The European Century? The European Superpower?

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Evander said:
MY point is that theredo not have the ability to be a global superpower because they do not have a true unified head from which the shifting of their weight can be controlled absolutely.
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Fair enough. My point is that that doesn't matter, and that the ability to exert influence and use force externally is not dependent on absolute internal sovereignty.
 
This was my reply when karakand posted this in the football/soccer thread

This thread has convinced me the EU will never be a legit superpower. That entails being scary and well, there's nothing scary about these folks.
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That's because we want fucking Brussels and Strasbourg to get the fuck out of our lives. We want to work with our neighbors without some idiotic politicians trying to tell us how to live our lives, they may have gotten away with it by shoving the Euro down our throats but they will never be able to get away with the whole European constitution they've been working on, we don't fucking want it and will continue to vote against it until they cut the crap.

who wants to be a super power anyway? We are already responsible for two world wars, fuck that shit
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catfish said:
fuck Unity, Europe is so rad because they never agree on anything and that ensures they don't get all big and cocky.
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this.biggest problem in the eu, sadly, and gets worse with every new member -.-
 
EU can't really be a superpower when the they are running a confederation with the power resting in the states rather then the EU.

If you are thinking "Isn't that just the one of the arguments for the Constitution over the Articles of Confederation?" you would be correct. Either Europe needs a sweeping identity change across the continent, some countries start to unify into a federated sovereign state, or a unifying war. Hell, there was a power struggle about who had ultimate authority, state or federal, in the US until the Civil War.
 
Steppenwolf said:
I feel german first and then european. It's not like the EU is a nation or something. Still each country has its own identity, culture and often language. But it's coming closer together, thats for sure. The EU is often annoying but also has a lot of advantages for its citizens imo.
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same here. i like the rest of europe, and i like how easy it is to get around, but i really think that europe never will be one state. the cultural differences are too big, and if assimilated into each other, it would quickly get boring imho.
 
Proelite said:
http://www.captaineuro.com/

I was looking over the Wikipedia entry over the European Union.

1,669,807 sq mi of land.
497,198,740 population.
$14.712 trillion GDP(PPP) $16.830 trillion (nominal) 1st in the world

It has all the requirements of a superpower: land, resources, and people. With the current decline of the world opinion toward America, the political spectrum have shifted in many ways in favor of the European Union. Thus it also has the beginning of the ideological influence that comes with superpower status. With the coming ecological issue of the 21st century, Europe stand to gain more influence as it is the current leader in introducing many major government preservation programs. It signed the Kyoto treaty of 1997 whereas America didn't, and it's forests are actually expanding in size. Coupled with the economic might of Europe, this eventual political muscle can shape the face of the world community in the decades to come.

For the Gaffers that are currently in Europe, or are European by descent. How do you feel about this? Would you think of yourself as as European first, or French, British, German, etc first? How do you feel about a European Navy that dwarfs the USN? Do you welcome the notion of an European superpower in the 21st century?
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\
There are reasons that Europe is not a super power, for one, for all the US hate it is still the most important country Militarily, economically, etc to most parts of the World. Our influences in South America, Asia, and the Middle East far outstrip what little influences Europe has in those regions. There is also the issue that while the EU on paper is united, in reality it still suffers from idealogical, cultural, and nationalistic divides the US does not.
 
shaft said:
open borders - check
no trade barrier - check
1 currency - check
EU president - coming this year


United Sated of Europe is coming, if you like it or not.
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What the hell is a United Sated? Sounds muslim.
 
We want to work with our neighbors without some idiotic politicians trying to tell us how to live our lives, they may have gotten away with it by shoving the Euro down our throats but they will never be able to get away with the whole European constitution they've been working on,
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Holy fuck... The Euro currency was the best thing that ever happened to this continent. It's 2008, how can anyone talk bullshit like this.

EU haters are idiots anyway.

EU makes laws that apply to everyone: "Oh see, the EU, it's so egalitarian!!"

Arguments within member states: "Oh see, Europe will never get along LOLZ!!"

Earnings get cut: "EU SUCKS!!"

New game has shitty localization: "It's all the EU's fault!!"
 
I have no idea what the HELL you're talking about
Fall prey? Wtf?
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Let´s ellaborate since I have expressed myself in a way melodramatic way. A divided Europe simply cannot face the different treaths / challenges of the gobalized world. Issues like inmigration, climate change, international terrorism, wars or oil dependence, simply overwhelm small states like ours, even suppousedly strong states like the UK or France. And if we want to face them with any chances of sucess, we must do it united. However, nowadays we do not have a way to enforce inmigration policies, deploy armies overseas or create huge research programs, or at least, not with a fraction of the effectivity that a truthly unified goverment of the size of, say, the US or China, has. So even if we are not facing an inminent treath, it is pretty clear that the US and China are way more able to compete against us and beat us in any field (diplomacy, economy, warare, technology) in our current state than if we would be a unified political body.
 
Man, that is no fair. Europe in some shape, form, or fashion has been ruling the world for the past 500+ years. I think that it is time for America to truly enter its "Golden Years". Sure, we have had some shitty ones, but with Obama, america will be a MegaPower in no time.



Luckily for all parties involved thats not happening.
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What, you think McCain is going to be president? That ain't gonna happen. England has ruled the world pretty well. They were the last great European power. The Germans had control of a good amount of land, but they only lasted 6 years, so they don't count. America has been a superpower for about 60 years. EU will make Europe matter again, but they still won't be a superpower like China will.
 
The North American Union is probably going happen...well in our lifetimes

http://www.spp.gov/


Bush is pushing for it so it could only mean good things right? Maybe the reason they are trying to avoid the export of illegals..

but with Obama, america will be a MegaPower in no time
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Luckily for all parties involved thats not happening.
 
Evander said:
The EU lacks complete authority over even its own memberstates. How can you expect it to exert force over states which are not even members?
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Through combined economic and social will?

You don't need to be a single cohesive unit that agrees all the time to be able to work as a team to exert influence you know?

The EU is simply a model of the new age of imperialism... a democratic sort, where people in roughly similar geographical area with similar cultural attributes coalese together, providing each other more priority and respect than non-members of the body.

We'll likely through out this century see the formation of these sorts of areas all around the world... asia, North America, Africa, etc.
 
shaft said:
open borders - check
no trade barrier - check
1 currency - check
EU president - coming this year


United Sated of Europe is coming, if you like it or not.
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Are you kidding me? EU can't even agree on bringing taxation systems closer together. EU can't agree on so many subjects that if a United States of Europe were the goal of any nation (it's not), it would be at least a century off. In many areas the EU can bring the nations together, but in many others it cannot. It's because the EU has such vast differences amongst it's member states, it takes a lot of time for those to largely vanish. And until they do, the EU won't be able to come together on a large range of issues.

Ikael said:
Let´s ellaborate since I have expressed myself in a way melodramatic way. A divided Europe simply cannot face the different treaths / challenges of the gobalized world. Issues like inmigration, climate change, international terrorism, wars or oil dependence, simply overwhelm small states like ours, even suppousedly strong states like the UK or France. And if we want to face them with any chances of sucess, we must do it united. However, nowadays we do not have a way to enforce inmigration policies, deploy armies overseas or create huge research programs, or at least, not with a fraction of the effectivity that a truthly unified goverment of the size of, say, the US or China, has. So even if we are not facing an inminent treath, it is pretty clear that the US and China are way more able to compete against us and beat us in any field (diplomacy, economy, warare, technology) in our current state than if we would be a unified political body.
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The EU in it's current form is perfectly suited to dealing with climate change, international terrorism, wars, oil dependence and immigration. The EU doesn't need to be a singular entity on these fields, what it needs to do is bring the member states together and hammer out a compromise that fits out everyone. And no huge research programs? What do you call organizations like CERN? And as far as beating us in every field, I haven't seen any proof of that whatsoever. Sure, the US is militarily stronger, and they're welcome to being that. Because I don't feel like spending ridiculous amounts of money on an army we don't need. As far as technology and economy goes, we're more than fine obviously. And diplomatically, the EU is most definitely gaining influence, the direct impact on bordering regions to reform alone should speak volumes.

The EU isn't going to become a superstate, nor does it need to be one to serve the goals of it's member states.
 
The driving force behind the EU nowadays is economic reform. It'll be or already is an economic superpower.
I don't think we'll be a military superpower or anything more than that because we're all so different and a lot of people aren't really fond of war and military here.
That said, there's nothing like the EU anywhere else and it's hard to predict what it'll become but a singular superstate is still far away.
 
As long as Neelie makes sure i get my imports for cheap without being fucked over we will be fine in the EU

neeliekroes.jpg
 
I want peace bitches!

no wepons, no military just people that respects eachothers values and love them for who they are, oh and I also want some hot girls that I can impregnate so they can carry on my beautiful genes.
 
I like the concept of a "Europe of multiple speeds". This has already been happening for quite some time and allows member states to work together/integrate on various areas and go further then the EU as a whole can or is willing to go. The European project has always been about economic integration since the founding fathers (Monnet, Schuman) felt that tying the national industries of countries (especially Germany and France) together would make war less likely. Europe has never seen such a long period of peace amongst its countries in the last couple of thousand years and this is (I believe) is in no small part thanks to the EU.

But economic integration is a whole lot easier than integration on other elements. I think the continent right now has the 'luxury' of all these elements not being really pressing. I think the nations and the organization are capable of fast effective reform when pressed against the wall. Watch legislation fly when African boat refugees hit the Italian and Spanish coasts by the millions, or if East-European borders becoming unstable due to internal conflicts, failed states or Russia acting up. I'm not hoping for these things but I think there will eventually be a moment where Europeans will be rallying around the European flag.
 
Sir Fragula said:
In matters of trade they have the right to follow EU rulings or leave. Their sovereignty lies in that choice, not in the formulation of every EU law or ruling. They have the right to propose candidates for the EU's executive, and Parliament and the Council of Ministers play a legislative role... but these are all Union institutions.
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The parliament doesn't really have an actual legislative role. And it wouldn't even if the Lisbon Treaty came through.


norinrad21 said:
This was my reply when karakand posted this in the football/soccer thread
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Agreed :)
 
Tieno said:
The driving force behind the EU nowadays is economic reform. It'll be or already is an economic superpower.
I don't think we'll be a military superpower or anything more than that because we're all so different and a lot of people aren't really fond of war and military here.
That said, there's nothing like the EU anywhere else and it's hard to predict what it'll become but a singular superstate is still far away.
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The EU commission sure seems fond of it. There are some very militaristic paragraphs in the treaty.

edit: Excusez moi for the double post
 
Kabouter said:
Yes, because the Morocco of today is indicative of the Morocco that will most likely eventually join the EU....
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Morocco is an AFRICAN country. Not an European one. What is the EU then? A conglomerate of markets? Is that all we aspire to be? Culturally Morocco is at odds with us.
 
The clash of cultures keeps the E.U. in check. The French, Spanish, Germans, Italians etc. are very prideful of their countries. In any case, people forget to add that even if the E.U. became a superpower, the U.S. has become far more than a superpower. Essentially, it is what is called a hyperpower.
 
Funky Papa said:
Morocco is an AFRICAN country. Not an European one. What is the EU then? A conglomerate of markets? Is that all we aspire to be? Culturally Morocco is at odds with us.
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Yes, and most of Turkey isn't European either, who gives a crap? I honestly don't care if some Asian/African countries that meet the very high standards are a part of the EU.
 
Funky Papa said:
Morocco is an AFRICAN country. Not an European one. What is the EU then? A conglomerate of markets? Is that all we aspire to be? Culturally Morocco is at odds with European culture.
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Where the land is no longer matters (see Turkey), I agree that Morocco is on the list for the far future. Remember that when a country enters the E.U. the member states try to elevate that country economically and have a pretty good record on doing that. So Morocco will likely not be a member before some pending Eastern states of the former Soviet Union.
 
Once the British Empire gets a foothold again Europe will be the least of the worlds worries lol You colony folk shall learn your place!

Coming to a flag pole near you all soon :lol

800px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png
 
c2morg said:
Once the British Empire gets a foothold again Europe will be the least of the worlds worries lol You colony folk shall learn your place!

Coming to a flag pole near you all soon :lol

800px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png
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Hollywood would never allow this! :lol
 
Kabouter said:
Yes, and most of Turkey isn't European either, who gives a crap? I honestly don't care if some Asian/African countries that meet the very high standards are a part of the EU.
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Then we better change our name to the Failed Meta-State Previously Known as European Union. It has a nice ring, doesn't it? I bet we'll sell a lot of albums.
 
Funky Papa said:
Then we better change our name to the Failed Meta-State Previously Known as European Union. It has a nice ring, doesn't it? I bet we'll sell a lot of albums.
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I don't see how increasing your regional and economic power and doing so successfully is "failed".
 
Funky Papa said:
Then we better change our name to the Failed Meta-State Previously Known as European Union. It has a nice ring, doesn't it? I bet we'll sell a lot of albums.
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Eh, a lot can change in a century. I really haven't seen any argument from you as to why it could never ever join the EU, even if it meets every single standard.
 
Kabouter said:
Eh, a lot can change in a century. I really haven't seen any argument from you as to why it could never ever join the EU, even if it meets every single standard.
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Because the European Union should be about... Europe?

I have no problem with having deep relationships with other countries as long as they have high standards of politics and welfare, but the EU should be demolished at the very moment we start taking non-euro countries. Call it Coalition of Aligned Nations or whatever you please, but not European Union.
 
Funky Papa said:
Because the European Union should be about... Europe?

I have no problem with having deep relationships with other countries as long as they have high standards of politics and welfare, but the EU should be demolished at the very moment we start taking non-euro countries. Call it Coalition of Aligned Nations or whatever you please, but not European Union.
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:lol O.K. is this a serious argument?
 
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