course racism exists. And there are racial motivate crimes. But the evidence is clear that Melbourne is a safe city for every ethnicity to live in, and the city has far fewer racial issues than Sydney.
It's always weird to see the anti-immigration politics from federal politicians/parties from other states, as Melbourne is a shining example on how to have a modern, integrated city with high immigration. The federal/state division of power is a massive reason why Australia is a stable place to live, and its major cities rank so highly. State governments control social services, heath, education, police etc, the things that make a city and country rank highly on quality of life indexes. This leaves federal politics to focus on the negative. The coalition focusing on immigration and terror - the politics of fear - which has little to no bearing on the actual country itself, or cities like Melbourne.
astroturfing
Member
ITT i learned that the Angolan capital is the most expensive city to live in. blows my mind kind of. i don't understand anything about economics apparently, how can a third world city be so expensive that a first world citizen like me couldn't afford to live there? how is it even third world at that point? i'm confused but in a good way i guess.
and WTF at that spider family on the first page. separated by oceans but that nightmarish sight still makes me itchy and scared.
and WTF at that spider family on the first page. separated by oceans but that nightmarish sight still makes me itchy and scared.
I would just be median house prices compared to median wage. The average house price might only be $5000, but if there is mass poverty and the average wage is a few dollars a week, that makes the affordability of the city incredibly high.
So yeah, you could move there and live like a king.
Edit: Actually, looking into this, it's because the Mercer ranking just look at the cost of living for ex-pats. They ignore the GDP, quality of life and cost for local residents. Angola is going though a mining boom, and the cost of apartments that Westerners get charged when they go over the for work is sky high. An average of US$6,800 a month!
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
According to some parts of GAF the white snow in Australia would be racist, where's the black snow? /poor taste joke.
Anyone from Melbourne or actually visiting here rather than reading blown out of proportion media reports would easily understand the diversity within a 20 minute walk in the city or suburbs around it. For anyone that has experienced racism first or second hand that shouldn't happen, in any city or culture but there's always some asshats ready to ruin a good thing, anywhere anytime.
In my primary and high school years within Australia I've had many friends from different races and cultures with the majority of white/euro decent (more like 60% than 99% as some GAF members seem to think). During those similar year levels in NY and LA or Singapore the diversity was nowhere near it. White Plains in NY was a full black school and literally my brother and I were the only white kids period. Scarsdale in NY and the total opposite was true, all white. As for Arcadia in LA it was pretty much all white/euro kids. As for Singapore my brother, sister and I were with only a handful of other Aussie kids in an all Asian school. I enjoyed every one of those schools and I can't say I had any racism thrown my way or participated in any racism myself, same goes for my older brother and sister. In the modern times compared to when I was in those areas I'm sure things have changed dramatically, the entire world is integrating more races and cultures these days.
At the end of the day diversity is Melbourne, always has been and our national immigration, contrary to the media perception, is the second country in the world for welcoming legal immigrants in compared to our national population/ratio. We're a welcoming country and love to host any background of people in our beautiful country.
We have good and bad areas of the city just as any major populace does e.g. smith street drug/crime issues. However those areas also give rise to some awesome people, restaurant concepts, empathetic communities and artistic developments etc.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
How is your internet?
CHECKMATE MOTHERFUCKER.
CHECKMATE MOTHERFUCKER.
PirateKing
Junior Member
Lol at other Aus users trying to butt their city in this thread. Keep on dreaming mates.
P.S Sydney is absolutely shit to live in compared to Melb
P.S Sydney is absolutely shit to live in compared to Melb
Darren870
Member
You lived in White Plains? That's funny, was like 20 mins from me growing up and where my Dad works. Small world...
But yea, spot on. I think everyone's impression of Australia is giant scary animals, crocodile Dundee, with no mans land looking like Mad Max with kangaroos around. Where in reality its nothing like that. Sure you go up to remote areas of Australia and you will have mostly white farmers, but also no one wants to live there but farmers.
People should come to and travel around Australia more. Its very eye opening. After living over seas for so long I told myself I would never go back to working in the US. I could never do it. Its soul sucking. Missus and I talk about going to the US for a few years (she is an Aussie) but I just can't see myself working there again. Unappreciated, long hours, no holiday time, underpaid...its all life draining. My job hasn't changed much in the past 7 years, but my quality of life has only gone up after leaving the US.
I do love home, don't get me wrong.
This is true, but in the CBD and surrounding suburbs you have the NBN which is fast. Least we don't have to deal with comcast....
chicko1983
Member
The booing of Goodes was a very complex issue, and was about more than that celebration he did. He was being booed before then, some of it probably racist (like at the NBA matches I have attended) and the celebration was used to fuel the racist booing. It did not begin because of the celebration, though this was the major catalyst.
I'm not condoning the booing or saying its acceptable in any way, go to that thread to see my response to it.
Similarly, the Sherman issue was very complex. Its wasn't just about what he said on tv. The racism surrounding that saga was more about what was said of his behaviour by the media and how he was portrayed and labelled. You have completely misunderstood that saga if it stopped at the end of that interview for you.
Its completely unrealistic to believe that racism is isolated by a country's borders and that every person within the borders are racist. That sort of belief is very stereotypical and almost racist in itself.
I'm a dark skinned Australian, and very proud of my country.
Does racism exist in Australia? Yes, definitely.
Do I think that Australia is the most tolerant and accepting and least racist country in the world? Yes, based on everywhere I have been.
I'm still waiting for NBN to be rolled out to my suburb. In the mean time, I am on Optus Cable, and get 70mbs with no data caps. It costs $90 a month and includes a land line with free national calls and cheap international, as well as an IPTV service.
So yeah, like most things over here, internet is expensive, but internet speed and access in Melbourne is fine. Speeds and availability nosedive once you go to rural places or the far outer suburbs.
"Crime statistics in NSW and Victoria do not routinely record the race or ethnicity of victims of crime.
...
This is where the lack of evidence forces us to accept an inadequate evidence verdict."
The conclusion of this article is literally, we don't collect stats so I'm gonna say no.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Interesting bit about our White Plains school was Aerosmith band members went there years earlier and had a graffiti mural thingy of the band name in a broken out mirror in one of the bathrooms. NYC is an experience and well worth travelling to.
LA was just concrete and traffic even back then, although being close to Disneyland was pure joy for me as a kid. American theme parks are something else, the best anywhere. Scarsdale NY was very similar to living in Australia though but expensive as, we wouldn't have lived there if it wasn't for dad's work at the time.
I won't live anywhere but Australia anymore but I do travel still and have a USA trip planning now with our young kids. My sister still lives in the US and has moved through 3 states with her born and bred yankie kids
Travelling should be in the top 5 of everyone's bucket list, as you say it's an eye opener, a life full of memories and breeds understanding beyond just your own local environment and people.
Because the infrastructure is so shit the cost of things like food, water, electricity etc is out of this world. There's a recent New Yorker article on it, worth a read.
This thread makes me want to finally take the plunge and move to melbourne. It feels like I have more friends there than at home these days anyway...
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
It's number 1 because I live here. Obviously.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Hey, we have the bridge and the Opera House which are nice. Better climate and beaches too. Mostly though, it's where all my stuff is.
Uh, what? Do you have any examples of NBA players being booed due to racism?
turtlesbonanza
Member
Word.
It's a list of livability the city is quite well for that.
If we are strictly talking about entertainment though... 😶
chicko1983
Member
No, none specifically, but that not my point.
Out of the hundreds, maybe thousands, of people I saw booing I am sure there were some booing because of race. Just like what was happening to Adam Goodes before his dance fuelled the excessive booing because of race.
That's the fact of the matter, whether you like to admit it or not - there are racist jerks in every city in the world. No country is immune from it.
Some countries have fewer racists than others - yeah I can agree with that statement.
Entire countries are full of racists - I don't agree with that.
Entire cities are racist free - I also don't agree with that.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Nah the Adam Goode's thing is the dumbest racist shit. You don't show that it's not racist by doubling down on it.
Sir Alemeth
Member
*if you are white.
Who said I didnt't like to admit it? Of course there are racist jerks all over the place, but your comparison sucked.
You were trying to equate the NBA and sports in America with what happened to Adam Goode. The problem is that nothing comparable like that has happened recently in the NBA or American sports. There has been no prolonged booing of a player every time he touched the ball for two years out of racism, politics, and aboriginal rights. Now, I am sure you'll be all like, but not all of them are racists! I don't give a shit. If they particpate in that sort of booing then they are fueling and perpetuating racism. Plain and simple.
I mean, hell, you really don't hear about racist taunts in American sports but you hear about it quite a bit in Europe and Australia. So yea, your comparison made no fucking sense and was just a blatant attempt to try to suggest "see! Australia isnt so bad! Other nations do it too!" Too bad, in this instance America doesnt do that.
Now, I am not saying America isnt racist, because with all of the police violence, confederate flag and institutional racism threads on GAF it should be pretty fucking obvious that racism, and especially institutional racism is alive and well in America, but if you are going to pull the 'its not so bad because other nations do it card' (which I hate) then you sure as shit better get your comparison right.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
chicko1983
Member
Slow down dude. Im not downplaying the Goodes saga one bit. Go to that thread to see my opinion of that.
No, The Second Spitter was trying to paint the picture that there is no racism in the cities he has lived (including NYC) in except for Sydney. I was telling him that is an unrealistic view of racism based on my own personal experiences. He is white, I am black.
Well, then he has some issues, but you shouldnt make crap comparisons just to make a point and shouldnt downplay the Goode saga, because yes, calling it a complex issue and saying that not all of the people booing were racists is downplaying it. It seems pretty obvious to me what it is about and what those 'non-racists' who were also booing were doing.
But yea, I probably went a bit overboard. I skipped to the last page, saw that shit and got kinda ticked. If you couldnt guess, 'this place has the same bad shit too' crap really annoys me. But if you weren't trying to downplay it and just arguing with someone who inexplicably thinks that racism doesnt exist in America, then, well, that makes some sense.
chicko1983
Member
no worries mate.
My Goodes comment was in reply to the Second Spitter saying the booing was a direct response to his indigenous celebration. It wasn't. He was copping racist booing before then, I am sure of it. However, things definitely escalated following the celebration.
Damascus
What a moronic statement. Pull your head out.
Sydney don't give a shit, seriously.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I like the food.
And yet that tends to be a large section of the nation's response to accusations of racism. Europe and the US have the same problem, and everyone tries to deny it, but I have a vested interest in seeing this country improve because I live here.
That would explain why Melbourne is better, Sydney's not even trying
Must be!
The only thing these lists always fail to account for is our atrocious public transport. Have they not a train ride here?
Apart from that though, hell yeah. It's the reason why I wanted to move back after a few years in exile working overseas. Great coffee, lots of great exotic restaurants, living costs decent compared to Sydney, great schools, awesome art galleries, live indie music, all in a multicultural and friendly place.
There's racism, but then again there's racism everywhere. As an Australian born Chinese, I've only encountered it during the anti-Asian era of the 90s, but even then I received more support than vicious harassment.
Apart from that though, hell yeah. It's the reason why I wanted to move back after a few years in exile working overseas. Great coffee, lots of great exotic restaurants, living costs decent compared to Sydney, great schools, awesome art galleries, live indie music, all in a multicultural and friendly place.
There's racism, but then again there's racism everywhere. As an Australian born Chinese, I've only encountered it during the anti-Asian era of the 90s, but even then I received more support than vicious harassment.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I think your head was down under where his comment flew.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
This topic has made me even more excited to visit. I doubt the place is as racist as has been joked about in here. This will be really fun.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
It's not.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Well, you know, the issue is how you measure and quantify "racism". Australia, Melbourne included, has the same problems every other Western, predominantly white culture has (which is not exclusive) in varying degrees. Australia has, like the US, a problem with admitting racial issues within culture, politics, entertainment, and so on. And that's not really a criticism, just a casual observation of how the world works and what we should strive as a society to overcome.
That being said, the reputation of Melbourne being this hyper racist hotspot is quite bizarre to me. A bias I'm sure, given I'm a middle class late-20s white male and thus have the world to my advantage. But nevertheless, being out and about in Melbourne will quickly exposure you to a vast cultural diversity in food, entertainment, and people. Melbourne as a city openly embraces celebrations, performances, art, music, and food from more or less everywhere on Earth. It's one of the reasons I love living; excellent cuisine and art culture sampled from everywhere.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Browsing Facebook and saw this shared a few times:
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/sorr...ble-city-doesnt-mean-shit?utm_source=vicefbca
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/sorr...ble-city-doesnt-mean-shit?utm_source=vicefbca
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Australia: An American's View..just popped up on my Facebook feed.
Interesting set of observations from a visitor from the other side of the Pacific.'Value what you have and don't give it away.' There's a lot to admire about Australia, especially if you're a visiting American, says David Mason. More often than you might expect, Australian friends patiently listening to me enthuse about their country have said, ''We need outsiders like you to remind us what we have.'' So here it is - a small presumptuous list of what one foreigner admires in Oz.
1... Health care. I know the controversies, but basic national health care is a gift. In America, medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy. The drug companies dominate politics and advertising.
Obama is being crucified for taking halting baby steps towards sanity. You can't turn on the telly without hours of drug advertisements - something I have never yet seen here. And your emphasis on prevention - making cigarettes less accessible, for one - is a model.
2... Food. Yes, we have great food in America too, especially in the big cities.
But your bread is less sweet, your lamb is cheaper, and your supermarket vegetables and fruits are fresher than ours.
Too often in my country an apple is a ball of pulp as big as your face.
The dainty Pink Lady apples of Oz are the juiciest I've had. And don't get me started on coffee.
In American small towns it tastes like water flavoured with burnt dirt, but the smallest shop in the smallest town in Oz can make a first-rate latte.
I love your ubiquitous bakeries, your hot-cross buns. Shall I go on?
3... Language. How do you do it?
The rhyming slang and Aboriginal place names like magic spells.
Words that seem vaguely English yet also resemble an argot from another planet.
I love the way institutional names get turned into diminutives - Vinnie's and Salvos - and absolutely nothing's sacred.
Everything's an opportunity for word games and everyone's a nickname.
Lingo makes the world go round.
It's the spontaneous wit of the people that tickles me most.
Late one night at a barbie my new mate Suds remarked, ''Nothing's the same since 24-7.'' Amen.
4... Free-to-air TV. In Oz, you buy a TV, plug it in and watch some of the best programming I've ever seen - uncensored.
In America, you can't get diddly-squat without paying a cable or satellite company heavy fees.
In Oz a few channels make it hard to choose.
In America, you've got 400 channels and nothing to watch.
5... Small shops. Outside the big cities in America corporations have nearly erased them.
Identical malls with identical restaurants serving inferior food.
Except for geography, it's hard to tell one American town from another.
The ''take-away'' culture here is wonderful.
Human encounters are real - stirring happens, stories get told.
The curries are to die for. And you don't have to tip!
6... Free camping. We used to have this too, and I guess it's still free when you backpack miles away from the roads.
But I love the fact that in Oz everyone owns the shore and in many places you can pull up a camper van and stare at the sea for weeks.
I love the ''primitive'' and independent campgrounds, the life out of doors.
The few idiots who leave their stubbies and rubbish behind in these pristine places ought to be transported in chains.
7... Religion. In America, it's everywhere - especially where it's not supposed to be, like politics.
I imagine you have your Pharisees too, making a big public show of devotion, but I have yet to meet one here.
8... Roads. Peak hour aside, I've found travel on your roads pure heaven.
My country's ''freeways'' are crowded, crumbling, insanely knotted with looping overpasses - it's like racing homicidal maniacs on fraying spaghetti.
I've taken the Hume without stress, and I love the Princes Highway when it's two lanes.
Ninety minutes south of Bateman's Bay I was sorry to see one billboard for a McDonald's.
It's blocking a lovely paddock view. Someone should remove it.
9... Real multiculturalism. I know there are tensions, just like anywhere else, but I love the distinctiveness of your communities and the way you publicly acknowledge the Aboriginal past.
Recently, too, I spent quality time with Melbourne Greeks, and was gratified both by their devotion to their own great language and culture and their openness to an Afghan lunch.
10. Fewer guns. You had Port Arthur in 1996 and got real in response. America replicates such massacres several times a year and nothing changes.
Why?
Our religion of individual rights makes the good of the community an impossible dream.
Instead of mateship we have ''It's mine and nobody else's''.
We talk a great game about freedom, but too often live in fear.
There's more to say - your kaleidoscopic birds, your perfumed bush in springtime, your vast beaches.
These are just a few blessings that make Australia a rarity.
Of course, it's not paradise - nowhere is - but I love it here.
No need to wave flags like Americans and add to the world's windiness.
Just value what you have and don't give it away.
David Mason is a US writer and professor, and poet laureate of Colorado.
Interesting set of observations from a visitor from the other side of the Pacific.'Value what you have and don't give it away.' There's a lot to admire about Australia, especially if you're a visiting American, says David Mason. More often than you might expect, Australian friends patiently listening to me enthuse about their country have said, ''We need outsiders like you to remind us what we have.'' So here it is - a small presumptuous list of what one foreigner admires in Oz.
1... Health care. I know the controversies, but basic national health care is a gift. In America, medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy. The drug companies dominate politics and advertising.
Obama is being crucified for taking halting baby steps towards sanity. You can't turn on the telly without hours of drug advertisements - something I have never yet seen here. And your emphasis on prevention - making cigarettes less accessible, for one - is a model.
2... Food. Yes, we have great food in America too, especially in the big cities.
But your bread is less sweet, your lamb is cheaper, and your supermarket vegetables and fruits are fresher than ours.
Too often in my country an apple is a ball of pulp as big as your face.
The dainty Pink Lady apples of Oz are the juiciest I've had. And don't get me started on coffee.
In American small towns it tastes like water flavoured with burnt dirt, but the smallest shop in the smallest town in Oz can make a first-rate latte.
I love your ubiquitous bakeries, your hot-cross buns. Shall I go on?
3... Language. How do you do it?
The rhyming slang and Aboriginal place names like magic spells.
Words that seem vaguely English yet also resemble an argot from another planet.
I love the way institutional names get turned into diminutives - Vinnie's and Salvos - and absolutely nothing's sacred.
Everything's an opportunity for word games and everyone's a nickname.
Lingo makes the world go round.
It's the spontaneous wit of the people that tickles me most.
Late one night at a barbie my new mate Suds remarked, ''Nothing's the same since 24-7.'' Amen.
4... Free-to-air TV. In Oz, you buy a TV, plug it in and watch some of the best programming I've ever seen - uncensored.
In America, you can't get diddly-squat without paying a cable or satellite company heavy fees.
In Oz a few channels make it hard to choose.
In America, you've got 400 channels and nothing to watch.
5... Small shops. Outside the big cities in America corporations have nearly erased them.
Identical malls with identical restaurants serving inferior food.
Except for geography, it's hard to tell one American town from another.
The ''take-away'' culture here is wonderful.
Human encounters are real - stirring happens, stories get told.
The curries are to die for. And you don't have to tip!
6... Free camping. We used to have this too, and I guess it's still free when you backpack miles away from the roads.
But I love the fact that in Oz everyone owns the shore and in many places you can pull up a camper van and stare at the sea for weeks.
I love the ''primitive'' and independent campgrounds, the life out of doors.
The few idiots who leave their stubbies and rubbish behind in these pristine places ought to be transported in chains.
7... Religion. In America, it's everywhere - especially where it's not supposed to be, like politics.
I imagine you have your Pharisees too, making a big public show of devotion, but I have yet to meet one here.
8... Roads. Peak hour aside, I've found travel on your roads pure heaven.
My country's ''freeways'' are crowded, crumbling, insanely knotted with looping overpasses - it's like racing homicidal maniacs on fraying spaghetti.
I've taken the Hume without stress, and I love the Princes Highway when it's two lanes.
Ninety minutes south of Bateman's Bay I was sorry to see one billboard for a McDonald's.
It's blocking a lovely paddock view. Someone should remove it.
9... Real multiculturalism. I know there are tensions, just like anywhere else, but I love the distinctiveness of your communities and the way you publicly acknowledge the Aboriginal past.
Recently, too, I spent quality time with Melbourne Greeks, and was gratified both by their devotion to their own great language and culture and their openness to an Afghan lunch.
10. Fewer guns. You had Port Arthur in 1996 and got real in response. America replicates such massacres several times a year and nothing changes.
Why?
Our religion of individual rights makes the good of the community an impossible dream.
Instead of mateship we have ''It's mine and nobody else's''.
We talk a great game about freedom, but too often live in fear.
There's more to say - your kaleidoscopic birds, your perfumed bush in springtime, your vast beaches.
These are just a few blessings that make Australia a rarity.
Of course, it's not paradise - nowhere is - but I love it here.
No need to wave flags like Americans and add to the world's windiness.
Just value what you have and don't give it away.
David Mason is a US writer and professor, and poet laureate of Colorado.
Transit is kind of shit too IMO.
- Status