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[Grizzlyjin]

On this board alone, I've seen it on occasion in the Arrow thread, the Flash thread, the S.H.I.E.L.D. thread, the Daredevil thread, etc. I know I can't be the only one to have seen this.

Yoooooouuuu arrrre not alooooooone.

For Arrow, most of the hate moved off Laurel to Felicity. Which I find amusing because so many people asked for more Felicity in S1 and that's why she became a main character to begin with. People like to say S3 sucked because of Felicity, but taking her out of the equation wouldn't change much. That being said "The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak" is my least favorite episode. There are a ton of forgettable ones, but that was just terrible from start to finish.

I would say one of the biggest sins that Flash and Arrow share is that they have trouble writing story arcs for female characters that don't have relationship drama at the core. That's why I liked Laurel, because after they gave up on making her the typical CW love interest, she got to have her own arc that had nothing to do with being with Oliver. She had a drinking problem, she was messing up her job, she lost her sister, she became a vigilante. Thea broke out of that trend too. For awhile, her and Roy were there to so we could fulfill the "Smoochin' at Verdant" quota for every episode. But they eventually took her beyond that.

Felicity is more problematic for me. She started off as the Ms. Moneypenny to Oliver's James Bond. She wore pencil skirts, made a quip, and did computer magic. Once she became a regular they needed to expand on that and her world sorta revolved around Oliver. They were doing a good job with the wheelchair and her being CEO, but all that got written off and pushed out.

I still have no clue what Caitlin Snow's character is beyond crying over an ex boyfriend. They need to work on that next season because she's one of the originals of Team Flash.

I like Karen Page on Daredevil. I don't know why anyone would hate her, but I've seen complaints. Some people just want all fight scenes.

 

[Volimar]

Between this and GoT, i'm pretty much in "eh, fuck it" mode when it comes to explanations.

 

[Anbokr]

Zoom explained it to Joe when he was giving his story. He has the ability to open Breaches into different Earths because "Speed Force." That's how he smuggled Earth 3 Jay Garrick into Earth 2.

this season has just had completely arbitrary powers zooming in and fucking out lol, and they never bothered to explain hunter's whole DARKNESS black eyes + monstrous voice thing that apparently turns him into houdini (so i guess the answer is "we just thought it was cool")

i still love the show but just way too many plotholes and inconsistencies this season between the time remnants, breaches, cisco projection shit, inside the speedforce, darkness monster shenanigans, barry's speed worked but jay's didnt, etc... gotta calm down a bit with the crazy shit rofl

 

[Kyoufu]

Karen is awesome in Daredevil. She's very well written. The whole show is for the most part. Arrow isn't, unfortunately.

I think bad writing in Arrow makes the show suffer more than The Flash because Arrow is meant to be a more grounded experience, so the bad writing stands out more than say, Hunter Zolomon getting his past self to kill himself on The Flash.

 

[icespide]

this season has just had completely arbitrary powers zooming in and fucking out lol, and they never bothered to explain hunter's whole DARKNESS black eyes + monstrous voice thing that apparently turns him into houdini (so i guess the answer is "we just thought it was cool")

i still love the show but just way too many plotholes and inconsistencies this season between the time remnants, breaches, cisco projection shit, inside the speedforce, darkness; gotta calm down a bit with the crazy shit rofl

I'm generally pretty accepting of comic book bullshit and stuff but this season of the flash may have pushed me over the edge

 

[Pendas]

Yoooooouuuu arrrre not alooooooone......

I agree with all this. You can remove Caitlin from this entire season and nothing of value was lost. I feel like Jessie is also falling into that same trap with her recent googly eyes for Wally. It's sad the CW still struggles with female characters. Can't wait to see what they turn Supergirl into...

 

[Volimar]

Karen is awesome in Daredevil. She's very well written.

I'm so glad she's got her own things going on. She doesn't just wait for Matt to tell her to do something, she's out there getting answers for herself.

 

[Anbokr]

The term 'fans' cracks me up.

Those people aren't fans, they're the whiniest nerds in the history of the internet, sort of people who make watching/commenting on these shows utterly insufferable because they get so salty every episode at the most minimal of details. Like I get criticising a show, I don't get people who seriously think Arrow is anywhere close to being the worst show on television. Like how small is your experience of TV that you think that is in any conceivable way true?

Not to mention how the anger at Felicity is flat out creepy as fuck. Like genuinely makes me concerned for certain people's mental states/attitudes to women.

I don't see much "anger" at felicity (on these boards specifically). I see anger directed at the current season of arrow, how the character is written (several of them in fact), and the general direction of the show since s2. Lots of anger directed at Guggenheim (the showrunner).

I've watched plenty of television and while i won't say arrow (s3 onwards) is the shittiest show i've ever seen, it's pretty shit. You obviously feel otherwise, and that's completely fine. Opinions and all that right? This anti-women comment always comes up with felicity and it just cracks me up--it's akin to the people that claim your anti-semitic for disagreeing with or disapproving actions of the Israeli government or a politiician. I like caitlyn, I like iris, I like laurel, and I like plenty of female characters. I also dislike plenty of female characters. I also like plenty of male characters. I also dislike plenty of male characters. One of the female characters I dislike and believe to be plagued by shitty, ham-fisted writing is felicity. Sorry for my creepiness and hate-mongering.

Are people in this thread who are bashing their heads in at Barry's stupidity creepy or have sickening attitudes towards men? No, they just don't like the actions, motivations, or writing behind X character.

 

[Pendas]

this season has just had completely arbitrary powers zooming in and fucking out lol, and they never bothered to explain hunter's whole DARKNESS black eyes + monstrous voice thing that apparently turns him into houdini (so i guess the answer is "we just thought it was cool")

i still love the show but just way too many plotholes and inconsistencies this season between the time remnants, breaches, cisco projection shit, inside the speedforce, darkness monster shenanigans, barry's speed worked but jay's didnt, etc... gotta calm down a bit with the crazy shit rofl

I agree. Every episode I find it harder and harder to sit through. If this wasn't a Flash show I would have given up on it a long time ago.

 

[Kyoufu]

I'm so glad she's got her own things going on. She doesn't just wait for Matt to tell her to do something, she's out there getting answers for herself.

Yeah and she brings something different to the show. Like a more investigative element. You absolutely cannot have 100% Matt Murdock action scenes, that would get tiring and old pretty fast.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

I kinda feel this way too.

It's not really just about Arrow either, though it's certainly more pronounced in discussions about that show.

If you hang out in any thread here for a superhero show (or maybe just general sci-fi or fantasy show, anything with a "fandom"), or any discussion online really, you will always without fail see people coming in talking about how <main female character> should die because they are annoying or show ruining. This is usually because they have the temerity to do things like express emotions or, sin of all sins, have things going on that don't involve (or actively conflict with) the male protagonist's plans or goals.

On this board alone, I've seen it on occasion in the Arrow thread, the Flash thread, the S.H.I.E.L.D. thread, the Daredevil thread, etc. I know I can't be the only one to have seen this.

Fandoms can be pretty hard on female characters for a variety of reasons. Then again fandoms have gotten pretty terrible over the years.
Edit: Felicity and Laurel probably would've been written better if they never had romantic relationships with Oliver.

 

[Wingfan19]

What I'd like to see for both Arrow and Flash next season is actually less superhero shit and more off the clock time. Go back to season 1 of Arrow and just look at all the time Ollie spent out of the costume and just talking to people, faking being the playboy, doing research/surveillance. I want to see more of that kind of stuff on both shows. It helps get them out of the Arrow Cave or Star Labs every scene and expands their worlds. Can we get back to Ollie getting Queen Industries back on track? Or Barry having to actually do his police job and solve a crime? They could give Caitlyn an entire sub arc which takes her away from the main cast and shows her home life or other hobbies. I don't even need full episodes dedicated to these things (in fact, that would be worse since they'd do the one episode and never re-visit it again), but just show them doing things outside of always being around Oliver or Barry.

 

[Anbokr]

What I'd like to see for both Arrow and Flash next season is actually less superhero shit and more off the clock time. Go back to season 1 of Arrow and just look at all the time Ollie spent out of the costume and just talking to people, faking being the playboy, doing research/surveillance. I want to see more of that kind of stuff on both shows. It helps get them out of the Arrow Cave or Star Labs every scene and expands their worlds. Can we get back to Ollie getting Queen Industries back on track? Or Barry having to actually do his police job and solve a crime? They could give Caitlyn an entire sub arc which takes her away from the main cast and shows her home life or other hobbies. I don't even need full episodes dedicated to these things (in fact, that would be worse since they'd do the one episode and never re-visit it again), but just show them doing things outside of always being around Oliver or Barry.

I agree completely. I really like the off the clock stuff in superhero shows (and films). While I don't want these shows to go full Smallville obviously, some more time out of the costume and away from the big bad would do both shows some good.

 

[MHWilliams]

Edit: Felicity and Laurel probably would've been written better if they never had romantic relationships with Oliver.

I have stated this very fact repeatedly.

 

[Wingfan19]

I agree completely. I really like the off the clock stuff in superhero shows (and films). While I don't want these shows to go full Smallville obviously, some more time out of the costume and away from the big bad would do both shows some good.

Oh wait, I just thought about the other side of that. AKA the Walking Dead thread we have here, where every episode sucks or is shit because they wasn't a lot of action and the story "didn't progress" a huge amount in those 44 minutes. Instead, they got small character and slice of life scenes which I actually love in long series. The audience needs a break every so often whether they realize it or not.

 

[Anbokr]

Edit: Felicity and Laurel probably would've been written better if they never had romantic relationships with Oliver.

Proof is in the pudding too, Felicity and Laurel were both fairly well liked and awesome (in my book) when they weren't in romantic relationships with Oliver. See entire Laurel Black Canary arc and Felicity s1 and s2 lol.

 

[Seven Force]

What I'd like to see for both Arrow and Flash next season is actually less superhero shit and more off the clock time. Go back to season 1 of Arrow and just look at all the time Ollie spent out of the costume and just talking to people, faking being the playboy, doing research/surveillance. I want to see more of that kind of stuff on both shows. It helps get them out of the Arrow Cave or Star Labs every scene and expands their worlds. Can we get back to Ollie getting Queen Industries back on track? Or Barry having to actually do his police job and solve a crime? They could give Caitlyn an entire sub arc which takes her away from the main cast and shows her home life or other hobbies. I don't even need full episodes dedicated to these things (in fact, that would be worse since they'd do the one episode and never re-visit it again), but just show them doing things outside of always being around Oliver or Barry.

Fairly sure the Flash producers said Season 3's going to delve into Caitlin's personal/family life more, so there's that.

 

[Volimar]

I thought Laurel was really coming into her own thise season.


You want vitriol? Try being a female character near the brothers' age on Supernatural.

 

[Drahcir]

But my issue with this is that Eobard Thawne should not have been erased from existence when Eddie killed himself, because like you said, Eobard and the future had already happened, so why did Eddie offing himself mean that Eobard had to go too? Shit makes no sense.

I dare the writers to explain it tbh.

Hmmm. I'm trying to come up with a reason for this and I can't. But hey, it won't matter anyway come Season 3, right? That's the best I got.

 

[Wingfan19]

Fairly sure the Flash producers said Season 3's going to delve into Caitlin's personal/family life more, so there's that.

That's great to hear. We kind of got that with Cisco and his brother back in season 1, but have we seen Caitlyn's apartment or family yet? I can't remember.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

Proof is in the pudding too, Felicity and Laurel were both fairly well liked and awesome characters when they weren't in romantic relationships with Oliver. See entire Laurel Black Canary arc and Felicity s1 and s2 lol...

I have stated this very fact repeatedly.

Diggle never dated Oliver and he turned at relatively fine.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Sara was largely liked aside from Caity's acting and people who had problems with her looks.

It's not just because they're women on these shows it's that they're often get saddled with being the source of badly written often irrational because the plot demands it, drama and especially in Arrow's case a shitload of hypocrisy that rarely, if ever gets called out. Oliver has been pretty shit too along with it and I think a lot of us were enjoying season four more than three up until the cross over just spewed shit on everything with the secret kid drama.

In Arrow's case it also doesn't help that the people in charge and writers have completely fallen in love with their "creation" and has devolved into fan service pandering and getting her own family drama and a goofy side kick to go along with it. Felicity use to be almost universally liked (outside the opposing shippers) until they grossly expanded the character's role and amped up the drama surrounding her in season three though season two had it's moments where the cracks were already starting to show in where they were taking her. Then you have Arrow's problem of fridging female characters to create additional drama to drive their story lines.

EDIT: It's completely on the show runners and writers and how they treat these characters seeing how when they've been used on the Flash they immediately become much more likable.

 

[Anbokr]

But my issue with this is that Eobard Thawne should not have been erased from existence when Eddie killed himself, because like you said, Eobard and the future had already happened, so why did Eddie offing himself mean that Eobard had to go too? Shit makes no sense.

I dare the writers to explain it tbh.

Also, I find it incredibly unbelievable that past versions of Hunter Zolomon would agree to be killed.

yeah the inconsistencies behind time travel, time remnants, and everything time related in this show are just mind boggling

i've pretty much come to accept that there is no actual consistency and we just have to roll with whatever they feed us

 

[Stallion Dan]

I'm thinking this is what happened. Supposedly, time wraiths only appear when you go back a significant amount of time, and I'm guessing when you create a paradox (something isn't supposed to happen, but does).

Time Wraiths only appear when the writers want them to.

yeah the inconsistencies behind time travel, time remnants, and everything time related in this show are just mind boggling

i've pretty much come to accept that there is no actual consistency and we just have to roll with whatever they feed us

Time travel inconsistencies are the number one dislike I have for the show. I just don't care about the stakes when the writers go and break their own rules.

 

[Rajack]

fucking hell Barry, you just messed everything up.

 

[Sephzilla]

So is season 3 going to be Flashpoint?

 

[Kyoufu]

So is season 3 going to be Flashpoint?

It's gotta be, yeah. This is how Flashpoint started.

 

[icespide]

So is season 3 going to be Flashpoint?

the first episode at least

 

[Pendas]

Fairly sure the Flash producers said Season 3's going to delve into Caitlin's personal/family life more, so there's that.

Does she have another past boyfriend that dies to grieve about? (I couldn't resist)

 

[Volimar]

So is season 3 going to be Flashpoint?

Almost certainly not the whole season. Most of us figure on it being a few episodes before it gets resolved so Flash can sync up with Arrow/Legends/Supergirl for crossovers since they probably won't have those shows with the altered timeline.

 

[Sephzilla]

If Barry would have let Zoom win, that means Zoom would have destroyed the Snyderverse. God damnit, Barry.

It's gotta be, yeah. This is how Flashpoint started.

the first episode at least

I'm hyped

 

[Kyoufu]

Almost certainly not the whole season. Most of us figure on it being a few episodes before it gets resolved so Flash can sync up with Arrow/Legends/Supergirl for crossovers since they probably won't have those shows with the altered timeline.

Blah, I was hoping for an entire season of Eobard goodness. :<

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

So is season 3 going to be Flashpoint?

I think Barry winds up in an alternate timeline with FP, and in the "normal" world Barry is missing. Opens up Wally and keeps the other shows neat and tidy.

 

[Xemnas89]

So is season 3 going to be Flashpoint?

I doubt it's the whole season but it'll be an important experience for Barry. My hope is it lasts till the crossover but who can say at this point.

 

[Sephzilla]

Blah, I was hoping for an entire season of Eobard goodness. :<

Think bigger, maybe the end result is Wellsobard being alive again.

 

[Kyoufu]

Think bigger, maybe the end result is Wellsobard being alive again.

Honestly, I don't even mind who plays Eobard. Just give me more Reverse Flash, writers!

 

[HoopzBarkley]

I think Barry winds up in an alternate timeline with FP, and in the "normal" world Barry is missing. Opens up Wally and keeps the other shows neat and tidy.

This is what I am thinking as well.

 

[Sephzilla]

So the obvious prediction now is that Barry fucks up massively and creates a Flashpoint timeline. And then Barry of season 3 is the Flash that goes back in time and tries to wave off season 1 Barry from stopping Reverse Flash. Also he'll stop season 2 Barry in the process.

Im also guessing Oliver's dad will be Green Arrow now. Or maybe Malcolm Merlyn.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Couldn't zoom just take out the DC Movie universe and die a hero. Black flash and flashpoint are hype. Can't wait to see what they do

 

[Sephzilla]

Arrowverse season 2 villains now have a trend of almost being the heroes fans needed. Deathstroke almost killed Felicity. Zoom almost destroyed the Snyderverse. The bad guy for season 2 of Legends is going to almost stop season 3 of Arrow from happening or nearly kill Hawkgirl and Hawkman, I bet.

 

[Teletraan1]

This show.
THIS BLOODY SHOW.

What is the point of that mask revelation, the ending and EVERYTHING THAT EVER HAPPENED EVER.



Is Felicity that bad in Arrow S3 and S4. I loved her in S1 and S2. And her mom's there as well?

Yeah I really hate when everything you just watched means nothing because it is all changed now. Or they kill off a character that the just spent 4 seasons turning into a good character.

Felicity....Kinda, but the people who bag on her in every CW show thread are far more annoying than she is and she is pretty annoying. I think every character on Arrow makes the worst, illogical decisions at every step for the last few seasons, it is probably just bad writing. It just frustrates people to no end because it is so baffling and nobody under any circumstance would ever react that way.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Yeah I really hate when everything you just watched means nothing because it is all changed now. Or they kill off a character that the just spent 4 seasons turning into a good character.

Felicity....Kinda, but the people who bag on her in every CW show thread are far more annoying than she is and she is pretty annoying. I think every character on Arrow makes the worst, illogical decisions at every step for the last few seasons, it is probably just bad writing. It just frustrates people to no end because it is so baffling and nobody under any circumstance would ever react that way.

You can toss this criticism towards Barry this season.

 

[NoTacos]

But my issue with this is that Eobard Thawne should not have been erased from existence when Eddie killed himself, because like you said, Eobard and the future had already happened, so why did Eddie offing himself mean that Eobard had to go too? Shit makes no sense.

I dare the writers to explain it tbh.

Also, I find it incredibly unbelievable that past versions of Hunter Zolomon would agree to be killed.

The guy was dying and running out of time regardless.

"Hi time remnant version of me. Bad news is if you just continue to exist as you are, we're both eventually going to die. Good news is if you let me kill you, which doesn't disrupt our existence, we, by which I mean I, will have found a way to cure the velocity 9 mishap."

You can toss this criticism towards Barry this season.

At least this last decision builds up to an interesting storyline. Bad decisions on Arrow just leave a pointless mess.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

At least this last decision builds up to an interesting storyline. Bad decisions on Arrow just leave a pointless mess.

Barry learning a lesson he learned about twice in two different seasons isn't interesting. I think people assume Flashpoint and get high off the idea of it, when thematically you're kinda just forcing it in there.

 

[Kyoufu]

The guy was dying and running out of time regardless.

"Hi time remnant version of me. Bad news is if you just continue to exist as you are, we're both eventually going to die. Good news is if you let me kill you, which doesn't disrupt our existence, we, by which I mean I, will have found a way to cure the velocity 9 mishap."

Are you sure the time remnant we saw in the finale was dying? When Barry initially unmasked Zoom he said to Barry that they're not different and that family is a weakness. This was just before he got Barry's speed and cured himself.

I'm pretty certain the time remnant we saw in the finale was post-cure Hunter.

Either way, we'll never really know. Don't think it matters now anyway.

 

[Mariolee]

The explanation is Hunter Zoloman is crazy af.

 

[Kyoufu]

What I want to know is, what happens to the past timeline if present day Barry takes past version of Barry into the present day to use as a time remnant. Is that timeline left without a Flash??

Ugh. This time remnant stuff gives me a headache.

 

[Ponn]

So the obvious prediction now is that Barry fucks up massively and creates a Flashpoint timeline. And then Barry of season 3 is the Flash that goes back in time and tries to wave off season 1 Barry from stopping Reverse Flash. Also he'll stop season 2 Barry in the process.

.

If we don't get a scene with 8 different timeline Barrys peeking out behind doors and closets in his moms house i'm going to be pissed.

 

[ZeroX03]

If we don't get a scene with 8 different timeline Barrys peeking out behind doors and closets in his moms house i'm going to be pissed.

And a veteran Wally just sweeps in to clean up the mess all of them leave.

 

[Ponn]

And a veteran Wally just sweeps in to clean up the mess all of them leave.

Wally: "Parties over, get the hell out of here right now"

Barry's: "Awww shucks"