Christopher
Member
Did anyone even read? It said Hilary had no interest in meeting or obtaining an endorsement.
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The Fraternal Order of Police endorses Donald Trump for President
- Thread starter Cerium
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In past elections they have sometimes simply not endorsed anyone at all.
therealjay
Neo Member
That's completely missing the point and not what I said. What I said is that a permanent underclass who's only way up is to sell drugs is going to have major clashes with a police force who's near sole purpose in a lot of these cities is to make arrests for narcotics.
It's not the cops, it's the laws. People need to stop being so fucking simple when they think about this shit.
If a person really thinks the police union is a white supremacist group then they're not understanding the complexity of the situation. Point blank.
And what do you mean receipts? I've spent nearly my entire life in Baltimore and the county. It's a city where open air drug markets exist. Police chase them off the corners. They come back. Rival groups fight for the corners. Police chase them off. They come back. With a bunch of shootings on all side happening constantly. The murder rate is higher now then it was when they were filming the wire.
Literally the problem with America period. People always think things are simple. Police = Racist. Fucking dumb. My fellow liberals are aware of the war on drugs and it's evils and somehow compartmentalize it's effect on the police force when talking about police violence. I really don't get it.
Link
The Autumn Wind
They're as thin-skinned as Donald Trump. Any criticism = "fuck the police" to them.
Nothing but petty thugs.
Well, in your city's case, it's completely true.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-systemic-racism-in-baltimores-police-force/2016/08/10/86ce448a-5f3f-11e6-9d2f-b1a3564181a1_story.html?utm_term=.ad9ab986a76a
SolidSnakex
Member
I think it's common to say that it's a few bad apples. At this point i'd say that it's a bit more than just a few. I think this moment with the NYPD was very telling
It's a shot of the NYPD turning their backs on Mayor de Blasio. With one man facing him. Now do I think all of those people are bad apples? Of course not. But it represents a major issue when it comes to police. Primarily that they stick together even when they shouldn't. I'll also point you to this conversation
https://twitter.com/HOT97/status/750711077265170432
In case you can't watch/listen to it, it's a host asking a police officer if the shooting of Alton Sterling looks bad. He doesn't ask if he thinks he's guilty, he just simply wants to know if it looks bad. The cops response is to pause and stutter. This causes the host to point out that this is why the public doesn't trust cops. Because they never want to admit that they did something wrong. And it really hits the nail on the head. Police want the public to put blind trust in them, but they rarely ever can admit that they've done something wrong. We're apparently supposed to let them do whatever the hell they want without ever questioning them or without having anyone within the force question them.
Then they should find a new profession. It's also dangerous to be a race car driver, but you can't become one and then decide that you don't want to drive fast. You know what you're getting yourself into if you become a police officer. It's obviously a very dangerous job. But it's not the job for you if you're someone that's jumpy under stressful situations.
There was a recent story about a cop that was fired because he didn't shoot a man. He was accused of putting other cops in danger. But the reason he didn't shoot him was because he noticed that the man was trying to commit suicide by cop and so he was trying to talk him down even though the guy had a gun. Two other officers would eventually shoot him dead. It should also be pointed out that they'd later learn that the guy he had wasn't actually loaded. But what's of particular note is that the officer that was fired is a military veteran. Someone in that thread made a great comment by saying "So many cops want military-style power but don't have military-style discipline.". That's not to say that the military is perfect. But the training that they're put through gives them a completely different mindset compared to your average cop. It's a level of training and discipline that police seem to be lacking to a great degree. Which likely leads to these situations where the moment they feel uneasy their first response is to empty a clip.
Why would that make a difference? Nobody's forcing them to endorse anyone. Hell, they could've endorsed Hillary anyway, even if she didn't seek their endorsement. Instead they chose to endorse Trump, and are being criticized for that choice.
Byakuya769
Member
Black people being the actual problem is super obvious. Have you listened to rap music!?! My gosh!
Psychoward
Banned
Is it even legal for police unions to publicly support political candidates?
MagnaderAlpha
Member
I think it's common to say that it's a few bad apples. At this point i'd say that it's a bit more than just a few. I think this moment with the NYPD was very telling
It's a shot of the NYPD turning their backs on Mayor de Blasio. With one man facing him. Now do I think all of those people are bad apples? Of course not. But it represents a major issue when it comes to police. Primarily that they stick together even when they shouldn't. I'll also point you to this conversation
https://twitter.com/HOT97/status/750711077265170432
In case you can't watch/listen to it, it's a host asking a police officer if the shooting of Alton Sterling looks bad. He doesn't ask if he thinks he's guilty, he just simply wants to know if it looks bad. The cops response is to pause and stutter. This causes the host to point out that this is why the public doesn't trust cops. Because they never want to admit that they did something wrong. And it really hits the nail on the head. Police want the public to put blind trust in them, but they rarely ever can admit that they've done something wrong. We're apparently supposed to let them do whatever the hell they want without ever questioning them or without having anyone within the force question them.
Then they should find a new profession. It's also dangerous to be a race car driver, but you can't become one and then decide that you don't want to drive fast. You know what you're getting yourself into if you become a police officer. It's obviously a very dangerous job. But it's not the job for you if you're someone that's jumpy under stressful situations.
There was a recent story about a cop that was fired because he didn't shoot a man. He was accused of putting other cops in danger. But the reason he didn't shoot him was because he noticed that the man was trying to commit suicide by cop and so he was trying to talk him down even though the guy had a gun. Two other officers would eventually shoot him dead. It should also be pointed out that they'd later learn that the guy he had wasn't actually loaded. But what's of particular note is that the officer that was fired is a military veteran. Someone in that thread made a great comment by saying "So many cops want military-style power but don't have military-style discipline.". That's not to say that the military is perfect. But the training that they're put through gives them a completely different mindset compared to your average cop. It's a level of training and discipline that police seem to be lacking to a great degree. Which likely leads to these situations where the moment they feel uneasy their first response is to empty a clip.
Loyalty over justice, equality and generally "doing the right thing" tends to always lead mankind down the wrong path. It leads to a lot of people getting away with shit, and a lot of injustice in the world.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
so what's their gang sign?
This is why police are supporting trump. Yes, some are racist, but others see a candidate who sympathizes with the very difficult job they have and the problems with public perception that are affecting that job.
I'm a staunch liberal and most assuredly not an all lives / blue lives idiot like some are, but painting entire groups with such a broad brush gets no one anywhere. I'm really sick of people on GAF doing drive by posts like this on any topic. It brings down the standard of discourse and perpetuates the simplistic thinking that is stifling race and other relations in America.
Underrated burn.
victreeb3l
Member
Unsurprised but still pretty damn disgusting.
Banana Aeon
Member
Literally every single time someone defends the police, they deflect the blame on black people.
Makes you think...
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Racist Police Fucks said:
Hitler was a leader.
The fucks is your point?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Great, you're a liberal. You just happen to be one who downplays the scope of institutionalized racism and the willful ignorance it takes to throw in with Trump who, aside from anything else, has no political experience or tangible policies.
What brings down the standard of discourse is the idea that everyone's opinions are valid and necessary even when those opinions are grossly uninformed and/or clung to regardless of a LOT of facts. It's no one's duty to protect the feelings of people like that.
The Punisher skull, apparently! They love that one.
It's still Fuck the (Fraternal Order of) Police.
I don't paint police with one brush, but Police Unions are an embarrassment. And ironically pretty anti-union*.
* any union that isn't the police union.
King Tubby
Member
Uh, he's blaming the war on drugs. He's deflecting the blame onto the laws.
People need to stop taking us vs them positions and actually listen to each other. It's not an awful point. The war on drugs is a huge factor in institutionalized racism, disproportionate enforcement and poverty.
kame-sennin
Member
^ I wish we could get back to the good ole days before the drug war when cops were so nice to black people.
Everyone knows how hard their job is. They choose to do it. The reason they don't have respect is because they don't earn it, unlike veterans who literally sign up to face death and take it on.
You are saying not all cops. If you think people are saying fuck guys like that good cop who got fired because he didn't shoot someone. That's your own problem. You're missing the point.
People are saying fuck cops that support an open bigot. That's quit specific, and very much on point.
Must be hard being sick at words. it's hard living with the knowledge that a ton of corrupt cops are out there, and if you're killed, they'll face 0 justice, and the good cops are rooted out. Very hard.
kame-sennin
Member
Yes they are.
Black people can and do work for white supremacist organizations.
PataHikari
Banned
The funniest part of NYPD's tantrum is when they stopped policing for a while and people's lives were actually improved.
King Tubby
Member
I said it's a huge factor, not the only factor. Appreciate the condescension tho
Literally in a city with racist cops, and is trying to say it's not so.
kame-sennin
Member
Here's a thought experiment; without the police, how would it be possible to oppress black people in America?
If you don't think the police are white supremacists, then you probably don't think the U.S. is a white supremacist country. Because white supremacy can only be kept in place with violence. If the police are not the ones carrying out this violence, who is? Why is it that police presence is highest in black and brown communities, but the safest communities have less police and more resources? When Black Lives Matter protests, who is there with guns, dogs, and tear gas? Mass incarceration removes a huge chunk of the black labor force (men aged 18-35) from the community and places them behind bars. For the years that they are in prison, they can not provide for their families. When they get out, they are unemployable. Who keeps this system in place if not the police?
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Thin skinned union supports thin skinned candidate. In other news, water wet, mondays suck.
Jmanunknown
Member
I still cannot fathom why a union and a police union at that would support a Republican candidate considering they hate unions and their policies generally make their jobs a lot less safe.
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
Because the 2nd amendment above all.
Any group or person wanting to give more power and less accountability to the police or maintain their current culture is in favor of racism. Even that good cop you know that wants to lay low and mind his business to get his check, sorry but they're contributing to the problem.
Even then, gun control is in the police favor so they are acting against their own interest if their own safety was actually a concern.
Even then, gun control is in the police favor so they are acting against their own interest if their own safety was actually a concern.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
This seems like it's more about spiting Hillary than promoting Trump, which isn't the best idea.
Trump is an open bigot. Shirley someone at the union knows what trump and his white supremacists endorsements mean to the people they are sworn to protect and serve.
They didn't endorse anyone previously, nor are they forced to.
How do you gloss over that and chalk it up to them just being spiteful, which would be also deplorable for a police union? Does this not draw a line in the sand of what they support.( literally Donald trump? )
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Well, the union is a single-issue entity, and it's short-sighted enough such that Trump's ridiculousness and racist statements/positions probably don't play much of a factor. Trump has met with union officials and spoken favorably of police, while Clinton has been critical and refused to meet. I think they're sending one of those "with us or against us" messages to other politicians by making an example of Clinton. Like you said, I think that this is a poor choice in the long term because of what it conveys to the most at-risk communities they're involved in, which certainly won't make their members' jobs any easier, and they should've abstained from making an endorsement like they did in the last election.
Straight Edge
Member
A bronze badge, Johnny. The bronze take our pride.
I hate that this post jumped out at me, but it's probably because the conservative posts are pretty well countered in this thread.
Without police, there would be no rule of law, and without rule of law, well murders would probably happen more on both sides.
Took me a bit to understand the "kept in place with violence" part, but it makes sense.
Police presence is more prevalent in places where there is more crime.
Safest communities have more resources because of the tax money they can spend that comes from the money that exists in that neighborhood. (at least this is my understanding)
Police tend to bring guns, dogs, and tear gas to every protest that seems big enough that a riot could ensue, or controversial enough that the protest could be attacked. (doesn't mean racism doesn't turn this into innocent people getting hurt, just saying why it's done)
Mass incarceration is a major enemy. It is the tool that's used to stop progression of the black community. Ceasing the war on drugs would at least remove a major excuse, if not THE major excuse, for this though more needs to be done, especially about hire-ability after time is served.
Now, I'm not saying any of this is fair or right. It's not. It's literally unjust. Though, getting rid of the police doesn't make sense, but police reform does.
I believe sheriffs should be put in a higher position than chief of police seeing as they are elected officials. Shouldn't the person who leads the enforcers of our laws have to directly answer to the people they enforce these laws on? I believe this would change the culture of police departments. Though it may lead the chief being a position held by people with less and less experience...
Though, someone may have an answer as to why police forces are not organized this way. I haven't researched that far into it. Maybe I will.
Edit: The OP showing that American police forces are in a bad state goes without saying. Should be a wake up call for some. I wonder if it's out of spite. Like they wanted Hillary to reach out to them, but since she didn't because of the current climate they decided to give her a "fuck you" by backing trump. Still it's the worst of looks in an already bad time.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
I can't speak for other cities, but in Portland the police districts (beats) aren't based on funding because it all comes from the same pot of cash, which is different from how it's done with public schools. Rather, they're based on population density, transportation infrastructure, and the number of incidents that require a police response in recent years. It's re-evaluated every few years by a commission. I know one of the geographers who works with the commission because we work with the same group to get our GIS data.
This is a long way to say the police union shouldn't have done this. I know this, and it's apparent. It's not just a poor choice. It's a message in today's climate of police acting as a mafia with no accountability. I can't imagine that this makes citizens who are victims of their behavior feel safer. Fascist trump meeting with police means that police ae cool with endorsing fascist trump. They didnt do this worried about their image. Like you said, They did this to show us vs them. The them are the people of color in the united states. The them are who trump is polling negative pi with. There is no sidestepping this announcement. Or watering it down with the complexities of politics.
That is what is on the table, support, or Hillary burns, whatever. People are demanding something very academic. Police accountability for when they execute people. Not lower wages, not cancelling health benifits or ot. These are lives that want due process. They are against that. Asking for this is an insult to them. There is no way on earth that a reasonable person can see this and figure it's just a bone they are picking with Hillary. Especially when they've abstained from support in the past.
LucidMomentum
Member
Put your hands up. Maybe they'll not kill you?
I meant public resources as in clean parks, streets, and other nice amenities. Figured police districts were based on crime rate. Density and infrastructure makes sense as well.
Thanks for the info. I wonder how many other cities are done that way.
Fun fact, San Francisco has both a chief of police and a sheriff because the city and county are the same entity. Though the sheriff handles staffing jails and court stuff I believe, while the chief still handles the department forces. (again, my understanding)
DragonSworne
Banned
Can we please dismantle the police force in the United States?
What is your understanding of why the police force was created in the United states of america?
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