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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese

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Started studying in my free time on Wednesday. I can recognize all the hiragana with a good success rate, and I've got about half the Katakana down. I'm not so good at writing them yet. Trying to figure out where to go after I'm done with the kana. I kind of wish I'd stuck with Japanese classes in college, but I guess it's only too late to pick up a new language when you're dead.
 

RoyalFool

Banned
I feel like I've plateaued with my Japanese for a while now, especially because I haven't been taking classes for a year and haven't had time to work out a proper approach yet. (Taking several lab classes simultaneously will do that to you.) Can anyone recommend any good lesson plans for kanji/grammar for someone who has finished with Genki I/II?

I honestly don't know where to go from here. I'd say that kanji is definitely my greatest bottleneck right now. And I definitely know that I need some form of structure to stay motivated.

I know that feeling, after I'd finished all the books I had a really hard time finding study material that wasn't either too easy or super difficult. I think the publishers know that 95% of people will have given up by the end of Genki II! I'd give my left testicle (or right, no preference really) for a Genki III.

The next step normally is to start cramming those Kanji, but I found Heisig's method to be completely soul destroying and sapped all the fun out of learning a language - being taught old kanji you'll never use because they form a component of a kanji you are going to be learning in a months time isn't fun.

The good news is if Genki 2 is now a breeze, you are probably ready to simply learn via practice. Native English speakers learning Japanese are gold-dust on most language exchange sites so you'll have no problem finding a skype partner or friends on Lang8 (or similar).

I find Flash cards are a good motivation, Anki 2 is brilliant at guilt tripping you into studying every day "But if I don't do it today, I'll have 100+ to review tomorrow!! and it has a load of really good pre-built decks you can use.
 
ha は is pronounced as wa わ only when used as a particle. Some words will use haは to be pronounced as wa わ as well because the ha is being used as a particle. Those are very very rare though. Konbanwa こんばんは is an example that will use haは.. I think only the greetings will use it that way.

Heへ is pronounced as eえ only when used as a particle. There isn't any words that will use he with the particle sound e.

Wo を is pronounced as o お because it is a particle and will only be used as a particle.

Everything is straightforward and those 3 are the only exceptions.

Sometimes the U in す、く、etc... will not be said, but that is up to the user (most likely be omitted). For instance, you'll notice in desu, the u is dropped and sounds more like des. Or with Yuusuke. It will sound like Yuuske. Another example is 好き 「すき」. It will sound like ski instead of suki. The u was dropped or rather, slurred. The slurring of words will be more noticeable as you become more familiar with the language.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

So I have a question, is "wa" わ not used as a particle? When I hear "watashi wa" is the "ha" は the particle being used? Or are both used for different purposes in writing?

As for "U" dropping, yeah I noticed that a lot. I hear it stressed during certain words, but most of the time it seems dropped entirely, except for in singing where it is stressed a lot. I assume it is simply a matter of accent, though I assume most teachers in the U.S. will take off points if you stress the "u" sound where most wouldn't.

Anyway thank you for the really informative post. :)
 

Adamm

Member
Started studying in my free time on Wednesday. I can recognize all the hiragana with a good success rate, and I've got about half the Katakana down. I'm not so good at writing them yet. Trying to figure out where to go after I'm done with the kana. I kind of wish I'd stuck with Japanese classes in college, but I guess it's only too late to pick up a new language when you're dead.

If you want to go the textbook route then I would recommend picking up Genki I. Its quite an expensive textbook, but I think most people agree its one of the best out there.

So I have a question, is "wa" わ not used as a particle? When I hear "watashi wa" is the "ha" は the particle being used? Or are both used for different purposes in writing?

As for "U" dropping, yeah I noticed that a lot. I hear it stressed during certain words, but most of the time it seems dropped entirely, except for in singing where it is stressed a lot. I assume it is simply a matter of accent, though I assume most teachers in the U.S. will take off points if you stress the "u" sound where most wouldn't.

Anyway thank you for the really informative post. :)

Correct, わ is never used as a particle, it is always は. So "watashi wa" is "わたしは" so は is the particle.
 

Rayis

Member
I feel like I really need to practice my Japanese, it is melting away to nothing やばい!!
 

Desmond

Member
Hey guys, just finished my first year of Japanese in college and I will be going to a university in Japan for the summer months. Don't mean to brag but I did well in exams though personally I feel kanji to be my weak spot. Any kanji tips whilst being in Japan? Is it just the same idea as I'd do at home? Practice, practice, practice?
 
I find Flash cards are a good motivation, Anki 2 is brilliant at guilt tripping you into studying every day "But if I don't do it today, I'll have 100+ to review tomorrow!! and it has a load of really good pre-built decks you can use.
Hold the phone, there's an Anki 2!?!?!


I'm going to purchase a Minna no Nihongo vol 1 along with my copy of Remembering the Kanji and Kanji poster later this month once I master hiragana/katakana. Thoughts on Minna no Nihongo? I assume Genki is better for an absolute beginner?

I used it while I was living in Japan. I think It'll suit your learning style well. The main text is all in Japanese, and each chapter introduces new grammar, vocab and kanji with lots of examples. There's a separate book for grammar and vocab explanations that you can refer back to.
 

Ledsen

Member
I'm going to purchase a Minna no Nihongo vol 1 along with my copy of Remembering the Kanji and Kanji poster later this month once I master hiragana/katakana. Thoughts on Minna no Nihongo? I assume Genki is better for an absolute beginner?

I liked MNN well enough, although I used it in a class room in Tokyo. It's pretty cool and has Mr Miller, the most badass gaijin ever to grace Japan with his presence!
 
question, how do you use どう? meaning where can you place it in a sentence.

for example, i was working on this sample question:
私達はどう大仏へ行きますか

is どう where it should be? can it be used this way? also, i know 行きます is probably not the most correct verb, but i'm trying to do what i can with my limited vocabulary (for now). thanks!
 
question, how do you use どう? meaning where can you place it in a sentence.

for example, i was working on this sample question:
私達はどう大仏へ行きますか

is どう where it should be? can it be used this way? also, i know 行きます is probably not the most correct verb, but i'm trying to do what i can with my limited vocabulary (for now). thanks!

For that one I'd say "私達はどうやって大仏に行きますか?". Which verb where you looking for? That one seems to fit fine.
 
For that one I'd say "私達はどうやって大仏に行きますか?". Which verb where you looking for? That one seems to fit fine.

i suppose i figured there might be a better verb than "go", like "to get to" but yeah i suppose it works fine. what does the やって mean here?
 

Zoe

Member
i suppose i figured there might be a better verb than "go", like "to get to" but yeah i suppose it works fine. what does the やって mean here?

It's 'yaru.' Like "what do you do to go to the Daibutsu?"

If you want emphasis on 'go', then get rid of 'yatte' and put 'dou' in front of 'ikimasu'.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
I need some help with a comment I got again. I posted about how I was excited for Animal Crossing: New Leaf to come out tomorrow.

こんにちは。はじめまして。
ゲームのお話でしょうか?

日本語頑張ってください^^

Specifically, the part I'm having trouble with is this.
ゲームのお話でしょうか?
 
I need some help with a comment I got again. I posted about how I was excited for Animal Crossing: New Leaf to come out tomorrow.



Specifically, the part I'm having trouble with is this.


"I suppose your talking about a game"

But I would wait for someone more advance in Japanese, just in case. =)
 
doing some rosetta stone tonight (i don't use it alone, so nobody freak out) and came across this:

女の子は家からの遠くにいます。

i understand the sentence, but what confuses me is 遠く. i know 遠い and 近い can take く when placed in front of a noun (i.e. - 遠くの大学) but why does it here?
 

Gacha-pin

Member
doing some rosetta stone tonight (i don't use it alone, so nobody freak out) and came across this:

女の子は家からの遠くにいます。

i understand the sentence, but what confuses me is 遠く. i know 遠い and 近い can take く when placed in front of a noun (i.e. - 遠くの大学) but why does it here?

You want to write 「女の子は家からの遠くにいます。」 not 「女の子は家から'の'遠くにいます。」, right? even without 'の', the sentence is kind of awkward though.

Anyway, can you get 「女の子は家から遠いところにいます。」? 「遠いところ」 is a noun (precisely, adjective (遠い) + noun (ところ)). In the sentence you posted, 「遠く」 is used as a noun like 「遠いところ」 in my sentence.

女の子は学校にいる。 (学校 is a noun.)
女の子は遠くにいる。 (遠く is a noun.)
 

alekth

Member
doing some rosetta stone tonight (i don't use it alone, so nobody freak out) and came across this:

女の子は家からの遠くにいます。

i understand the sentence, but what confuses me is 遠く. i know 遠い and 近い can take く when placed in front of a noun (i.e. - 遠くの大学) but why does it here?

It's how the adverbial for i-adjectives is formed. In this case simply meaning "far from home". (And yeah, the の doesn't seem to have a place there.)

edit: The Japanese adverbial does seem to be more versatile, I suspect the origins of this being that a lot of the supporting sentence is stripped. But it absolutely doesn't need to stick before a noun, before a verb is the usual place, e.g. 速く走る etc. The na-adj form is minus the ~na, plus a ~ni, e.g. 静かに
 
My textbooks arrived Monday. Got Genki I (text and workbook) and Japanese For Everyone. Working through them slowly, while using my finger or some scrap paper to cover the romaji. I feel like a kid again, slowly reading through sentences and still making mistakes, but this is, surprisingly, a lot of fun.
 

Adamm

Member
My textbooks arrived Monday. Got Genki I (text and workbook) and Japanese For Everyone. Working through them slowly, while using my finger or some scrap paper to cover the romaji. I feel like a kid again, slowly reading through sentences and still making mistakes, but this is, surprisingly, a lot of fun.

Good to hear its going well!
I think the Romaji goes on for a few too many chapters in Genki, especially if you learned the Hiragana before starting.
I also wish they would force some Kanji on you a bit earlier (ie no hiragana), but apart from that i cant fault it.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
Looks like I need some help again. I was doing well with the other comments, but I'm stuck on this one. Right before this comment, I said that frogs are beautiful.

日本語ではカエルとも表現するし、カワズとも表現するよ^^
 
私は7月に富士山 で 登ります got corrected to 私は7月に富士山 に 登ります。

i think I understand why, is it because of using 登ります as the verb here? because it's more of a "traveling" verb?
 
Looks like I need some help again. I was doing well with the other comments, but I'm stuck on this one. Right before this comment, I said that frogs are beautiful.
日本語ではカエルとも表現するし、カワズとも表現するよ^^
"In Japanese there's the expression "Kaeru" (frog), but it's also expressed as "Kawazu"(frog)".

私は7月に富士山 で 登ります got corrected to 私は7月に富士山 に 登ります。

i think I understand why, is it because of using 登ります as the verb here? because it's more of a "traveling" verb?

If you're travelling to a place you need to use に. で is more for doing an action at a place. In this case it is more of a "travelling" verb yes (に almost always goes with 登ります, otherwise it's を or まで)。
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
I used Japanese in real time with someone for the first time today and failed miserably. I played the new Animal Crossing with a Japanese person. The messages come up for probably about 5 seconds so I couldn't read them quickly enough. And to make it even worse, a Japanese keyboard isn't provided in the US version of the game so I was writing in romaji. I made a fool of myself. I think all I really said was hello, my Japanese is poor, thanks, goodbye. Haha.

And some people practice Japanese by Skyping with people? That gives me nightmares.
 

hongcha

Member
I used Japanese in real time with someone for the first time today and failed miserably. I played the new Animal Crossing with a Japanese person. The messages come up for probably about 5 seconds so I couldn't read them quickly enough. And to make it even worse, a Japanese keyboard isn't provided in the US version of the game so I was writing in romaji. I made a fool of myself. I think all I really said was hello, my Japanese is poor, thanks, goodbye. Haha.

Don't let it get you down. Getting comfortable speaking (or texting) Japanese with Japanese people takes a LONG time. In the process you will make mistakes, you will make a fool of yourself (many times) - that's just how it is. Just brush it off and move on. Each new encounter is a chance to improve in some way.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
Don't let it get you down. Getting comfortable speaking (or texting) Japanese with Japanese people takes a LONG time. In the process you will make mistakes, you will make a fool of yourself (many times) - that's just how it is. Just brush it off and move on. Each new encounter is a chance to improve in some way.

Yep, that's pretty much my attitude. It's hard to not feel like a moron immediately afterward though. But I'll keep trying as I get better and keep what you said in mind!

EDIT: Looks like the girl I played with sent me a note on my 3DS. I think she may have sent it to other people too though. Maybe someone could help me out with it. It's handwritten and all kana.

あしたインコをかうことに

なりましたなのでしばらく (I think that is ら, kind of hard to tell.)

3DSはできないかもです

でもフレンドコードはけさないで!

I think it says she is buying a parrot tomorrow, and she has wanted to for a while. Also something about her 3DS, and that my friend code won't be deleted. Not sure what the parrot has to do with my friend code though, haha.
 

hongcha

Member
EDIT: Looks like the girl I played with sent me a note on my 3DS. I think she may have sent it to other people too though. Maybe someone could help me out with it. It's handwritten and all kana.

あしたインコをかうことに

なりましたなのでしばらく (I think that is ら, kind of hard to tell.)

3DSはできないかもです

でもフレンドコードはけさないで!

I think it says she is buying a parrot tomorrow, and she has wanted to for a while. Also something about her 3DS, and that my friend code won't be deleted. Not sure what the parrot has to do with my friend code though, haha.

Pretty close. She says "I'm buying a parrot tomorrow so I probably won't be able to use my 3DS for awhile, but don't delete my friend code!"
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
Pretty close. She says "I'm buying a parrot tomorrow so I probably won't be able to use my 3DS for awhile, but don't delete my friend code!"

Ah, okay, that makes more sense. I bet she just sent it to everyone on her friends list then. Thanks for the help!
 

Crayons

Banned
I got a 98 on my Japanese regents! It's a NY state test for those of you who don't know. I was quite surprised at my grade, but now I feel more confident for AP Japanese, which I am starting in the fall.
 
Such a great thread. I want to master this language so badly. Learning how to read kanji seems so daunting to me, though. I feel like my brain would explode storing all that info.
 

ittoryu

Member
My real problem with this awesome language is not with grammar, but with vocabulary. Not talking about Kanjii specifically, but rather remembering the actual words and their meaning.
Do you guys have any specific way and/or trick to remember words?
Or do you just keep repeating them (from a list, such as the vocabulary at the end/beginning of a lesson from a grammar book) until they enter in your head?

Any suggestion would be very appreciated!
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
My real problem with this awesome language is not with grammar, but with vocabulary. Not talking about Kanjii specifically, but rather remembering the actual words and their meaning.
Do you guys have any specific way and/or trick to remember words?
Or do you just keep repeating them (from a list, such as the vocabulary at the end/beginning of a lesson from a grammar book) until they enter in your head?

Any suggestion would be very appreciated!

Do you read, watch, use, consume anything on a daily basis in natural Japanese? When you do, this won't be an issue.
 
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