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[iapetus]

Would it be a unpopular opinion to say that The Hitchhiker's Guide was a better movie than book?

I don't know about unpopular, but it would be wrong. Radio series > TV series > Book > Movie.

 

[Furret]

I don't know about unpopular, but it would be wrong. Radio series > TV series > Book > Movie.

Book > Radio series > Game >>>> TV series >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (infinity) Movie.


Fixed.

 

[Apath]

Starship Troopers is an awful movie. I understand where it's coming from with the whole satire thing, but for some reason I just cannot get over how annoying it is to see dozens of troops ignore clusters of insects as three to four troops pepper one two feet away with short bursts of fire.

And alien blood that is blatantly green and orange paint.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Yup, Scott Pilgrim's movie was definitely better than the books. Number six was so bad.

 

[m3k]

another shit list

gaf make a better one

 

[Eteric Rice]

Would it be a unpopular opinion to say that The Hitchhiker's Guide was a better movie than book? I know it's a weird one since it's actually a radio drama first.

Though, my opinion may be completely based off the fact that I liked Mos Def as Ford and Sam Rockwell as Zaphod a lot more than their book counterparts.

I liked the movie too. But no.

NO.

 

[LCfiner]

I could not disagree more with Scott Pilgrim on the list. I really enjoyed the books but found the movie to be too frenetic and the fantasy action did not work for me as live action. Plus Scott’s friends are paper-thin excuses for characters in the movie - it’s a step back. It was also pretty obvious how they changed the ending at the last minute. the transition was very sloppy.

 

[fanboi]

Oh you silly gals and guys.

They never did a movie on Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

 

[raphier]

Oh you silly gals and guys.

They never did a movie on Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371724/ I dare you say so :3

 

[Fallout-NL]

What 'underrated David Bowie album' would that be? (in relation to Blade Runner)

 

[industrian]

Starship Troopers is actually a book about morality and the responsibilities that come with living in a civilisation. But to quote Heinlein himself, people only talk about it "when someone wants to chew me out." It's a stellar work of art, and I'm proud to say it's my favourite novel.

The movie - when viewed from the point-of-view that it's not pissing on Heinlein's grave - is actually brilliant satire of a militarised society like the USA. That and it's infinitely more relevant now than when it was released in 1997.

 

[spiderman123]

Book > Radio series > Game >>>> TV series >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (infinity) Movie.


Fixed.

Radio Series> TV Series> Book> Stage Show> Movie> Game


didn't know there was a game?



Fixed.


edit: but I liked the casting for the movie though.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Do Androids Dream... was far superior to Blade Runner which was pretty great. Respect Philip fuckenK Dick damnit

 

[industrian]

Do Androids Dream... was far superior to Blade Runner which was pretty great. Respect Philip fuckenK Dick damnit

They're apples and oranges really.

I read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep for high school English and I loved it. I watched Blade Runner a few months after (Channel 4 played it the Director's Cut shortly after I finished my report.)

 

[JB1981]

Starship Troopers is actually a book about morality and the responsibilities that come with living in a civilisation. But to quote Heinlein himself, people only talk about it "when someone wants to chew me out." It's a stellar work of art, and I'm proud to say it's my favourite novel.

The movie - when viewed from the point-of-view that it's not pissing on Heinlein's grave - is actually brilliant satire of a militarised society like the USA. That and it's infinitely more relevant now than when it was released in 1997.

It's really not at all a brilliant satire of a militarized American society. It's a crass film made by a man who obviously has not spent much time in America. The satire might work if it was about the Third Reich. Otherwise it's just a dumb, ultra violent b movie about troopers and bugs. I actually find it quite entertaining but please stop suggesting it's some relevant critique of American society. It's insulting.

 

[VistraNorrez]

It's really not at all a brilliant satire of a militarized American society. It's a crass film made by a man who obviously has not spent much time in America. The satire might work if it was about the Third Reich. Otherwise it's just a dumb, ultra violent b movie about troopers and bugs. I actually find it quite entertaining but please stop suggesting it's some relevant critique of American society. It's insulting.

Satires are supposed to be insulting. That's the whole fucking point.

 

[JB1981]

Satires are supposed to be insulting. That's the whole fucking point.

Satires are supposed to reveal uncomfortable truths, that's what make them insulting. This movie is just some Dutch asshole making a very crude comment on American society, which is not rooted in reality. At all.'

 

[Chuckie]

It's really not at all a brilliant satire of a militarized American society. It's a crass film made by a man who obviously has not spent much time in America. The satire might work if it was about the Third Reich. Otherwise it's just a dumb, ultra violent b movie about troopers and bugs. I actually find it quite entertaining but please stop suggesting it's some relevant critique of American society. It's insulting.

He lived in America for 20 years you dumbass.

 

[G.O.O.]

Starship Troopers is actually a book about morality and the responsibilities that come with living in a civilisation. But to quote Heinlein himself, people only talk about it "when someone wants to chew me out." It's a stellar work of art, and I'm proud to say it's my favourite novel.

Problem is, if the book can be interpretated as a fascist apology, with nothing to say that it's not, then it probably means that the author failed somewhere in writing it (or that he really has questionable opinions that he may have to accept). In my opinion, anyway.

Could you tell more about the morality & responsibilities, please ?

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Satires are supposed to be insulting. That's the whole fucking point.

I think you're wrong. It's nothing like how the US Military does things. Kids in the US are given a pretty honest view of combat operations overseas before they enlist. The stuff they glamorize is intended to entice skilled and educated kids to enlist in non combat stuff. I thought Starship Troopers is only enjoyable if you view it as if it were a propaganda film from the future, but even then a lot of the scenes don't make much sense in that view

 

[spiderman123]

I think you're wrong. It's nothing like how the US Military does things. Kids in the US are given a pretty honest view of combat operations overseas before they enlist. The stuff they glamorize is intended to entice skilled and educated kids to enlist in non combat stuff. I thought Starship Troopers is only enjoyable if you view it as if it were a propaganda film from the future, but even then a lot of the scenes don't make much sense in that view

Wait aren't we considering the timeline the book came out. Military Propaganda was a huge thing back then.

 

[JB1981]

He lived in America for 20 years you dumbass.

Wow. Then that makes his observations of American society even more batshit insane.

 

[Chuckie]

Wow. Then that makes his observations of American society even more batshit insane.

It's his prediction of the future of the USA. In his opinion a post World War America would automatically lead to facism in the end. You can agree or disagree with that but arguments as "Dutch asshole" and "obviously not spent much time in America" are quite dumb.

Some people seem to think a satire is a realistic representation of a situation. It's not... it's a dark kind of comedy. So the pretty boy/girl army in ST is NOT a representation of the US Army, it is a parody of the army Verhoeven THINKS the US will have in the future.

 

[JGS]

I hope this has been said multiple times, but they are talking crazy if they think the movie JP is better than the book. I like the movie just fine, but it's not even close.

The movie should be remade to the book's story now that the tech allows it.

 

[industrian]

Problem is, if the book can be interpretated as a fascist apology, with nothing to say that it's not, then it probably means that the author failed somewhere in writing it (or that he really has questionable opinions that he may have to accept). In my opinion, anyway.

Could you tell more about the morality & responsibilities, please ?

Anything can be interpretated in any way by anybody. Especially by left-wingers with an agenda.

As for the morality aspect, some choice quotes that will probably be torn into by GAF's resident lefties:

"Morals— all correct moral laws— derive from the instinct to survive. Moral behavior is survival behavior above the individual level."

"Correct morality can only be derived from what man is—not from what do-gooders and well-meaning aunt Nellies would like him to be."

I'd recommend to anyone with an open mind to read the book. I'm left-wing myself but I think that everything Heinlein wrote in that book is close to the truth. We've painted ourselves as being above & beyond every other creature on the planet because we've created art, science, math and all sorts of civilised stuff - but at the end of the day we're just animals (an expansionist one at that) and we exist by the laws that govern all animals. That's Heinlein's point with the novel. The backdrop of the war against the Bugs is an excellent context for it to be exploited.

 

[G.O.O.]

So the pretty boy/girl army in ST is NOT a representation of the US Army, it is a parody of the army Verhoeven THINKS the US will have in the future.

I see it as a parody of what he thinks is cool in the mind of the average American. Cool teenagers, cool soldiers, cool fine sentiments etc.

 

[industrian]

Some people seem to think a satire is a realistic representation of a situation. It's not... it's a dark kind of comedy. So the pretty boy/girl army in ST is NOT a representation of the US Army, it is a parody of the army Verhoeven THINKS the US will have in the future.

Oh for fucks sake let me finish this discussion now:

Have you ever seen the movie: The Triumph of the Will? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will

Verhoeven made Starship Troopers the movie in the same style as that movie. It's intended to be a propaganda movie for the universe it inhabits. I thought that the ending made that perfectly clear.

 

[JGS]

I thought he was making fun of patriotism in general. In fact, I can't see it as any other way since it seemed fairly obvious. I think he nailed it too.

Military propaganda is still a big thing. The latest commercials are setup like Halo.

 

[DrForester]

That inst true.

Spoiler

Hammond was dead

in The Lost World and

Spoiler

Malcom's death

was always vague just enough that it was ok that Crichton

Spoiler

brought him back

for The Lost World.

Malcolm's death was anything but vague in the book.

 

[Manics]

Asides from Watership Down (so fucking wrong there), I can see where they're coming from.

But so fucking wrong on Watership Down.

So fucking wrong.

I came here to post this. Anyone who doesn't appreciate the book Watership Down and thinks the movie is better, fuck. The book is all kinds of awesome.

 

[JayDubya]

Honestly, the ST society is basically like the mandatory civil service thing that many seem to want to bring to the US and you DO see in many countries nowadays.

You have to do your two years for your country; if you opt out, you're not a full citizen and you can't vote.

Not a fan of the notion at all, and I am generally a fan of Heinlein. Couldn't rightfully tell you if Heinlein actually thought that was a good idea. Heinlein was quite vehemently and vocally anti-communist: see "I am generally a fan of Heinlein."

Film was rubbish. Liked it as a teen for the sci-fi violence and tits.

Topless Robot am fail.

 

[Peru]

Honestly, the ST society is basically like the mandatory civil service thing that many seem to want to bring to the US and you DO see in many countries nowadays.

Well it's not like that at all, of course. Other than the mandatory service part, what are the similarities?

Anyway, Starship Troopers is brilliant. It's very funny on many levels.

 

[xxracerxx]

Malcolm's death was anything but vague in the book.

You're right, I just flipped through the book again.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

how can anyone hate Verhoeven? his movies are always balls out entertaining. Starshiptroopers is genious. The SFX hold up really well.

 

[Chuckie]

Oh for fucks sake let me finish this discussion now:

Have you ever seen the movie: The Triumph of the Will? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will

Verhoeven made Starship Troopers the movie in the same style as that movie. It's intended to be a propaganda movie for the universe it inhabits. I thought that the ending made that perfectly clear.

Unlike the Nazi-propaganda it is already clear when watching the movie what the message is. The message of Triumph is not: "War makes us fascists", which is according to Verhoeven exactly what the message was of ST. He already uses 'propaganda' within the movie (which was indeed inspired by Triumph) so I don't see how the film itself is intended as propaganda. I do think he wants you to root for the humans, understand the facist rules because 'hey its war'... and then suddenly realise something is very wrong. He leads you from "Yaaay" to "Naaay" Which is not like a propaganda film wich is "yaaaay" from beginning to ending.

But thats just my opinion.

 

[industrian]

Honestly, the ST society is basically like the mandatory civil service thing that many seem to want to bring to the US and you DO see in many countries nowadays.

You have to do your two years for your country; if you opt out, you're not a full citizen and you can't vote.

Not a fan of the notion at all, and I am generally a fan of Heinlein. Couldn't rightfully tell you if Heinlein actually thought that was a good idea. Heinlein was quite vehemently and vocally anti-communist: see "I am generally a fan of Heinlein."

You're wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Heinlein despised the concept of mandatory civil service. Here's a quote from the big man himself:

"I also think there are prices too high to pay to save the United States. Conscription is one of them. Conscription is slavery, and I don't think that any people or nation has a right to save itself at the price of slavery for anyone, no matter what name it is called. We have had the draft for twenty years now; I think this is shameful. If a country can't save itself through the volunteer service of its own free people, then I say : Let the damned thing go down the drain!"

One of the points made by Heinlein in Starship Troopers was that the act of citizenship was something precious that you had earned through volunteering to put the needs of the many above your own.

Another quote from the book itself:

"But if you want to serve and I can't talk you out of it, then we have to take you, because that's your constitutional right. It says that everybody, male or female, should have his born right to pay his service and assume full citizenship -- but the facts are that we are getting hard pushed to find things for all the volunteers to do that aren't just glorified KP. You can't all be real military men; we don't need that many and most of the volunteers aren't number-one soldier material anyhow...[W]e've had to think up a whole list of dirty, nasty, dangerous jobs that will...at the very least make them remember for the rest of their lives that their citizenship is valuable to them because they've paid a high price for it...A term of service is...either real military service, rough and dangerous even in peacetime...or a most unreasonable facsimile thereof".

 

[G.O.O.]

I'd recommend to anyone with an open mind to read the book. I'm left-wing myself but I think that everything Heinlein wrote in that book is close to the truth. We've painted ourselves as being above & beyond every other creature on the planet because we've created art, science, math and all sorts of civilised stuff - but at the end of the day we're just animals (an expansionist one at that) and we exist by the laws that govern all animals. That's Heinlein's point with the novel. The backdrop of the war against the Bugs is an excellent context for it to be exploited.

From what I've read about Heinlein, it's probably more complex that "people need a strong military state to survive", since his second book made people think he's an anarchist.

These quotes are interesting. I'm also a left-winger but I kinda agree with them. Thanks for your answer, I may check it out.

 

[JayDubya]

how can anyone hate Verhoeven? his movies are always balls out entertaining. Starshiptroopers is genious. The SFX hold up really well.

Robocop and Total Recall are solid action flicks, and I can say that even though they come with wanton "look, see, businesses are evil!" content.

By Comparison, I don't think ST holds up very well.

 

[industrian]

Unlike the Nazi-propaganda it is already clear when watching the movie what the message is. The message of Triumph is not: "War makes us fascists", which is according to Verhoeven exactly what the message was of ST. He already uses 'propaganda' within the movie (which was indeed inspired by Triumph) so I don't see how the film itself is intended as propaganda. I do think he wants you to root for the humans, understand the facist rules because 'hey its war'... and then suddenly realise something is very wrong. He leads you from "Yaaay" to "Naaay" Which is not like a propaganda film wich is "yaaaay" from beginning to ending.

But thats just my opinion.

All of the characters look stunningly attractive, the armour and ships ares polished to a fine sheen, the humans are always seen as being weak and easily beaten by superior bugs and so on and so forth. The movie is intended to resonate with people within it's own universe to encourage them to fight "Just like Ibanez [...] Rico" like the ending narration says. Hell it even has a "They'll keep on fighting, and they'll win!" banner on the screen. It's pretty clear.

I used Triumph of the Will as it's by far the most superior piece of propaganda ever made. It's an absolutely genius movie - revolutionary in it's time, inspired filmmakers for decades, and generally granted a lot of support for Hitler and his forces in the west. But then the war came and the façade was exposed. It's obvious that it was a major inspiration for Verhoeven when he made his movie.

 

[sixteen-bit]

No way in hell SP is better than the comics.

Let the Right One In movie was way better than the book. The remake is supposed to be good too.

 

[JayDubya]

You're wrong. Absolutely wrong.

I didn't assert that he did. I said: "Not a fan of the notion at all, and I am generally a fan of Heinlein. Couldn't rightfully tell you if Heinlein actually thought that was a good idea."

I'm not wrong that I couldn't tell you if Heinlein thought that was a good idea. I couldn't have told you. :lol Thank you for the clarity.

Heinlein despised the concept of mandatory civil service. Here's a quote from the big man himself

Well yeah, conscription is slavery, no doubt there, and that sounds more like Heinlein, of course. Perhaps mandatory wasn't the right word, but many so-called "mandatory civil service" proposals frequently have opt-outs and or don't really have any way of compelling you anyway.

I guess I'm looking at the other way; the ST society views full citizenship as a privilege that must be earned through 2 years service. If you were to move, say, our society in this country right now to that model, one could easily say that for someone to maintain the level of citizenship they have right now, they must serve 2 years, or they will be penalized with a loss.

But of course, politics is all about calling the same objective fact very different things to get your perspective to win. :lol

 

[Chuckie]

All of the characters look stunningly attractive, the armour and ships ares polished to a fine sheen, the humans are always seen as being weak and easily beaten by superior bugs and so on and so forth. The movie is intended to resonate with people within it's own universe to encourage them to fight "Just like Ibanez [...] Rico" like the ending narration says. Hell it even has a "They'll keep on fighting, and they'll win!" banner on the screen. It's pretty clear.

That's all propaganda within the movie, not the movie itself. Like I said I agree he is misleading us, but I also think he is steering us towards the 'truth' and by pumping in some more propaganda at the end show the ridicoulous difference between the truth (experimenting with brainbug) and propaganda. The banner.

So for me it starts as a movie where you 'believe' the propaganda (so to say) and while watching it you notice how different reality is from that propaganda, making that same propaganda absolutely ridicoulous in the end of the movie. That propaganda is only ridicoulous because we as viewer have already been shown the truth. Propaganda movies don't show that truth, hence I don't see this as propaganda but trickery by the director.

(And I can accept that the first part could very well be build as a nazipropaganda movie, but I do believe in the end it shows the huge discrepancy between propaganda and truth)

 

[industrian]

From what I've read about Heinlein, it's probably more complex that "people need a strong military state to survive", since his second book made people think he's an anarchist.

There's nothing about "strong military state" about Starship Troopers. The human government within the novel is a democracy, albeit that the right to vote and run for office is only issued to those who have served and finished (key word) voluntary military service - and in doing so have proven that they have earned the right to do so by demonstrating an ability to put the needs of the many above their own.

 

[Amalthea]

comparing mediums is a bad idea anyway, but in terms of impact within their own there is absolutely no disputing that jurassic park the movie is a bigger deal. imagine if someone said jurassic park was one of their all-time favourite novels!

I do, that doesn't mean that I've been reading much better books.
You can alway have a "subjective" and an "objective" favourite-list.

 

[Zonar]

better then the comic.

 

[RyanDG]

better then the comic.

...Really? Like, really, really?

 

[Zonar]

...Really? Like, really, really?

really. its almost the exact same except the ending is much better.

 

[eggybob]

better then the comic.

Just the ending maybe

 

[The Technomancer]

I do, that doesn't mean that I've been reading much better books.
You can alway have a "subjective" and an "objective" favourite-list.

Yup. I have some books and movies and especially games that I know objectively aren't that great, but I enjoy anyway.

 

[JimtotheHum]

Lord of the Rings would be my No 1-