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[Grizzlyjin]

Guess Philip and Elizabeth didn't realize how scathing Pastor Tim's diary entry was. Damn.

 

[Cornballer]

- Podcast is up

This week, Thomas speaks with Stephen Schiff, who wrote Episode 510, "Darkroom," about the importance of subtext on the show. Later, she chats with Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys about the episode's shocking third-act development, and prop master Daniel Fischer shares some of the show's behind-the-scenes secrets.

 

[IronRinn]

Yeah, the part that really hits about Tim's diary is that he is way more cognizant of what effect this has had on Paige than her parents do. Ties in fairly neatly with the J's writing Henry off the show so they don't have to suffer jokes about it anymore Henry has turned into a Republican plot line. Philip and Elizabeth really do not know their children as well as they like to think they do.

Edit: Shit, now that I think about it, the scene at the end is essentially the EST speech from earlier.

 

[cartographer]

What a fantastic episode - that wedding had me tearing up and then they followed it with a major punch to the gut. Masterful.

Also, there is officially one full season left of The Americans, y'all. 13 more episodes...



...no he isn't. Everything he wrote in that diary is true.



No, their secret isn't out in the open.



The show isn't really about the FBI agent investigating his KGB neighbors. He suspects them initially but then drops it for the most part and focuses on other things.

It doesn't sound like it would work, creatively, but it does.

He's not a bastard because of what he wrote about Phillip and Elizabeth. He's a bastard for being duplicitous to Paige. Paige put her faith in him. Sought guidance from him. And he can't even be slightly honest with her. He gives her some spiel about being on the right path when he views her as a lost cause. He's adding to the lies. It's effectively a betrayal.

The roles are switching.

 

[Ristifer]

Yeah, the part that really hits about Tim's diary is that he is way more cognizant of what effect this has had on Paige than her parents do. Ties in fairly neatly with the J's writing Henry off the show so they don't have to suffer jokes about it anymore Henry has turned into a Republican plot line. Philip and Elizabeth really do not know their children as well as they like to think they do.

Edit: Shit, now that I think about it, the scene at the end is essentially the EST speech from earlier.

Is it?!

 

[IronRinn]

Is it?!

I don't think it's a stretch to interpret the EST speech about enlightenment as a metaphor for what is (or at least should be) actual enlightenment (both of which take place in dark rooms).

 

[stenbumling]

Great episode, the "I don't want Stan to be like Martha" was so sad. I thought Philip would break after the EST meeting, but I guess not.

Promo spoiler:

Spoiler

Aderholt being replaced by Henry? Can't wait for the Henry & Stan buddycop spin-off.

 

[Disgraced]

Pastor Tim is a bastard. Paige actually handled having read that far better than most would. And he just lies to her face.

Counterpoint: Pastor Tim is a good person. I don't really see what he said in the church as lying, per se. While he confesses his deepest fears for Paige in his private diary, I think it's possible those supportive thoughts were also genuine in the same way "relationships" become real for Phil and Liz. Another part of him could believe in her that way.

Cognitive dissonance and the truth are concepts this show plays with lots.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

He's not a bastard because of what he wrote about Phillip and Elizabeth. He's a bastard for being duplicitous to Paige. Paige put her faith in him. Sought guidance from him. And he can't even be slightly honest with her. He gives her some spiel about being on the right path when he views her as a lost cause. He's adding to the lies. It's effectively a betrayal.

The roles are switching.

wut.

He is giving honest analysis to the girl, and trying to help her out as best as he can. He doesn't view her as a lost cause, or he wouldn't spend so much time with her.

He is dealing with a girl whom he perceives (rightly) as fucked up mentally at the moment, whose parents literally lied to her about everything. You don't just start off with "Hey, you are messed up."

I mean, he is trying to help her. He lets her babysit his kids. He talks with her. He hasn't given up on her. He is worried that she MIGHT be a lost cause, but he sure as shit doesn't treat her like one. If that was the case, he would separate himself from her, and definitely not put her in any positions of responsibility or give encouragement. Internal worry and doubt are expected in that situation, and that is what he puts down on paper.

The ones he really lays it on thick are Philip and Elizabeth, because they are treating their daughter terribly.

 

[Ristifer]

I don't think it's a stretch to interpret the EST speech about enlightenment as a metaphor for what is (or at least should be) actual enlightenment (both of which take place in dark rooms).

Never really thought of it that way. Nice catch. I need to rewatch this one.

 

[KarmaCow]

He's not a bastard because of what he wrote about Phillip and Elizabeth. He's a bastard for being duplicitous to Paige. Paige put her faith in him. Sought guidance from him. And he can't even be slightly honest with her. He gives her some spiel about being on the right path when he views her as a lost cause. He's adding to the lies. It's effectively a betrayal.

The roles are switching.

It's also a different position for Pastor Tim, he's not her parents. He's tried to reach out to her before this multiple times and was rebuffed each time. You're right that he's (unintentionally) feeding into her insecurities by not being honest with her but this started with Paige snooping on the one person she once trusted enough to confide in that her parents are spies. Maybe if he had told her how he felt it would have been different but it's not unreasonable position to not tell a kid that you think they are forever scarred by what her parents did to her.

Also did he say she was a lost cause? I didn't read everything in that last scene. I know he thinks she's definitely damaged but it's not like he's abandoned her. He's still in her life trying to provide support, hoping she will come to him when she's ready.

 

[Disgraced]

The ones he really lays it on thick are Philip and Elizabeth, because they are treating their daughter terribly.

It's pretty damning when Phil says

He should have kept it in a safe

And Liz is like

Why? He has God on his side.

hurr hurr

Like, NO. Like, a drawer is a perfectly normal place for a diary and you guys have lied to him about your true nature, so he doesn't expect KGB junior to snoop in there and SNAP PHOTOS of it. And yet he perceives Paige's situation more accurately.

 

[CoolOff]

I love that they have the balls to do that dinner scene in Moscow. Just like the digging scene early in the season, it shows how much they believe in their vision and telling it, as well as how much they trust us viewers.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

The fuck? He's right, Paige is irrevocably traumatized by what happened to her and her parents are too brainwashed to realise that she needs help. That he doesn't know the full story is what makes it more telling how badly she is coping with everything.

I will just say that I very strongly disagree that finding out your parents work for a foreign government is worse than being sexually abused.

 

[Cornballer]

- Warming Glow's always entertaining feature: ‘The Americans’ Anxiety Report: Oh, Pastor Tim, You Just Messed Up Bad

Pastor Tim, you idiot. Why would you do any of that? Why would you write brutally honest things like that in your diary and then leave Paige alone in your house? Why would you disguise her identity only by referring to her as “P.J.”? She is the daughter of spies. You know this. You know it. Of course she was going to snoop around and find your little diary. What did you expect? What was your endgame here, my man? Why even commit it to paper? Were you afraid you’d forget about the psychologically-ravaged teenage child of secret KGB officers who you let babysit your infant? Where’s the upside in any of this? Just think those thoughts and then move along. No paper trail. It’s like you’ve never seen a movie. Jesus.

And here’s the other thing: That plan, the one Philip and Elizabeth floated to Paige about sending Pastor Tim away? Yeah… did you see their faces in that darkroom as the pictures were developing? Those were not “send him away peacefully” faces. Those were “protective mama and papa bear” faces. Those were “How dare he say that about our daughter?” faces. Those were murder faces.

The whole situation is complicated by Tim’s wife and evidence she may or may not know and/or have secured in a protected location in the event something happens to him, but I’ve got to believe they’ll find a way around that. Pastor Tim goofed and now he has to die. That’s how this works.

Not sure I agree with this reading that Pastor Tim is going to be sent to a farm upstate to play with other pastors.

 

[dabig2]

The fuck? He's right, Paige is irrevocably traumatized by what happened to her and her parents are too brainwashed to realise that she needs help. That he doesn't know the full story is what makes it more telling how badly she is coping with everything.

Yuuup. Pastor Tim is 110% irrevocably right. And the constant "he doesn't know who you really are" affirmations that Phil and Liz threw up all over this episode is ironic because, to the viewer at least, we see that Pastor Tim knows Paige, or at least understands her mental state and anguish and that actions have consequences, better than her own parents who have deluded themselves about her this entire season.

Speaking of who doesn't know who someone else really is, I wonder if we'll see Paige eventually finding out who her parents really are: murderers, predators, and literal homewreckers. Right now she only knows about the lying and selfless devotees to a failing, duplicitous country. The dam has to break at some point. Probably in the final season after they brainwash her some more?

 

[metsallica]

- Warming Glow's always entertaining feature: ‘The Americans' Anxiety Report: Oh, Pastor Tim, You Just Messed Up BadNot sure I agree with this reading that Pastor Tim is going to be sent to a farm upstate to play with other pastors.

I don't know, that's where I've always thought this was going to go. Maybe the whole thing is botched by the center (or it's intentional) but his death will set Paige off and spur a lot of the remaining conflict of the series. Or solidify her life as a spy. Gonna be fun.

I didn't take as direct a response to that inevitability from this episode as that writer did, though, so maybe that's what you meant. I can see Phil realizing he's right and Liz doubling-down on the "got to go" front.

Speaking of who doesn't know who someone else really is, I wonder if we'll see Paige eventually finding out who her parents really are: murderers, predators, and literal homewreckers. Right now she only knows about the lying and selfless devotees to a failing, duplicitous country. The dam has to break at some point. Probably in the final season after they brainwash her some more?

Yep. Gotta be coming. Gotta be where it's all leading. With some Stan on the trail for good measure, I hope.

 

[dabig2]

I will just say that I very strongly disagree that finding out your parents work for a foreign government is worse than being sexually abused.

I don't want to get into the oppression olympics here or anything, but abuse is abuse. And Phil and Liz are pathological liars who are building a toxic dependent relationship with their daughter in order to dominate her. It's more that they're foreign entities, but it's clear that their manipulation and constant lying is wrecking this girl's psyche and now they've forced her to lie and manipulate others as well. Remember that Tim has witnessed Paige's devolution and he knows the 1 change that has sent her spiraling out of control.

He's just calling a spade a spade.

 

[Cornballer]

I don't know, that's where I've always thought this was going to go. Maybe the whole thing is botched by the center (or it's intentional) but his death will set Paige off and spur a lot of the remaining conflict of the series. Or solidify her life as a spy. Gonna be fun.

I didn't take as direct a response to that inevitability from this episode as that writer did, though, so maybe that's what you meant. I can see Phil realizing he's right and Liz doubling-down on the "got to go" front.

I just can't imagine Philip and Elizabeth doing it unless they're backed into a corner by him. (Having the Center do it without Philip and Liz's consent makes more sense.) It sounded like they were all on board with the relocation project given their discussion with Claudia earlier. I know the diary has pushed them further, but I think Philip would have a tough time buying into that plan at this point and Paige would inevitably figure it out.

 

[metsallica]

With their, let's say, curt relationship with Claudia I suppose the call could ultimately be theirs. But if it's not? I'm surprised the Center has let him live this long, but I guess that's also part of the point of this show. Each side really isn't as "evil" as we might stereotypically think (depending on perspective).

 

[Aiii]

Pastor Tim went ham on te Jennings' woah.

I do think he will be booked on a one-way trip to Haiti, but he is not getting murdered by Phillip or Elisabeth, unless they somehow come to a verbal confrontation and Elizabeth loses her cool. The sexual abuse quote with the close up of Elisabeth would certainly indicate her being more upset about this than Phillip.

 

[tearsintherain]

Paige is definitely her mothers daughter, that was a super passive aggressive way to show her mother that other people think she is an awful, awful mom.

Unfortunately for Pastor Tim that sexual abuse line is definitely gonna drive Liz into murder-death mode, Pastor Tim's survival rate for this season took a bit hit.

I could see the death of Pastor Tim being the catalyst that turns Paige into betraying her parents to the US government, in fact straight up to Stan in the finale. Might be a bit too cliche for the show, but would be a nice counter point in to the way historically authoritarian regimes have been portrayed as having children spy on their parents.

 

[Ristifer]

I think it's fascinating that back in S1, Stan was

Spoiler

bent on getting revenge after Amador was killed, going so far as to abduct Vlad from a public place and execute him out of pure anger. I think we have some first time viewers in here, so I'll tag this part.

Now, after hearing Gaad's widow's advice about what her late husband would want, we don't see the same kind of reaction. He was close to Gaad, but he developed such a bond with Oleg, someone who was inside the very same Rezidentura, and was disarmed as a result.

I keep watching this season and comparing what characters are doing now with what I feel they would've done in S1, and there is an incredible amount of evolution. It's remarkable to watch this all unfold.

 

[spindoctor]

Unfortunately for Pastor Tim that sexual abuse line is definitely gonna drive Liz into murder-death mode, Pastor Tim's survival rate for this season took a bit hit.

As it should. The whole Pastor Tim plotline is one that has never sat well with me. There is no way the Centre would have let him live after he threatened to expose the Jennings. They are a 20 year investment for the KGB. Does anyone really think they would risk that and spare Pastor Tim just so that Paige's feelings don't get hurt? The decision wouldn't even be in the parents' hands.

 

[metalslimer]

As it should. The whole Pastor Tim plotline is one that has never sat well with me. There is no way the Centre would have let him live after he threatened to expose the Jennings. They are a 20 year investment for the KGB. Does anyone really think they would risk that and spare Pastor Tim just so that Paige's feelings don't get hurt? The decision wouldn't even be in the parents' hands.

Considering they wanted to develop her? Yes. If they killed Pastor Time, they would have no shot at recruiting her.

Also Paige's reaction next season when she finds out what her parents have actually done is going to be incredible.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I don't think Pastor Tim and his wife are getting killed what with the evidence against Philip and Liz are in their lawyer's safe.

 

[Theorry]

Great ending of the episode.

Felt the wedding was abit weird tho, And abit random.

 

[Dominican Power]

I know that Phillip definitely feels like a monster.

 

[spindoctor]

Considering they wanted to develop her? Yes. If they killed Pastor Time, they would have no shot at recruiting her.

I disagree. They are literally risking two birds in hand for one in the bush by doing this. They wouldn't compromise the security of important assets to appease Paige who is portrayed as a pretty naive child so far.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

The show's cause would definitely be helped if they had depicted Paige as talented enough to be worth all this effort from the Center.

Show, don't tell.

 

[shadow_shogun]

I know that Phillip definitely feels like a monster.

As he should, he and his wife are evil.

 

[The Silver]

Damn those pages by the Pastor were a hard gut punch, oof.

 

[KarmaCow]

The show's cause would definitely be helped if they had depicted Paige as talented enough to be worth all this effort from the Center.

Show, don't tell.

Isn't the point that she's not? Her value is that she's actually American through birth and lived in the country her entire life, not any aptitude toward covert ops or especially coping with being a spy.

 

[metalslimer]

Isn't the point that she's not? Her value is that she's actually American through birth and lived in the country her entire life, not any aptitude toward covert ops or especially coping with being a spy.

Yep, having a natural born American asset could be very useful. I think they trust that Phillip and Elizabeth would take out a threat if it actually was a real problem

 

[VenomousCoffee]

Isn't the point that she's not? Her value is that she's actually American through birth and lived in the country her entire life, not any aptitude toward covert ops or especially coping with being a spy.

So the point here is that the Center is wasting resources and just made a bad assessment on Paige? I haven't gotten that sense and there hasn't been a payoff for that that I've seen.

 

[KarmaCow]

So the point here is that the Center is wasting resources and just made a bad assessment on Paige? I haven't gotten that sense and there hasn't been a payoff for that that I've seen.

What resources have they spent on her, especially since they were told to back off? Unless I'm missing something, at most they had Paige go with Elizabeth to meet her grandmother but that IIRC that was on Elizabeth's request. Maybe they're constantly watching Pastor Tim and the lawyer as well, I dunno. Again, I don't think they ever cared if Paige was suited for the work, they just hoped they could mold her while she was still young and impressionable like her parents were when they were first recruited.

If you're looking for payoff, it's that the spy game has broken Paige, just like how it's broken everyone else. The writers even managed to use their sidelining of Henry to highlight this. Gabriel realised it and it's only a matter of time till the scales fall from Elizabeth and Philip's eyes as well.

 

[dLMN8R]

What "resources" are really being spent on Paige though? Isn't it just Phillip and Elizabeth's time so far?

 

[Cornballer]

The bigger concern might be that if they get rid of Pastor Tim, Paige is a lost cause, and by breaking her they lose Elizabeth and Philip as well. There's a chain of pacification here. If you do anything to unsettle Paige, it's going to inevitably make the parents unhappy.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

What "resources" are really being spent on Paige though? Isn't it just Phillip and Elizabeth's time so far?

The time of your assets is a resource?

 

[Cornballer]

New episode tonight:

Dyatkovo

Spoiler

A surprise assignment from the Centre divides Philip and Elizabeth, forcing them into a moment of profound crisis. Stan gives Henry a tour of the FBI -- but will he see too much?

 

[Cornballer]

- Seat42F: Shining The Spotlight On Composer Nathan Barr

For a show like FX’s drama THE AMERICANS, the sounds and music woven into each scene must convey more than any words written in the episode as the characters frequently communicate with a single look or with unspoken agreement. Thus, those wordless scenes rely upon a gifted and skilled composer to craft a sound that still evokes and supplements the underlying emotion. Composer Nathan Barr excels in this craftsmanship and deserves credit for seamlessly tying such emotionally charged scenes together and the result is a superb listening experience while the viewing audience watches mesmerized in every episode of THE AMERICANS. In an exclusive interview, Nathan shares what it is like composing for THE AMERICANS, as well as his other current television shows THE SON and SNEAKY PETE.

 

[Niraj]

Go time comrades

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Nudity!?!

How many are left?

 

[IronRinn]

- Seat42F: Shining The Spotlight On Composer Nathan Barr

Hey, I just saw his name in the credits of this awful J. Lo movie.

Anyway, go time!

 

[Niraj]

Nudity!?!

How many are left?

Two more after this one I believe

 

[-griffy-]

Henry hasn't done one SNL impression this season.

 

[IronRinn]

Finally have you off my goddamn show.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

This Russian song with these flashbacks.

 

[Niraj]

Well, not that they didn't have an inkling already, but they're not going to like that

 

[IronRinn]

Aw, they named it after him. That makes it all better.