distantmantra
Member
Need some help with the second part of stage 21 (Endless Waltz). I keep a getting a game over. Am I not killing the Serpents fast enough?
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The 3rd Super Robot Wars Z - Jigoku-hen |OT| Localized when hell chapter freezes over
- Thread starter Shouta
- Start date
Lostconfused
Member
I think you just have to reach the target area?
distantmantra
Member
I did. Nothin' happened. I typically have no language issues with these games with my reading skills, but I'm feeling like my Nihongo isn't strong enough to figure this out on my own. Argh.
Lostconfused
Member
1 Destroy all enemies in 5 turns
2 Destroy all Serpents in 5 turns
3 Heero reaches the "Peace Memorial Hall" (or whatever the target point is named) within 5 turns
I think thats what its supposed to be? Oh objective 2 will pop up after reinforcements appear on the map.
The 2nd objective is also an SR point requirement so I'd think you only have to fulfil a single victory condition.
distantmantra
Member
Huh. I read it right, but the game doesn't like me or something. The 2nd one is the SR point requirement so I was ignoring it and just heading for the Hall. That's really weird. I cleared the path, put Heero in the Hall like the condition said, but the stage kept on. Must have hit a glitch. I guess I'll try again later tonight. Thanks for the encouragement, man.
Shouta
Member
Lostconfused
Member
Right since it needs one of the characters from the IF route, plot wise. I can't imagine I fulfilled any secret conditions for Aquarion.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I thought you got that free on the IF route.
So those "requirements" he mentioned in the description were for the IF route then...
Oh well.
At least I'll be able to get it automatically if I ever do a second playthrough.
Getting
Game is picking up a bit. I kind of feel like Z3-1 is a non-game almost in that the entire game is just building up for Z3-2.
Maruda, Quess and Gyunei to ACE in like 4 stages, 2 of which are not heavy on grunts and Mikene gods was....>_< But I did it, so hopefully will get to keep Maruda.
Game is picking up a bit. I kind of feel like Z3-1 is a non-game almost in that the entire game is just building up for Z3-2.
The whole game is just about the coming of the spiral nemesis and the chaos as different parties try to stop that from happening in their different ways. I feel like by the time anything actually happens there'll be five stages and then a to-be-continued and Z3-2 will be the meat of the plot.
Z2-1 felt a lot more self-contained. I'm pretty surprised I'm 46 stages into a 60 stage SRW and there's been zero OG plot so far besides "hey look here are the bad guys! The lead bad guy has a sphere! There's a time prison! We have to break it!". The DS games have more OG plot than this! It's very different from Z2-1 which had a ton of OG stuff going on with Carlos/Shione/Elgan/Aimu/Gaiou/Ester. This has like 4 OG characters (Good guy/girl pair & badguy+girl pair) and that's it.
I think I'm going to be a lot more happy with Z3-2.
Fwiw, I will give Shouta credit that the way Mazinger is integrated into the humans vs. baal over the cycles is well written.
Z2-1 felt a lot more self-contained. I'm pretty surprised I'm 46 stages into a 60 stage SRW and there's been zero OG plot so far besides "hey look here are the bad guys! The lead bad guy has a sphere! There's a time prison! We have to break it!". The DS games have more OG plot than this! It's very different from Z2-1 which had a ton of OG stuff going on with Carlos/Shione/Elgan/Aimu/Gaiou/Ester. This has like 4 OG characters (Good guy/girl pair & badguy+girl pair) and that's it.
I think I'm going to be a lot more happy with Z3-2.
Fwiw, I will give Shouta credit that the way Mazinger is integrated into the humans vs. baal over the cycles is well written.
Shouta
Member
Well the OG plot is pretty heavy in this game, the only problem is that the main character's plot isn't tied in just yet. That's the issue. It's about L level of story, as it has stuff going and but feels disconnected. We're actually getting more with Tengoku-hen though. That will connect the Hibiki/Suzune stuff. Z2-1 is definitely more self-contained but that's partially because they have events of their own in that. The OG events in this are like totally tied to other series.
Lostconfused
Member
Its self contained in the same way OG1 would be self contained if the game ended with the inspectors invading the moon cradle. The way the game ends is rather bullshit, even if Hibiki's arc is resolved before you even get to the final stage.
Btw, Advant is the worst character ever.
He better be revealed to be the super villain at the end of this game and the "Tenshi" that killed Hibiki's family.
If he's actually a "good" character with all bishounen glittering white knight and smile looks and white robo...god, I think I'm going to throw up. How generic and boring of a character can you get. I got really upset when characters reacted to Advant saying "He seems geniune and that he's not lying and actually a good guy" because ugh, that's so boring.
If he's actually a "good" character with all bishounen glittering white knight and smile looks and white robo...god, I think I'm going to throw up. How generic and boring of a character can you get. I got really upset when characters reacted to Advant saying "He seems geniune and that he's not lying and actually a good guy" because ugh, that's so boring.
Errr, thanks for the spoiler?
But since he's such a worthless character in this game I can't really care much about that even. Now I'm just even more disappointed he didn't turn out to be anything interesting. I mean it would've been soooo much better if he was just putting on a good guy sparkling glitter happy face act and was actually the angel psychopath that Hibiki was chasing. Basically that he pretends to help and be Hibiki's friend just to play with him because he's such a creepy psycho and then all the sudden at some point he's like "oh btw, I killed your whole family and their screams were the best (trollface)".
Because as he is, he's not even like the cool dashing support good guy whose wise and mysterious and helps Hibiki out. He's just this ultra lame looking guy who stops in FOR PEACE AND LOVE once in a while and his mech and attacks aren't even particularly cool looking. He's a piece of cardboard. Compared to the depth and quality of the OG characters in the @ and Z series, he feels really out of place and comical in a bad way.
Not sure what the point of his character is. At least Vargas sort of works as a revenge pawn character being used by Chrono/Federation. Advant is just...boring.
I have to say playing Z3, I really miss Gaiou; he was a great antagonist. Even the king dude who was the boss of Z3-2 was pretty interesting. So far Gadlight is mildly interesting, but everyone else OG is boring, including Hibiki who started of pretty cool in the first 5-10 maps, but has had like zero character development/growth for the rest of the game until where I am in stage 46.
But since he's such a worthless character in this game I can't really care much about that even. Now I'm just even more disappointed he didn't turn out to be anything interesting. I mean it would've been soooo much better if he was just putting on a good guy sparkling glitter happy face act and was actually the angel psychopath that Hibiki was chasing. Basically that he pretends to help and be Hibiki's friend just to play with him because he's such a creepy psycho and then all the sudden at some point he's like "oh btw, I killed your whole family and their screams were the best (trollface)".
Because as he is, he's not even like the cool dashing support good guy whose wise and mysterious and helps Hibiki out. He's just this ultra lame looking guy who stops in FOR PEACE AND LOVE once in a while and his mech and attacks aren't even particularly cool looking. He's a piece of cardboard. Compared to the depth and quality of the OG characters in the @ and Z series, he feels really out of place and comical in a bad way.
Not sure what the point of his character is. At least Vargas sort of works as a revenge pawn character being used by Chrono/Federation. Advant is just...boring.
I have to say playing Z3, I really miss Gaiou; he was a great antagonist. Even the king dude who was the boss of Z3-2 was pretty interesting. So far Gadlight is mildly interesting, but everyone else OG is boring, including Hibiki who started of pretty cool in the first 5-10 maps, but has had like zero character development/growth for the rest of the game until where I am in stage 46.
I think the difference really is that Z2-1 and Z2-2 felt like 2 separate but connected games, a game and its sequel. Like Tales of Xillia 1 & 2. Z3-1 feels like half a game and Z3-2 will be the other half.
Shouta
Member
You should check where folks are in the progress lol.
There's supposed to be more to that char but it'll be in Tengoku-hen, I think.
Tengoku-hen has a lot of OG stuff to deal with. I mean they even brought up Carlos in Z3-1 so far going "we never really did find out what his reasons were...." which sounds like they're going to tell them either in the rest of Z3-1 (doubt it) or in Z3-2. Which makes me a little happy because Carlos was a great character and I'd like more time spent on him in the Z universe. BRING HIM BACK FROM THE DEAD PLZ.
I still don't know. It sounds like they're pushing all the plot exposition and development for the final game, and I gotta wonder how they'll handle that along with all the anime stuff.
I guess I'm kind of worried that Tengoku-hen will barely have any new entries, because they're pushing so much story until Z3-2 that there isn't really room to have 4-6 new entry series. Getting the feeling, that Z3-2 is more going to be about re-introducing the missing Z1/Z2 series + all the OG plot + maybe 2 new series (Diebuster + E7 Ao)
I still don't know. It sounds like they're pushing all the plot exposition and development for the final game, and I gotta wonder how they'll handle that along with all the anime stuff.
I guess I'm kind of worried that Tengoku-hen will barely have any new entries, because they're pushing so much story until Z3-2 that there isn't really room to have 4-6 new entry series. Getting the feeling, that Z3-2 is more going to be about re-introducing the missing Z1/Z2 series + all the OG plot + maybe 2 new series (Diebuster + E7 Ao)
Shouta
Member
I wouldn't be surprised to see Tengoku-hen be a lot of OG stuff to finish off the series. It needs to give closure to all of the characters, explain more stuff, resolve the plot of Z3 original, etc. I expect some series but I doubt we'll get a full one covered within the plot. I'm OK with that because it gives more room for them to do some additional/original stuff for them like Mazinger in this.
Fewer series also means fewer animations/sprites though. If most of the Z3-2 "new" sprites are just the missing Z1/Z2 series either upscaled and touched up or redrawn...meh.
Shouta
Member
Or they could give everyone new attacks or totally reanimate them like Shin Getter.
Well that was the "redrawn" part.
I don't know. As much as it's cool getting new animations for existing units...it's less satisfying than just using that effort to make new sprites/animations for new entries. I mean a good example is Nu Gundam who already has AMAZING animation and now has damn good totally different animation but a lot of the animations are worse (fin funnels from Z2-2 vs Z3-1) because the original animations were already incredible and didn't need to be redone.
If Z3-2 is basically very few "new unit" sprites and just the "oooh, look at the re-introducing of old units with new animations"...that's really not going to hit the right notes imo. Although I sure hope they redo all of Crowe's animations (assuming all the OG characters will be in Z3-2 for the finale of the OG plot). Setsuko/Rand could go either way since they could redo them and make them worse like some of the Z3-1 ones became.
And yeah I expect all the leads to get 1 or 2 new attacks in Z3-2. Which will be nice for shows missing umph like FMP.
It's fine, no worries
Like I said, he's such a minor character I don't really care! Plus I figured when I wrote that, that most replies would spoil something regarding him.I need to finish up the game soon so I can talk more about it without worrying about spoilers! I figure I need 2-3 days to finish the 46-49 routes then I'll probably marathon the endgame 50-61 in a couple of days. Probably have it finished in a week or so.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that's funny. Please, continue filling me with fantasies of Banpresto completely overhauling animations and sprites and not reusing assets.
Eh, Z3-1 is a weird mix of overhauling some old units with new sprites/animations and just re-using others.
Sometimes for the better like Zeta, sometimes for the worse like Lelouch's mech, sometimes for in-between like Nu. It's a really odd mix and I wouldn't be surprised if Z3-2 kept the inconsistency as it brought back more of the oldies. Definitely feels like they're cutting all the series down to their bare minimum of units (like how SEED Destiny only has Shin and Kira) because they're upgrading (or downgrading, or staying the same) on a unit by unit basis.
One thing I'm not a fan of is how a lot of units got their movelists cut down during the transition. Like Dai-Guard sprite is simply upressed and they even bothered to give it a couple of new attacks, but at the same time it lost a few and overall I'm more impressed by its Z2-2 version of its animations.
Yeah, while I like the new Lelouch cut-in, I really miss the old Shinkirou cut-in with the two of them and Lelouch saying his line.
Also the cut-ins in this are a much lower quality. In Z2 there'd be a lot of lip-synch for cut-ins as they say their lines and more dynamic interesting cut-ins, in Z3 cut-ins it's more likely just a side view of the face coming into view and moving forward a bit then fading out. Reminds me of the Alpha 3 cut-ins now which are far inferior.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Kallen is missing cut ins too.
I don't understand why they would remove things like that.
Worst case I think is Darry and Gimmy who have 0 cut ins. This is including their combination attack.
I don't understand why they would remove things like that.
Worst case I think is Darry and Gimmy who have 0 cut ins. This is including their combination attack.
Well, they're useless throw away characters so I'm ok with them not getting much lol; but yeah it's funny how they get one of the only combination attacks in the game.
Another weird cut-in is Mazinger's Big Bang Punch where it cuts to Kenji and Zeus half & half face shouting something at the same time but uh...there's no dialogue lip-synched to it?
And then there's the ALL attacks which don't have ALL attack animations. You know what I'm talking about, the ones that it just does the normal attack on one enemy and then somewhere off-screen the other enemy magically takes damage. Which makes no sense since a whole bunch of ALL attacks have the animations change with 2 units and attack both.
I feel like stuff like that and Tetsujin 28's Full Power Attack DK where he flies off screen twice in a row are basically "game wasn't finished" kind of things. This game had to have been rushed to meet a forced deadline. It's too uneven and these are the kinds of things they fix up in the last 6 months of polishing a game.
Another weird cut-in is Mazinger's Big Bang Punch where it cuts to Kenji and Zeus half & half face shouting something at the same time but uh...there's no dialogue lip-synched to it?
And then there's the ALL attacks which don't have ALL attack animations. You know what I'm talking about, the ones that it just does the normal attack on one enemy and then somewhere off-screen the other enemy magically takes damage. Which makes no sense since a whole bunch of ALL attacks have the animations change with 2 units and attack both.
I feel like stuff like that and Tetsujin 28's Full Power Attack DK where he flies off screen twice in a row are basically "game wasn't finished" kind of things. This game had to have been rushed to meet a forced deadline. It's too uneven and these are the kinds of things they fix up in the last 6 months of polishing a game.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I'm expecting them to pull out all the stops for Z3.2.
Didn't they say before that they are going to include all the missing characters from Z1 and Z2 in Z3.2?
Didn't they say before that they are going to include all the missing characters from Z1 and Z2 in Z3.2?
No, they didn't say that but this game heavily hints at it for the plot to make sense.
Lostconfused
Member
Yeah characters name drop a lot of stuff in slightly oblique ways. I'd would be very disappointing for them to not show up after all the hinting.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I see. Not that I didn't have fun with Z3.1 but I think Z3.2 is going to be a much better game (because everything's going to have to resolve itself by the end so we should get plenty of awesome moments/units).
Yeah, the story makes it seem like everyone's coming back (though most not as playable units most likely, just dialogue box faces outside the lead unit from each show like Destiny was handled in Z3-1).
I want to see them go ALL THE WAY and like include everyone, including the multi-verse versions of characters like E7 Renton + E7 Movie Renton hanging out together and both Kenjis and their Mazingers. Would be hilarious in a crazy way.
I want to see them go ALL THE WAY and like include everyone, including the multi-verse versions of characters like E7 Renton + E7 Movie Renton hanging out together and both Kenjis and their Mazingers. Would be hilarious in a crazy way.
Also getting
Kshatriya as a secret is hilariously weird since uh, you get the empty unit but not the pilot. Enjoying this Merida island 46-48 route. Now we're getting to the good parts of Unicorn.
Hmmm, looking at the secrets page (not that there's much interesting in them this time around), I think I'll be able to get all the secrets on this playthrough outside Daguza surviving (I TRIED, MAN I TRIED, GAVE HIM SO MANY KILLS AND BROUGHT HIM AS HIBIKI'S SUB THROUGH HALF THE GAME; still died ;_ and the Serpent units. Kind of disappointing that there's no real hidden units and it's just a few playable enemy units/npcs. Maybe Z3-2 will at least have 1 interesting secret unit to obtain.
and the Serpent units. Kind of disappointing that there's no real hidden units and it's just a few playable enemy units/npcs. Maybe Z3-2 will at least have 1 interesting secret unit to obtain.Lostconfused
Member
Torrington Base has one of the best secret units. I'd say its about on par with Amuro getting a Titans MK II in SRW Z.
Maps 47/48 Merida:
Map 46 Nihon
47 was like the dumbest short stage ever. A short underwater stage against goggs that takes like 20 mins just to show the FMP sub dropping mines.
Then 48 was ok. It was a decent version of OAV4's big Mobile Armor battle. I'm pretty happy with it outside of that I wish the big bosses like that MA had better animations. If they're only getting a single attack can't they make it really impressive? I like the sprite for the MA, just wished it moved more.
Also map 48 reminded me of why I never watched Unicorn after OAV4. Other than the cool MA it's a super terrible plot movement for the series. Ridhe completely changes character and becomes a terrible awful character for no reason in Z3-1 than his father says "the family serves Chrono" and Banagher just whines and whines.
Then 48 was ok. It was a decent version of OAV4's big Mobile Armor battle. I'm pretty happy with it outside of that I wish the big bosses like that MA had better animations. If they're only getting a single attack can't they make it really impressive? I like the sprite for the MA, just wished it moved more.
Also map 48 reminded me of why I never watched Unicorn after OAV4. Other than the cool MA it's a super terrible plot movement for the series. Ridhe completely changes character and becomes a terrible awful character for no reason in Z3-1 than his father says "the family serves Chrono" and Banagher just whines and whines.
Map 46 Nihon
LOL, the way they did the 8th Angel was SO BAD. Like that's the worst thing I've seen in the game so far. You don't even fight it, you just fight a bunch of Tetsujin grunts while it's falling and then Misato says its changed direction, everyone fires and then you get the Eva pilots moving on the map close together and a really akward 3 second clip of them killing the angel and LCL blood sea and then "CONGRATS SHINJI, YOU BEAT THIS AWESOME ANGEL WE BUILT UP THROUGH DIALOGUE THIS WHOLE MAP". Yikes ^^; If someone hadn't seen 2.22 I'm pretty sure they would have no idea what just happened.
Also between not doing a sprite/fighting that angel and not doing sprites for the 2.22 intro with Marie in Eva-5 vs. the 3rd Angel; it's like why bother doing Rebuild when they're not even animating the unique and interesting parts of it. Feels pretty half-assed. But maybe since it won't have an ending they don't really care. At least we'll get some interesting stuff next game with Eva going 3rd Impact and destroying part of the world.
Also between not doing a sprite/fighting that angel and not doing sprites for the 2.22 intro with Marie in Eva-5 vs. the 3rd Angel; it's like why bother doing Rebuild when they're not even animating the unique and interesting parts of it. Feels pretty half-assed. But maybe since it won't have an ending they don't really care. At least we'll get some interesting stuff next game with Eva going 3rd Impact and destroying part of the world.
They still could've done it a lot better than a quick set of dialogue and then a goofy few second cutscene. It really doesn't flow well at all.
Also re: the plot
I was really happy with Stage 41. I thought after all this build up, FINALLY things are coming together and Char makes a temp peace with Z-Blue and he's gonna find the Z1/Z2 guys in space and you're going to search for the ones on the earth. Story is moving, oh man now they're going to start re-introducing more of the old cast!
Then the Mazinger thing happens...ok, cool. I like this added layer to the Baal fight. Now it's time to get back for hunting for Z1/Z2 chars...
But then there's the Amuro assassination attempt by Full Frontal and Haman Charge and Chrono making the Earth President sign an order for a full attack on the colonies and...the neo zeon peace with Z-Blue which lasted a whopping 6 stages and made it seem like the plot was going to move is over and we're back to episodic maps of fighting Zeon, Angels, Neo Zeon, Aquarion Altier dudes, Mazinger Gods, etc... and it feels like the plot is back to square zero with no real story movement going on.
I dunno, I'm enjoying it somewhat, but I thought the game was finally going to payoff and get GOOD starting with 41 and be good for the final 20 stages, last 1/3rd of a game that's all been build up. But it was only good for a couple of maps and now it's just going by the numbers and I'm waiting for it to get GOOD again.
I'm guessing map 50, especially the DEFY DESTINY route is where it gets good. In that case, I sure hope since there's only 10 maps left at that point, that every stage is damn good because there's too much waiting for it to get good in this game!
Then the Mazinger thing happens...ok, cool. I like this added layer to the Baal fight. Now it's time to get back for hunting for Z1/Z2 chars...
But then there's the Amuro assassination attempt by Full Frontal and Haman Charge and Chrono making the Earth President sign an order for a full attack on the colonies and...the neo zeon peace with Z-Blue which lasted a whopping 6 stages and made it seem like the plot was going to move is over and we're back to episodic maps of fighting Zeon, Angels, Neo Zeon, Aquarion Altier dudes, Mazinger Gods, etc... and it feels like the plot is back to square zero with no real story movement going on.
I dunno, I'm enjoying it somewhat, but I thought the game was finally going to payoff and get GOOD starting with 41 and be good for the final 20 stages, last 1/3rd of a game that's all been build up. But it was only good for a couple of maps and now it's just going by the numbers and I'm waiting for it to get GOOD again.
I'm guessing map 50, especially the DEFY DESTINY route is where it gets good. In that case, I sure hope since there's only 10 maps left at that point, that every stage is damn good because there's too much waiting for it to get good in this game!
Lostconfused
Member
Shouldn't be surprising when you are waiting for the next game to come out.
Edit: As for Riddhe his characterization is handled rather differently than in the OVA. He gets two episodes as he starts to turn on Banagher and really starts to hate him. In the game its just bam "revelation" and then he gets his permanently bitter/angry/negative portrait.
Phanatic8390
Member
So I've been waiting a bit on this but now that its been our for awhile, I've been itching to try it.
Any non-japenese speaker impressions of how it was to play? I've only got experience with Full Boost and Gundam Breaker and this looks a bit more intense than those to understand what's going on. Are there any good translation resources yet?
Also I'm new to this stufgF and I've got Wing, Zeta, and Votoms sitting on my shelf to watch. I'm assuming I won't get spoiled if I can't read anything?
Any non-japenese speaker impressions of how it was to play? I've only got experience with Full Boost and Gundam Breaker and this looks a bit more intense than those to understand what's going on. Are there any good translation resources yet?
Also I'm new to this stufgF and I've got Wing, Zeta, and Votoms sitting on my shelf to watch. I'm assuming I won't get spoiled if I can't read anything?
I can read very little Japanese and I had a blast with it. Nothing will be spoiled if you can't read it.
HOWEVER
The fun for me was seeing characters and robots that I have a great deal of affection for. It never, ever got old watching Chirico's or Amuro's ultimate attacks. And as a kid my favorite toy was a big plastic Mazinger ("Great Mazinga") so I was in heaven. If you don't have those connections yet and you can't read the story, the 60 maps might bore you eventually.
the Wiki has all the resources you need to play the game (translations for skills, stats, a flow chart for SR points, etc.).
distantmantra
Member
It's a text heavy strategy RPG, but there are great resources to help you get through it and have fun doing so. But with any language barrier, you'll miss out on a lot.
Not everything is spoiled through words. Lots of cutscenes and events happen on the map.
Maybe a little but honestly I've never seen FMP and don't feel like I've spoiled anything, other than who the bad guy is and the existence of that weird mouse thing.
Lostconfused
Member
Or is it a bear?
a mouse/monokuma hybrid!
distantmantra
Member
Sure, if you're unfamiliar with the shows most of it is probably meaningless. But Gurren Lagann at the end... yeah.
Phanatic8390
Member
Hmmm. Thanks guys, I might hold off till I finish watching a few of the shows I've got and maybe pick it up when its a bit cheaper.
Shouta
Member
I thought it was a cat.
Anyway, that particular Eva enemy hasn't been done as a regular attack the icon enemy because of its sheer size, as I recall. In fact, I think in MX it was just an event and not an actual stage but I could be remembering wrong. The fact that it got a special cut-in was quite nice, lol.
Everything after Stage 40 really starts to fit into place the only enemy that I would say is kind of episodic is Eva but that's because that's always the case with it. Never know how it all fits in until like the last stage and even then it's weird.