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[Sonik]

Imo this video summarizes perfectly all the reasons why AAA gaming has become so fucking boring and unexciting to many of us the last few years and why if you're stuck playing these games and think you're getting tired of gaming you should really give a chance to indie games. No you're not getting old, the gaming industry is just way shittier now

 

[violence]

Humans even forgot how to make pyramids.

Without watching the video, I’m assuming it’s how risk averse studios are. Nothing can fail. AAA gaming needs to be a Greatest Hits album of ideas from other things.

 

[kikkis]

If indies have so much innovation compared aaa why is cod best selling game of the year?

 

[Generic]

Nowadays even low-budget games have good graphics.

 

[Interfectum]

If indies have so much innovation compared aaa why is cod best selling game of the year?

Masses are asses… they will always consume lowest common denominator shit.

 

[Sonik]

Humans even forgot how to make pyramids.

Without watching the video, I’m assuming it’s how risk averse studios are. Nothing can fail. AAA gaming needs to be a Greatest Hits album of ideas from other things.

The shareholders and the management morons combined their idiocy to create a stifling environment of insane budgets, boring games, exhausted and fractured development studios, forced DEI bullshit and a gaming industry on the brink of collapse

If indies have so much innovation compared aaa why is cod best selling game of the year?

Are you seriously implying that COD is innovative? Dudebros and other NPCs just blindly consume the same fashionable shit every year until they become so shitty and their reputation collapses, same thing happened to Disney and many other dumb franchises/trends.

 

[violence]

If indies have so much innovation compared aaa why is cod best selling game of the year?

COD is a military FPS = safe. Unique ideas are considered a risk.

 

[bender]

If indies have so much innovation compared aaa why is cod best selling game of the year?

Because COD is the most innovative indie game of all time.

 

[GHound]

If indies have so much innovation compared aaa why is cod best selling game of the year?

A marketing budget that could comfortably fund 200-400 indie titles per year.

 

[Generic]

Imo this video summarizes perfectly all the reasons why AAA gaming has become so fucking boring and unexciting to many of us the last few years and why if you're stuck playing these games and think you're getting tired of gaming you should really give a chance to indie games. No you're not getting old, the gaming industry is just way shittier now

I closed the video when he said The Witcher 3 was revolutionary.

 

[bender]

I closed the video when he said The Witcher 3 was revolutionary.

I tried to get to that part of the video so we could

in solidarity but this guy's personality is fingernails on a chalkboard. Props to him for mentioning Kingmakers though I would have thrown in a Darkest of Days reference.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Good video, even if it is a little too long. My takeaways:

1. Helldivers 2 is not an indie game, at least not in the sense of your typical indie game, which is what he is comparing AAA games to.

2. He claims greed may play only a “small part” in the problem with AAA games… nah. It’s the biggest reason. Greed is why most AAA games are designed the way they are. They are either filled to the brim with monetization for greed, or they are extremely focus tested super safe to guarantee a return on investment at the expense of creativity and innovation.

3. Yo that Kingmakers game looks incredible

 

[ByWatterson]

Yeah they're not getting worse.

He's pretending they are because digital necrophilia gets more clicks than actual thoughtful commentary and criticism.

 

[BaneIsPain]

Can't take this guy seriously after dunking on silverback.

 

[Raven117]

They aren’t getting worse, they are getting predictable.

There is a difference there

 

[existensmaximum]

Nowadays even low-budget games have good graphics.

Depends.. They also have shit animation (especially the facial animation) with no motion capture making them look really cheap. That stuff really, really matters in making the graphics look "good".

 

[FalconPunch]

Yeah they're not getting worse.

He's pretending they are because digital necrophilia gets more clicks than actual thoughtful commentary and criticism.

Are they getting worse? I can't say but they're getting less interesting. The truth of the matter is that as the investment increases, the appetite for risk decreases. The "safer" a game is, the less interesting it is to me.

 

[ByWatterson]

Are they getting worse? I can't say but they're getting less interesting. The truth of the matter is that as the investment increases, the appetite for risk decreases. The "safer" a game is, the less interesting it is to me.

Even if that were the case, making it about that betrays a misunderstanding of how much games used to cost. The AAA game of yesteryear is an indie or AA game today in terms of budget. Those spaces, at those budgets, still innovate like crazy today.

 

[TwiztidElf]

Fuckers like ActMan are part of the problem.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Increasing high budgets, resources and time needed to innovate or provide something new and fresh. That along the need to guarantee sales success to make some money back are the chief reasons AAA games has stagnated.

There's just too much risk so game developers will play it safe.

IMO

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Didn't watch yet. These businesses are making subpar AAA games because their dev cycles are being ran like a business. They make games because that is the industry they're in, but they do it to maintain business continuity. The decisions they make are made as a business. They make games to make money. The true great dev teams are those who set out to make quality games - and by making a great game, the money typically follows. Teams are so large and so specialized, they work on one particular thing and rack up expenses. They don't get to really show their personality or inject any of their team's magic into the game. Worst of all, they are inflexible. If you have a great idea that comes along part way through development, the amount of time and money to actually implement the idea is often too much to justify. Think of Pokemon Gold/Silver and how Iwata implemented Kanto into the game - that kind of addition would be impossible in a AAA game given how long it takes to create assets, how many people and the coordination it involves, and how many approvals it needs to go through. You can't pivot away from bad decisions, and you can't improve on good ones. The long dev cycles mean these teams are victims of their own past success, and the public companies are legally beholden to their shareholders. With so many competing priorities other than the game itself, it's no surprise how things got to be the way they are.

 

[PSYGN]

Because many are now all ran by suits and investors who don't play games and don't want to do anything risky. Why take the risk when a small company can do it and you can steal it with an even bigger budget?

 

[T-0800]

I watched this yesterday and I agree in general with what he is saying but his facts are a little off with regards to Helldivers. Doesn't really undermine his point though.

 

[Danjin44]

AAA western game is getting worse in my opinion, I’m enjoying AAA from Japanese/Asian games.

 

[CGNoire]

Depends.. They also have shit animation (especially the facial animation) with no motion capture making them look really cheap. That stuff really, really matters in making the graphics look "good".

Yep. Amimation is always the telltale sign that its a budget title.

 

[JimmyRustler]

I feel like the biggest issue is simply that the people making those games do not have the same passion for them any more for the most parts.

 

[Fbh]

While I don't disagree with most of his points, I also think from the consumer side we haven't been helping. I always thought there was this weird balanced where expectations for new games kept getting higher while the price remained the same (at least in the US/Europe). I remember back during the Ps3/360 era people were way more willing to spend $60 on a 10-20 hours single player game. It's how we got games like Uncharted, Bioshiock, Dead Space, Assassins Creed, Arkham Asylum, Portal 2, God of War 3, Dishonored, Bayonetta, Alan Wake, etc

Now it feels like many people think a game isn't worth full price if it's not at very least 30 hours for a single playthrough. So everything is bloated, and there's boring sidequests, and tacked on RPG mechanics which probably aren't helping game budgets, dev times or variety.

And to be honest I'm the same, I'm waiting for sales on most stuff and if I'm spending $70 on something I usually expect it to give me dozens of hours of content. But then again the our local currency went to absolute shit over the last decade so a new Ps5 game cost over twice as much as they used to be 10-15 years ago. I distinctly remember buying Mass Efect 1 for 360 for $28.000Clp ... the cheapest I can find a game like FF7 Rebirth is $72.000clp.

 

[bender]

I feel like the biggest issue is simply that the people making those games do not have the same passion for them any more for the most parts.

I'd guess that due to team size, it's harder for passion to shine through. Say what you will about Kojima, but he's navigated growing studio sizes well and his imprint is always felt on his studio's games.

I'd also argue that games on average are better than ever due to standardization of control schemes, cameras, etc. as well as accepted genre design tropes. Shovelware aside, we see far less dreck these days. Yes, monetization practices get grosser by the day and a lot of games tend to feel "samey" due those standardizations and overused tropes but those fundamentals make for a higher quality experience albeit less interesting.

 

[JimmyRustler]

While I don't disagree with most of his points, I also think from the consumer side we haven't been helping. I always thought there was this weird balanced where expectations for new games kept getting higher while the price remained the same (at least in the US/Europe). I remember back during the Ps3/360 era people were way more willing to spend $60 on a 10-20 hours single player game. It's how we got games like Uncharted, Bioshiock, Dead Space, Assassins Creed, Arkham Asylum, Portal 2, God of War 3, Dishonored, Bayonetta, Alan Wake, etc

Now it feels like many people think a game isn't worth full price if it's not at very least 30 hours for a single playthrough. So everything is bloated, and there's boring sidequests, and tacked on RPG mechanics which probably aren't helping game budgets, dev times or variety.

And to be honest I'm the same, I'm waiting for sales on most stuff and if I'm spending $70 on something I usually expect it to give me dozens of hours of content. But then again the our local currency went to absolute shit over the last decade so a new Ps5 game cost over twice as much as they used to be 10-15 years ago. I distinctly remember buying Mass Efect 1 for 360 for $28.000Clp ... the cheapest I can find a game like FF7 Rebirth is $72.000clp.

I don’t think this is true actually. I’d actually argue that SP games sell a tad bit better these days. However, the problem is that those numbers are unable to keep up with the ballooning budgets of games. And those are ballooning because you regularly have hundreds of people working on a single game instead of around 100…

Which is probably also the reason why some passion is lost. I cannot believe that one can approach a project with the same enthusiasm when there is an army of people working on it instead of an office full of buddies.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Masses are asses… they will always consume lowest common denominator shit.

This

 

[tmlDan]

They're not, games were always hit and miss and you always think the games from the past were better cause you were a child and its built off nostalgia.

 

[March Climber]

Nowadays even low-budget games have good graphics.

This is the end goal with Unreal Engine. The more the playing field evens out, the smaller budgets can be, and the less leverage AAA publishers will have, and in the end the more gamers can be happy with more options.

Even ways around voice acting and mocap are being found with the help of AI, so that you don't need an insane budget for performances. We just have to wait for everything to come together.

 

[Lionel Richie]

If indies have so much innovation compared aaa why is cod best selling game of the year?

 

[Fbh]

I don’t think this is true actually. I’d actually argue that SP games sell a tad bit better these days. However, the problem is that those numbers are unable to keep up with the ballooning budgets of games. And those are ballooning because you regularly have hundreds of people working on a single game instead of around 100…

Which is probably also the reason why some passion is lost. I cannot believe that one can approach a project with the same enthusiasm when there is an army of people working on it instead of an office full of buddies.

Well yeah I'm not saying single player games don't sell well. But it seems like these days the expectation for a single player game to be worth full prize is having dozens of hours worth of content and great production values which will inevitably increase budgets and make publishers more risk averse.

God of War 3 was 10 hours long, GOW Ragnarok is 25 hours for the main story alone with another 15 hours worth of side content...and people were complaining about Kratos getting on the boat with the same animation or something.
A Sony first party open world like Infamous 2 was under 20 hours for the main story and side quests, Forbiddest West is 30 hours for the story alone with another 30 hours of optional stuff.
Do you see a 10 hours long single player puzzle game like Portal 2 actually selling well these days for $70?

 

[TGO]

The question should be why are Western AAA games getting worse.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Well yeah I'm not saying single player games don't sell well. But it seems like these days the expectation for a single player game to be worth full prize is having dozens of hours worth of content and great production values which will inevitably increase budgets and make publishers more risk averse.

God of War 3 was 10 hours long, GOW Ragnarok is 25 hours for the main story alone with another 15 hours worth of side content...and people where complaining about Kratos getting on the boat with the same animation or something.
A Sony first party open world like Infamous 2 was under 20 hours for the main story and side quests, Forbiddest West is 30 hours for the story alone with another 30 hours of optional stuff.
Do you see a 10 hours long single player puzzle game like Portal 2 actually selling well these days for $70?

Didn't RE4 Remake sell quite well these days?
It's absolutely possible to make good SP games that sell well. They won't sell 20-30 million but damn... do they really have to? I mean, a 10 hour game can't possibly have the same budget as an OpenWorld slog, so they should not need to sell this well.

I do get that it's probably easier to manage one huge project instead multiple mid sized ones though, which is probably the reason why smaller AAA games are dying. Better make one project that is possibly generating all the $$$ instead of having 10 projects that would make the same amount of $$$ combined.

 

[DrFigs]

they're not getting worse.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

This is called kicking in an open door. We know this is happening for 10 years now..

 

[SmokedMeat]

God of War 3 was 10 hours long, GOW Ragnarok is 25 hours for the main story alone with another 15 hours worth of side content...and people where complaining about Kratos getting on the boat with the same animation or something.
A Sony first party open world like Infamous 2 was under 20 hours for the main story and side quests, Forbiddest West is 30 hours for the story alone with another 30 hours of optional stuff.
Do you see a 10 hours long single player puzzle game like Portal 2 actually selling well these days for $70?

I’d gladly trim all of that modern design padding off, and go back to ten hour long no bullshit experiences, for $50-$60.

 

[Games of Today]

I'm cracking up at what he's saying about Immortals of Avium. $125 million dollar budget for that piece of shit!? My lord!

That much money wasted only for the game to fail and then lay off half the devs who made it! LMAO! That game is such generic trash.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Nowadays I get the feel that a lot of western games are made by people that aren't really that much into videogames to begin with. Like there's a lack of passion, or in some cases even that they haven't played a single videogame before.

 

[diffusionx]

Very few companies are consistently capable of making a "AAA" game. Based on the last few Call of Duty games, I don't even think Activision can do it anymore, at least not at the pace they have been operating in. Everyone else is just flailing about. The amount of time and resources it takes to make an actual great one - $250 million, at least 4 years - is just such a high bar. GTA6 is going to end up with a budget over $1B and EA or Ubishit is just never going to be able to match that game.

This is the end goal with Unreal Engine. The more the playing field evens out, the smaller budgets can be, and the less leverage AAA publishers will have, and in the end the more gamers can be happy with more options.

Even ways around voice acting and mocap are being found with the help of AI, so that you don't need an insane budget for performances. We just have to wait for everything to come together.

I have been hearing about the magic of the new development tools that will make the process so much easier, cheaper, faster, simpler, etc., for at least 20 years. Yet somehow that never, ever plays out in practice. And the reason why is simple - if some shitter studio can leverage all these tools to make a "respectable game" (whatever that entails) faster and cheaper, then the good studios can do that too, and then they can devote more resources to make it even better. So the baseline goes up.

 

[rm082e]

Why is anyone expecting blockbuster media products produced by publicly traded companies not to try and appeal to the largest audience possible? Whether it's games, movies, music, TV, etc., publicly traded companies start from the position of trying to make the most money possible. It's a top-down drive to maximize profits. Every major decision that gets made will serve that goal, so why are people surprised by it?

Of course Disney was going to crank Marvel and Star Wars as hard and fast as they possibly could. They're a publicly traded company - they exist to make money. Of course the music industry is going to play the same handful of bland shit on the radio 27 times a day. They're playing the music they think they can make the most money on. And of course the big publishers are going to develop games in whatever direction they think they can to maximize profits. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's not like any of these companies are trying to hide what they're doing.

If you want media that's focused on artistic vision, go look at the smaller creators in any space who answer to themselves, not a corporate office. Big businesses are going to do business things. Meanwhile, artists are going to do artistic things.

Also, you don't have to choose one or the other. You're free to mix and match and enjoy whatever you want. We now have insane tools like YouTube and OpenCritic to help you get informed on a game before you buy it. If you buy an AAA game expecting it to be good, and then get disappointed by it, you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

they're not getting worse.

Yes. I'd say they've already flatlined and are dead in the water. The quality can't get any worse. Why are investors still pumping hundreds of millions of USD into development projects when so many examples show you can make shittons of money with a fraction of the budget and a small dev team?

 

[crackajack]

If indies have so much innovation compared aaa why is cod best selling game of the year?

Because a lot of people don't care much about innovation and don't perceive games as getting worse. Just because some trve and real gamers act like everything is shite today, they can still have fun with those successfull games instead of whining about everything. And publishers and devs would be dumb af if they would not deliver those experiences people actually buy more willingly than more innovative bombs that are liked by critics and hc gamers but would need to be forced on more people to actually be successes.

I also wonder which Indie game has had much of an impact on anything lately. That "genre" was or maybe already then just felt somewhat fresh when it and XBLA was in its infancy, with Braid, Meat Boy, World of Goo, Limbo, Trials HD, Splosion Man... but it largely also just copies 80s or 90s games, reiterates known formulas. Sometimes choosing to look terrible with NES aesthetics. The big successes are also rather old already; Roblox, Minecraft, Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket-Powered Battle-Cars 2 aka Rocket League. I would believe there was more innovation AAA games in the same time than in the few Indies that made an impact. Some knowledgeable people probably can track back some innovations of Indies as being already in this and that ancient software in some similarity.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Because their dependence on graphics has blown up in their faces and have become a one-trick pony. People are tired of open world games and little else to differentiate from others.

 

[diffusionx]

Because their dependence on graphics has blown up in their faces and have become a one-trick pony. People are tired of open world games and little else to differentiate from others.

Except an open world single player game was the best selling game of 2023. And at least two if not four more were in the top 10, depending on how you categorize it.

 

[Hypereides]

Nowadays I get the feel that a lot of western games are made by people that aren't really that much into videogames to begin with. Like there's a lack of passion, or in some cases even that they haven't played a single videogame before.

​

Its become more evident than ever.

 

[tomato shrub]

Because we allowed the Western industry to take over with Xbox 360. Thankfully Japan has mostly recovered, I can live without Ubi and EA (just remaster Burnout 2-4 before you die) /weeb out

 

[lughnasadh123]

Oh look, another hateful circle jerk to western AAA games despite them still doing great.