Freezie KO
Banned
It's their fault insofar as they've had to apologize for so many things, "Please understand" became a shorthand joke for their incompetence.
The Death Of Nintendo Has Been Greatly Under-Exaggerated
- Thread starter Tripon
- Start date
It's their fault insofar as they've had to apologize for so many things, "Please understand" became a shorthand joke for their incompetence.
minor effort
Banned
Game delays happen to almost everyone.
To me, the "please understand" usually sounds like Nintendo trying - unsuccessfully - to explain why they can't do something their competition has little problem doing, like creating an account system for digital purchases. Other console makers moving away from region locking, Nintendo doubling-down on it. No, they don't say that phrase everytime, but it's become shorthand to describe their explanations or excuses.
To say Nintendo has struggled to keep pace with the online aspect of gaming is an understatement. That's what's getting increasingly difficult to defend.
Yup. I went to an amusement park over the weekend and this eight-year-old kid was telling me about his DS collection. I asked him if he has a 3DS and he said his mom didn't buy him one because she heard that the screen makes kids go blind. I told him about the 2DS and how his mom has no excuse now!
BTW, I think this reverse 3DS to 2DS approach is brilliant and I can't think of a better way to promote 3D adoption while keeping it optional.
Of course that's true, but to those with an agenda against Nintendo they can point to a revision in the 3DS family without 3D as making the whole enterprise as a failure.
It makes no sense, but if you do enough mental gymnastics you can somewhat see their logic.
WordAssassin
Member
I wonder if Nintendo could get away with remarketing the Wii U with a different name and maybe console shell? Like those that already have the Wii U, they're in on it. It's the exact same console but with a different name and case. But the general public thinks its a new thing? They could market it like "Plays all Wii, Wii U, and Ultra Nintendo games!" and Wii U owners would just keep what they have because they're smart enough to figure out the difference but to everyone else it would look like Nintendo made a new console. The only reason a Wii U owner would ever buy an Ulta Nintendo would be because they want a different looking console on their shelf.
Would something like that even work? Has it ever been attempted before? Is this what everyone was hoping would happen (the name at least) before the system launched/around E3?
Would something like that even work? Has it ever been attempted before? Is this what everyone was hoping would happen (the name at least) before the system launched/around E3?
That is extremely risky and would probably take more marketing ingenuity than Nintendo has at the moment.
A rebrand with a new name would accomplish the same. Just call it the Nintendo U, even.
WordAssassin
Member
I was thinking that but because the console looks almost exactly the same as the Wii, most of the confusion (name aside) is because everyone just thought the controller was a new add-on to the Wii.
If they made the Wii U look like a tiny N64 with a top-loading tray for example and changed the name to Nintendo U, people would at least figure out it's a new system. They'd rebrand the game boxes but since the internals are a Wii U any NU games would play on a Wii U and vice-versa.
But you're right about Nintendo not having the marketing brainpower to pull off such a thing. :\
Entryhazard
Banned
As of now Iwata said "please understand" only about the delay and lack of games, not features
ab.aeterno
Member
Not the whole enterprise, just the feature. It raised manufacturing costs and created buzz that prompted Nintendo to raise the cost in anticipation of buzz materializing into strong sales, which never happened.
I think the market has shown, and the 2DS capitalizes on and arguably reinforces the idea, that it wanted a successor to the DS at a reasonable price. Making the 3D optional meant nothing could be built specifically around the idea since it could be turned off, so ultimately little ever came out that put it to use and make it worthwhile from a value perspective. It was a novelty that the market rejected.
A lower price and strong games has turned around its previously dire fortunes; the 3D arguably never entered the picture in making the device desirable to the general market, or else it would have sold better initially.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
yea. but software sales right now for Wii U are even worse than previous Nintendo consoles, and as you know, budgets are higher than before. So, not a good balance.
DisenLedZep
Member
Wait, I can get the "WiiU is a failure" thing because it's not in a good spot right now.
But calling the 3DS a failure... I mean... come on.
But calling the 3DS a failure... I mean... come on.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
It's not like I can say your wrong, because to some extent you're right in general times, but it really isn't, in most cases, some kind of bias. These people, believe it or know, largely know what they are doing. It's all about return on their investments. They do market research in advance to measure trends and purchase intent, look at the market to see what genres and titles are selling, and allocate an appropriate about of team size and technology behind a project. Things weren't looking good for Wii U investment Day 1 because how poorly Wii was doing it's last few years. Launch titles were mostly based on sales performance then, with a few exceptions, such as Zombi U, where Ubisoft was making a 'long term investment' on the platform and building the technology to do that. Same thing with updating UbiArt for Rayman Legends. To date, it has not paid off.
A lot of people made a lot of money on Wii.
And then when the market started compacting, the technology gap presented people with a choice and ultimatly most just started investing higher-end, not knowing where specs would net out, to get prepared for this new gen because the last one went so damn long. What should have ahppend then, was Nintendo taking a year or two in advance to get people to understand why their tech was just as cool and just as valid and important to the gaming experience. They kind of failed to do this, so the hardware itself doesn't intrinsicaly inspire people to pick it up. They are only doing it for *specific* pieces of software. As we've seen, it's really only been NSMBU to date. So that's your audience. 1MM units of hardware, 800k Mario's, 150k high end for anything else (most much lower).
So, they double down on an IP strategy. Pump out lots of guaranteed sellers so they can make up a loss on hardware, get their individual software projects profitable, and hope the 'hands on experience' gets people to understand the value of the gamepad and that way of play to the point they start to prefer to play other games on it as well.
When you fail to hit sales targets two years in a row, what should we call it?
Lordwindowlicker
Member
It really depends on multiple things. But, the sales of the 3DS are far too strong for anyone to call the system a failure.
If you still choose to do so you are either..
A: Crazy
B: Stupid
C: Disingenuous
D: Some combination of the three.
Great points ruined by the typical nitnendo is doomed thinking.
The fact they can get away with what they are doing still earn profit is the sad part about where nintendo is these days. Yes plenty of other companies recycle shit after shit but not many other companies have been where nitnendo has been as a company.
Nintendo gave up on smart tech for a power war that isn't really a concern anymore. Software wise people are partially right they gave up a lot of creativity and ingenuity for being just another big publisher hashing everything we've already done in to a new shiny coat of paint. Sucks that nintendo doesn't really understand that ploy only works if the paint job doesn't look like shit afterwards.
The fact they can get away with what they are doing still earn profit is the sad part about where nintendo is these days. Yes plenty of other companies recycle shit after shit but not many other companies have been where nitnendo has been as a company.
Nintendo gave up on smart tech for a power war that isn't really a concern anymore. Software wise people are partially right they gave up a lot of creativity and ingenuity for being just another big publisher hashing everything we've already done in to a new shiny coat of paint. Sucks that nintendo doesn't really understand that ploy only works if the paint job doesn't look like shit afterwards.
To the idiots saying they want MS and Nintendo to go third party... please go away.
Competition is the sole reason PS4 is giving you fanboys all you want. If it werent for MS's fuck ups, Sony could easily be forcing us down the same DRM path.
Again, you WANT the competition. Otherwise, we all lose.
Competition is the sole reason PS4 is giving you fanboys all you want. If it werent for MS's fuck ups, Sony could easily be forcing us down the same DRM path.
Again, you WANT the competition. Otherwise, we all lose.
majorscud
Member
3DS is a success just fine and 2DS will do some big numbers. If WiiU was $250 at launch and had a WiiU Sports-like launch game it would have been flying off of shelves.
Nintendo needs to think really hard the next time they want to release a console without a game that is both a ton of fun and show why the system is necessary.
Nintendo needs to think really hard the next time they want to release a console without a game that is both a ton of fun and show why the system is necessary.
DisenLedZep
Member
It's a matter of "software sells hardware" thingy.
The 3DS had a rought time at the beginning due to that point, it didn't have games. But, after a few key releases, the system rushed to success. So, I don't get your point really.
I don't even see the Vita as a failure, but just a misstep, and I'm sure it will relocate itselft just as the 3DS did. (Now with the release of the 2DS I see that more difficult though).
In fact, a lot of people, myself included, think that the WiiU will also regain a boost in sales after a few key releases. So yeah, I'm bored of this kind of articles.
ab.aeterno
Member
If you define failure to be abject and absolute, sure. If it's "fails to meet expectations," then that's hard to argue against, as it has missed every forecast set for it since launch, IIRC.
I don't think the 3DS was a failure in absolute terms, or even necessarily as a follow-up to the DS, even if it has been a big sales disappointment. But there's no denying that Nintendo consistently expects it to do better than it is, and it consistently fails to preform well enough to meet those expectations. What that is called is a matter of debate.
Nintendo making inflated predictions for investors.
They would be ecstatic for the 3DS to only be behind their most successful product in the company's history by 20%
A dumb guy on the internet?
The 3DS is doing very well. Just because it's not selling the same amount the DS sold does not make it a failure. By that logic the PS3 is a complete disaster because it has sold about half as many units as the PS2.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
You mean Nintendo is not already DEAD??? Liessss 
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I don't think it's been done to the extent of your example but,...PSOne? I'm talking about the small version w/ the LED screen. It's technically a different name, and a different case, but otherwise the same as the PlayStation.
They still haven't released 2 of their most successful franchises. Mario Kart and Smash Bros where Mario Kart is the best selling game of this past generation and Smash Bros which also sold over 10 million.
Saying that Nintendo is dead before releasing those games is incredibly premature, then again doom and gloom over Nintendo seems to be whats popular these days.
I do think Wii U is in a terrible position for this year, but 2014 is their chance to remedy their problems so far. If they can't make 2014 successful then we can start panicking.
Saying that Nintendo is dead before releasing those games is incredibly premature, then again doom and gloom over Nintendo seems to be whats popular these days.
I do think Wii U is in a terrible position for this year, but 2014 is their chance to remedy their problems so far. If they can't make 2014 successful then we can start panicking.
Yeah it's really simple. Nintendo "failed" to meet expectations for fiscal year 2011 and 2012. Iwata came out and apologized for 3DS sales. It's all public record - look it up.
This is a very frustrating thread.
Edit: ab.aeterno I am agreeing with you.
Mario games. Also Nintendo will recur a lot of it's losses whenever Pokemon X & Y is released.
H_Prestige
Banned
It launched with NSMB...
If people aren't lining up in droves for that, they won't for Kart or Smash either.
ab.aeterno
Member
That's not what they're taking about, at all. They're discussing it failing to meet Nintendo's sales forecasts, not whether or not is doing better/worse then it's predecessor.
So, the question is why are they forecasting higher than they should? And why aren't they meeting their forecasts? When you establish a pattern of setting high expectations and falling short of them, it calls into question your ability to read the market or your ability to sell your product. Either is not a good look.
Yes, I know Nintendo failed to meet expectations. I said that in my post. The point is "why?" Your CEO shouldn't have to keep apologizing for failing to meet expectations.
This is frustrating, you're right; you've restated the already said and obvious and aren't digging deeper into why, and are hand-waving away discussion on it.
Edit: wait, are we talking past each other? I read back and it seems you're arguing the 3DS failed because it failed to meet expectations; I won't go as far as calling it a categorical failure since the word means different things to different peoplr on here, but we may be in agreement it's a problem. I think?
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
A profitable venture. Not lucratively profitable as the original DS was, but profitable. There's more to sales than meeting expectations. Smart companies set their goals so that meeting expectations isn't the moment it's profitable, but a goal they're like to achieve.
For example, let's say you need to sell 3 million units of hardware to make profit on it in a fiscal year. So you then set your expectation to 5 million, so that if it doesn't quite meet expectations it could still be considered a profitable venture so long as you hit 3 million. The problem with setting expectations too low is twofold; it inspires less confidence with your investors, and if you somehow sell a gajillion more units than you expected, it raises the bar way to high and too fast. If you set an expectation of 5 million units and sell 6 million units, you somewhat exceeded expectations and investors are happy. If you set the expectation of 3 million units and then sell 6 million units, investors are going to insist you raise your expectations to 6 million units the following year. This is a problem because then if it dips to 4 million units, it looks like a bigger loss than going from 5 to 4.
As an example of how not to do this, Square set Tomb Raider's expectation at the point of profitability, and funded the project based on the idea that it must hit the minimum to be a success. Because of this, it failed and was not profitable. If they had set the expectation at a level but could be profitable at a lower performance, it would have made money and been a success. See also Capcom and Resident Evil 6.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Think that about covers it.
Haha, too good.
Apes in Futurama time sounds about right.
I love your avatar xD
Interceptor
Banned
Still alive? Pfff.. get your shit together Nintendo!
Written on a Wii U. lol
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Personally I thought the article sucked major ass, but that aside...
This is a very dubious claim to make; for the cartoonish aesthetic they aim for, I think Nintendo's games generally look amazing. Nice clean visuals with lots of saturated colors and smart, abstract designs. It helps balance things out from the busy detailed, realism-fixated desaturated earth palettes of other games from the AAA studios. The industry needs that sort of balance.
People aren't going to buy a Wii U for one Mario game especially since Nintendo's marketing was less than stellar.
People aren't going to line up in droves for Mario Kart or Smash (or well Smash might but that's hardcore games), but they will increase the monthly sales of the console by a lot.
CadetMahoney
Member
the outlook doesn't look good for them.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
New Super Mario Bros. was their biggest franchise last gen core-game wise; the Wii version sold more than Kart, Bros, and the Galaxy games combined. And NSMBWu hasn't had anywhere near that success.
Kart and Smash will sell some Wii U's but mostly to an existing base already, some who are waiting for exactly those games before buying a Wii U. They won't help Nintendo with the casual market
Apophis2036
Banned
Sorry for the late reply.
I can't see WiiU recovering to even Gamecube level numbers tbh, the only way it had a chance of doing more than N64 numbers was if this November's 3D Mario was a really graphically impressive 64/Galaxy like affair along with MK8 arriving in December while they had price cut the Deluxe to $249 and they had thrown the largest marketing campaign in the history of gaming at it.
Stranger things have happened though, people would be wise not to underestimate what a Zelda bundle, a price cut, some marketing and a new Mario / Donkey Kong combo can do.
I think Nintendo will pick up a lot of disappointed PS4 / XBOX ONE customers this Winter aswell. People have money for a new system and if they can't get either one of those then WiiU might suddenly look attractive to scratch that new console itch.
I don't think I have ever seen a topic discussed so much on GAF as much as I have WiiU sales, I think the future of the system will become clear by Summer 2014 when we have seen this Winters games released, some marketing, the price cut effect and the MK8 effect next Spring.
As they showed with 3DS, if there is one company that can turn a dead system into a near 40 million seller, it's Nintendo.
Same thread, different day ....
As an owner of every Nintendo system since the NES, I will say they are more vulnerable now than they've ever been though. They've lost the hardcore and older gamer market, for the most part. Their casual and youth market is shifting more and more to the mobile space. Creating those lifelong nostalgic fans is getting harder. They could get a do-over on a new console and I don't think it would help much, and THAT should scare them more than anything. Who exactly is their target audience?
Even if they sunk exponentially lower over the next several years, they have too much history and unmatched catalog to ever belly up. A $99 virtual console machine (perhaps portable too) with reasonably priced games would always be a massive moneymaker, especially if they continued to release sequels to classic games that are cheap to develop. I think there is too much money there to ever go mobile.
As an owner of every Nintendo system since the NES, I will say they are more vulnerable now than they've ever been though. They've lost the hardcore and older gamer market, for the most part. Their casual and youth market is shifting more and more to the mobile space. Creating those lifelong nostalgic fans is getting harder. They could get a do-over on a new console and I don't think it would help much, and THAT should scare them more than anything. Who exactly is their target audience?
Even if they sunk exponentially lower over the next several years, they have too much history and unmatched catalog to ever belly up. A $99 virtual console machine (perhaps portable too) with reasonably priced games would always be a massive moneymaker, especially if they continued to release sequels to classic games that are cheap to develop. I think there is too much money there to ever go mobile.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
NMSBWii was also included in a bundle along with the console., which the other games were not.
IrishNinja
Member
this is a particularly terrible article about nintendo's woes, and the inflammatory title is only one part of that...i mean, i can't really keep reading beyond:
yes, have bernie stolar go on stage at e3 and saturn your system/brand, excellent thinking right there. the quoted bits about 2DS being an "admission" show that my time not reading the rest of this piece was well-spent.
it's not often i agree with you, but this here feels spot-on. i like the pricepoint but if they want to eat back into the smartphone market (and by not dumping their stuff on mobile, they clearly do) software prices have to come down fast.
yes, have bernie stolar go on stage at e3 and saturn your system/brand, excellent thinking right there. the quoted bits about 2DS being an "admission" show that my time not reading the rest of this piece was well-spent.
it's not often i agree with you, but this here feels spot-on. i like the pricepoint but if they want to eat back into the smartphone market (and by not dumping their stuff on mobile, they clearly do) software prices have to come down fast.
Mario Kart Wii sold a lot more than NSMBWii.
I'm not convinced about that. The casual market love Mario Kart, it's not something that's going to cause everyone to go out and buy Mario Kart as soon as it launch but it's going to increase the monthly sales quite significantly I think.Kart and Smash will sell some Wii U's but mostly to an existing base already, some who are waiting for exactly those games before buying a Wii U. They won't help Nintendo with the casual market
There was definitely a Mario Kart bundle as well, way more common than the NSMB Wii one as well I'd say at least that's what I'd guess from personal experience.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Mario Kart Wii - 34.26 million
New Super Mario Bros. Wii - 27.88 million
Super Mario Galaxy - 11.72 million
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 11.49 million
Super Mario Galaxy 2 - 6.36 million
Try checking your facts before making such stupid claims.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
DS and 3DS sales were heavily discussed too, particularly in their early struggles.
Remember this?
I full expect the WiiU to get an upswing, stay profitable and do okay - and the usual crowd so dismissive now will revert to the "well of course it was going to sell okay, nintendo always sell to nintendo fanboys, it was never in danger"
Apophis2036
Banned
Someone needs to photo shop Iwata's face on the main characters face and Pachter's face on the monster in the bottom left
.Apophis2036
Banned
I wasn't really into forums back then, were the original DS's sales slow to begin with ?. I thought the DS and Wii both started strongly and continued to get stronger for the first three years.