SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Yes, this has been #1 on my christmas list for a while.SuperAndroid17 said:
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The Dark Knight SPOILER THREAD
- Thread starter Costanza
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SuperAndroid17 said:
Listening to the samples, I may not actually buy this. The regular tracks sound like extended material from the regular soundtrack, and to be honest after watching TDK a couple more times I don't find any particular theme that is missing from the original score release.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Comes with a 40 page art book too.Penguin said:
BeautifulMemory
Member
My bad if this has been discussed before.
Since Harvey is dead, isn't Batman the one who killed him, even inadvertently?
So Batman did break his one rule that night, like Joker said?
If so, seems like a good comparison to the end of Batman Begins, where even the whole "...but I don't have to save you" can be argued as negligence.
Since Harvey is dead, isn't Batman the one who killed him, even inadvertently?
So Batman did break his one rule that night, like Joker said?
If so, seems like a good comparison to the end of Batman Begins, where even the whole "...but I don't have to save you" can be argued as negligence.
Solo said:
You haven't seen that in a long time have you?
The arrangement of the two themes used in that scene is really not that different. The first part is actually in the begginning of "A Dark Knight", the rest is the usual Zimmer Batman theme.Of course if you really want this particular edit of the two themes(which really it's just one playing after the other) you'll have to get this new album.
Buckethead
Banned
BeautifulMemory said:
What?! The Dark Knight isn't perfect?! lololo
But I guess the rational is that Batman killed Harvey to protect the innocent, nearly getting killed in the process. It was that pesky conveniently placed ledge that is to blame.
Buckethead
Banned
jett said:
No he didn't.
That would have defeated the entire concept of the movie. If people saw the monster that the Joker created in Harvey, then he would have won by unravelling their hard work.
But then Batman takes all the heat thus becoming "the hero that Gotham deserves" and all that. Gordon's comments were cynical and frustrated, however Batman cleans up all the mess by looking like the bad guy. "They'll hunt him....because he can take it".
>> The Joker tries to prove to Batman that the people aren't worth saving. The people then make the hard decision that the Joker said they would never make: Thus Joker doesn't win.
>> Then Mr. J tries to get Batman to crack and kill someone out of malice, etc and convince him "the only way to live is without rules", Batman sticks to the code.: Again, Joker doesn't win.
The Joker claims "I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve". The entire movie he preaches his misguided philosophy and actually thinks he's justified in it. Then he explains this to Batman in the Interrogation scene and says something like "I'll show you" when he's talking about " These people...they're only as good as the world allows them to be".
Then after the boat/ferry scene, The Joker and his philosophy is defeated. Then he proves that HE IS just a monster. Even his "ace in the hole", Harvey, ends up not serving the purpose that The Joker wanted him to.
Batman is incorruptible yet he takes the blame for Two Face's murders. Thus the end message is: "heroes make hard choices, take the heat, even if they don't deserve it".
I mean I guess you could make the argument that The Joker won but it seems like it undermines the entire concept of the movie. I think he may have had *temporary* results, but Batman stayed true. He's permanent, firm, incorruptible.
Discuss.
Grimm Fandango
Member
Ugh I know the Blu-ray will have features missing for a double dip later but I need it now.
Ken Masters
Banned
Grimm Fandango said:
It's 100% going to happen, there is not even audio commentary on this version, that just screams super delux 3 disc version coming 09 or 10
I am also worried about this but I like the movie too much to wait that long to own it
Ninja Scooter
Member
Ken Masters said:
hasn't happened for Begins so i wouldn't be too sure.
Grimm Fandango
Member
At least there is a digital copy. Is PSP supported yet?
Ken Masters
Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
If this movie gets nominated for best picture then it's guaranteed another release, plus Warner Bros. will milk this baby for all its worth
Ninja Scooter
Member
Ken Masters said:
sure but that doesn't mean Nolan or the cast are going to contribute anything meaningful to these re-releases like commentaries or deleted scenes.
Grimm Fandango
Member
Ninja Scooter said:
I find that sad. The movie deserves it and it's insulting to the fans if the crew doesn't feel obligated to do it.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
I can't wait for the mega-sex NolanBat trilogy set, it will be glorious.
Actually, I can wait. Like, 6-9 years. :[
Actually, I can wait. Like, 6-9 years. :[
Buckethead said:
..everlasting. =P
Ok good post, but if you're going to argue whether or not Batman broke his rule, I think you should argue it from the point that Harvey's death was accidental. Let's face it, Batman didn't rip his head off, shoot him in the face, stab him with razor blades... he tackled him, and in turn accidentally killed him while trying to save Gordon's kid. Seriously, Batman gets the job done but he's a little reckless too. He stabbed the Joker in the face with his arm blades (He could have died) He through him off a high rise construction building (He could have missed when he tried to save him) ect. Harvey's Death was totally unintentional. So did Batman break his one rule? I dunno, what was his one rule anyways? I don't kill (intentionally?) or I don't kill (directly, or indirectly, accidental or not) in the process of being the Goddamn Batman. I mean he fucking crushed those people in the truck when he was in that underpass chasing the Joker and jumping in front of flying RPG missiles. He could have broken Scarecrow's neck landing on his van, or shot stray pedestrians when he was blowing up fucking cars everywhere on his batpod, who knows. So if Batman's one rule is not to ever kill directly and intentionally, then I don't think he broke his rule. If his rule is to NOT kill ever, accident or not, recklessness or not... then he broke his rule killing Harvey, and thus learned the truth (like the Joker said he would) which is.... _______________________ (<--- Draw your own conclusion).
Ninja Scooter
Member
anybody know what kind of store specific extras are being offered with the DVD release? I hear FYE is offering a steelbook again.
The Blue Jihad
Member
Buckethead said:No he didn't.
That would have defeated the entire concept of the movie. If people saw the monster that the Joker created in Harvey, then he would have won by unravelling their hard work.
But then Batman takes all the heat thus becoming "the hero that Gotham deserves" and all that. Gordon's comments were cynical and frustrated, however Batman cleans up all the mess by looking like the bad guy. "They'll hunt him....because he can take it".
>> The Joker tries to prove to Batman that the people aren't worth saving. The people then make the hard decision that the Joker said they would never make: Thus Joker doesn't win.
>> Then Mr. J tries to get Batman to crack and kill someone out of malice, etc and convince him "the only way to live is without rules", Batman sticks to the code.: Again, Joker doesn't win.
The Joker claims "I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve". The entire movie he preaches his misguided philosophy and actually thinks he's justified in it. Then he explains this to Batman in the Interrogation scene and says something like "I'll show you" when he's talking about " These people...they're only as good as the world allows them to be".
Then after the boat/ferry scene, The Joker and his philosophy is defeated. Then he proves that HE IS just a monster. Even his "ace in the hole", Harvey, ends up not serving the purpose that The Joker wanted him to.
Batman is incorruptible yet he takes the blame for Two Face's murders. Thus the end message is: "heroes make hard choices, take the heat, even if they don't deserve it".
I mean I guess you could make the argument that The Joker won but it seems like it undermines the entire concept of the movie. I think he may have had *temporary* results, but Batman stayed true. He's permanent, firm, incorruptible.
Discuss.
Joker won in both of those instances. Both the ferry and Dent.
Even if the people on the ferry didn't blow each other up, all of them still saw the darkness within themselves. They're now aware of it. They no longer can just ignore it, or pretend it isn't there or whatever rationalizations the ignorant masses use these days. Joker got in their heads. That's all that matters. The boat blowing up would have been the icing on the cake.
Regarding Dent, the man still went ballistic. Joker still got inside his head. That's all that matters.
Both times, Joker won. He forced everyone to play by his own rules. Play his own game. Hell, he even forced Batman to play, with his "You're going to have to choose" in the interrogation room.
Make no mistake. Joker totally won.
Also, I don't believe that Batman remaining stoic is relevant. Over the course of the movie, Joker didn't want Batman to change, because Batman was just too much fun the way he was. ;-)
Plus, testament to Joker's brilliance...and I find this very fucking awesome...in Batman Begins, remember Bruce's flight back? How as a man, he can be destroyed, but as a symbol, he is virtually untouchable?
Man, Joker destroyed Batman's symbolic stature to Gotham. Right down to Gordon having to take an axe to the Bat-signal. Throughout TDK, people wanted Batman to turn himself in. Dent was taking lots of heat in the press conference. Joker turned Gotham AGAINST Batman.
That's a pretty huge Joker win in my book.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
You just went balls deep.The Blue Jihad said:
Frank the Great
Banned
Also, at the beginning of the film Gotham was feeling very optimistic about its chances fighting crime with its new hero, Dent, and Batman. The look of Gotham was much brighter and cleaner than it ever was in BB. By the end of the filim, Gotham was back to its old gritty self, and the city was in chaos and exodus.
Joker's goal was to take a giant shit on everyone's hopes that they could restore order to the city, and through the imagery of Gotham and the chaos of the Gotham residents, it is clear that Joker won.
Joker's goal was to take a giant shit on everyone's hopes that they could restore order to the city, and through the imagery of Gotham and the chaos of the Gotham residents, it is clear that Joker won.
The Blue Jihad said:
This, exellent post. The people on the ferry didn't blow each other up, not because they didn't want to or out of some misguided sypmpathy to not kill. We saw how the vote went, most chose yes. The Joker was a 100% right, they were all cowards, even those that voted no, didn't try to stop the yes-voters from pushing the button, nobody spoke up. The bald guy came close to doing it, but even he was a coward, they want to get out of the situation but they don't want the guilt to be on them, even if all had voted yes.
The only thing Joker hadn't counted on was fear holding everybody back, but his point was made, even if Batman never uncovers the truth about what really happend on the ferries, those people will always remember the monster inside of them, especially those so called civilized people that were debating/making excuses on the value of a humanlife.
bathhouseterror
Banned
The Blue Jihad said:
The ferry incident, as you say, does give the Joker a victory for those who experienced it ("the darkness within themselves"). But, as for the rest of Gotham, that the people on board the ferries didn't kill each other, that example speaks volumes. The Joker may be right about people, for now, but the rest of Gotham doesn't have to know that--just like Gotham doesn't have to know Dent's true fate.
Therefore, there is hope for Gotham, and that's all Batman could ask for. I call that a wash.
The Blue Jihad
Member
bathhouseterror said:
Granted, the ferries were isolated in that regard. However, that absolutely doesn't exonerate the rest of Gotham. I point to Joker's on-air phonecall, where he threatens to blow up a hospital if Mr. Reese isn't dead within the hour. There was quite a bit of insanity there, as I recall. Including shots taken, cars rammed, angry mobs, etc.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
bathhouseterror said:
In the end Batman didn't break at all, he just took up the burden even further. All that effort and Joker didn't gain anymore traction on Batman, it just became nullified because Batman still did the selfless act of allowing people to see him vilified for the sake of others. Hurting people is a lot easier than saving people, but in the end Batman still stopped Joker.
Gordan's speach is all that really needs to be said on that matter.
Nah. Don't get me wrong, TDk is full of metaphors and themes, but they're presented to us in a fairly straight forward manner. I think some of you guys are kind of overdoing it now, "OMG DID U NOTICE HOW AT THE BEGINNING EVERYTHING WAS OPTIMISTIC AND THEN AT THE END IT WAS ALL PESIMISTIC? WOW THATS DEEP" its like, no shit thats point was pretty forced at the end of the film.joshuagor44 said:
thats why the third movie will be so awesome...if it picks up on these themes and expands on batman himself.
dark knight was more about the city and on a wide scale all the characters the introduction of batman affected.
the third hopefully will be more like begins and back to how bruce/batman are dealing with the madness within.
dark knight was more about the city and on a wide scale all the characters the introduction of batman affected.
the third hopefully will be more like begins and back to how bruce/batman are dealing with the madness within.
CajoleJuice
Member
I think you have to give it up to GAF's fanaticism.joshuagor44 said:
The Blue Jihad said:
Good argument. I don't think the Joker won with the Ferries though. The Joker is as much a terrorist as he is a sadistic masochist, and social psychological commentator. He was ready to blow up those two ferries right after he learned they couldn't do it themselves. His point was to ultimately prove that when pressed...those people were just as dark and ugly as he was, and that before the clock ran down one (or both of them) would be gone. He still wanted to kill those people if it didn't happen. In the end he wasn't able to prove that they had it in them to kill one another. Batman's message won there when he said they city showed him it was full of good people - even if there was those on the boats who voted yes.
The Joker definitely got into Dent's head, he wanted to corrupt him and he did...he brought him down. Ultimately though I think he probably planned on killing him, the corruption and psychological attacks were most likely brought on after he learned of his disfigurement. It was win - win for the Joker though. He would still get to kill one of them - however, Harvey wasn't exposed to the public. Dent was a figure of justice and hope to Gotham. Instead of Gotham seeing the monster and criminal that Dent had become (This was most likely a huge motivator for Joker to corrupt Dent), Batman and Gordon used him as a martyr. The city still had their symbol of hope even if he had died.
Batman traded his symbol, for Dent's.
Awesome. Yes. The Joker totally destroyed Batman's symbol to the people, but I don't think it was directly, and in turn Batman made a willing decision to trade his symbol in so the people would have their hero. He wasn't forced too, it was a decision he made to further show how viable he really is (and invaluable). I don't see why we - or anyone else - needs to debate over who won in the end. Neither the Joker nor Batman won, they both won some, and lost some. The Joker destroyed Batman's symbol, and Batman resurrected Harvey's. They traded blows, jabs, career setbacks (lol) in the end like they always do, and they'll come out to tumble and battle with each other again....like they always do.The Blue Jihad said:
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
The joker wasn't trying to win anything. His goal was to fuck shit up, and if he didn't, he'd just try again another day. That's Joker, baby.
Ken Masters
Banned
what's the main difference between the BR and BR special edition besides the toy?
Ken Masters
Banned
Penguin said:
that's what I'm asking, is the "special" version just one with a toy?
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