Season one Liz, the scene just cuts to Tuan being folded into a suitcase.
Promo looks nuts.
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The Americans - Season 5 of the award winning KGB spy drama - Tuesdays on FX
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Promo looks nuts.
VenomousCoffee
Member
Great episode. Can't praise this show enough right now.
She would have shot him as soon as he gave the excuse.
She would have shot him as soon as he gave the excuse.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Did they show Martha just to torture us. Dying to see how everything comes together by the end of this series. She deserves a happy ending.
VenomousCoffee
Member
As much as anything, it helps develop Gabriel's character arc.
Sectorseven
Member
Can someone school me on the Russian camps (I assume they're talking about gulags)? Why were people being arbitrarily sent there and why is it taboo to talk about?
Cornballer
Member
- Onion A|V Club review
- Sepinwall's review
- Vox panel discussion
- NY Mag review
Interviews with Alison Wright:
- Sepinwall
- USA Today
- NY Mag
- Variety
- Promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- Sepinwall's review
- Vox panel discussion
- NY Mag review
Interviews with Alison Wright:
- Sepinwall
- USA Today
- NY Mag
- Variety
- Promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
Cornballer
Member
Decisions, decisions...
- I have no idea if Tuan is telling the truth, and I don't know what they should do there.
- It honestly might be better for Henry if he heads off to a private school in New Hampshire. I guess the question is, when everything falls apart, do you want him close to you or clear of the wreckage?
- Stan's gut told him that revenge isn't the answer, but he just got a mandate from Gaad's wife.
In other news, Oleg is kinda hosed at this point, isn't he? Not sure he makes it out of this if Stan comes after him with the KGB snooping around while he's also crossing the heavyweight food distribution mafia.
- I have no idea if Tuan is telling the truth, and I don't know what they should do there.
- It honestly might be better for Henry if he heads off to a private school in New Hampshire. I guess the question is, when everything falls apart, do you want him close to you or clear of the wreckage?
- Stan's gut told him that revenge isn't the answer, but he just got a mandate from Gaad's wife.
In other news, Oleg is kinda hosed at this point, isn't he? Not sure he makes it out of this if Stan comes after him with the KGB snooping around while he's also crossing the heavyweight food distribution mafia.
cartographer
Member
Martha isn't going to get a happy ending. She may survive, but she's not going to be happy.
Two adults throwing a kid against the wall and holding a gun to his face?
Bob Dobalina
Member
I had an incredibly difficult time forcing myself to make it through the Martha scene. These characters, man.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Oh yeah, Kimmy is a thing!
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Poor Martha. Feel bad for Gabriel too, sounds like he doesn't have much of a life in Russia either.
I don't know about Tuan. Things might be on the up and up, but I think they're still going to report him. Everything about that plot thread has tragedy written all over it.
I don't know about Tuan. Things might be on the up and up, but I think they're still going to report him. Everything about that plot thread has tragedy written all over it.
Oh yeeeeeeeeaaaah.
Wherever he goes all this going to shit is going to destroy his chances of running a conservative think-tank.
Cornballer
Member
Cornballer
Member
Good podcast this week, as always. They talk about how Henry probably subconciously recognizes that he's being ignored/overlooked, and his response is more or less to look after himself. They also discuss the priest that Philip meets during the episode noting that Philip is taking on some of Gabriel's responsibilities. Also, the priest is a somewhat needy guy but he also realizes that Philip needs some help, as well. Alison Wright guests at the end. She points out that Martha sees everything pretty clearly now, and she knows that Gabriel on some level is seeking out a familiar face in Russia because he's lonely, but she's having none of it. Worth a listen if you have time.
VenomousCoffee
Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
Scroll down about halfway and look through the descriptions of the arrests and the nonsensical charges.
The camps they are talking about are forced labor camps with inhumane treatment (near-starvation level of food, never enough heat and clothing, backbreaking work).
Edit: Not really related to the camps and purges, but here's another good example of the Soviet system at work, the deliberate starvation of a few million Ukranians, probably to weaken the region under Soviet control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Cornballer
Member
Teletraan1
Banned
Good episode. I think season 1 liz would have killed him on sight. Don't like Oleg's chances here. I have a feeling this investigation on him doesn't actually have anything to do with the FBI shaking him down. It is just a coincidence, or related to the food mafia but will end up getting him killed when someone else just goes forward with the shakedown, probably without Stan's OK.
I think Tuan is being honest. It's another case of conviction and ideology falling apart in the face of human relationships. He's lonely and he actually grew to care about his brother, despite of himself.
I suspect this investigation into Oleg is all about getting at his father. They want Oleg's cooperation, voluntarily or involuntarily. What's stupid on the investigators' parts is that he's actually working to root out corruption already, which may in the end threaten his father anyway.
There's a real undercurrent of an almost denial of Soviet Russia's past crimes relation the political system of the '80s among those currently most strongly upholding the system. Everything's prefaced with pointing out those things happened long ago, implying there's been inherent progress in the country, and that whatever is happening now is therefore okay.
I suspect this investigation into Oleg is all about getting at his father. They want Oleg's cooperation, voluntarily or involuntarily. What's stupid on the investigators' parts is that he's actually working to root out corruption already, which may in the end threaten his father anyway.
There's a real undercurrent of an almost denial of Soviet Russia's past crimes relation the political system of the '80s among those currently most strongly upholding the system. Everything's prefaced with pointing out those things happened long ago, implying there's been inherent progress in the country, and that whatever is happening now is therefore okay.
We're on episode 9 and I couldn't even begin to tell you what this season is about. It has been entirely aimless and middling. Had to make up some itsfuckingnothing.gif plotline for Tuan to remotely spice shit up this week. This show used to have an actual plot, a moving force going through a season. When they announced a planned end of the show I absolutely did not think this was the way things were going to go. Thought it would be more focused than ever.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not sure I'm enjoying this season.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not sure I'm enjoying this season.
tearsintherain
Member
Its been pretty aimless for most of the show, which is why I never really understood why people rate it so highly. I like the show, but mostly for the 80s nostalgic elements, the Russia vs USA cold war spy elements, the great acting by Philip, Liz, and Stan, and the attention to detail. But story wise the show has always been very weak imo, with usually 2-3 explosive episodes per season and then the rest all quiet slow burning, wheels spinning nowhere episodes.
It would be pretty funny if Henry ends up a Wolf of Wall Street type, the complete antithetical foil to everything Elizabeth believes in.
The big surprise for me this season has been how much I have loved all the Russia stuff, its definitely slow but feels like you are getting a birds eye view into a system that is on the verge of collapse.
Henry is getting the ol' "fuck outta here character we don't know what to do with" card. They didn't do it completely out of nowhere at least (aside from making him a math genius this season), but it's pretty clear that's what they're doing.
Sectorseven
Member
I see, but this seems like it occurred mainly in the 30s. Unless I've misunderstood, the characters are talking about events in the post war era.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
for your last bullet point I read it a bit differently. I thought Stan was maybe leaning toward revenge and then went to her for justification. I could be wrong lol.
I think this season has tons of forward moving momentum it's just less blatant. It's happening in a lot of subtext, a lot of hints, happening naturally etc.... Things are really starting to simmer this season.
Eh - given his relationship with Stan and his sudden ambivalence towards his parents, I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a Henry-themed blindside. I actually feel the same way about a lot of the more "languid" plot threads this season. It's as if the board is stealthily being set for some huge, game-changing crisis, and it's just not clear yet which straw is going to break the camel's back.
He explained it, he goes out of state to call his brother in Seattle, but that night he noticed his tail and didn't make the call.
Guess it could happen.
Ristifer
Member
I don't want to try to make excuses for the show or anything, because I'm loving this season (even if it is a bit slower). But it feels like that's the point? The other seasons have had an overarching theme each time, and this season felt like it was going to be the agricultural theme. But that's almost ceased to exist because of the conflict going on with a lot of the actual characters.
I don't know. It feels like the halted agricultural theme explains how the show has fragmented its plotlines a bit. Doesn't mean it's flawless, but it feels deliberate to me. But I understand if it feels a bit aimless to some, too.
It feels that there are a lot of red-herrings look-alikes that might be pointing to something meaningful and solid. So far, we had the
- Virus section,
- Agritechnical arc
- The Russian family side of things
- Tuan
- Phillips Son,
- Russia using said Virus in Afghanistan
- Whatever Phillip doing with that weird lady
All pointing in one direction. Russia being teh bad guys here and Phillip and Liz doubting their mission
VenomousCoffee
Member
I think Gabriel was talking about the 1930s (he is 70 or so in the 1980s and he's talking about being a young officer). Philip's dad and Oleg's mom would be post WW2. Stalin did horrible horrible things his whole career. Kruschev's big policy in the 1950s was actually walking back Stalin's worst crimes.
It's more about themes now than season-long plotlines. The bioweapon, the agriculture stuff, and even Tuan, are related.
With the bioweapon, they believed they were working to help their country defend its citizens, then it turned out they were helping the Soviets murder people in a very gruesome way.
With the GMO crops, they thought they were stopping an operation aimed at starving out the Soviet people, then it turned out their enemy was actually doing work that could help people all over the world. This realization, however, came after they murdered a man working toward that goal.
With Tuan, they realized that their KGB insticts and methods just makes them look like bullies (although they might be more to that story, but at this point it sure seems like it was a wrong call, and that the purpose of the storyline was to cast more doubt on the work they do and how they do it).
At least to me, the show at this point is about the final erosion of Philip and Liz's belief that they are on the right side of history, and how there are very few, if any, winners in this game. That certainly includes Stan, Oleg, Martha, Gabriel, Tuan, and by extension, Henry, Paige, etc.
Other shows quickly build up a character over an episode or two (The Walking Dead is a repeat offender) to give more weight to their demise. The Americans has been doing this remarkably evenly for a remarkable number of characters. I understand why some find the pacing of the show a turnoff, but I definitely feel that it serves a purpose. There is no way that all major characters will end up dead by the end (which is the only way many shows do tragedy), but I believe the show is going in a direction where we will still be able to appreciate the full weight of their personal tragedies, even if that "only" means estrangement, loneliness, and disillusionment.
I liked this episode a lot more than the previous two, it felt like more happened in this one. Tuan's story remains shady, not sure if I believe him so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. The scenes with Gabriel and Martha were great. Martha's life just plainly sucks now because of her decisions.
Beer Monkey
Member
This has been bugging me for a while from a casting perspective; I'm just going to pretend that Oleg's parents are in their 70s as that's how old they would need to be in order for this to fit; his mother would have been sent to labor camp at least 50 years prior to the current season.
If it were right after the war and they had the boys immediately afterwards how old would Oleg be in the current season, though? 30? He's older than that.
Nitpicking but the wheat is the product of simple artificial selection not GMO.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Well said!
Cornballer
Member
I did a similar accounting this morning, and yes, you can clearly see how everyone is in a miserable or perilous situation at this point. That coupled with the fact that their missions haven't even been effective or utilized the way they assumed (the possible offensive use of the chemical agent as well as the grain operation resulting in collateral damage when it was ultimately something positive) are eating away at the Jennings even more so than previously. I am curious what external trigger ultimately sets them off towards the end game. They have enough internal damage that anything dramatic might spin things out of control and set them on a path towards whatever the conclusion might be.
Bonus article:
- Variety: Actress Holly Taylor on Realizing Her Dream For Paige to Kick Butt
Right, I think the writers understand that Henry has been mostly forgotten the past few seasons (due to the emphasis on Paige as well as the actor's injury), and this is a clever way to use that for the story. We've overlooked him as Philip and Elizabeth have, and now he's attempting to move forward in his own, unexpected way. But I don't think they're going to simply write him by shuffling him off to boarding school, and you make a good point as to things accelerating towards a conclusion before that's even an option. If they stick to their estimated episode count, we only have 14 left.
Bonus article:
- Variety: Actress Holly Taylor on Realizing Her Dream For Paige to Kick Butt
I've actually been developing a mild (policy-side) interest ín the field due to my work, so thanks for the clarification!
TheNatureBoy
Member
Nice to see a Kimmy appearance. How many ops does the Centre have Phillip working? Barely knows his own son, daughter being dragged into the filth, no wonder he is ready to bounce.
Good seeing Martha again, even if she was in a bad place both mentally and physically. Struggle potatoes, and I can't imagine Russian is an easy language to learn.
Nice hearing Nina mentioned again as well.
"Was a soldier. Now he's a picture on a wall." Oleg on the harsh realities of war
Good seeing Martha again, even if she was in a bad place both mentally and physically. Struggle potatoes, and I can't imagine Russian is an easy language to learn.
Nice hearing Nina mentioned again as well.
"Was a soldier. Now he's a picture on a wall." Oleg on the harsh realities of war
VenomousCoffee
Member
I'm an American and I took Russian in college. Among the European languages, it's by far the most different from English. Having to move there as an adult with zero prep time would be terrifying just from a social point of view (and then you have the politics of the time period on top of it).
Sectorseven
Member
This is probably a dumb question, but they talk a lot about food shortages in Russia, even showing it in the present day (of 1984). I assume this problem was eventually solved? If so, how?
metsallica
Member
I wouldn't say it's completely solved, but the largest factor would be the end of the USSR / dissolution of communism. Russia essentially moved to a market economy in the early 90s. Gross oversimplification, but if you want more you've got some stuff to Google. And it was REAL rough for a while during the transition...
VenomousCoffee
Member
And the Russian diet is still pretty awful; it's a lot of fatty meats and heavy breads and a shocking (to most Americans at least) amount of hard alcohol.
Edit: The actor who plays Henry was injured? I just googled it and couldn't find anything.
Edit: The actor who plays Henry was injured? I just googled it and couldn't find anything.
Pretty sure that was last season. All they ever showed him was sitting at the computer playing games.
Cornballer
Member
Here's the note about it from last season's thread. I think they mentioned it on the podcast:
VenomousCoffee
Member
Huh, I wondered why they flipped on that "he just plays video games" plot (and now they're going in the opposite direction with "I want to go to an elite boarding school with the sons of political and industrial giants"), but I missed on the injury news. Thanks.
Sectorseven
Member
A broken ankle doesn't seem like a giant thing to hide. Just say the character broke it playing sports or something.
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