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The Formula 1 2013 Season |OT| End of the Webber Era
- Thread starter Leunam
- Start date
Vettel and Hamilton are the two fastest qualifiers in the sport.
Vettel outqualified Webber who prior to his pairing with Vettel was known as a qualifying specialist.
Vettel was better than Webber at tire management but not necessarily wheel to wheel but has been getting much stronger in wheel to wheel lately.
Kimi isn't as strong in qualifying, has wonderful wheel to wheel skill, and seems to be wonderful with tire management. Kimi also doesn't use the simulator at all.
My vote is Vettel with prep time.
http://grandprix247.com/2012/02/23/rosberg-says-webber-tougher-than-schumi-as-teammate/
http://magnus.myftp.org/markwebberqualifying.htm
Vettel outqualified Webber who prior to his pairing with Vettel was known as a qualifying specialist.
Vettel was better than Webber at tire management but not necessarily wheel to wheel but has been getting much stronger in wheel to wheel lately.
Kimi isn't as strong in qualifying, has wonderful wheel to wheel skill, and seems to be wonderful with tire management. Kimi also doesn't use the simulator at all.
My vote is Vettel with prep time.
http://grandprix247.com/2012/02/23/rosberg-says-webber-tougher-than-schumi-as-teammate/
http://magnus.myftp.org/markwebberqualifying.htm
Stomp someone who was previously known as a qualifying specialist.
sportzhead
Member
Why does Vettel get so much hate? Not really a fan of his, but he can be pretty funny sometimes, and his skill on the track is really starting to make the sport boring. Three in a row is a real accomplishment. And he doesn't just win, he seems to push that Red Bull to the limit.
And what the hell is Red Bull doing to get that car to perform like it does on the opening lap?
And what the hell is Red Bull doing to get that car to perform like it does on the opening lap?
sportzhead
Member
Qualifying is on tape delay. 11am Saturday afternoon here in the west coast on NBC Sports.
They made a pact with the devil. For every second Mark Webber loses in a start the other car gains.
You answered your own question. But again, I'd rather see him drive off to a 15 second win than barely be infront of second. That way the TV crew can focus on the fights for positions back in the field and only show him when he crosses the finish line.
It should be Live on CNBC at least. Ah well wasn't going to wake up for qualifying anyways, but I'll be up for the race. Yay for more 3:30 AM races.
Big Takeover
Member
One thing's for sure, the return of testing is really going to help guys switching teams. It's a tall order to have to compete with a skilled established driver as your new teammate, and the in-season testing ban only made it more difficult.
Kimi's a wildcard though because his setup style is unique. I think he's always got a chance because he operates in area that no one else goes to. Vettel and his engineers have a big bag of setup tricks that they can use to beat a teammate on a similar or "normal" setup, but Kimi would go down a different road altogether. I think he finds things that only he can utilize because of it.
Hammer24, so the word is that Mercedes engine will be the one for 2014 season?
Matt Morris, ex Sauber chief designer is joining Mclaren
And major LOL at Lewis, looking nervous as pumpkin before Red Arrows flight (FB link)
Matt Morris, ex Sauber chief designer is joining Mclaren
And major LOL at Lewis, looking nervous as pumpkin before Red Arrows flight (FB link)
sportzhead
Member
That is why
I see.
I hope there is some actual racing this week and not the same old save your tires bs, pass only when the guy ahead is on old tires, or pass when using DRS. That is what is making these races so predictable. There is very little one on one and pack of three or more cars racing anymore. The most entertaining driver has been Perez, and most of his moves have been on his own teammate.
The sweat gets in my mustache.
High five Shaneus.
Webber for Le Mans 2014 victory.
Its all incredibly early. But the Renault people themselves don´t seem to spread confidence right now.
One more technical change for next year:
New rules for the exhaust system
- only one end pipe
- which has to end well behind the rear axle (in a very small window between 170 and 180mm behind the middle of the axle)
- max 10mm away from the middle line of the car
- max of 5° turn upwards
- the zone behind is forbidden to put anything there
- which means it wont give the aerodynamic help it does right now, as there will be no more blown diffusor
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
Simply put, that's not true.
Yup.
The exhaust rules just close one of the big money drivers in the current car development. The big teams bring two to three different and new coanda versions to every race weekend. They invest millions of dollars into simulation modules for their wind tunnels to develop these coanda solutions. Every millimeter of change in the exhaust system of the current cars brings a fully different picture to the aerodynamics of the rear of the car.
While a good coanda is estimated to bring a full second per lap, in the end its a very silly development - it brings absolutely nothing that could be adapted to street cars.
Oh, one more technical news:
From next year on teams are allowed to use some kind of ABS system for the rear axle only. This is to address problems with charging the KERS batteries, to give them a more smooth flow of charging current.
Calling it now, it will be exploited followed by another year of whinging.
Vettel entering into Struggletown. Population: 1.
AFAIK only the harder compound got the more-glue treatment.
The problem comes in that they have restricted the development process so much, you can only gain by spending a lot of money on small details. If the rules were more open you may find smaller teams able to make bigger leaps by being clever, rather than just the big teams throwing simulation hours at a problem.
How would that work? Wouldn´t the big teams simply spend a lot of money on "big details"?
I mean really free design. If the design was more free, a team with a clever engineer but a smaller testing budget might be bale to come up with some new concepts. What was the last new concept in a Formula One car that was not a result of trying to get around the rule on moveable aero or mandated by the FIA?
The form of the Formula One car has evolved to a point where the gains to be made are incredibly small. With more open rules leaps in conceptual designs may be possible. Yeah, designs would probably still converge on whatever was the most successful design in the previous season, but if two solutions to a problem offered similar results we would see more design variation.
Every time there is innovation, the rules get changed to ban the innovation.
Edit: A well regulated spending cap would also be something I advocate.
You can´t come up with a new concept, if you have no means to test it properly. It´d be a shot in the dark, that could basically ruin your (small) team in one go. The small guys are the ones that have to tread most conservatively - simply because they don´t have the money.
Hasn´t this always been the case? You need some rules, otherwise you wouldn´t have a competitive sport. And every single innovation, right from Merc scraping off the paint creating the silver arrows, has come by way of trying to get around the rules.
I personally don´t believe this. You´d still need to copy the competitors solution, even if its just to compare it to yours. All this would be HUGE cost drivers.
If its not really an innovation (like the blown diffusor, that is basically not good for anything), that's a good thing. I believe in trickle down development. Look at active suspensions, ABS systems etc. that were developed in F1 and are now in everydays cars.
Yes sir, here we agree!
Of course you would still need testing, but it would reduce the need for iterative testing of similar concepts 6000 times to find a slightly smother outflow of gasses to enhance the incredibly restricted design parameters of the aero devices.
I mean a really free set of rules. Give them a box for the car to fit into a fixed amount of fuel to use for the race and qualy, crash tests and strengtth standards forth the cockpit, fuel system etc, stick the cars in a wind tunnel at various speeds to measure downforce, mandate a maximum down force to reduce the impact on following cars, and let them go. Cars too fast? Give them less fuel. Cars disturbing the air too much for the cars behind? Reduce the downforce allowance.
The very worst thing that would happen is nothing.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
Bollocks. Look at Lotus and Force India (and last year, Williams and Sauber). They're operating on a pittance compared to the top teams. Those development restrictions are keeping those teams alive, let alone allowing them to remain competitive.
I completely agree with you! Everything you said is exactly what I've been wishing for for several years now.
Maybe you missed the budget cap I would like as well? :/ But I also think you are not seeing the alternative development processes that would be possible. At the moment the only way top advance is spending man years in a sim refining aero. There is not enough room for new suspension concepts, new gearbox concepts etc that would reduce the need for such resource intensive testing for such small gains.
Who was the last team that came up from back marker status without spending huge money? You need massive money to ever advance, even with all the restrictions.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
You can stream it on the NBC Sports website.
KillerMan91
Member
Interesting to see has the new updates made Lotus quicker in cold conditions.
Webber .6 down on primes. RBR are in the hunt.