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[Hammer24]

Lawyer Sebastien Bernard is now pleading on behalf of the FIA:
- he says technical directives are no rules in themselves, but are explanations of the rules, so everyone understand the rules the same
- that's the only way to make sure all teams are treated the same
- every team adhered to the directions by FIA regarding the fuel flow, only RBR didn´t
- Why does RBR think they can take another road?
- RBR has to prove that the sensor gave unreliable data, not the other way around
- When you decide to ignore the referee, you better show very good proof the sensor didn´t work right. And they didn´t.
- Their "so called proof" convinced no one.
- neither a full restart of all onboard electronics, nor using a new sensor in MAL changed the readings from the sensors. This shows how reliable and constant the readings are. The small changes RBR is talking about are due to changes in temperature.
- using the sensor readouts as a base, RIC has been constantly over the limit with and without the offset factor.

 

[Orgun]

Lawyer Sebastien Bernard is now pleading on behalf of the FIA:
- he says technical directives are no rules in themselves, but are explanations of the rules, so everyone understand the rules the same
- that's the only way to make sure all teams are treated the same
- every team adhered to the directions by FIA regarding the fuel flow, only RBR didn´t
- Why does RBR think they can take another road?
- RBR has to prove that the sensor gave unreliable data, not the other way around
- When you decide to ignore the referee, you better show very good proof the sensor didn´t work right. And they didn´t.
- Their "so called proof" convinced no one.
- neither a full restart of all onboard electronics, nor using a new sensor in MAL changed the readings from the sensors. This shows how reliable and constant the readings are. The small changes RBR is talking about are due to changes in temperature.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I can smell a further reprimand for rb coming out of this you know, probably a hefty fine. The fia so not take kindly to these sort of appeals!

 

[Hammer24]

- RBR says, they doubt the FIA is the only one to say what method to use via technical directive - and use technical directives in their argument. I say: you can´t cherry pick! If you think some td´s are relevant, then all are.

 

[Dilly]

Time's up.

 

[Shaneus]

RBR are fucked. I went into this hoping RIC might be okay, but as much as I love the kid, the team are just coming off like entitled arseholes at the moment.

I wonder if Danny knew of any of this over the weekend?

 

[Hammer24]

To add to the fun, now The Pitbull has his say:
- RBR broke § 12.1.1 c) to i) by ignoring the FIA
- thus they went against fair competition
- he compares this to BAR gas incident 2005, when the team got suspended for three races (remember when RBR wanted MER to get a bigger fine for tyre testing? payback´s a bitch...)
- BAR tried to show they are not guilty using their own math model, just like RBR does now
- this case now is even worse than BAR 2005, as RBR ignored FIA on purpose
- Harris thus proposes a bigger fine for RBR. They should be put on probation, being banned if they do it again
- only this would deter RBR from doing it again

 

[Hammer24]

And that's it folks.
Ruling comes "at the latest" by Tuesday the 15th (but also possible later today). Full explanatory statement of the ruling by the end of this week.

 

[dubc35]

It should be interesting. Thanks for all the updates!

Shocked Dom is out at Ferrari, never thought I would see the day.

 

[LicenceToK1ll]

Who is this Pitbull Harris guy?

He seems to take pleasure out of fucking RBR and pushing an agenda.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Who is this Pitbull Harris guy?

He seems to take pleasure out of fucking RBR and pushing an agenda.

Lawyer for the prosecution, its his job to push an agenda, or a side of the story anyway.

 

[Hammer24]

Who is this Pitbull Harris guy?

He seems to take pleasure out of fucking RBR and pushing an agenda.

He´s MER goto lawyer for a couple of years now. Defended them in the tyre testing saga.

 

[AndyD]

Seems clear cut.

Now to see whether RBR gets heavy probation or just a fine.

 

[Hammer24]

I´m sorry for RIC, as I think he really drove brilliantly. Maybe they could just suspend Horner for a couple of races

Spoiler

(LOL, as if that´d happen)

 

[Juicy Bob]

I'd actually like to see Domenicali at another team - although I don't ever see that happening. I think he comes across as quite a likeable guy - except after that call he made at Hockenheim 2010 - and I would miss seeing him around the pits like I do Ross Brawn.

 

[DBT85]

Who is this Pitbull Harris guy?

He seems to take pleasure out of fucking RBR and pushing an agenda.

If I ever needed a lawyer I'd want him/her to fuck the other side and push an agenda.

From what I've seen here RBRs case wasn't as strong as they thought.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

I'd actually like to see Domenicali at another team - although I don't ever see that happening. I think he comes across as quite a likeable guy - except after that call he made at Hockenheim 2010 - and I would miss seeing him around the pits like I do Ross Brawn.

Yeah, he has such a great personality. Especially when he's communicating with the press.

 

[Draconian]

Good to see RBR was wasting everyone's time with this appeal.

 

[Hammer24]

Yeah, he has such a great personality. Especially when he's communicating with the press.

He always instilled a feeling of compassion in me. How can one not fall for his kicked-dog-look?
Well, two new teams are coming - they could snatch him up if they want some F1 experience.

 

[LicenceToK1ll]

He´s MER goto lawyer for a couple of years now. Defended them in the tyre testing saga.

Well that explains a lot, he had a bit of a grudge to settle.

But i do believe RBR should be punished their case wasnt nearly as strong as they wanted everyone to believe it was.

 

[Hammer24]

But i do believe RBR should be punished their case wasnt nearly as strong as they wanted everyone to believe it was.

I reread everything, and I think it boils down to this:
- spike in the FF readings in Melbourne FP
--> IIRC that's when the FIA decided to lengthen the amount of time between readings, so they get a better average erasing those spikes (sensor now only gives an alert, when the FF amount has been broken several times in succession
- I guess they later found another spike in telemetry data for lap 37, thinking that´d be enough to show the sensor to be faulty, bringing Horner to making the comment he did
--> but they argued all day this spike was the opening for an unexplained ramping up of FF readings. Yet they didn´t show this. It was easy for the FIA to show it to be a single spike, with readings going back to the average before.
I think they made a big mistake here. They didn´t force the FIA to explain or even speculate on the nature of the spike; but concentrated on an argument (ramping up) which was easily to be dismissed. So instead of bringing uncertainty over the FIA data, they brought uncertainty over their own model.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Yep, massive own goal. Not sure what the hell they were thinking to be honest.

 

[Hammer24]

Yep, massive own goal. Not sure what the hell they were thinking to be honest.

Its even more baffling when you go over Malek´s and Lazarus´ pleadings, where they only repeat points made well before todays hearing, in no way talking about a single thing that came up today. The 15min break actually took 45mins, they should at least have been able to use some stuff Lom brought up.
If I were RBR, I´d fire these guys on the spot.


Edit:
Dutch Patriot
Banned

Dammit! What did you do now, silly?

 

[LicenceToK1ll]

Yeah i honestly thought they would have some super clever technical explanation of why the FFS is completely broken. But there was none of that instead only arrogance.

edit:

Jeremy Renner confirmed as Ferrari teamboss:

 

[AndyD]

Yeah i honestly thought they would have some super clever technical explanation of why the FFS is completely broken. But there was none of that instead only arrogance.

Not to mention they started ignoring the directive and sensor after a single issue in practice and then tried to retroactively support their argument with a single anomaly on lap 37 and entirely unrelated Bahrain data. Had they waited until after lap 37 and then said "it's a pattern" it may sound a little different.

The worst part to me is their argument that they are using a more accurate proprietary algorithm instead, but cannot provide the underlying data for its accuracy to be verified.

 

[marvelharvey]

It took me a couple of reads until I realised you guys were saying Fuel Flow Sensor and not randomly saying For Fuck's Sake

 

[Hammer24]

It took me a couple of reads until I realised you guys were saying Fuel Flow Sensor and not randomly saying For Fuck's Sake

NeoGAF, now with more reading comprehension!

Spoiler

Sorry for the confusion, English is not my first language.

 

[Hasney]

It took me a couple of reads until I realised you guys were saying Fuel Flow Sensor and not randomly saying For Fuck's Sake

Well I'm sure Horner is saying the latter now.

 

[DrM]

I think that Brawn is not crazy enough to take over Ferrari in current state. Flavio, on the other hand...

 

[nny]

You guys can't really believe that an issue with sensor 73 on lap 37 is a coincidence...this is clearly a ploy against RBR.

 

[DrM]

Bob Bell leaving Mercedes in november 'to pursue new challenges outside the company'

 

[Jibbed]

Bob Bell leaving Mercedes 'to pursue new challenges outside the company'

The Ferrari door shut almost instantly. Either that was a miscalculation or he'll soon find his feet elsewhere in the paddock.

 

[mclem]

You guys can't really believe that an issue with sensor 73 on lap 37 is a coincidence...this is clearly a ploy against RBR.

Reeeeed Bull!
Red bull, get ready your fight is fought
Get into suits and hit the court,
Red bull, get moving, it's not too far,
It's time to answer stuff 'bout your car
Red bull, you never know what you'll see
When you read sensor with the seven three.

Never seen nothing, no, not like this fuel
Never been no, no way not over-flow'n.
Never seen no fuel no flow similar
Not like seventy three

Red bull, get ready your fight is fought
Get into suits and hit the court,
Lawsuits that we wanna see
So get flow from seventy three
Get flow from seventy three
Red bull, get flow from seventy three....

 

[nature boy]

So the new guy at Ferrari has no motorsport experience and was chosen because he knows how Maranello works.

Brilliant.

 

[DrM]

The Ferrari door shut almost instantly. Either that was a miscalculation or he'll soon find his feet elsewhere in the paddock.

Rumored to be candidate for Mclaren

 

[TCRS]

BMW and Cosworth making a comeback?

BMW to follow Honda back into F1?

The economic downturn wrought devastating effects on motor racing. Formula One alone lost half its engine suppliers when Honda left at the end of the 2008 season, and both BMW and Toyota followed at the end of 2009. But things are looking up again. Cosworth may have dropped out this season, reducing the engine suppliers to three: Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes, the latter of which admits that it may have left had the engine formula not changed. But Mercedes has stayed and is dominating the championship. Honda is coming back next season. And word around the paddock is it may not be the only one.

According to Giancarlo Minardi – founder of the team now known as Scuderia Toro Rosso – BMW engineers have been conspicuously spotted lately at F1 test sessions and grands prix, lending to speculation that the new engine regulations may entice the Bavarian automaker back into the series. According to Minardi, BMW's marketing division is pushing for the automaker's return to F1, with the board slated to make a decision in May. BMW would be more likely to consider an engine-supply deal rather than taking a team over like it had with Sauber, but with which team or teams it might collaborate remains a big question mark at this point.

As if that's not enough, Ford is said to be considering taking over Cosworth's aborted V6 turbo engine program to take both outfits back into the sport as well. Cosworth supplied F1 engines under the Ford banner for years, but returned under its own name for four seasons from 2010 through 2013 before shuttering its program to develop an engine to meet the new regulations adopted this season.

With Honda, BMW and Ford back on the grid, F1 would be back up to six engine suppliers like it had been in the 2008 season that marked the highest level of participation from automakers in decades.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/14/bmw-ford-f1-return-rumors/

 

[Fantomex]

All or nothing for Ferrari, might as well I guess.

 

[massivekettle]

Rumored to be candidate for Mclaren

Indeed...

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 14m
According to our sources, Bob Bell is set to join McLaren-Honda as Technical Director in 2015. #F1 #Formula1

Prodromou + Bell for 2015. They probably won't have much to say about the 2015 car, but the 2016 car should be their "first" at McLaren-Honda.

As for Mercedes, this was bound to happen given that he was passed up for promotion (with the hiring of Lowe).

 

[brotkasten]

Ferrari should just take the rest of the year off to prepare for the next season. It's the only way for sure.

 

[DrM]

I highly doubt that Brawn will once again return to F1. He had enough.

Ferrari should just take the rest of the year off to prepare for the next season. It's the only way for sure.

They will have to redo PU in general during winter break, so it is still unknown, how new PU will perform.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Indeed...



Prodromou + Bell for 2015. They probably won't have much to say about the 2015 car, but the 2016 car should be their "first" at McLaren-Honda.

As for Mercedes, this was bound to happen given that he was passed up for promotion (with the hiring of Lowe).

Yeah 2016 is shaping up to be a good year for McLaren, hopefully. Bell sounds like a good hire, if true!

 

[avaya]

Mercedes channeling that Todt-Era Ferrari. If it was Todt-era Ferrari Horner's career would be over, crushed, Red Bull would be DQ'ed from the championship AND THEN they would start to get to work on the drivers and what remains of the team. God I miss that Ferrari. God-tier politics...the fucking of McLaren in 2007 was so utterly satisfying.

Hope Red Bull get shat on from a great height, no suspended sentence, straight up ban. They say they'd have lost a second if they complied....hmmm they gained a second from testing to Australia.

As for the new Ferrari TP....what a joke. Destined for failure. You need a team manager experienced in running a race team and getting the best out of technical people. That is someone like Todt. Someone like Ross. Not some sales mong.

 

[Massa]

I'd assume the sales mong is just a puppet for LdM.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Where are you getting that one second from avaya? Merc and RB today said 4 tenths :S

 

[Fantomex]

I wonder if Alonso will just bolt for McLaren now. Now that even Kimi is proving this car plain sucks.

 

[massivekettle]

I wonder if Alonso will just bolt for McLaren now. Now that even Kimi is proving this car plain sucks.

No guarantees that Honda's PU will be good, though. Ferrari, despite their shitty PU, has a much, much better chassis than McLaren at the moment. Ferrari, despite current events, is the safer bet. Also, one has to consider how tied he is to Santander (who is about to renew/extend/increase their sponsorship with Ferrari).

My guess is that he will stay put.

 

[Zeknurn]

I wonder if Alonso will just bolt for McLaren now. Now that even Kimi is proving this car plain sucks.

With the rumours that McLaren is thinking about replacing Button with Vandoorne for next season I think Alonso's only choice is to stay at Ferrari (or retire).

 

[NHale]

Bob Bell leaving Mercedes in november 'to pursue new challenges outside the company'

It's happening.gif

Briatore-Alonso-Bell-Allison joining forces again after their glorious years at Renault. Finally Ferrari will hire competent people after hiring clowns like Aldo Costa, Pat Fry, Nicholas Tombazis and Stefano Domenicali.

Ferrari is finally saved*

Spoiler

*until Spain 2016.

No guarantees that Honda's PU will be good, though. Ferrari, despite their shitty PU, has a much, much better chassis than McLaren at the moment. Ferrari, despite current events, is the safer bet. Also, one has to consider how tied he is to Santander (who is about to renew/extend/increase their sponsorship with Ferrari).

My guess is that he will stay put.

Botin is also a very close friend.....of Ron Dennis. But I don't think Santander will play a role in this. The rumors say Alonso was a demand made by Honda and he will be fully paid by them.

I'm also almost certain Alonso already has a signed deal with McLaren-Honda. The fallout happened last year when he publicly criticized the team and led to LdM hiring Kimi instead of following the promise that was done to Hulkenberg's camp. Now we have the savior of the nation comments and an interesting disinterest about this season. Also why would his manager go to Japan 2 times last September?

 

[Diablo Rosso]

It's happening.gif

Briatore-Alonso-Bell-Allison joining forces again after their glorious years at Renault. Finally Ferrari will hire competent people after hiring clowns like Aldo Costa, Pat Fry, Nicholas Tombazis and Stefano Domenicali.

Ferrari is finally saved*

Spoiler

*until Spain 2016.

Botin is also a very close friend.....of Ron Dennis. But I don't think Santander will play a role in this. The rumors say Alonso was a demand made by Honda and he will be fully paid by them.

I'm also almost certain Alonso already has a signed deal with McLaren-Honda. The fallout happened last year when he publicly criticized the team and led to LdM hiring Kimi instead of following the promise that was done to Hulkenberg's camp. Now we have the savior of the nation comments and an interesting disinterest about this season. Also why would his manager go to Japan 2 times last September?

Eddie Jordan said Alonso is going back to McLaren and he's usually right about this sort of thing. I didn't think it was ever possible but with Kimi back at Ferrari, I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[Igo]

Mercedes channeling that Todt-Era Ferrari. If it was Todt-era Ferrari Horner's career would be over, crushed, Red Bull would be DQ'ed from the championship AND THEN they would start to get to work on the drivers and what remains of the team. God I miss that Ferrari. God-tier politics...the fucking of McLaren in 2007 was so utterly satisfying.

Hope Red Bull get shat on from a great height, no suspended sentence, straight up ban. They say they'd have lost a second if they complied....hmmm they gained a second from testing to Australia.

Please god no. F1 was a complete farce back then. No consistency and you were always left scratching your head wondering what the fuck just happened. DQ + fine and lets get the fuck on with the rest of the season.