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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Is that so? I apologize for calling it worthless, then. I don't think I have ever seen anything that asked for JLPT certification but didn't require 1-kyuu/N1.
Pretty much was my understanding. I had to get the certification to do a study abroad program, which is why I crammed studied for it originally.
Either way, I think everyone who studies the language seriously and has any desire to use it professionally should focus only on N1. Even just taking it and failing once will give you a big advantage the next time when it comes to what to expect.
TheSporkWithin
Member
Nothing asked for ２級, but the N2 is actually quite a bit harder than ２級, which became N3 under the new system. N3 is worth the paper it's printed on (though of course if it's a personal benchmark there's nothing wrong with taking it). N2 covers nearly all of the "daily use" grammar that you'll see (basically everything you'd learn through junior high school), with N1 covering more advanced stuff (things likely learned in high school classes). N2 is actually the baseline for a surprising percentage of the job listings that I've seen, though of course they all say that N1 is preferred. For a little more perspective, as I recall N2 is all that's required to enroll in college in Japan (of course the college's entrance exams must also be passed), while N1 is the requirement for graduate programs.
As for only taking the N1, I'm of two minds. Failing the N1 is good prep for passing the N1, to be sure, but holding an N2 can qualify you for some freelance translation jobs (not very well-paying ones, to be sure) and other opportunities in the meantime while you continue to work towards N1. I'm prepping for the N2 this summer as I think that passing the N2 and being able to take on translation jobs will be more beneficial to me than taking the N1 and likely failing. I'll probably be shooting for the N1 this winter though.
EDIT: should probably note, the above assessment is mostly about grammar. The vocabulary on the N1 is much more demanding, and probably the area that I have the most ground to cover in. To pass N2 you are expected to have a fairly solid working vocabulary, but N1 expects much more specific words related to politics, economics, business and such. Again, it's probably about the difference you'd expect between a junior high schooler's vocabulary regarding politics vs. a high school student's.
Wow, that about five months ago already. Shows me just how poorly I've been managing my time.
I've known about this thread for a while, but never posted because I didn't feel like I had anything to add, or even question. I'm not happy with how slowly my studies have been going though. I think it's time I changed how I approach this, so I'm glad to see this was brought up again.
PreyingShark
Member
Well I mean, here's the thing. The guy I was responding to is doing what, an ALT gig? He'll have to wait until the contract ends to get a new job.
So the way I see it, what happens in July wouldn't matter too much anyways unless I'm completely misunderstanding how ALTs work.
So the way I see it, what happens in July wouldn't matter too much anyways unless I'm completely misunderstanding how ALTs work.
i have a simple question..故も just means "the late/deceased" whoever the person is, right?
pretty fked up isn't it. 5 months went really, really quickly lol.
pretty fked up isn't it. 5 months went really, really quickly lol.
I could do it but I'm really busy with college right now and I would probably fill it up with moe shit just to spite you guys. If it's simple and not urgent I can do it.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I'll probably post the OT anyway and then you or anyone can just add any type of layout/banner updates through edits. I've already confirmed with a mod that I can post it in Off Topic first and then it will be moved, so keeping it close to the first page (through normal posting of course) could probably secure a larger audience for this thread. I will most likely have the thread up tomorrow or Tuesday the latest. I'll post here when it's up and you'll probably have like a ~day before this thread gets locked.
I few weeks back I finally wanted to get the kanji wall behind me and started a very bare bones version of what I could remember from that post, and have already made better progress than anything else I've tried before. haha.
I could be so much further along if I was willing to change up my methods when I first saw that post. Nothing I can do about that now other than to stop half-assing it in these next 5 months.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Tried to stress the time thing throughout my posts. It's such a tiny investment. Few months of dedicated study for a lifetime of being able to participate in a culture. The thing about it is that you can apply the same mentality to anything in life. That's why I feel so passionate about that method even outside of the Japanese. It's why I'm where I am in life.
here's my quick Amazon review of the best gains from using the whiteboard method.
1. reduce time needed to sleep and function to 4-5 hours. gain 3-4 hours per day.
2. ability to just do things and not complain about them.
3. established blueprint for discipline when picking up any new task with a goal.
4. learning japanese.
1. reduce time needed to sleep and function to 4-5 hours. gain 3-4 hours per day.
2. ability to just do things and not complain about them.
3. established blueprint for discipline when picking up any new task with a goal.
4. learning japanese.
PreyingShark
Member
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
No, probably not.
While 故人 means dead person, 故も is probably 「ゆえも」. 故（ゆえ） means something along the lines of reason or purpose. 故もない "without any particular reason/purpose."
What's the context? Dark Souls?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Really agree with the part in bold. A few months sacrifice (maybe not even that depending on how your situation at the time) for a lifetime of new ability that opens up doors and leads to new discoveries.
Looking forward to the new thread!
Damn..up until today I was reading it as ゆえも, and yeah, it's an item from Dark Souls, I was reading this 故も知らぬ旅人のソウル as Soul of Purposeless/Ignorant Traveler. But, thinking about it today though I thought it might have been deceased at the start, but hey looking at it that way it doesn't really make sense.
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/224838/meaning/m0u/
I know this is one of those things that doesn't translate well at all, but I kept reading it (picking up the item) and it was annoying me.
PreyingShark
Member
How I would translate it (then again I'm a fraud but w/e):
"Soul of Traveler That Doesn't Know Their Purpose (in traveling)"
"Soul of Aimless Traveler"
"Aimless Traveler's Soul"
Also might end up doing something like the grammar portion of the whiteboard method, we'll see.
"Soul of Traveler That Doesn't Know Their Purpose (in traveling)"
"Soul of Aimless Traveler"
"Aimless Traveler's Soul"
Also might end up doing something like the grammar portion of the whiteboard method, we'll see.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+of+an+Unknown+Traveler is the official localization.
Jumping to こ as the reading seems fairly reasonable given the context, in which you're picking up a soul, probably from a corpse, in a game where death is a huge theme and is everywhere.
PreyingShark
Member
Oh okay. I usually do that too unless it seems like something important, like an ability description or something. In those cases I make sure to read carefully because there are times I can't even kana. Like, recently I read 妹と食べた as 妹を食べた...
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The more I draft the thread, the less and less I like it. I don't want it to be just a collection of links and shit. I feel like an FAQ style op makes more sense. I think the only thing that needs linking are like.. Jim Breen, JLPT, and the grammar bibles.
What I'd really rather do is make it an index of the most helpful posts in this thread, I just don't have the time to search and index. Perhaps I can post the faq version and slowly update it with links over the weeks.
edit: ok at the very least someone make a title banner for the top, small box/rectangle shape thing lol.. thread looks dumb without a logo.
Also thread title ideas please. Nothing too weeb but for some reason having BIG ASS in this thread title always made it easy to find.
What I'd really rather do is make it an index of the most helpful posts in this thread, I just don't have the time to search and index. Perhaps I can post the faq version and slowly update it with links over the weeks.
edit: ok at the very least someone make a title banner for the top, small box/rectangle shape thing lol.. thread looks dumb without a logo.
Also thread title ideas please. Nothing too weeb but for some reason having BIG ASS in this thread title always made it easy to find.
I think giving an overview of the language would be interesting. Talk about the writing systems, say that it's an agglutinative language and what that means practically, talk about pitch accent and general info on pronunciation, thia kind of stuff.
After that give some resources, like The Dictionary of ______ Japanese Grammar, imabi.net and Tae Kim, jisho.org, weblio, alc and goo.ne (online dictionaries), and that kind of stuff.
Then the FAQ providing the general guidelines and stuff which link to good posts in this thread.
I'll try to do the top banner today.
As for the thread title, i suggest
The Most　✿ Kawaii　✿ thread for learning Japanese |OT| (๑̀ㅂ́
و✧　頑張ってねThat title....that title is all we need. Do it. Do it.
I think you already know, that your way of doing things is not approachable for many. So if your goal is to get new people in the thread, we are probably gonna need another approach, like you said there are a lot of helpful posts in the thread but linking them would be a cop out. Maybe if those posters could contribute (in a more OT style format)? Marimo comes to mind?
Also, I trust your judgement so I think whatever you're gonna come up with should be fine. But having two approaches will be important, let the ppl decide which way they wanna start their studies. Maybe have a format like Kansoku mentioned, then branch and have these two approaches. i was gonna say to mention that they aren't mutually exclusive, but they are lol. That's what makes creating a new OT hard. Can't you just deal with it?
I think you already know, that your way of doing things is not approachable for many. So if your goal is to get new people in the thread, we are probably gonna need another approach, like you said there are a lot of helpful posts in the thread but linking them would be a cop out. Maybe if those posters could contribute (in a more OT style format)? Marimo comes to mind?
Also, I trust your judgement so I think whatever you're gonna come up with should be fine. But having two approaches will be important, let the ppl decide which way they wanna start their studies. Maybe have a format like Kansoku mentioned, then branch and have these two approaches. i was gonna say to mention that they aren't mutually exclusive, but they are lol. That's what makes creating a new OT hard. Can't you just deal with it?
shanshan310
Member
I guess for beginners It'd be good to have some links to good, all-rounder type learning tools which, uh, someone else is gonna have to come up with since I did all my beginner stuff in high school and on exchange. I know Japanesepod101 is good with lesson plans and such? I think it might be worth including so people don't feel overwhelmed and have a nice, structured place to start.
As long as the thread doesn't say BIG ASS again I'll be happy I don't know why but it always felt kinda weird to me.
As long as the thread doesn't say BIG ASS again I'll be happy
I don't know why but it always felt kinda weird to me.
OK, figure I should give a better contribution than the above lol considering all the help I've had from the thread.
First, the best OTs are short. This is a language and you (and others) already know more than 95% of it, so you can easily cover the essentials without getting caught in details. Let the student get caught in that themselves (part of learning).
Outline the basics (which you already said you were gonna do):
Hiragana, Katakana - where to learn it (I learned years ago - can't help on this one). Emphasis on the student using the correct stroke order, practicing hand-writing early on (will help with retention + Kanji later).
Grammar - N5/N4. これはペンです。 All that easy stuff. Again...basic grammar I can't help with content/links. But Jgram should have that stuff. actually it does right here under JLPT4.　renshuu.org is handy too but you have to register see here. the grammar bibles, specifically the yellow book...should really just be here though. it's essential early on. just make people buy it and list it as the only entry under grammar
Kanji - a tough one. people just get scared of it straight-away and always go "yeah, next month" or "soon". not sure how to force this on people, but it should be a part of any study early on. can't use hiragana forever.
Apps - "Japanese" app on iOS is handy, as an English JPN dictionary. Has input for stroke order, looking up words that end/start with a kanji. it's handy, i recommend it for beginners. there are a other apps (J > J), 大辞林　is a good J>J that SporkWithin suggested; touch highlighting and a jump function. i use it and can vouch for it (for intermediate/advanced level).
Anki - people love this shit, i don't use it, if somebody else thinks it should be included, maybe highlight why it's useful (succinctly), an example of how it works (And why), and how to use it.
After all that junk...then list the study methods. Whiteboard + listening. And then the easier/more laid back approaches. Like I said, not everyone likes your cake even though some ppl think it taste good. Bring some staples, then let the student choose which way they want to go. I think the listening though, you just can't go wrong with that one, and that should be encouraged, no matter what method the student uses. so just copy and paste that Listening post you made.
First, the best OTs are short. This is a language and you (and others) already know more than 95% of it, so you can easily cover the essentials without getting caught in details. Let the student get caught in that themselves (part of learning).
Outline the basics (which you already said you were gonna do):
Hiragana, Katakana - where to learn it (I learned years ago - can't help on this one). Emphasis on the student using the correct stroke order, practicing hand-writing early on (will help with retention + Kanji later).
Grammar - N5/N4. これはペンです。 All that easy stuff. Again...basic grammar I can't help with content/links. But Jgram should have that stuff. actually it does right here under JLPT4.　renshuu.org is handy too but you have to register see here. the grammar bibles, specifically the yellow book...should really just be here though. it's essential early on. just make people buy it and list it as the only entry under grammar
Kanji - a tough one. people just get scared of it straight-away and always go "yeah, next month" or "soon". not sure how to force this on people, but it should be a part of any study early on. can't use hiragana forever.
Apps - "Japanese" app on iOS is handy, as an English JPN dictionary. Has input for stroke order, looking up words that end/start with a kanji. it's handy, i recommend it for beginners. there are a other apps (J > J), 大辞林　is a good J>J that SporkWithin suggested; touch highlighting and a jump function. i use it and can vouch for it (for intermediate/advanced level).
Anki - people love this shit, i don't use it, if somebody else thinks it should be included, maybe highlight why it's useful (succinctly), an example of how it works (And why), and how to use it.
After all that junk...then list the study methods. Whiteboard + listening. And then the easier/more laid back approaches. Like I said, not everyone likes your cake even though some ppl think it taste good. Bring some staples, then let the student choose which way they want to go. I think the listening though, you just can't go wrong with that one, and that should be encouraged, no matter what method the student uses. so just copy and paste that Listening post you made.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
While i completely disagree with pretty much everything you guys said, I immensely appreciate the feedback and will make some appropriate changes. The big thing is I plan to update the thread quite frequently so if you guys want changes, its easily done. I don't really have any personal claim to it, would rather it be a group project.
But I really dislike the link compendium layout. I dont need to be the 900th guide that links shit like Tae Kim. Also zero interest in rehashing shit like hiragana. I'll link to outside sources that do a better job of explaining that. This is a community thread, not a wiki or tutorial. Does that make sense?
But I really dislike the link compendium layout. I dont need to be the 900th guide that links shit like Tae Kim. Also zero interest in rehashing shit like hiragana. I'll link to outside sources that do a better job of explaining that. This is a community thread, not a wiki or tutorial. Does that make sense?
If you just say "this is hiragana, go learn it" that's really enough; there will be a lot of "but help me find that!" because Google is down, but at least it will be interesting to watch.
Good point about linking, there are already heaps of "wiki" like posts out there. We should use the best of what people have posted here because those have been the most useful contributions from this thread. I'll scour through posts and link what I think is pretty choice if you can wait like...16 hours.
Good point about linking, there are already heaps of "wiki" like posts out there. We should use the best of what people have posted here because those have been the most useful contributions from this thread. I'll scour through posts and link what I think is pretty choice if you can wait like...16 hours.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
If I linked you guys the current draft you'd probably laugh because I mention kana never and kanji has paragraphs dedicated to it. Kana doesn't even register in my head as something to discuss, its .5% of Japanese study at most.
I agree that a collection of experiences, thoughts, reviews etc from the previous thread is way better than linking to Genki. I need some time too.
I agree that a collection of experiences, thoughts, reviews etc from the previous thread is way better than linking to Genki. I need some time too.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Yeah like I said, great feedback because ill def retool it to be more precise.
Kana can be learned in a night with a Google search, so that seems about right.
i like the community idea: how people have learned, are learning, etc. There's enough link databases out there.
How to ask questions and wrap ones mind around language is key. You once answered something about the order of nouns in something like xのyのz which I thought was good.
Non-native English speaking perspectives can also be good.
TheSporkWithin
Member
Ban romaji.
Underscore the importance of not overthinking and spending hours finding the "best" study tools - especially when it comes to kana.
Emphasize that learning Japanese is a shitton of work, but that literally anyone can do it if they're willing to put in the time and effort. Age doesn't matter, but so many people like to use it as a cop-out excuse for why they just can't do language learning.
Talk about how rewarding it feels to realize that your comprehension is increasing on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. This is something that most of us haven't experienced since elementary school, and it is an absolutely amazing feeling to pick up a book that you put down a few weeks back which you remember being really difficult, but now you realize that you can read and understand it clearly.
Underscore the importance of not overthinking and spending hours finding the "best" study tools - especially when it comes to kana.
Emphasize that learning Japanese is a shitton of work, but that literally anyone can do it if they're willing to put in the time and effort. Age doesn't matter, but so many people like to use it as a cop-out excuse for why they just can't do language learning.
Talk about how rewarding it feels to realize that your comprehension is increasing on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. This is something that most of us haven't experienced since elementary school, and it is an absolutely amazing feeling to pick up a book that you put down a few weeks back which you remember being really difficult, but now you realize that you can read and understand it clearly.
Porcile
Member
Things are getting pretty desu in here, よ。
Just admit it. He ate his little sister. Some kind of fetishist LN you're reading there.
PreyingShark
Member
It was a she and it was Twitter.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I think it would only be fitting for Expert to decide just what is and isn't a huge part of Japanese culture!
Totally makes sense to me. While others may have different views on the subject, I don't think the thread is supposed to be a call to action to learn Japanese or a tutorial on how to do so, but more of an actual community thread for people who are already either interested in learning the language or are already actively doing so. On that note, I don't think a section on Hiragana/Katakana is necessary, but I suppose it can't hurt.
Do you plan to post it in Off-Topic first or immediately into the Community section?
Totally makes sense to me. While others may have different views on the subject, I don't think the thread is supposed to be a call to action to learn Japanese or a tutorial on how to do so, but more of an actual community thread for people who are already either interested in learning the language or are already actively doing so. On that note, I don't think a section on Hiragana/Katakana is necessary, but I suppose it can't hurt.
Do you plan to post it in Off-Topic first or immediately into the Community section?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
It will go in off topic first for a few weeks. Last chance for title ideas. I'm thinking Japanese Language OT - A NeoGAF community for cultural experts
LorDjidane
Member
Missing the dattebayo at the end.
PreyingShark
Member
Japanese Language OT - Trust Me, I'm An Expert; You're a Moron
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Doori plan (doori means all according to)
But dumb folk wouldn't get it
But dumb folk wouldn't get it
There isn't a :rolleyes big enough in this world or the next...
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