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[PHOENIXZERO]

Moira would probably play Malcolm's role but they're not going to get Susanna Thompson so we wouldn't see her unless she's wearing a mask.

 

[Sephzilla]

Tommy being Green Arrow in the Flashpoint Arrowverse and Moira being in a Malcom role would be awesome

Finished S2. What a weak follow-up to a great first season and Zoom went from awesome to aweful. Meh. Finale was weak, I hate the constant time travelling and Barry, oh man, what an idiot he became. Is his helmet nit insulated enough and heat from friction started degenerating proteins in his head or what. Or maybe all that turbine shit with his arms has made his brain vibrate on another frequency, the special one.

I watched Daredevil S1 and S2 during the last few weeks and while it isn't as fun and charming as S1 of The Flash was I think I'll look forward to that in the future.

I have a very strong feeling that Flash time traveling is going to be stopped or majorly reduced after season 3 considering season 2 established that Time Wraiths are getting pretty fucking sick of this time traveling shit going on and Barry's going to learn a lesson after this Flashpoint arc.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

I'm assuming Flashpoint is going to be how they bring back Snart. Citizen Cold will help Barry fix the timeline, even knowing it will result in his death. Then he somehow manages to escape the Flashpoint timeline and return to the main Arrowverse.

Whatever happens in Flashpoint, it will probably set up Crisis for teh December crossover.

 

[TheOMan]

Olivers dad barely matters on an emotional level to these characters tbh

Flashpoint green arrow should be Tommy

This would be legit amazing.

 

[Ithil]

Ok, finally caught up on Flash/Arrow finales (still 4 episodes behind on Legends)

Thoughts:

-To me, Barry's decision at the end wasn't a retcon for the character (especially compared to 2 episodes before when he said he finally dealt with his mothers death), but more that he was lying to himself and putting this facade out there because he felt it was the only thing he had left to feel. Once his dad was killed the same fashion, he channeled the hate for Zoom into giving himself a fleeting moment of happiness, without realizing the consequences.

-Zoom was a good villain, but I kind of felt a little disappointed in the end with his arc.

-I really hope this is not the last of Wells character, but the way the ending was written, it sounds like it might be at least for a while.

-I'm assuming with the mention that the Earth's are "infinite" season 3 is going to focus on an eventual "crisis" storyline since we essentially got Flashpoint at the end of season 2.

Overall, I thought it was a great episode. Much better than Arrow.

Wells will be back some way into Season 3, once Jessie gets powers.

 

[morningbus]

Yo, we remember that Robert Queen shot himself in the head in front of his son so that he could survive, right? Like, that's some traumatic shit you don't get over.

Flashpoint spoilers from here out:

Spoiler

The main emotional beats would be identical between Robert/Thomas and Oliver/Bruce. In Flashpoint, Thomas's emotional arc centers around the idea that, somewhere out there, his son was alive. He's willing to go along with this crazy plan to reset the universe because whatever the other universe is like, his son survived the alley. Robert would have the same motivation. He is the guy who would have killed himself for his son but he wasn't given the chance.

Equally, the payoff for the story, where Barry brings the letter back for Bruce would be equally impactful for Oliver. It's a letter from his Father who killed himself for him. The letter could just be giving him alternate reality stock tips and it'd destroy him emotionally.

 

[Joni]

Yo, we remember that Robert Queen shot himself in the head in front of his son so that he could survive, right? Like, that's some traumatic shit you don't get over.

It is however a bit lower level than seeing your dad killed in front of your eyes when you're 12 because you were the little brat that didn't want to sit still for an hour.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Yo, we remember that Robert Queen shot himself in the head in front of his son so that he could survive, right? Like, that's some traumatic shit you don't get over.

Flashpoint spoilers from here out:

Spoiler

The main emotional beats would be identical between Robert/Thomas and Oliver/Bruce. In Flashpoint, Thomas's emotional arc centers around the idea that, somewhere out there, his son was alive. He's willing to go along with this crazy plan to reset the universe because whatever the other universe is like, his son survived the alley. Robert would have the same motivation. He is the guy who would have killed himself for his son but he wasn't given the chance.

Equally, the payoff for the story, where Barry brings the letter back for Bruce would be equally impactful for Oliver. It's a letter from his Father who killed himself for him. The letter could just be giving him alternate reality stock tips and it'd destroy him emotionally.

I think the biggest issue with that would be from an audience perspective, Robert Queen's death is still lesser than Moira, Tommy, or even Laurel. Yeah, it was shocking. But they've barely touched on it and Oliver rarely ever brings it up. Maybe a few times very quickly when talking to Thea about her parentage.

I like the idea of Tommy becoming a Flashpoint Green Arrow more just because his death was the moment that Oliver decided he needed to more than a vigilante with a list, and he decided to be a hero. His skills were honed on the island, but he decided to be a hero at the end of S1 with Tommy's death. That caused him to go down a new path. Robert Queen's death doesn't change Oliver's life. He still would have been on the island, he still would have gained his skills that he has. He had family when he got off the island, and he still chose to become The Hood. Only thing that Robert Queen living changes is the list from S1, and they've basically chosen to ignore that it existed. It hasn't been brought up in the flashbacks recently. Now Thomas and Martha Wayne dying definitely changes Bruce. It's weird to compare because death is death in the real world, but these comics shows don't treat every death equally.

They'll probably do Robert though. They can recast that because nobody remembers what he looks like from Season 1. Same thing they did with Sara going into Season 2. Tommy's actor is busy on one of those NBC Chicago shows.

 

[vareon]

I kinda like Barry's decision to save his mom seemingly on a whim in the last bit. The threat's gone, everybody's happy, but he lost his dad just like that. So he went "Fuck this shit I'm going New Game +".

Budget Flashpoint isn't going to be anything close to comics/DC Animated of course, but I'm looking forward to S3.

 

[Joni]

Only thing that Robert Queen living changes is the list from S1, and they've basically chosen to ignore that it existed. It hasn't been brought up in the flashbacks recently.

They showed it in the finale.

They'll probably do Robert though. They can recast that because nobody remembers what he looks like from Season 1. Same thing they did with Sara going into Season 2. Tommy's actor is busy on one of those NBC Chicago shows.

Jamey Sheridan shouldn't be that difficult to get even.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

It seems like the CW super-show OTs are so caught up in trying to call out all the Ls being caught that people rarely stop to try and think that these events are anything other than bad writing.

I don't really see what Barry did at the end of the episode to be some huge betrayal of his character development. Barry was pretty clearly not thinking rationally at any point during the finale, something that was pushed when the team locked him up before he went off half cocked at the beginning of the episode. This is clearly a guy who thinks he had everything together, then his Dad is murdered suddenly and its like, "Fuck it, I can't handle this."

Comic book nerds gotta comic book nerd. Remember when Waid lost his shit over nothing? It's like that. Just wait till next season for it to blow over and people who said "I'm dropping this show" will keep watching.

 

[morningbus]

It is however a bit lower level than seeing your dad killed in front of your eyes when you're 12 because you were the little brat that didn't want to sit still for an hour.

Hey, how the two tragedies compare is a discussion. But the stories being able to cover the same emotional beats isn't.

I think the biggest issue with that would be from an audience perspective, Robert Queen's death is still lesser than Moira, Tommy, or even Laurel. Yeah, it was shocking. But they've barely touched on it and Oliver rarely ever brings it up. Maybe a few times very quickly when talking to Thea about her parentage.

They did funnily enough have the list show up in the last flashback of this season for a second. But don't get me wrong, I agree: Robert Queen has been mostly out of the picture. I think all it would ultimately require is them to establish the stakes again in whatever episode deals with the event, though.

It would be quick for the audience to grasp why all this stuff matters. They won't be thinking about how the Thomas/Bruce relationship is more impactful.

It'd also be a good stepping point for Oliver to rediscover the list, especially now that he has

Spoiler

a political office. It would be neat for him to go find another copy of the list, or something, and notice that it's filled with people who surround him in the local government.

 

[ZeroX03]

Tommy stuff isn't happening. They'd be lucky to get him for a day. He's got another show now.

It is however a bit lower level than seeing your dad killed in front of your eyes when you're 12 because you were the little brat that didn't want to sit still for an hour.

That seems really nitpicky. Dead parents are emotionally affecting at any age, short of like a natural expected death. He died when Oliver was 22 after Sara's death and killing another guy. Even it's slightly less tragic, so what?

Robert Queen's death doesn't change Oliver's life.

If Robert hadn't died, Ollie would have.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Hey, how the two tragedies compare is a discussion. But the stories being able to cover the same emotional beats isn't.



They did funnily enough have the list show up in the last flashback of this season for a second. But don't get me wrong, I agree: Robert Queen has been mostly out of the picture. I think all it would ultimately require is them to establish the stakes again in whatever episode deals with the event, though.

It would be quick for the audience to grasp why all this stuff matters. They won't be thinking about how the Thomas/Bruce relationship is more impactful.

It'd also be a good stepping point for Oliver to rediscover the list, especially now that he has

Spoiler

a political office. It would be neat for him to go find another copy of the list, or something, and notice that it's filled with people who surround him in the local government.

Yeah, they could do Robert and build up the relationship now on Flash since its mostly an afterthought on Arrow. Get that cameo at the end to really sell the whole thing. The Flash does do parent drama well.

 

[Joni]

Hey, how the two tragedies compare is a discussion. But the stories being able to cover the same emotional beats isn't.

That seems really nitpicky. Dead parents are emotionally affecting at any age, short of like a natural expected death. He died when Oliver was 22 after Sara's death and killing another guy. Even it's slightly less tragic, so what?

They will have to work harder to earn it though. I never got the impression that it was something Oliver carried with himself. He will need to play a role somehow before Barry comes back with the letter. Need Earth-2 Green Arrow in there to show how Oliver feels.

 

[morningbus]

Am I misremembering things or did Moira have her own copy of the list? I could have sworn they established that.

Then all it would take is for Oliver to get sentimental and look through his parent's personal effects and rediscover the list and notice that it is surprisingly relevant to today.

 

[ZeroX03]

They will have to work harder to earn it though. I never got the impression that it was something Oliver carried with himself. He will need to play a role somehow before Barry comes back with the letter. Need Earth-2 Green Arrow in there to show how Oliver feels.

They won't have to work that much harder. Father gets to learn his son leads a good life after his death. Son gets one last message from beyond the grave. Like so what if it doesn't hit the exact beat in the same intensity? It's still like 95% accurate. It's a touching story when you apply it to pretty much anyone.

And of course it says something Oliver carried with him? Have you watched season one recently? He defeats Merlyn by flashing back to Robert killing himself. "Survive" echoed throughout that season, which coincidentally we're about to loop in on in the flashbacks.

 

[Sephzilla]

Am I misremembering things or did Moira have her own copy of the list? I could have sworn they established that.

Then all it would take is for Oliver to get sentimental and look through his parent's personal effects and rediscover the list and notice that it is surprisingly relevant to today.

Everyone who was part of Malcom's undertaking had a notebook, IIRC

 

[Joni]

Am I misremembering things or did Moira have her own copy of the list? I could have sworn they established that.

Then all it would take is for Oliver to get sentimental and look through his parent's personal effects and rediscover the list and notice that it is surprisingly relevant to today.

Season 1 had at least two versions of the list shown, dad and moms. But Moira burned one.

They won't have to work that much harder. Father gets to learn his son leads a good life after his death. Son gets one last message from beyond the grave. Like so what if it doesn't hit the exact beat in the same intensity? It's still like 95% accurate. It's a touching story when you apply it to pretty much anyone.

And of course it says something Oliver carried with him? Have you watched season one recently? He defeats Merlyn by flashing back to Robert killing himself. "Survive" echoed throughout that season, which coincidentally we're about to loop in on in the flashbacks.

For Batman it feels like the parents were really apparant. Having to see it in every version every movie series helps that And it could work, but I hope it won't come too out of the blue without them ever showing how he feels before they get to the letter.

 

[KonradLaw]

I think the biggest issue with that would be from an audience perspective, Robert Queen's death is still lesser than Moira, Tommy, or even Laurel. .

Nah. Not even close. Robert's death is what made Oliver into who he is. Every other death might have been dramatic and sad, but it never sticks. He tried to be valiant hero after Tommy, didn't work. And every other death just puts him into sour mood that never changes permanently. Slade killed Moira, but Oliver spared his life. Darkh killed Laurel, and Oliver killed him.

In the end Oliver will forever remain at it's core the animal that came from the island. That will always be at the centre of his character. Any other changes might just add to it, but they might eventually fall off. That core will never change.

Robert's death is what drives Oliver's survival instinct and his father's sins are what motivates him to do better and save the city.

I would even say that Robert's letter would have more emotional impact on Oliver than Thomas' one had on Bruce.

 

[Sephzilla]

Nah. Not even close. Robert's death is what made Oliver into who he is. Every other death might have been dramatic and sad, but it never sticks. He tried to be valiant hero after Tommy, didn't work. And every other death just puts him into sour mood that never changes permanently. Slade killed Moira, but Oliver spared his life. Darkh killed Laurel, and Oliver killed him.

In the end Oliver will forever remain at it's core the animal that came from the island. That will always be at the centre of his character. Any other changes might just add to it, but they might eventually fall off. That core will never change.

Robert's death is what drives Oliver's survival instinct and his father's sins are what motivates him to do better and save the city.

Oliver finding out that his father wasn't remotely the person Oliver thought he was, and then Robert dying, is absolutely what turns him into who he is now so I agree with you. While I think Tommy being the Flashpoint Arrow would be really neat, it wouldn't make as much sense as Robert being in the role.

I would even say that Robert's letter would have more emotional impact on Oliver than Thomas' one had on Bruce.

Lets not get carried away here

 

[ZeroX03]

Robert is the catalyst for season one, and the Arrow identity and saving the city.

Tommy's death affected season two onward and acts as Oliver's moral compass.

Moira's death was a shocker but hasn't stayed as relevant because Susanna won't do flashbacks so why dwell on her?

Laurel's death we'll see. It'll probably affect Sara and Chesthair the most, Laurel was the girl Oliver thought was the one because they were together but it turned out like eight other girls were more his thing.


No matter how you rank the importance, if any show can sell a dead father storyline it's The Flash. Barry's lost how many older male mentors at this point? Wells, Stein, Joe-2, Hunter, Henry, Wells-2, Eddie, Captain Cold, Gorilla Grodd, himself in the past...

 

[KonradLaw]

Lets not get carried away here

I'm saying this because in most Batman incarnations we never get to know Thomas. He's more of an idea of good father, idealized version of this character Bruce carries in his head. For a audience he's an enigma.

We did get to know Robert better and we also saw him have much more direct impact on Oliver. What's more. Thomas was a good guy. Robert was a very flawed man. So for him to see his son correcting his own sins would be a great
Thomas was proud because his son was better hero than he was. Robert would see his son being both better hero and better man than than he was. What's more. Bruce was a kid with bright future ahead of him. When Robert died Oliver was selfish, lazy asshole that would never ammount to anything. Robert's sacrifice on that raft made it possible for Oliver to make something good with his life. Bruce was always going to become somebody big, even if he wouldn't be running around in Bat costume.

 

[KonradLaw]

No matter how you rank the importance, if any show can sell a dead father storyline it's The Flash. Barry's lost how many older male mentors at this point? Wells, Stein, Joe-2, Hunter, Henry, Wells-2, Eddie, Captain Cold, Gorilla Grodd, himself in the past...

Two most dangerous jobs in Arrowverse: Mayor of Star City and father figure for Barry Allen

 

[Kyoufu]

Two most dangerous jobs in Arrowverse: Mayor of Star City and father figure for Barry Allen

Caitlin's love interest being the most dangerous/futile role in the galaxy.

 

[Joni]

Caitlin's love interest being the most dangerous/futile role in the galaxy.

Just an indication of the bad guys.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Tom Cavanaugh confirmed as a regular for season 3:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/05/27/tom-cavanagh-confirmed-to-be-returning-as-series-regular-for-the/

 

[Kyoufu]

Tom Cavanaugh confirmed as a regular for season 3:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/05/27/tom-cavanagh-confirmed-to-be-returning-as-series-regular-for-the/

OG Wells confirmed?

Eobard Wells confirmed?

Confirmed confirmed?

 

[Septimus Prime]

I would assume it's E2 Wells, after worlds converge.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

OG Wells confirmed?

Eobard Wells confirmed?

Confirmed confirmed?

Speculation as to his role, just confirmation he's back.

They speculate that either True Wells lives in the Flashpoint Universe or that Harry could return or even that Team Flash could spend some time on Earth 2.

 

[Kyoufu]

Speculation as to his role, just confirmation he's back.

They speculate that either True Wells lives in the Flashpoint Universe or that Harry could return or even that Team Flash could spend some time on Earth 2.

BLACK SIRRRRENNNNNNNNN WOOOOOOO!

 

[Sephzilla]

Tom Cavanaugh confirmed as a regular for season 3:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/05/27/tom-cavanagh-confirmed-to-be-returning-as-series-regular-for-the/

WHICH WELLS, THOUGH!?

Earth-2 Wells? Wellsobard? Earth-1 Wells?

The Flash S3 |OT| CRISIS ON INFINITE WELLS

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

WHICH WELLS, THOUGH!?

Earth-2 Wells? Wellsobard? Earth-1 Wells?

The Flash S3 |OT| CRISIS ON INFINITE WELLS

The Flash S3 |OT| It Was Me, Barry. But Which Me Was It?

 

[Joni]

Start with real Earth 1 Wells to help Barry escape Flashpoint, have Earth 2 Wells be back after.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Tom Cavanaugh confirmed as a regular for season 3:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/05/27/tom-cavanagh-confirmed-to-be-returning-as-series-regular-for-the/

Earth 3 Wells!

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Start with real Earth 1 Wells to help Barry escape Flashpoint, have Earth 2 Wells be back after.

Yeah, his support crew in the Flashpoint Universe should be Earth 1 Wells, Robert Queen Arrow and Citizen Cold. And saving his mother should cost Joe's life.

 

[strafer]

Tom Cavanaugh confirmed as a regular for season 3:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/05/27/tom-cavanagh-confirmed-to-be-returning-as-series-regular-for-the/

Like they will get rid of the best thing about the show. Tom is the best.

 

[Maddocks]

Have to love Tom Cavanagh the man is cast as Wells, then told hes Eobard, then told he is earth 2 Wells, now he is being told he's back to regular Wells. Each one acting different with different motivations and manners. My hat is off to him.

 

[morningbus]

Each season should be a different universe's Wells.

 

[Sephzilla]

Each season should be a different universe's Wells.

And then they all slap Barry for messing up the timeline

 

[Maddocks]

Interdimensional Council of Reeds but Interdimensional Council of Wells

 

[Sephzilla]

Have to love Tom Cavanagh the man is cast as Wells, then told hes Eobard, then told he is earth 2 Wells, now he is being told he's back to regular Wells. Each one acting different with different motivations and manners. My hat is off to him.

Yeah, the episode where Flash went back in time to season 1 and we saw Wellsobard again really showed the differences between the two characters Cavanagh plays.

 

[Neoxon]

Tom Cavanaugh confirmed as a regular for season 3:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/05/27/tom-cavanagh-confirmed-to-be-returning-as-series-regular-for-the/

Oh thank god, but which Harrison Wells will he be?

• Flashpoint Earth-1 Harrison Wells
• Eobard Thawne Disguised as Earth-1 Harrison Wells
• Earth-2 Harrison Wells
• Earth-3 Harrison Wells

 

[StopMakingSense]

It will be real Wells in the middle of building the particle accelerator, and Barry needs to convince him to do use whats built to cause the accident. At least for however long the FP storyline is.

 

[Neoxon]

Yeah, his support crew in the Flashpoint Universe should be Earth 1 Wells, Robert Queen Green Arrow, and Citizen Cold. And saving his mother should cost Joe's life.

FTFY

 

[StopMakingSense]

Yeah, his support crew in the Flashpoint Universe should be Earth 1 Wells, Robert Queen Arrow and Citizen Cold. And saving his mother should cost Joe's life.

Yeah FP Joe will have to die at some point.

 

[PreFire]

Damn I loved the Dynamic between E2 Wells and Cisco. They had a good vibe.. Their scenes together were hilarious. When Barry came back from the speedforce, and they were trying to explain to him what had happened, I was cracking up the entire time.

No surprise he's back. Can't wait to see which Wells or Thawne he will play.

If anyone deserves an award (non-kids award) on flash, it's Tom. Jesse Martin comes close second

 

[Volimar]

Maybe it's just me, but I found the comic ending with the letter more powerful than the animated movie. I think Ollie has the chops for it.

 

[Joni]

Oh thank god, but which Harrison Wells will he be?

• Flashpoint Earth-1 Harrison Wells
• Eobard Thawne Disguised as Earth-1 Harrison Wells
• Earth-2 Harrison Wells
• Earth-3 Harrison Wells

Hobo Earth-4 Wells, which explains why nobody knows him there.

 

[the_firewithin]

More wells/ cisco bro time will be good