D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Finished the test. That was pretty fun. The listening portion continues to be ridiculously simple compared to the reading comprehension stuff, though.
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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
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How do you mean when you say simple? I figure the only things that can get introduced in N2, N1 listening is just advanced vocab, larger variety of grammar. But I was thinking, do they introduce more typical sneak shit, like trails of conversation that are completely irrelevant, with the actual answer to the question being hidden in one short sentence? I've listened to a few N1 audio examples, but my level of comprehension is high enough to understand the topic of conversation. Interested in what a fluent speaker has to say about them.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The few samples I did of jlpt1 the other night were insanely easy. Slow dialogue, no dialect, just basic convo with pick the right details up. I remember it being the same 15 years ago. Anyone who used my listening method (yet to come) could pass it.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
Is the JLPT still devoid of actual writing and speaking?
Yeap.
Porcile, did you end up taking N4? I think if we had started this strat 2 weeks earlier you would have absolutely destroyed it. As for me, I can say that the Kanji section was ridiculously easy because of the rep I've been doing. Grammar was tough because my vocab let me down and I struggled to gain proper context of sentences. Listening was..not the best, because I don't do enough.
Real talk, watching anime has...never done anything for my listening. And I don't think it does anything for anybodys. It's just bullshit, you have these shitty fansubs that you sometimes know are wrong or just based on some dwellers interpretation, weird conversations, super moves etc..I'll finish watching Kuruko next year when I got the time (because that shit is fkn sick) but I'm basically done on convincing/lying to myself that it's helping me learn. it never was. mistakes were made. time can not be brought back. i haven't watched anything for about 4 weeks now and really, nothing of value was lost (note: i only watched one piece and kuruko, and attack on titan when everybody was riding that train).
Ill explain my situation. I was an English teacher for 5 years, studied hard and got N2. Ive now been here 10 years, and did my Masters here (in English and Japanese on a social science) and have worked for two companies with Japanese being the office language.
When I passed N2, my Japanese was still shit. I could recognize grammar and kanji, but I could not have even a basic conversation, differentiate between casual/formal, or talk about much more than simple bar talk. I had English teacher Japanese. I knew one says (at least in Kanto) 会計 not 伝票 for the bill, but I could not tell you what either word really meant.
Having to read journal articles in Japanese, present research in Japanese, and then work in Japanese (cold calls, make proposals, sell them, and now labor laws, work regulations, etc.), my Japanese has gotten a lot better, but really still has an English teacher basis. I am comfortable speaking Japanese professionally or casually in any situation (note that I dont mean I speak well in any situation). N2 level Japanese is something I now output, as opposed to something I can somewhat passively understand.
Im at a level where compared to old English teacher friends I am fluent, and compared to non-English teacher friends, I am intermediate. One major obstacle was speaking Japanese in front of foreigners with better Japanese than me. That is one hurdle I am glad to be over. I am now comfortable making mistakes in front of foreigners with good Japanese, even if they made snide remarks (ahem, expert). Languages are about communication after all.
Due to the English teacher basis (i.e. not starting with a 1 year intensive course, studying after work a few days a week, impressing girls by saying まじで
, as you mention, I should review ALL basic grammar, and actually the pink book I posted above is great for that. Its written for 1級 takers about basic grammar.Another big issue is logically thinking in Japanese. Because in many situations I am still conscious about sentence structure and how to say things, I often have trouble processing how to logically say something so that others will understand. This has happened in meetings, I think that my Japanese ability is the problem, but its actually what I have decided to say isnt rhetorically the proper thing to say.
With difficult reading passages, there is also sometimes the issue of focusing too much on specific sentence meaning that the overall message becomes muddled. I took a course on strategic reading while at grad school, and this came out as a common issue.
As I am most likely a lifer in Japan, and my wife and I are thinking about kids next year, the goal is to be a dad who is able to function in society as any 社会人 can, plus being a foreigner. What I wrote above I see as a step towards that. (This doesnt mean I wouldnt only speak English to my kid)
Id like to stress that I do not think I am over-confident, at least as what I think you mean. I say this because I know many people who are overconfident. They talk to their wives loudly on the phone in Japanese, take command over ordering in restaurants; subject their colleagues to their bad Japanese, etc. The most cringe worthy is taking about racism because some Japanese person didnt acknowledge their fluent Japanese. I mayve acted overconfident here before (or in the Japan thread), probably when posting drunk. Definitely embarrassing if I have done it.
I mean no offense to English teachers, just that it's really hard to learn Japanese as one.
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I found N1 listening harder than expected. I felt I understood most, but then on some questions there was one or two words I didn't get which threw me off. Definitely the section I did the strongest in though.
The samples are a bit easier than the actual exam (and the 公式問題集 you can buy as practice definitely is), but like Zefah says:
There's a huge gap between the reading and listening parts. That said, I totally flubbed the last listening question - my brain was just burnt out after three-four hours, I guess.
Overall I did so-so. As I figured, 文字・語彙 continues to be my bane. 文法 and 読解 went alright and 聴解 went okay bar that last flub. Wouldn't be surprised if I just barely failed overall, though.
Yeah, but for some reason it was going in one ear and out the other for me. Oh well.
Porcile
Member
No. I didn't really see the point. I have a year long contract in Japan (teaching) starting in April, so there was't anything to gain or lose really, I think I missed the application period as well. Next December I will take one of the tests in Japan though. I have it in my mind to go for the N1 one now, 'cause fuck it why not. I am putting in all this effort to bring my myself up to the N1 study level, that I think it would be silly not to try.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Thanks for the post, urfe. Those kind of posts are great in these discussions because they bring up a lot of interesting topics and give insight into how someone living in another country adapts. Also shows how living there doesn't mean instant fluency.
Here are my responses to a few of your points that hopefully others can chime in on too:
I'm not sure what English teacher Japanese is. As in, you picked the initial language skills up just from your teaching job? As much as I don't like the alt position, that doesn't mean sometimes incredibly smart people aren't alts. I've met jets that were extremely proficient in Jgo, which had nothing to do with whether they were an alt or not. If you were able to pass n2 and continue to live and work in Japan, you're clearly not just some alt who can't even use the atm by themselves. Basically, don't sell your Jgo short just because you learned most of it as an alt. The question is did you pick up a proper foundation. Do you speak English or Japanese with your wife?
Moving on, I understand what you're saying about being at that level and still not feeling adept. I tried to warn in my reading guide's intro that even if someone follows my 3 month method and passes jlpt1, they're still not actually proficient in Japanese. Though I don't know what you mean when you keep saying that whenever you speak it doesn't make sense (you mentioned this in an earlier post too). You work and speak in a completely J-environment and yet you doubt your ability..?
I think I know why, but I guess I don't understand the reason. The why is probably you can construct and deconstruct the proper way to say the Jgo, but not the 'normal' way you'd say it. It's hard to explain here, but I've mentioned it before in the past. Jgo in use is totally different than study Jgo. There's a very distinct way of thinking and forming sentences in natural settings than the way someone who learned it point by point would. The key to this, in my opinion, is usually mastering the use ~te morai/itadaki (I'm abbreviating them to mean all their forms and tenses) and ~youni. These two are very commonly used.. how should I say.. bridges? ..that help certain things flow, but they do not exist in English. Note, I don't mean the meanings, I mean how they're actually used. I'll try to find a real life example if I can later.
Anyway, my point was that you being there for 5 years now and working should have solved that issue. So I'm interested in what happened. NOTE: I'm an idiot. I skimmed your post then started replying by reading section by section, but you do eventually say what I just did above. CORRECT. You're not flipping the switch. This is what I meant by overconfident by the way. Not in an ego sense, but in a comfort sense. That the need to truly flip the switch wasn't there. Now you want it to be there, but you have to realize you'll need to start from step 1 just like anyone else. You'll go through the steps much, much faster than anyone else, but you don't get special treatment in skipping steps. If after this long you still think jlpt1 listening can be tough, then something is lacking.
Yeah, reading your response to overconfident, that's not what I meant. I meant being comfortable in the fact you can live normally and don't have the desire to reach the next level. My parents are good examples, as they came to America with very minimal English. For my mom, being able to work was enough. She can do everything anyone needs to do, go to the bank, go to buy a car, go to a musical.. but she can't participate in a political debate or read a contract or you know what I mean. My dad though wanted to go above and beyond. He read USA Today every single day, used 'natural' English when talking, basically became a sponge. They're both excellent in English, but you can tell immediately that my dad is better. Like instantly from the first sentence out of their mouth. That's how I meant it. For me, being like my dad was my goal. But being my dad takes years. Decades even. Every. day.
One final point, have you basically lived in the same area your entire time? If so, I think this has also put a comfort barrier up around you. One of the few awesome advantages I had was to live all over Japan in my first few years. That would level up your innate J-ability a lot. There's a difference between watching Downtown on tv and actually living in Osaka. Or Aomori. Or Okayama. If we ever meet in real life, I could show you what I mean.
Thanks again for the post!
Here are my responses to a few of your points that hopefully others can chime in on too:
I'm not sure what English teacher Japanese is. As in, you picked the initial language skills up just from your teaching job? As much as I don't like the alt position, that doesn't mean sometimes incredibly smart people aren't alts. I've met jets that were extremely proficient in Jgo, which had nothing to do with whether they were an alt or not. If you were able to pass n2 and continue to live and work in Japan, you're clearly not just some alt who can't even use the atm by themselves. Basically, don't sell your Jgo short just because you learned most of it as an alt. The question is did you pick up a proper foundation. Do you speak English or Japanese with your wife?
Moving on, I understand what you're saying about being at that level and still not feeling adept. I tried to warn in my reading guide's intro that even if someone follows my 3 month method and passes jlpt1, they're still not actually proficient in Japanese. Though I don't know what you mean when you keep saying that whenever you speak it doesn't make sense (you mentioned this in an earlier post too). You work and speak in a completely J-environment and yet you doubt your ability..?
I think I know why, but I guess I don't understand the reason. The why is probably you can construct and deconstruct the proper way to say the Jgo, but not the 'normal' way you'd say it. It's hard to explain here, but I've mentioned it before in the past. Jgo in use is totally different than study Jgo. There's a very distinct way of thinking and forming sentences in natural settings than the way someone who learned it point by point would. The key to this, in my opinion, is usually mastering the use ~te morai/itadaki (I'm abbreviating them to mean all their forms and tenses) and ~youni. These two are very commonly used.. how should I say.. bridges? ..that help certain things flow, but they do not exist in English. Note, I don't mean the meanings, I mean how they're actually used. I'll try to find a real life example if I can later.
Anyway, my point was that you being there for 5 years now and working should have solved that issue. So I'm interested in what happened. NOTE: I'm an idiot. I skimmed your post then started replying by reading section by section, but you do eventually say what I just did above. CORRECT. You're not flipping the switch. This is what I meant by overconfident by the way. Not in an ego sense, but in a comfort sense. That the need to truly flip the switch wasn't there. Now you want it to be there, but you have to realize you'll need to start from step 1 just like anyone else. You'll go through the steps much, much faster than anyone else, but you don't get special treatment in skipping steps. If after this long you still think jlpt1 listening can be tough, then something is lacking.
Yeah, reading your response to overconfident, that's not what I meant. I meant being comfortable in the fact you can live normally and don't have the desire to reach the next level. My parents are good examples, as they came to America with very minimal English. For my mom, being able to work was enough. She can do everything anyone needs to do, go to the bank, go to buy a car, go to a musical.. but she can't participate in a political debate or read a contract or you know what I mean. My dad though wanted to go above and beyond. He read USA Today every single day, used 'natural' English when talking, basically became a sponge. They're both excellent in English, but you can tell immediately that my dad is better. Like instantly from the first sentence out of their mouth. That's how I meant it. For me, being like my dad was my goal. But being my dad takes years. Decades even. Every. day.
One final point, have you basically lived in the same area your entire time? If so, I think this has also put a comfort barrier up around you. One of the few awesome advantages I had was to live all over Japan in my first few years. That would level up your innate J-ability a lot. There's a difference between watching Downtown on tv and actually living in Osaka. Or Aomori. Or Okayama. If we ever meet in real life, I could show you what I mean.
Thanks again for the post!
ThreePiMatt
Member
I took the N4 yesterday. Apparently my one year of half-hearted attempts at learning were not enough. I put myself at like a 50-60%. At the very least it was a worthwhile experience to see the format of the test.
Definitely plan to buckle down this year and take it more seriously.
Definitely plan to buckle down this year and take it more seriously.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I think I used the Kanzen Master series back when I studied the JLPT Level 1 ten years ago and it was super useful. It obviously covered even more than what appeared on the actual test, so I find it hard to believe that this year's N1 used grammar forms that weren't covered at all in the Kanzen Master book. I may be wrong, of course.
Do you remember any examples of grammar points on the test that you had never seen before?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The test is still cumulative though right? He probably meant they put a lot more jlpt2 grammar in when he drilled only 1. Still, that wouldn't really be a shock either and at anyone at 1 level would be ready for that. Not like there's new material for these tests to pull from lol.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It would have to be cumulative, I imagine, since that's just kind of how languages work. A lot of people like to talk about how the grammar and vocabulary used in the JLPT are esoteric or only used in academia or whatever, but that's really just not the case. I can't imagine a scenario where grammar points/vocab in N2 would be uniquely difficult compared to what you're expected to know in N1. Seemed odd to me.
On day 11.
last night while I did my notes All I could think was "fuck this". Felt like the last 50 kanji just did not get absorbed at all. After 4 hours sleep I thought this was gonna be a write off day, but managed to get through all of the Kanji for today first thing in the morning. And I felt good about them too, the 50 I thought I didn't retain, about 80% came naturally when looking at my triggers (Japanese and English triggers). feels good man.
Since starting I've probably retained comfortably 225. 50 are there but need more reps. There are maybe 50-75 that aren't in my list/ haven't learned formally yet, but i have retained roughly half of those confidently.
Honestly I'm learning kanji at a rate I didn't think was possible, and it feels good.
I've also altered my grammar triggers to just being English. But some overlap and it's hard to have a written trigger for patterns that are pretty similar, like なら、たら、て、and to some degree ones that I know are fundamentally different like ば ー all a form of saying if/then but hard to create clear English triggers to differentiate. This is just something you have to absorb and know naturally I think, which isn't a major problem for these, but I can imagine will become difficult as the number of these types increase.
last night while I did my notes All I could think was "fuck this". Felt like the last 50 kanji just did not get absorbed at all. After 4 hours sleep I thought this was gonna be a write off day, but managed to get through all of the Kanji for today first thing in the morning. And I felt good about them too, the 50 I thought I didn't retain, about 80% came naturally when looking at my triggers (Japanese and English triggers). feels good man.
Since starting I've probably retained comfortably 225. 50 are there but need more reps. There are maybe 50-75 that aren't in my list/ haven't learned formally yet, but i have retained roughly half of those confidently.
Honestly I'm learning kanji at a rate I didn't think was possible, and it feels good.
I've also altered my grammar triggers to just being English. But some overlap and it's hard to have a written trigger for patterns that are pretty similar, like なら、たら、て、and to some degree ones that I know are fundamentally different like ば ー all a form of saying if/then but hard to create clear English triggers to differentiate. This is just something you have to absorb and know naturally I think, which isn't a major problem for these, but I can imagine will become difficult as the number of these types increase.
Can remember and write without reference ~80% of the kanji up to N4 level.
Doesn't know the meaning of the very first two-kanji word on the test
Great
lol I can't even remember what the word was
have you read the I'm an expert post for a comprehensive, brute force study guide? linky linky here. do this and you will remember with easy the first 500 kanji within the first month. the N4 kanji section took me no time at all because of this.
Yeah, I almost didn't study for it.. I did this just with a weekly class and by speaking with my family
But the problem is that college consumes too much of my time
I don't have much time left for other thingsMy friend and I got a different answer for which candidate the guy would vote for, but I had no confidence in my answer (person 1 vs person 3). The woman voted for person 2 we both said.
The restaurant and museum questions we both found easy.
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Expert:
English teacher Japanese is not an insult to English teachers. It's where your listening becomes much stronger than anything else, you learn Japanese from children, are literally paid for only speaking English and not speaking Japanese, this for most having only speaking experiences at the bar.
Many become ALTs with a degree in Japanese, many ALTs successfully shut out all contact with other foreigners, but I don't think this is the norm (or was the norm from 2005-2009, maybe it changed).
My first year in Japan I didn't care about studying Japanese too much and was having fun. I think I studied 50 adjectives and a bunch of verbs one night and that made me be able to communicate when out.
Even when I got serious, it was between telling high school kids to speak English, and there was no environment to know if what I was learning as actually something. Just going on with のほうがいい, はず, verbs before nouns or whatever else was in Japanese for Busy People II, and wondering if I truly got it.
I'm fine with my level, but I constantly see how it has to improve. I'm hard to understand when I'm reporting something in a meeting. I need to think more logically, perhaps prepare what I'll say beforehand, etc. When I get in a conversation, I speak too fast and sometimes lose basic grammar.
I'll be giving a presentation in my business Japanese class at the end of the month, which will be good to actually think about what I should say.
Either way, as with anyone with anything, I just need to work hard on a regular basis. This time taking N1 was good for realizing that.
The restaurant and museum questions we both found easy.
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Expert:
English teacher Japanese is not an insult to English teachers. It's where your listening becomes much stronger than anything else, you learn Japanese from children, are literally paid for only speaking English and not speaking Japanese, this for most having only speaking experiences at the bar.
Many become ALTs with a degree in Japanese, many ALTs successfully shut out all contact with other foreigners, but I don't think this is the norm (or was the norm from 2005-2009, maybe it changed).
My first year in Japan I didn't care about studying Japanese too much and was having fun. I think I studied 50 adjectives and a bunch of verbs one night and that made me be able to communicate when out.
Even when I got serious, it was between telling high school kids to speak English, and there was no environment to know if what I was learning as actually something. Just going on with のほうがいい, はず, verbs before nouns or whatever else was in Japanese for Busy People II, and wondering if I truly got it.
I'm fine with my level, but I constantly see how it has to improve. I'm hard to understand when I'm reporting something in a meeting. I need to think more logically, perhaps prepare what I'll say beforehand, etc. When I get in a conversation, I speak too fast and sometimes lose basic grammar.
I'll be giving a presentation in my business Japanese class at the end of the month, which will be good to actually think about what I should say.
Either way, as with anyone with anything, I just need to work hard on a regular basis. This time taking N1 was good for realizing that.
Aizo
Banned
Seeing that all the work over the past year has not ended with the results I wanted, it's time to completely revamp my study method. I don't feel confident about how well I did on the N2 the other day. Although I can see all the ways I have improved, it's not nearly enough. Reading everyone's posts over the past few weeks has been very motivating.
I'm looking forward to expert's listening practice method.
I'm looking forward to expert's listening practice method.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Work is a little hectic for me before holidays so that's why I can't dedicate much time to the post now. It's not as long as the other one but it still takes me a few days to write and format and source. I've actually been having fun finding new things that didn't exist back in the day, like sites where people actually just stream live J-TV broadcasts. Even though J-go is a daily part of my life, I haven't properly lived there in a few years now so I'll admit I'm getting a bit nostalgic going through all this media. Few more months and I'll be back anyway.
Urfe, I'll definitely respond more later as I'd like to keep the convo going. I guess the main thing was that I understand your feelings about your skills/foundation from the first 5 years. That I get. Just wondering what happened in the 5 years since. 5 years is a long fuckin time. Why I asked if you had stayed in the same spot, if you spoke with your wife, or in general how much you let natural Jgo into your life outside of a work setting. Do you come home and just watch jtv? Read a jmagazine? Go to a jmovie? Not for study. For..life. Or do you default to watching/reading stuff in English as it's a 'break' for you. I'm not saying we throw away our English lives, just that, it can be necessary to switch the default in our brains and therefore our lives. Kind of like switching between a dub and sub version.
If that makes sense. Sorry these 5am posts are the only free time I get to think a bit lol.
Urfe, I'll definitely respond more later as I'd like to keep the convo going. I guess the main thing was that I understand your feelings about your skills/foundation from the first 5 years. That I get. Just wondering what happened in the 5 years since. 5 years is a long fuckin time. Why I asked if you had stayed in the same spot, if you spoke with your wife, or in general how much you let natural Jgo into your life outside of a work setting. Do you come home and just watch jtv? Read a jmagazine? Go to a jmovie? Not for study. For..life. Or do you default to watching/reading stuff in English as it's a 'break' for you. I'm not saying we throw away our English lives, just that, it can be necessary to switch the default in our brains and therefore our lives. Kind of like switching between a dub and sub version.
If that makes sense. Sorry these 5am posts are the only free time I get to think a bit lol.
I may've not explained myself clearly.
My Japanese has improved exponentially, just not in ways the JLPT measures. I could show N2 knowledge through a multiple choice test, but had no practical knowledge of the language
As a grad student, my concerns were reading academic articles, presentations, and group discussions. Job hunting changed it to personal appeals, group discussions (of a different variety), writing entry sheets and taking personality tests (or spi). None was really about learning more kanji or grammar points, but it all made my Japanese much better as it was all in Japanese.
Later I learned how to do business calls, create proposals, etc. This was all likely not using much N1 kanji or grammar, but I was learning what was needed to do my job. Meanwhile, my friends became Japanese (foreign friends leave, etc), and I speak more Japanese than English (with my wife is exclusively Japanese, which I actually think it's time to change).
Therefore, despite being comfortable in meetings, giving presentations, doing research, getting interviewed, etc, I have not done the proper study required to get N1, and my Japanese has the holes in it I mentioned in my previous posts.
I don't mean to build up or my Japanese or break it down. It is at a certain level that I am somewhat proud of, but there is so so so much more to do. That I also mentioned I previous posts.
I'll be doing a 10 minute presentation for my business class, and it'll be a chance to not focus on getting across what I want to say in a polite for a foreigner way, but to actually create long sentences that flow together.
I'm looking forward to it. As I don't want to mention my work to my class, I may do it on Nintendo sales or something gaming related.
If people would be interested, I could post my presentation script before and after my teacher corrects it to see what kind of mistakes I make, and what is proper.
My Japanese has improved exponentially, just not in ways the JLPT measures. I could show N2 knowledge through a multiple choice test, but had no practical knowledge of the language
As a grad student, my concerns were reading academic articles, presentations, and group discussions. Job hunting changed it to personal appeals, group discussions (of a different variety), writing entry sheets and taking personality tests (or spi). None was really about learning more kanji or grammar points, but it all made my Japanese much better as it was all in Japanese.
Later I learned how to do business calls, create proposals, etc. This was all likely not using much N1 kanji or grammar, but I was learning what was needed to do my job. Meanwhile, my friends became Japanese (foreign friends leave, etc), and I speak more Japanese than English (with my wife is exclusively Japanese, which I actually think it's time to change).
Therefore, despite being comfortable in meetings, giving presentations, doing research, getting interviewed, etc, I have not done the proper study required to get N1, and my Japanese has the holes in it I mentioned in my previous posts.
I don't mean to build up or my Japanese or break it down. It is at a certain level that I am somewhat proud of, but there is so so so much more to do. That I also mentioned I previous posts.
I'll be doing a 10 minute presentation for my business class, and it'll be a chance to not focus on getting across what I want to say in a polite for a foreigner way, but to actually create long sentences that flow together.
I'm looking forward to it. As I don't want to mention my work to my class, I may do it on Nintendo sales or something gaming related.
If people would be interested, I could post my presentation script before and after my teacher corrects it to see what kind of mistakes I make, and what is proper.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
actually this post is pointless. you know what you gotta do to be happy. go for it.
appreciate it, but don't bust a nut trying to find time to do it.
ATM I've been listening to HOTCAST, but fuck me there are a lot of expressions that I just don't know. fair decent amount of work to be done in the next few months. I try to listen to the same one a few times a day to see if I can pick up anything I didn't previously and actually piece it together..it stings knowing you've said how simple the conversations are..but really, it's nothing like what you get in the JLPT listening tests (I think)..
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
urfe, do you read many books or magazines/newspapers/online article?
I just did a quick Google search for the N1 grammar points (http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt1/grammar/combined/) and I don't feel like any of this stuff is obscure or really uncommon at all.
I feel like your life experience should have you more than prepared to pass N1 without much trouble. I'm not trying to disparage your ability or anything, but you're doing some pretty advanced stuff already in Japan, so I'm puzzled that N1 would feel difficult.
Of course, you may just be being modest and could well have passed the thing.
I just did a quick Google search for the N1 grammar points (http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt1/grammar/combined/) and I don't feel like any of this stuff is obscure or really uncommon at all.
I feel like your life experience should have you more than prepared to pass N1 without much trouble. I'm not trying to disparage your ability or anything, but you're doing some pretty advanced stuff already in Japan, so I'm puzzled that N1 would feel difficult.
Of course, you may just be being modest and could well have passed the thing.
I'm constantly overselling or downplaying my ability.
From recently I'm trying to read daily (in my free time), but it's usually just been things for work. As I'm a foreigner, I've been able to get by with non-perfect Japanese, although that limits my responsibilities in companies I've worked in.
This thread (and other life events) have motivated me to for once and for all study enough to feel competent in all that I do, and to fill in the holes to have a more complete knowledge where N1 is second nature.
At this point there's many things I kind of get through experience, but don't actually fully understand. When studying last week, I learned that それをおいといて is actually an N1 grammar point.
Anyways, my only reason to explaining my case so much is to say I'm at an awkward part where thorough study is required to level out my ability, and that this is due to my history with the language.
Even if I passed N1, it would be a fluke, and I would want to take it again in July (and why not if it helps with study, the same reason I'd take 日本語検定 afterwards).
Expert, to answer your questions, I feel comfortable explaining anything you said (and do so on a regular basis), but I am under no illusion that I couldn't explain them better or that I couldn't speak more natural. Perhaps this is what you meant by "over-confident"?
Either way, serious study is starting now.
From recently I'm trying to read daily (in my free time), but it's usually just been things for work. As I'm a foreigner, I've been able to get by with non-perfect Japanese, although that limits my responsibilities in companies I've worked in.
This thread (and other life events) have motivated me to for once and for all study enough to feel competent in all that I do, and to fill in the holes to have a more complete knowledge where N1 is second nature.
At this point there's many things I kind of get through experience, but don't actually fully understand. When studying last week, I learned that それをおいといて is actually an N1 grammar point.
Anyways, my only reason to explaining my case so much is to say I'm at an awkward part where thorough study is required to level out my ability, and that this is due to my history with the language.
Even if I passed N1, it would be a fluke, and I would want to take it again in July (and why not if it helps with study, the same reason I'd take 日本語検定 afterwards).
Expert, to answer your questions, I feel comfortable explaining anything you said (and do so on a regular basis), but I am under no illusion that I couldn't explain them better or that I couldn't speak more natural. Perhaps this is what you meant by "over-confident"?
Either way, serious study is starting now.
this is the first time since I've posted in the thread that people have started going HAM. 2 days after the test and Urfe is already preparing to go hardcore. I like it. best thing about taking those tests is reflecting afterwards about how you need to do more, need to do better, and have to find time to do so. that's how i felt when I was walking in, taking the test, and leaving. i am spending all my spare time studying, be it podcasts, news, websites or that whiteboard. it's just routine now.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Just to recap, for me listening always followed my reading/writing study from before. It was a way for me to take a break from so much production and work on consumption.
So what is our goal here? To pass JLPT1 listening? That will come with this. You will overstudy with this method if that is your only goal. Our goal is much simpler. To understand spoken Japanese. Real life, a movie, a video, whatever. The ability to understand this language aurally will, just like the reading/writing, open up so many doors. And, moreso than the reading/writing, listening is what will form the base of your speaking (not covered in this post).
Things you will need for this process:
1. The internet.
I realized while researching how to do this method modernly that the internet has everything you will ever need now. You can inundate yourself with Japanese endlessly if that is your goal thanks to the internet.
2. A dictionary.
Two actually. Grammar and vocab. This can be physical or just the internet. In the beginning, you will need J->E for any words or forms you don't understand. I'd be lying if I said you can do this completely in J->J. I mean, if you can, do it, but most likely not. I couldn't in the beginning either, it took a good month (along with the other studies) to get to the point where all I used was alc.co.jp basically. That site still exists to this day. Use it.
3. A notebook, notepad, word document, whatever.
This is where we record meanings and timestamps of useful words and phrases. Yes, we're creating a list. However, I leave it up to you how you want to practice the list. For me, I did the oral method, which we'll get into more detail later. If you want to combine this practice along with your reading/writing, you most certainly can as you will come across new vocab and kanji all the time.
Shall we dance?
Let me make one thing clear, absolutely, positively, do not use songs for study. Songs are incredibly stylized, symbolized, and molded by their genre. Think about this logically in English. If someone tried to learn English using country music, or hiphop, or rock, how different their experiences would be. Would they ever hear that kind of English anywhere outside those songs? Songs are something you can enjoy on the side and delve into much later, but do not try to dissect songs and learn from them. Don't. do. it.
Don't. do. it.
You will waste your time. Don't tell me about how easy and slow your favorite anime or drama song is. Please, trust me. Don't do it.
For listening I identified three types of content back in my study days:
Natural, News, Scripted
Natural: What you hear on an unscripted talk show, in live interview/documentary, in a podcast. Quick, dialect-dependent, little enunciation, contains slang or common abbreviations of words/phrases, is the most useful but most difficult.
Examples of what I used back in the day: Heyx3, random game shows, Waratte Iitomo
News: Extremely formatted, extremely clear, usually spoken by professionals with beautiful pronunciation. Some might say this is the least useful but I disagree as it teaches excellent grammar and because understanding news is important for understanding any culture.
Examples of what I used in the day: Basic NHK news, any kind of newscast or podcast. Nowadays you can literally get streamed tv channels like this - http://wilsonjj.me/jptv/# (note, not necessarily good for this method as we need the ability to pause and rewind)
Scripted: Movies, dramas, anime, whatever. This is the easiest to understand but also the least (immediately) useful because things are written to flow for story telling, not the way they would in real life conversation. So you get these short bursts of useful stuff but it's up to you to properly apply them.
Examples of what I used back in the day: Any NON-FANTASY drama, movie, fuck it, even anime if you want. I say non-fantasy because you want more practical stuff before you move onto these niche categories. Why fill yourself up with dumb shit like 'refill my mana.'
Part of the success of this program is the variety of the menu you create. You should not just watch dramas or talk shows every single day, rather mix it up and alternate so you expose yourself to all versions of Japanese.
Here's the actual method:
First, we choose a piece of media that can be paused/rewinded. I recommend video in the beginning to study with because it helps to see peoples' lips as well as their inflections. I didn't have podcasts back in the day but even then when I just had something on in my earphones I always wanted to see the speaker. Also, it's much easier rewinding on a computer than a phone or mp3 player. We do not want ENGLISH subtitles, but if we can get Japanese subtitles that is excellent (variety shows will have these somewhat). If you do have the option of Japanese subtitles, use them AFTER you attempt listening to it a few times and if you're truly stumped. With variety shows, you can practice your simultaneous reading+listening with their popup subs.
Once you have your piece of media. You watch it and stop every time you don't understand something. Yep, we're going to go piece by piece through the content and almost transcribe the script. Let me pause (harhar) right here and get something out of the way. I figured I'd put this note inside the method so it grabbed people reading this far. Do not do this study method with something you want to enjoy.
What I mean is, let's say you really want to watch Hana Yori Dango (part 1+2). Using this study method will make you hate the show. If you really want to watch it, watch the show first and enjoy it. Then, if you want to use it as one of your study pieces, go for it. But you will hate yourself and the content if it's something you actually want to relax with. I wholeheartedly recommend consuming it first.
Now, back to the method. I would go sentence by sentence until I hit a spot I didn't know. I'd rewind it over and over until I could understand every word. I'd write it down in Japanese, define any word/grammar I didn't know, then repeat it OUT LOUD VERBALLY. Finally I would timestamp the line.
Just to be clear, we're not transcribing every single line - only ones we find new (as in don't understand), difficult, helpful, or interesting. You could definitely transcribe it all if you want for practice, but again, common sense, time saving, and fatigue. Now, of course, getting through a single episode of say a 45 minute drama usually took me 2-3 hours, sometimes even split between two days. This is why you want to enjoy the show first if it's that kind of thing for you.
At the end of the content, I'd review my entire list and go timestamp by timestamp to listen to the moment again and RECITE IT OUT LOUD. This part was important for 1. making it stick in your head, 2. practicing pronunciation and any dialect, 3. practicing not being a pussy and being willing to speak Japanese out loud. You'd be surprised how many people are afraid of speaking out loud for 'fear of sounding dumb.' Looking dumb is worse.
Let's review. I would create a menu of content for a week. For example:
Monday: Drama episode
Tuesday: News
Wednesday: Talk show
Thursday: Drama episode
Friday: Game show
Saturday/Sunday: Review by rewatching all 5 previous media without pausing or using notes.
I would begin the media and pause whenever I felt I didn't understand something. I'd rewind until I felt comfortable I knew what was being said. I'd transcribe the line in Japanese, define unknown phrases using some sort of dictionary, timestamp it, and practice it orally. Then continue on until I hit the next piece I didn't understand. Repeat until finish media. Then, review using timestamps and practice the listening/reciting again. At the end of the week, I would rewatch each piece of media without notes and without pausing, letting my ear and brain adapt naturally.
And that's it. No writing list, no insane repetition, just good old fashion study. Nothing revolutionary. Depending on what I watched, I could be done with this exercise in an hour or a lot more. Also, outside of this study I also freely consumed shows/movies/news/whatever without using this method. Just enjoying and watching naturally.
In my opinion, this part of my study is what gave me my greatest advantage when going up against others, even greater than reading kanji. A native speaker not having to slow or dumb down their talking to you is such a wonderful thing for them.
A few quick FAQs:
What if I listen to something over and over and just cannot comprehend/make it out?
You have two options. If you have access to a native speaker, you ask them. Dead serious. I did this many times with friends and it made a world of difference understanding why I couldn't comprehend. Maybe it was the way a word was pronounced differently than I thought it'd be. Maybe it was slang or a dialect. Maybe I just didn't know the right vocab. The other option is to let it go. Don't kill yourself over one tiny piece if you just can't get it. I definitely did not 100% understand the media by the weekend review. Don't get caught up on that.
What if I kind of understand something..like I get the meaning and know all the words.. it's just.. too fast?
It's up to you how much supplemental stuff you take note of. In the beginning, you'll say 'oh, I know what he said, I just couldn't repeat it right now if you asked me to.' If you want to pause and practice that phrase or pattern, go for it. Just realize it will make the process much longer. If you're at a point with certain things that you understand but just have trouble producing off the top of your head, it's worth it to study it a bit to get it to stuck.
What do you recommend to start with?
No fantasy, no songs, no weird shit, and be very careful of dialect-heavy stuff in the beginning. I chose Heyx3 as one of my early shows and it was PAINFUL. The payoff was amazing as my Japanese was in default Kansai-ben, I ended up living in Kansai, and I married someone from Kansai.. but it was definitely throwing myself into the fire from early on.
I recommend basic interview shows, like the morning talk show segments. I recommend simple concept dramas. For example, no Hanzawa Naoki, yes Gokusen. I recommend any NHK-like segment or documentary. Even that Hotcast podcast people listen to here is good for natural content. I gave it a few minutes listen.
What's the number one thing to watch out for when practicing listening?
Let me end on this. A lot of people say Asian languages have a hard time expressing every kind of situation or emotion that western languages can. I completely disagree. Actually, I think Asian languages, especially Japanese, can express things that even English can't.
In the beginning with this method, if you're not well-acquainted with verbal Japanese, you will scratch your head at all of the ~eeeeee, naniiiiii, ureshiiiiii, oishiiiiiii type of shit. You'll ask yourself, do I really have to sound like that when I speak Japanese? Yes. Because it's a part of how they express themselves, and knowing that form of expression is important for you to convey ideas to them that they can understand. I'm almost diving into speaking, which I won't do here, but take note in your listening practice just how similar yet utterly different the Japanese way of saying something is. Take note of all the little things you notice they verbalize that we would never in English, and why it's natural for them, but sounds so unnatural for us.
(Bonus/My ramblings)
To prove my point about songs, let me post this link (not full version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PblTYym9TrI
This song is written in a way that is incredibly difficult to express in English. It conveys thoughts and ideas in a way totally different than English would, even though it's using basic words that obviously exist in both languages. Don't use this song to study, just try to see that there's more underneath this song than just understanding the literal meaning of the words. There's an emotion under there that I don't find expressed in my native language or English often.
Let me ask, how would you translate the meaning (not literally) of kawatte shimawanaide or wasurete shimawanaide (from the full version) into English?
So what is our goal here? To pass JLPT1 listening? That will come with this. You will overstudy with this method if that is your only goal. Our goal is much simpler. To understand spoken Japanese. Real life, a movie, a video, whatever. The ability to understand this language aurally will, just like the reading/writing, open up so many doors. And, moreso than the reading/writing, listening is what will form the base of your speaking (not covered in this post).
Things you will need for this process:
1. The internet.
I realized while researching how to do this method modernly that the internet has everything you will ever need now. You can inundate yourself with Japanese endlessly if that is your goal thanks to the internet.
2. A dictionary.
Two actually. Grammar and vocab. This can be physical or just the internet. In the beginning, you will need J->E for any words or forms you don't understand. I'd be lying if I said you can do this completely in J->J. I mean, if you can, do it, but most likely not. I couldn't in the beginning either, it took a good month (along with the other studies) to get to the point where all I used was alc.co.jp basically. That site still exists to this day. Use it.
3. A notebook, notepad, word document, whatever.
This is where we record meanings and timestamps of useful words and phrases. Yes, we're creating a list. However, I leave it up to you how you want to practice the list. For me, I did the oral method, which we'll get into more detail later. If you want to combine this practice along with your reading/writing, you most certainly can as you will come across new vocab and kanji all the time.
Shall we dance?
Let me make one thing clear, absolutely, positively, do not use songs for study. Songs are incredibly stylized, symbolized, and molded by their genre. Think about this logically in English. If someone tried to learn English using country music, or hiphop, or rock, how different their experiences would be. Would they ever hear that kind of English anywhere outside those songs? Songs are something you can enjoy on the side and delve into much later, but do not try to dissect songs and learn from them. Don't. do. it.
Don't. do. it.
You will waste your time. Don't tell me about how easy and slow your favorite anime or drama song is. Please, trust me. Don't do it.
For listening I identified three types of content back in my study days:
Natural, News, Scripted
Natural: What you hear on an unscripted talk show, in live interview/documentary, in a podcast. Quick, dialect-dependent, little enunciation, contains slang or common abbreviations of words/phrases, is the most useful but most difficult.
Examples of what I used back in the day: Heyx3, random game shows, Waratte Iitomo
News: Extremely formatted, extremely clear, usually spoken by professionals with beautiful pronunciation. Some might say this is the least useful but I disagree as it teaches excellent grammar and because understanding news is important for understanding any culture.
Examples of what I used in the day: Basic NHK news, any kind of newscast or podcast. Nowadays you can literally get streamed tv channels like this - http://wilsonjj.me/jptv/# (note, not necessarily good for this method as we need the ability to pause and rewind)
Scripted: Movies, dramas, anime, whatever. This is the easiest to understand but also the least (immediately) useful because things are written to flow for story telling, not the way they would in real life conversation. So you get these short bursts of useful stuff but it's up to you to properly apply them.
Examples of what I used back in the day: Any NON-FANTASY drama, movie, fuck it, even anime if you want. I say non-fantasy because you want more practical stuff before you move onto these niche categories. Why fill yourself up with dumb shit like 'refill my mana.'
Part of the success of this program is the variety of the menu you create. You should not just watch dramas or talk shows every single day, rather mix it up and alternate so you expose yourself to all versions of Japanese.
Here's the actual method:
First, we choose a piece of media that can be paused/rewinded. I recommend video in the beginning to study with because it helps to see peoples' lips as well as their inflections. I didn't have podcasts back in the day but even then when I just had something on in my earphones I always wanted to see the speaker. Also, it's much easier rewinding on a computer than a phone or mp3 player. We do not want ENGLISH subtitles, but if we can get Japanese subtitles that is excellent (variety shows will have these somewhat). If you do have the option of Japanese subtitles, use them AFTER you attempt listening to it a few times and if you're truly stumped. With variety shows, you can practice your simultaneous reading+listening with their popup subs.
Once you have your piece of media. You watch it and stop every time you don't understand something. Yep, we're going to go piece by piece through the content and almost transcribe the script. Let me pause (harhar) right here and get something out of the way. I figured I'd put this note inside the method so it grabbed people reading this far. Do not do this study method with something you want to enjoy.
What I mean is, let's say you really want to watch Hana Yori Dango (part 1+2). Using this study method will make you hate the show. If you really want to watch it, watch the show first and enjoy it. Then, if you want to use it as one of your study pieces, go for it. But you will hate yourself and the content if it's something you actually want to relax with. I wholeheartedly recommend consuming it first.
Now, back to the method. I would go sentence by sentence until I hit a spot I didn't know. I'd rewind it over and over until I could understand every word. I'd write it down in Japanese, define any word/grammar I didn't know, then repeat it OUT LOUD VERBALLY. Finally I would timestamp the line.
Just to be clear, we're not transcribing every single line - only ones we find new (as in don't understand), difficult, helpful, or interesting. You could definitely transcribe it all if you want for practice, but again, common sense, time saving, and fatigue. Now, of course, getting through a single episode of say a 45 minute drama usually took me 2-3 hours, sometimes even split between two days. This is why you want to enjoy the show first if it's that kind of thing for you.
At the end of the content, I'd review my entire list and go timestamp by timestamp to listen to the moment again and RECITE IT OUT LOUD. This part was important for 1. making it stick in your head, 2. practicing pronunciation and any dialect, 3. practicing not being a pussy and being willing to speak Japanese out loud. You'd be surprised how many people are afraid of speaking out loud for 'fear of sounding dumb.' Looking dumb is worse.
Let's review. I would create a menu of content for a week. For example:
Monday: Drama episode
Tuesday: News
Wednesday: Talk show
Thursday: Drama episode
Friday: Game show
Saturday/Sunday: Review by rewatching all 5 previous media without pausing or using notes.
I would begin the media and pause whenever I felt I didn't understand something. I'd rewind until I felt comfortable I knew what was being said. I'd transcribe the line in Japanese, define unknown phrases using some sort of dictionary, timestamp it, and practice it orally. Then continue on until I hit the next piece I didn't understand. Repeat until finish media. Then, review using timestamps and practice the listening/reciting again. At the end of the week, I would rewatch each piece of media without notes and without pausing, letting my ear and brain adapt naturally.
And that's it. No writing list, no insane repetition, just good old fashion study. Nothing revolutionary. Depending on what I watched, I could be done with this exercise in an hour or a lot more. Also, outside of this study I also freely consumed shows/movies/news/whatever without using this method. Just enjoying and watching naturally.
In my opinion, this part of my study is what gave me my greatest advantage when going up against others, even greater than reading kanji. A native speaker not having to slow or dumb down their talking to you is such a wonderful thing for them.
A few quick FAQs:
What if I listen to something over and over and just cannot comprehend/make it out?
You have two options. If you have access to a native speaker, you ask them. Dead serious. I did this many times with friends and it made a world of difference understanding why I couldn't comprehend. Maybe it was the way a word was pronounced differently than I thought it'd be. Maybe it was slang or a dialect. Maybe I just didn't know the right vocab. The other option is to let it go. Don't kill yourself over one tiny piece if you just can't get it. I definitely did not 100% understand the media by the weekend review. Don't get caught up on that.
What if I kind of understand something..like I get the meaning and know all the words.. it's just.. too fast?
It's up to you how much supplemental stuff you take note of. In the beginning, you'll say 'oh, I know what he said, I just couldn't repeat it right now if you asked me to.' If you want to pause and practice that phrase or pattern, go for it. Just realize it will make the process much longer. If you're at a point with certain things that you understand but just have trouble producing off the top of your head, it's worth it to study it a bit to get it to stuck.
What do you recommend to start with?
No fantasy, no songs, no weird shit, and be very careful of dialect-heavy stuff in the beginning. I chose Heyx3 as one of my early shows and it was PAINFUL. The payoff was amazing as my Japanese was in default Kansai-ben, I ended up living in Kansai, and I married someone from Kansai.. but it was definitely throwing myself into the fire from early on.
I recommend basic interview shows, like the morning talk show segments. I recommend simple concept dramas. For example, no Hanzawa Naoki, yes Gokusen. I recommend any NHK-like segment or documentary. Even that Hotcast podcast people listen to here is good for natural content. I gave it a few minutes listen.
What's the number one thing to watch out for when practicing listening?
Let me end on this. A lot of people say Asian languages have a hard time expressing every kind of situation or emotion that western languages can. I completely disagree. Actually, I think Asian languages, especially Japanese, can express things that even English can't.
In the beginning with this method, if you're not well-acquainted with verbal Japanese, you will scratch your head at all of the ~eeeeee, naniiiiii, ureshiiiiii, oishiiiiiii type of shit. You'll ask yourself, do I really have to sound like that when I speak Japanese? Yes. Because it's a part of how they express themselves, and knowing that form of expression is important for you to convey ideas to them that they can understand. I'm almost diving into speaking, which I won't do here, but take note in your listening practice just how similar yet utterly different the Japanese way of saying something is. Take note of all the little things you notice they verbalize that we would never in English, and why it's natural for them, but sounds so unnatural for us.
(Bonus/My ramblings)
To prove my point about songs, let me post this link (not full version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PblTYym9TrI
This song is written in a way that is incredibly difficult to express in English. It conveys thoughts and ideas in a way totally different than English would, even though it's using basic words that obviously exist in both languages. Don't use this song to study, just try to see that there's more underneath this song than just understanding the literal meaning of the words. There's an emotion under there that I don't find expressed in my native language or English often.
Let me ask, how would you translate the meaning (not literally) of kawatte shimawanaide or wasurete shimawanaide (from the full version) into English?
That is basically what I feared - break down of whatever you listen to, piece by piece. Thanks again.
I think because of time restraints (trying to squeeze in all the other study) I won't be able to get 7 days a week of listening practice. Concrete, I'll have Friday, Sat, Sun, maybe 2 other days, so it will have to do until I finish the Kanji and Grammar study and can go 7 days a week.
It helps having someone tell you that you need to go batshit hardcore to get what you want. I don't want to pass N1 Listening just because I practiced picking out the key sections of the sentence in order to provide an answer; I want to naturally understand like 95% of what is happening, not have it fall out of my brain, and be able to answer it because I just flat out understood the conversation. Plenty of time between now and July/Dec for that.
I think because of time restraints (trying to squeeze in all the other study) I won't be able to get 7 days a week of listening practice. Concrete, I'll have Friday, Sat, Sun, maybe 2 other days, so it will have to do until I finish the Kanji and Grammar study and can go 7 days a week.
It helps having someone tell you that you need to go batshit hardcore to get what you want. I don't want to pass N1 Listening just because I practiced picking out the key sections of the sentence in order to provide an answer; I want to naturally understand like 95% of what is happening, not have it fall out of my brain, and be able to answer it because I just flat out understood the conversation. Plenty of time between now and July/Dec for that.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The truth is you'll get that level of listening if you dedicate 2-3 hours to listening every day and are proactive about wanting to learn when you hear something new. If you don't want to do it at this granular level like my method, that's fine. For me, the point of this style of practice was that I'd hit a section I didn't get and slowly unravel the mystery as to why my ear didn't catch it. The growth came from figuring out stuff like 'oh, you can pronounce it this way!' and then the next time I heard something like that point I didn't need to break it down again. While a lot of the times it was vocab/grammar I was lacking, the majority was really just getting used to the flow of the language and its phonics. And of course this connected to my speaking study that came after this section.
So yeah, if you're getting your ears used to jgo some way, that's great. But if you just put on a podcast in your ear for an hour and let it play, but don't some how follow up on it to gain knowledge, I don't really get what the point is. Maybe it works? I just can't vouch for that.
nah, it doesn't work. I thought that I would get used to it, but it needs to be broken down. I have, I think, finally streamlined my whiteboard study set up, freeing up about 2 hours that was dead time. so I have time after work to fit at least an hour of listening in, with fri-sun being bigger days. reality is, there is no other way to break down the listening without taking it to the level you described, it has to be done lol.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Yeah, I know I'm right. I was just trying to be nice. My methods are not the only way to learn a language of course, but I do guarantee they work. Because they're so bat shit insane.
3 months of this style of listening will severely level up your listening, but fair warning, it takes YEARS AND YEARS of listening to really get a natural ear. Unlike Kanji which is a measurable quantity of knowledge, listening is not. I'd say minimum 5 years in Japan to achieve a ~90% accuracy rate of listening. My method will get your ear tuned into Jgo, but the switch, the switch is much further in the future.
3 months of this style of listening will severely level up your listening, but fair warning, it takes YEARS AND YEARS of listening to really get a natural ear. Unlike Kanji which is a measurable quantity of knowledge, listening is not. I'd say minimum 5 years in Japan to achieve a ~90% accuracy rate of listening. My method will get your ear tuned into Jgo, but the switch, the switch is much further in the future.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Told this story before, no? Maybe not in amazing detail. I mean the ultimate goal was money. I grew up in a semi-poor family but coming to America gave us some chances. A great higher education was one for me. To make sure money wasn't an issue in my life in the future, I chose business+an international area to lower the risk of not making money. Said before, I wish I chose Chinese or Arabic or something lol. But at the time, Japanese was a fine choice.
But of course simply enrolling in school courses wasn't enough. They're too slow and too narrow. I also found out about the JLPT and knew I'd need the cert for the jobs I wanted to apply for. JLPT1+studying in Tokyo=basically any job I want at grad. JLPT was in December, it was August when I devised this plan, so there's my time limit. I said Sept, Oct, Nov let's pass jlpt1. Again, easy for me because all I had was basic school courses a few hours a week and I lived at home otherwise.
I mean, it wasn't really crazy.. isn't deciding and focusing on something the opposite of 'crazy' lol. My personality is like this though. I've done the same thing with other hobbies, like watches or working out. I don't want to be a jack of all trades, rather be a master of some.
Coincidental life choices thread in OT: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1153595
This is what I was not lol. I think I had this convo (argument) in the J-gaf thread before. People wanting to 'do what they like' for a living. Making money allows me to do what I like. Sure, if you asked me my dream job, I could reply with some shit like twitch streamer, race car driver, jdrama watcher. Yes, that'd make me happy. But being financially free is also a path to happiness. Those few months years ago for this dumb test and the ease of adapting to the language gave me that chance.
Small sacrifice, big reward. Not crazy at all.
But of course simply enrolling in school courses wasn't enough. They're too slow and too narrow. I also found out about the JLPT and knew I'd need the cert for the jobs I wanted to apply for. JLPT1+studying in Tokyo=basically any job I want at grad. JLPT was in December, it was August when I devised this plan, so there's my time limit. I said Sept, Oct, Nov let's pass jlpt1. Again, easy for me because all I had was basic school courses a few hours a week and I lived at home otherwise.
I mean, it wasn't really crazy.. isn't deciding and focusing on something the opposite of 'crazy' lol. My personality is like this though. I've done the same thing with other hobbies, like watches or working out. I don't want to be a jack of all trades, rather be a master of some.
Coincidental life choices thread in OT: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1153595
This is what I was not lol. I think I had this convo (argument) in the J-gaf thread before. People wanting to 'do what they like' for a living. Making money allows me to do what I like. Sure, if you asked me my dream job, I could reply with some shit like twitch streamer, race car driver, jdrama watcher. Yes, that'd make me happy. But being financially free is also a path to happiness. Those few months years ago for this dumb test and the ease of adapting to the language gave me that chance.
Small sacrifice, big reward. Not crazy at all.
Splash Wave
Member
Would anyone mind translating a short, 4-5 sentence note for me? I'm leaving Japan, and I wanted to leave a short thank-you note to the owner of the bar to whom I owe a lot!
PM me if you're interested.
PM me if you're interested.
I will agree with Expert on the consuming media aspect, specially things like game shows at first as they seem to be the shows that display the most subtitles, which at least for me were useful during my first steps of learning the language, plus they are overall much more visual so it's easier to understand what's going on, and be able to concentrate better.
Again, that was for me, but watching lots of shows definitely helped. Not a big fan of news as it always seemed way too rigid (obviously) and somewhat boring :/, but still watched it. I remember learning a lot of words during the weeks following 3/11 when it seemed to be 70% or so news.
Again, that was for me, but watching lots of shows definitely helped. Not a big fan of news as it always seemed way too rigid (obviously) and somewhat boring :/, but still watched it. I remember learning a lot of words during the weeks following 3/11 when it seemed to be 70% or so news.
Porcile
Member
So the complete "A Dictionary of ____ Japanese Grammar" series is worth a punt then? I'll buy all three at once if so. Would it mean I could ditch textbooks and simply just use JLPT grammar lists online like Zefah linked to and just cross reference with the dictionaries for meanings and examples? Bearing in mind my immediate goal (within the next three months) is to build the foundations to pass that test next December in Japan. Do those dictionaries cover grammar up to and beyond N1?
Textbooks are OK obviously, but their content isn't exhaustive enough, and I want a long term resource without having to jump between different series. Everything in one place would be very nice indeed...
Good idea...bad idea??
Textbooks are OK obviously, but their content isn't exhaustive enough, and I want a long term resource without having to jump between different series. Everything in one place would be very nice indeed...
Good idea...bad idea??
stump sock
Member
I can't imagine ever needing another grammar reference outside of those.
Porcile
Member
Is the Advanced one in Japanese only? Probably not a problem if you're at the level where you'd be needing an advanced dictionary but I'm just curious.
For what it's worth, I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation.
TheSporkWithin
Member
No, all explanations are in English. In fact, while the example sentences are in Japanese (with furigana on all kanji), the bulk of the explanatory texts use romaji. They're very exhaustive and break things down to minute levels, going into differences between usage patterns in much greater detail than most of the textbooks and test-prep books I've seen.
If you want an all-Japanese grammar reference, I've been using 日本語文型辞典: Amazon.jp Amazon.com.
If you want a book series that will take you step by step through N1, get the Kanzen Master grammar books. They're great. Up to N3 they have English and Japanese explanations for everything, N2 and N1 are Japanese-only.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I'm not done with it yet lol, just need time to respond to you and zefah.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
This is exactly what I did, yes. No textbooks, just the bibles, but I never even got the red one. Now I want it. The blue one though I still have my original one..we've been through a lot together.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
Just started to take learning Japanese seriously. I've learned bits and pieces but nothing beyond Hiragana and Katakana and maybe some verbs. Now I'm basically in a private school and the teacher barely speaks english. We're already on to Kanji which I know isn't a big deal but it's fun and I want to keep learning. Any solid advice for a beginner?
And also totally off topic but where can I watch older J-Dramas? Like IWGP and the old GTO etc. I can't find them anywhere and I miss them (PM if you need to concerning this! Thanks!).
And also totally off topic but where can I watch older J-Dramas? Like IWGP and the old GTO etc. I can't find them anywhere and I miss them
(PM if you need to concerning this! Thanks!).- Status