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[brianmcdoogle]

The grand jury that opted not to indict Cleveland police officers Timothy Loehmann and Frank Garmback in the shooting death of Tamir Rice never actually took a vote on the matter, according to the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office.

...

After learning and confirming on Jan. 15 that there was no "no-bill notification" on file at the county clerk's office for the Tamir Rice grand jury proceedings, Scene formally requested the document officially showing the decision, however it was reached, and wherever said document might be. We were told that it didn't exist. Employees at both the clerk's and prosecutor's officers were unable to explain the lack of paperwork.

 

[Kyosaiga]

Jesus Christ. The epitome of not giving a fuck.

 

[OctoMan]

What is Scene?

 

[old]

FTA

"But if they don't hold a vote, how do they decide not to hold a vote? And would there be a record of that?” he continued. “It's not like the prosecutor has the power to prevent the grand jury from voting. If there was no vote on a bill in this case, the prosecutor might have influenced that —- he might have said there's no reason to even vote because we all agree, or something — but it's still the grand jury's decision. It ultimately has the power to consider the facts as they're aware of. Because of grand jury secrecy rules, though, we can't know what happened inside that room."

I believe I have the answer. Prosecutors run the room. He decides what the grand jury knows and doesn't know. Perhaps the prosecutor never told the grand jury they had the power to hold a vote despite him not wanting a vote. You can't express a power you don't know you have.

 

[Sàmban]

BUT WHY DO WE STILL HAVE BET AND BLACK HISTORY MONTH

 

[Jarmel]

The prosecutors obviously have to protect the most mistreated group in America, the police.

 

[ezrarh]

Maybe if those protestors hadn't blocked traffic, people would start caring about this.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Making a Murderer is a common situation for minorities.

This is just another instance.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

I'm not even surprised.

 

[Vicetrailia]

But they get mad when we shut down a bridge for multiple hours right.

 

[dan2026]

Making a Murderer is a common situation for minorities.

This is just another instance.

After watching Making a Murderer. The American legal system seems like a corrupt clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Its like roll a dice. On a 4+ you are found innocent. -1 if you are poor, -2 if you are black.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

I really hope that they pass a law that forces a law for a special prosecutor in any police caused death, hell even out of state. People rub each other backs too much.

 

[Malyse]

But they get mad when we shut down a bridge for multiple hours right.

Traffic is more important than your life.

 

[Slayven]

black people ain't shit in america?

I am shocked

 

[Clefargle]

What the fuck man? Blatant

 

[SliceSabre]

The white power in America still hate us.

 

[Earthpainting]

Honestly at this point it's more cost-effective to just skip the trials and juries for these types of cases. If you're going to waste everyone's time and money, you should at least put effort into the charade. If you're not even going to maintain the illusion of justice, it serves no point.

 

[Angelus Errare]

As tragic as this is, make sure you people protest the correct way and stop inconveniencing others you'll never get people to get behind your cause if you don't. Think about MLK and what he would do, he'd be ashamed of the protesting. It also doesn't help that BET is still a thing. Stop complaining about the Oscars and do your own thing if you don't like it.

 

[The Kree]

Let's keep telling black people to work within this system.

 

[Garlador]

As tragic as this is, make sure you people protest the correct way and stop inconveniencing others you'll never get people to get behind your cause if you don't.

Think about MLK and what he would do, he'd be ashamed of the protesting.

He was arrested multiple times for disrupting the peace...

It also doesn't help that BET is still a thing. Stop complaining about the Oscars and do your own thing if you don't like it.

Their own Oscars.

So, like the Oscars, separate... but equal?

 

[gblues]

He was arrested multiple times for disrupting the peace...


Their own Oscars.

So, like the Oscars, separate... but equal?

You need to check the batteries in your sarcasm detector, dude.

 

[Dr.Acula]

"Update III: The prosecutor's office now says that a vote was taken by the grand jury on the issue of whether the shooting was justified. The Washington Post got an explanation from McGinty spokesman Joe Frolik, who also told the paper that while he told Scene his office didn't have a copy of the document in question, someone did find a copy late Wednesday afternoon after this story was originally published."

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

He was arrested multiple times for disrupting the peace...


Their own Oscars.

So, like the Oscars, separate... but equal?

Poor guy

 

[The Kree]

"Update III: The prosecutor's office now says that a vote was taken by the grand jury on the issue of whether the shooting was justified. The Washington Post got an explanation from McGinty spokesman Joe Frolik, who also told the paper that while he told Scene his office didn't have a copy of the document in question, someone did find a copy late Wednesday afternoon after this story was originally published."

Convenient.

 

[border]

Perhaps the prosecutor never told the grand jury they had the power to hold a vote despite him not wanting a vote. You can't express a power you don't know you have.

Grand juries last for a year or more, returning indictments on many cases. This isn't like some first-time group of trial jurors how don't understand procedure. They likely knew that they can and would vote.

 

[Herbs]

As tragic as this is, make sure you people protest the correct way and stop inconveniencing others you'll never get people to get behind your cause if you don't. Think about MLK and what he would do, he'd be ashamed of the protesting. It also doesn't help that BET is still a thing. Stop complaining about the Oscars and do your own thing if you don't like it.

damn

 

[Malyse]

"Update III: The prosecutor's office now says that a vote was taken by the grand jury on the issue of whether the shooting was justified. The Washington Post got an explanation from McGinty spokesman Joe Frolik, who also told the paper that while he told Scene his office didn't have a copy of the document in question, someone did find a copy late Wednesday afternoon after this story was originally published."

 

[NervousXtian]

Well, if you read all the updates it does seem the jury voted on this, or at least signed off on not pressing charges.

I think the original story was jumping to conclusions.

Of course, people will now will think the document is fake.

 

[Enzom21]

Traffic is more important than your life.

Hypothetical lives affected by the traffic are more important to them than black ones.
But yeah, let's be like MLK and not protest on a bridge.

Let's stopped being amazed by any of this.

 

[Malyse]

Well, if you read all the updates it does seem the jury voted on this, or at least signed off on not pressing charges.

I think the original story was jumping to conclusions.

Of course, people will now will think the document is fake.

What do you think of protesters who impede traffic?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I was on a grand jury, and we did all our votes by a show of hands. We didn't record anything.

I don't know what the process is in Ohio, but this could be nothing.

 

[Coolluck]

Well, if you read all the updates it does seem the jury voted on this, or at least signed off on not pressing charges.

I think the original story was jumping to conclusions.

Of course, people will now will think the document is fake.

Why shouldn't they? Saying "Oh! Here it is. It was...it was under this folder the whole time." is suspect. It's not hard to believe they are now just trying to cover their asses after questions were raised.

 

[NervousXtian]

What do you think of protesters who impede traffic?

Would do I think of people who try to bait people in to some shit by making assumptions that everyone is fucking racist on Neogaf? I won't answer that.

The protesters had nothing to do with this exact thread, so stop it already.

I never said one way or the other if I agreed with the findings in this case. If you care to know my feelings it's this:

I think the cop was 100% reckless and put himself into a position where he felt in harms way, it was the cops doing not Rice.

That said, the way the use of force laws work for police that probably makes the cop not criminally liable for the death. Which is BS, but probably according to the law correct.

I do think the cop would be found civilly liable for his reckless behavior.

I think racism is a huge problem in our country and a huge problem in our police departments.

Also if you read the link in the OP you'll see that what was originally reported isn't exactly true.

Why shouldn't they? Saying "Oh! Here it is. It was...it was under this folder the whole time." is suspect. It's not hard to believe they are now just trying to cover their asses after questions were raised.

The jury foreman could easily come out and say he didn't sign that. Not everything has to be a conspiracy. Have you ever worked with the courts? Getting any kind of documents is a pain-in-the-ass.

 

[Crocodile]

Like what in the literal fuck were they even doing then? Like c'mon

It sounds like this isn't grounds for reconvening another grand jury either. Like fuck man. Local prosecutors are just too close to the police to actually hold their feet to the fire when needed.

 

[Kinyou]

Why shouldn't they? Saying "Oh! Here it is. It was...it was under this folder the whole time." is suspect. It's not hard to believe they are now just trying to cover their asses after questions were raised.

Wouldn't the people who were part of the jury likely speak up if the record is made up?

But I agree that the authorities don't really deserve much trust in these instances.

 

[KingV]

As tragic as this is, make sure you people protest the correct way and stop inconveniencing others you'll never get people to get behind your cause if you don't. Think about MLK and what he would do, he'd be ashamed of the protesting. It also doesn't help that BET is still a thing. Stop complaining about the Oscars and do your own thing if you don't like it.

While I am as outraged at the Tamir Rice case as you, there's a reason people contrast BLM with MLK in a partially negative light.

Yes, MLK obviously protested and was arrested for it, but he also spent a fair amount of time talking about righteous anger and loving his enemies. He agonized about losing his temper in tense situations, fearing that it hurt his cause and ultimate goals. He never said he wasnt angry, but he tried to channel that anger in a productive way.

BLM (or at least the part that gets play in the media) seems to have all of the protesting with a nice healthy dose of anti-white resentment. It's like they learned half of the lesson, but forgot about the other just as important part.

When white people say 'Hey BLM isn't really effective at garnering sympathy from me', they are not necessarily saying that they don't agree with BLM's goals, just that maybe standing up in front of 3,000 white people and calling them all racists is not the most effective way of garnering sympathy for your movement.


Also, BLM at some point has to propose actual reforms it would like to see implemented.

(Fyi, this isn't directed at you personally, just the general sentiment that BLM is just like MLK)

 

[Rembrandt]

While I am as outraged at the Tamir Rice case as you, there's a reason people contrast BLM with MLK in a partially negative light.

Yes, MLK obviously protested and was arrested for it, but he also spent a fair amount of time talking about righteous anger and loving his enemies. He agonized about losing his temper in tense situations, fearing that it hurt his cause and ultimate goals. He never said he wasnt angry, but he tried to channel that anger in a productive way.

BLM (or at least the part that gets play in the media) seems to have all of the protesting with a nice healthy dose of anti-white resentment. It's like they learned half of the lesson, but forgot about the other just as important part.

When white people say 'Hey BLM isn't really effective at garnering sympathy from me', they are not necessarily saying that they don't agree with BLM's goals, just that maybe standing up in front of 3,000 white people and calling them all racists is not the most effective way of garnering sympathy for your movement.


Also, BLM at some point has to propose actual reforms it would like to see implemented.

(Fyi, this isn't directed at you personally, just the general sentiment that BLM is just like MLK)

My blackness makes it hard for me to see the antiwhite resentment.

 

[Enzom21]

While I am as outraged at the Tamir Rice case as you, there's a reason people contrast BLM with MLK in a partially negative light.

Yes, MLK obviously protested and was arrested for it, but he also spent a fair amount of time talking about righteous anger and loving his enemies. He agonized about losing his temper in tense situations, fearing that it hurt his cause and ultimate goals. He never said he wasnt angry, but he tried to channel that anger in a productive way.

BLM (or at least the part that gets play in the media) seems to have all of the protesting with a nice healthy dose of anti-white resentment. It's like they learned half of the lesson, but forgot about the other just as important part.

When white people say 'Hey BLM isn't really effective at garnering sympathy from me', they are not necessarily saying that they don't agree with BLM's goals, just that maybe standing up in front of 3,000 white people and calling them all racists is not the most effective way of garnering sympathy for your movement.


Also, BLM at some point has to propose actual reforms it would like to see implemented.

(Fyi, this isn't directed at you personally, just the general sentiment that BLM is just like MLK)

This whole post was more respectability bullshit. "Behave more like the black I like."

 

[The Kree]

While I am as outraged at the Tamir Rice case as you, there's a reason people contrast BLM with MLK in a partially negative light.

Yes, MLK obviously protested and was arrested for it, but he also spent a fair amount of time talking about righteous anger and loving his enemies. He agonized about losing his temper in tense situations, fearing that it hurt his cause and ultimate goals. He never said he wasnt angry, but he tried to channel that anger in a productive way.

BLM (or at least the part that gets play in the media) seems to have all of the protesting with a nice healthy dose of anti-white resentment. It's like they learned half of the lesson, but forgot about the other just as important part.

When white people say 'Hey BLM isn't really effective at garnering sympathy from me', they are not necessarily saying that they don't agree with BLM's goals, just that maybe standing up in front of 3,000 white people and calling them all racists is not the most effective way of garnering sympathy for your movement.


Also, BLM at some point has to propose actual reforms it would like to see implemented.

(Fyi, this isn't directed at you personally, just the general sentiment that BLM is just like MLK)

Respectability politics.

MLK wore suits, spoke eloquently, abstained from violence, and still got shot in the face. What's the lesson there?

 

[Anton Sugar]

As tragic as this is, make sure you people protest the correct way and stop inconveniencing others you'll never get people to get behind your cause if you don't. Think about MLK and what he would do, he'd be ashamed of the protesting. It also doesn't help that BET is still a thing. Stop complaining about the Oscars and do your own thing if you don't like it.

 

[Garlador]

You need to check the batteries in your sarcasm detector, dude.

See, I thought it MIGHT be sarcasm...

... But I just came fresh off of Yahoo News comments. And this stuff was said quite sincerely over and over and over...

... That tends to screw with my ability to detect sarcasm unless it's blatantly obvious.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Going in circles with this BLM shit..every thread.

 

[Malyse]

Would do I think of people who try to bait people in to some shit by making assumptions that everyone is fucking racist on Neogaf? I won't answer that.

The protesters had nothing to do with this exact thread, so stop it already.

I never said one way or the other if I agreed with the findings in this case. If you care to know my feelings it's this:

I think the cop was 100% reckless and put himself into a position where he felt in harms way, it was the cops doing not Rice.

That said, the way the use of force laws work for police that probably makes the cop not criminally liable for the death. Which is BS, but probably according to the law correct.

I do think the cop would be found civilly liable for his reckless behavior.

I think racism is a huge problem in our country and a huge problem in our police departments.

Also if you read the link in the OP you'll see that what was originally reported isn't exactly true.

But, what do you think of protesters impeding traffic?

The fact that you see no connection between the protesters and Tamir Rice and that you so artlessly avoid my question is answer enough in and of itself, so don't feel too pressed to answer.

While I am as outraged at the Tamir Rice case as you, there's a reason people contrast BLM with MLK in a partially negative light.

Yes, MLK obviously protested and was arrested for it, but he also spent a fair amount of time talking about righteous anger and loving his enemies. He agonized about losing his temper in tense situations, fearing that it hurt his cause and ultimate goals. He never said he wasnt angry, but he tried to channel that anger in a productive way.

BLM (or at least the part that gets play in the media) seems to have all of the protesting with a nice healthy dose of anti-white resentment. It's like they learned half of the lesson, but forgot about the other just as important part.

When white people say 'Hey BLM isn't really effective at garnering sympathy from me', they are not necessarily saying that they don't agree with BLM's goals, just that maybe standing up in front of 3,000 white people and calling them all racists is not the most effective way of garnering sympathy for your movement.


Also, BLM at some point has to propose actual reforms it would like to see implemented.

(Fyi, this isn't directed at you personally, just the general sentiment that BLM is just like MLK)

Huh.

Whites, it must frankly be said, are not putting in a similar mass effort to reeducate themselves out of their racial ignorance. It is an aspect of their sense of superiority that the white people of America believe they have so little to learn. The reality of substantial investment to assist Negroes into the twentieth century, adjusting to Negro neighbors and genuine school integration, is still a nightmare for all too many white Americans. White America would have liked to believe that in the past ten years a mechanism had somehow been created that needed only orderly and smooth tending for the painless accomplishment of change. Yet this is precisely what has not been achieved. [….] These are the deepest causes for contemporary abrasions between the races. Loose and easy language about equality, resonant resolutions about brotherhood fall pleasantly on the ear, but for the Negro there is a credibility gap he cannot overlook. He remembers that with each modest advance the white population promptly raises the argument that the Negro has come far enough. Each step forward accents an ever-present tendency to backlash.

Why is equality to assiduously avoided? Why does white America delude itself , and how does it rationalize the evil it retains?

The majority of white Americans consider themselves sincerely committed to justice for the Negro. They believe that American society is essentially hospitable to fair play and to steady growth toward a middle-class Utopia embodying racial harmony. But unfortunately this is a fantasy of self-deception and comfortable vanity.

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

and while we're at it

You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations. I am sure that none of you would want to rest content with the superficial kind of social analysis that deals merely with effects and does not grapple with underlying causes. It is unfortunate that demonstrations are taking place in Birmingham, but it is even more unfortunate that the city’s white power structure left the Negro community with no alternative.

Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Spoiler

That's Martin Luther King, Jr as well.

Now here's a question: why did you feel a need to go off on BLM? Cause no one was talking about it OR Martin Luther King Jr. until you brought it up.

Huh.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Also, BLM at some point has to propose actual reforms it would like to see implemented.

http://www.joincampaignzero.org/

Bye...

 

[Enzom21]

But, what do you think of protesters impeding traffic?

The fact that you see no connection between the protesters and Tamir Rice and that you so artlessly avoid my question is answer enough in and of itself, so don't feel too pressed to answer.



Huh.







and while we're at it



Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Spoiler

That's Martin Luther King, Jr as well.

Ugh...not that MLK! The "I have dream" guy, that's the black that I like.

 

[Malyse]

Ugh...not that MLK! The "I have dream" guy, that's the black that I like.

Those people need to

 

[Angelus Errare]

Respectability politics.

MLK wore suits, spoke eloquently, abstained from violence, and still got shot in the face. What's the lesson there?

Black people should wear tuxedos 24/7 speak eloquently with no discernible accent, and pray as they speak and protest!

THEN you'll get progress!

 

[FyreWulff]

jesus fuck we need to get rid of the grand jury system.

and before anyone starts caping for grand juries, we are literally one of two countries that has grand juries. The other one is Liberia.

 

[HK-47]

jesus fuck we need to get rid of the grand jury system.

and before anyone starts caping for grand juries, we are literally one of two countries that has grand juries. The other one is Liberia.

Coincendentally the place Americans wanted to dump freed slaves.

 

[NervousXtian]

But, what do you think of protesters impeding traffic?

This is a thread about the grand jury voting or not voting on the Tamir Rice case.

This isn't the thread about protesters blocking traffic... just stop the baiting bullshit already. Do you want to discuss the topic at hand or do you want to talk about something from another thread?

This passive-aggressive race-baiting stuff is irritating, and I'd rather we remain on topic. You are obviously mad about all this and trying to take it out on me.