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The DND Monster Manual 2024 is out... They removed Drow and Orcs from it.

Apparently because orcs and drow are racist. I can't think of any other reason. Two iconic monsters just erased. Instead of having stat blocks, you have to go to an appendix chapter for converting monsters that weren't brought over.

Orcs are now "toughs" (generic NPCs)
Orc Chiefs are now "Tough Boss"
Drow are now Priest Acolytes
Drow Priestess of Lolth are now Fiend cults

Looks like Lizardfolk and Duergar are gone too.
 

sigmaZ

Member
Apparently because orcs and drow are racist. I can't think of any other reason. Two iconic monsters just erased. Instead of having stat blocks, you have to go to an appendix chapter for converting monsters that weren't brought over.

Orcs are now "toughs" (generic NPCs)
Orc Chiefs are now "Tough Boss"
Drow are now Priest Acolytes
Drow Priestess of Lolth are now Fiend cults

Looks like Lizardfolk and Duergar are gone too.
Justin Timberlake What GIF
Come On What GIF by MOODMAN
Shocked Oprah Winfrey GIF
Youre Kidding Are You Serious GIF by Snowfall
Tv Land What GIF by YoungerTV
What The Wtf GIF by MOODMAN
Hawaii Seriously GIF by ION
 

ssringo

Member
Weren't the tabletop players going to swap to a new system (or whatever it'd be called) from another company after the WotC fiasco last year? When they tried to rewrite the player agreement (or something) that had been in effect for a long time? I only vaguely remember the details.
 
Only in modern days companies and people can be fully racists while being completelly open about it. I never in my life saw any connection between orcs and black people, and I came from an entire line of black families.
Lmaoooo I know right. These people just sit around thinking of every single possible thing you could call different races that may have slightest inclination of racism.
 

LordCBH

Member
Weren't the tabletop players going to swap to a new system (or whatever it'd be called) from another company after the WotC fiasco last year? When they tried to rewrite the player agreement (or something) that had been in effect for a long time? I only vaguely remember the details.

A good chunk of people were going to give Pathfinder 2 a try. Don’t know if they ever did. But it’s a really fun system!
 

Digital-Aftertaste

Gold Member
Weren't the tabletop players going to swap to a new system (or whatever it'd be called) from another company after the WotC fiasco last year? When they tried to rewrite the player agreement (or something) that had been in effect for a long time? I only vaguely remember the details.
I can't recall what it was, but it was something nonsensical like any variation players made to the ruleset is their or the campaigns players made.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Side note, my bro bought the first monster manual way back in the 80s. We barely played the game but he’d buy the various players handbook manuals and such just because it was cool to see the stats and pics.

Shambling Mound and Umber Hulk ftw!
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
If orcs or drows are racist are any of these still around because they could be lumped in:

Goblins, hobgoblins, bugbear, kobolds, gnolls, hags, trolls, etc….
 
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Kacho

Gold Member
How is that even possible? This is like Kraft selling "Macaroni and Cheese" without Cheese.
Table top gaming is just another cultural battleground. It's the same thing we're seeing with video games. The industry has been completely overtaken by the extreme left.

These types of changes have been discussed for a while now. There's tons of stuff you can read up on if you're curious.

My friends and I stopped playing when we started having kids, which was before woke stuff went mainstream. If we ever start playing again we'll stick to older editions.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
These people are so brainwashed they’re determined to see racism and racist stereotypes even where they don’t exist. Us normal people never would’ve made this insane connection until these racist shitheads started shrieking about it.

I always wonder what actual black people think about this shit. Like

Normal black person: “Hell yes let’s play some D&D”

SJW: “OMG how can you play this? Just look at orcs, they’re scary violent subhumans with non-white skin… see? They’re obviously supposed to be black people!!!”

Normal black person: “gee, thanks.”
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
This madness was firestarted by the BLM riots in 2020 that pushed anti racism virtue signalling to a systems overload.


Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is strength, for only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome the many challenges a D&D story presents. In that spirit, making D&D as welcoming and inclusive as possible has moved to the forefront of our priorities over the last six years. We’d like to share with you what we’ve been doing, and what we plan to do in the future to address legacy D&D content that does not reflect who we are today. We recognize that doing this isn’t about getting to a place where we can rest on our laurels but continuing to head in the right direction. We feel that being transparent about it is the best way to let our community help us to continue to calibrate our efforts.

One of the explicit design goals of 5th edition D&D is to depict humanity in all its beautiful diversity by depicting characters who represent an array of ethnicities, gender identities, sexual orientations, and beliefs. We want everyone to feel at home around the game table and to see positive reflections of themselves within our products. “Human” in D&D means everyone, not just fantasy versions of northern Europeans, and the D&D community is now more diverse than it’s ever been.

Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. Despite our conscious efforts to the contrary, we have allowed some of those old descriptions to reappear in the game. We recognize that to live our values, we have to do an even better job in handling these issues. If we make mistakes, our priority is to make things right.

Here’s what we’re doing to improve:

  • We present orcs and drow in a new light in two of our most recent books, Eberron: Rising from the Last War and Explorer's Guide to Wildemount. In those books, orcs and drow are just as morally and culturally complex as other peoples. We will continue that approach in future books, portraying all the peoples of D&D in relatable ways and making it clear that they are as free as humans to decide who they are and what they do.

  • When every D&D book is reprinted, we have an opportunity to correct errors that we or the broader D&D community discovered in that book. Each year, we use those opportunities to fix a variety of things, including errors in judgment. In recent reprintings of Tomb of Annihilation and Curse of Strahd, for example, we changed text that was racially insensitive. Those reprints have already been printed and will be available in the months ahead. We will continue this process, reviewing each book as it comes up for a reprint and fixing such errors where they are present.
  • Later this year, we will release a product (not yet announced) that offers a way for a player to customize their character’s origin, including the option to change the ability score increases that come from being an elf, a dwarf, or one of D&D's many other playable folk. This option emphasizes that each person in the game is an individual with capabilities all their own.

  • Curse of Strahd included a people known as the Vistani and featured the Vistani heroine Ezmerelda. Regrettably, their depiction echoes some stereotypes associated with the Romani people in the real world. To rectify that, we’ve not only made changes to Curse of Strahd, but in two upcoming books, we will also show—working with a Romani consultant—the Vistani in a way that doesn’t rely on reductive tropes.

We've received valuable insights from sensitivity readers on two of our recent books. We are incorporating sensitivity readers into our creative process, and we will continue to reach out to experts in various fields to help us identify our blind spots.

We're proactively seeking new, diverse talent to join our staff and our pool of freelance writers and artists. We’ve brought in contributors who reflect the beautiful diversity of the D&D community to work on books coming out in 2021. We're going to invest even more in this approach and add a broad range of new voices to join the chorus of D&D storytelling.

And we will continue to listen to you all. We created 5th edition in conversation with the D&D community. It's a conversation that continues to this day. That's at the heart of our work—listening to the community, learning what brings you joy, and doing everything we can to provide it in every one of our books.

This part of our work will never end. We know that every day someone finds the courage to voice their truth, and we’re here to listen. We are eternally grateful for the ongoing dialog with the D&D community, and we look forward to continuing to improve D&D for generations to come.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
These people are so brainwashed they’re determined to see racism and racist stereotypes even where they don’t exist. Us normal people never would’ve made this insane connection until these racist shitheads started shrieking about it.

I always wonder what actual black people think about this shit. Like

Normal black person: “Hell yes let’s play some D&D”

SJW: “OMG how can you play this? Just look at orcs, they’re scary violent subhumans with non-white skin… see? They’re obviously supposed to be black people!!!”

Normal black person: “gee, thanks.”
Crazy thinking.

I didn’t play DND tabletop a lot as a kid, but like any gamer you grow up playing RPG games on PC and some of them may have orcs as enemies or half-orc character creation.

Name one person who ever correlated orcs with black people when playing the game? Nuts.
 
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kiphalfton

Member
These people are so brainwashed they’re determined to see racism and racist stereotypes even where they don’t exist. Us normal people never would’ve made this insane connection until these racist shitheads started shrieking about it.

I always wonder what actual black people think about this shit. Like

Normal black person: “Hell yes let’s play some D&D”

SJW: “OMG how can you play this? Just look at orcs, they’re scary violent subhumans with non-white skin… see? They’re obviously supposed to be black people!!!”

Normal black person: “gee, thanks.”

Reminds me of "micro aggressions".

Yeah it can be offensive if you are overly sensitive, but what isn't?

Then again, some people apparently need to live their life with the bumpers on / with Styrofoam padding on everything.

It's gotten ridiculous.
 

Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
I always wonder what actual black people think about this shit.
We've learned that sometimes, if you want to participate, it's not even worth engaging. Just shake your head and move on. Both extremes have become too fucking much to deal with.

With this specifically, there's literally nothing stopping anyone from running a game with orcs if they want to. Everything you need is there. You can make an orc of whatever flavour you want and call it that.

The truly sad part is, this is an opportunity to give actual player/DM feedback to WoTC. If there's enough feedback one way or another, chances are they'll adjust.

Unfortunately, nothing in that last sentence will happen because we live in a world where nuance is all but gone and WoTC are a moronic fucking company.

Truly the worst fucking timeline.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
What's DEI about those two fictional toys?

WOTC thinks that black people looks like orcs, so the way to solve racism is to make sure nobody sees or thinks about them again and instead focuses on elves that look oddly Asian now for some reason.

Please do not discuss that fact that they had the whole "hey, don't these orcs look kind of... urban?" thought process in the first place. They're not the racists. They're on the right side of history.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I always wonder what actual black people think about this shit.
Me too.

Not just for racial stuff, but any other political hot topic.

Most of the time it’s some crusading white person(s) leading the charge representing whichever group is being considered the down and out group.

it would never be 100% good or bad. But overall, it’s be curious know in general if the group classified as needing help skew to Thanks For The Help and Caring, or skew more to Get Lost.

You never know. Maybe for a lot of these issues the group supposedly needing a helping hand skew to Get Lost, we don’t need your help.
 

Dr Cowley

Member
Aragorn must be the most racist character in history.

In the first Lotr movie he says at the end “let’s go hunt some orcs”. And then he, Orlando bloom and the dwarf dude go run back into the forest to kill as many black people as possible… I mean orcs.

Whomever makes DND are dumb as rocks. Lol
They made Aragorn black in magic the gathering though.

(Race swapped to) black on black (in our imagination) violence must end
 

Mister Wolf

Member
That's like saying Gwen Stacy is a gender swapped spiderman. This is a different character.

Gwen Stacy isn't Spiderman. Silver Surfer is Norrin Radd the first herald of Galactus. Galactus has had subsequent female heralds. Why didn't they use one of them? Because they want Silver Surfer's popularity. A character that likely predates both of us, that built his fanbase over the decades in comics. Feminist gender swap bullshit. Fuck that.
 
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