Preordered both (well, oculus preordered my rift for me, as a DK1 Kickstarter backer), but only keeping one. Doing the usual backflips trying to figure it out. If vive had the internals of the OR it'd be a lot simpler decision
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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
- Start date
Preordered both (well, oculus preordered my rift for me, as a DK1 Kickstarter backer), but only keeping one. Doing the usual backflips trying to figure it out. If vive had the internals of the OR it'd be a lot simpler decision
Not used a steam controller but I think so. On the steam launcher area where you can blow balloons, you can spin your thumb on the trackpad to choose a colour and you get a nice clicky haptic thing going on.
Edit: random observation - this is a damn fine thread
Yes. Dual stage triggers and trackpads with haptics. Should be just as configurable as a regular steam controller.
ashecitism
Member
haha, David Hewlett from Stargate: Atlantis discussing the PC he's building for VR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4mgluv7aOE
didn't know he had a YT channel
didn't know he had a YT channel
bigwinnerx
Member
Thanks to the note above re: Vive payments.
I have a Vive (April) and a Rift ("27"), so, I'll have one or both here in the next month. That's crazy to think about.
I also don't know which one to keep because I can probably swing one, but, not both. I'm leaning Vive because of the roomscale and I've shown my kids Tilt Brush and I don't think I can keep that from them until the end of the year.
I have a Vive (April) and a Rift ("27"), so, I'll have one or both here in the next month. That's crazy to think about.
I also don't know which one to keep because I can probably swing one, but, not both. I'm leaning Vive because of the roomscale and I've shown my kids Tilt Brush and I don't think I can keep that from them until the end of the year.
hodayathink
Member
Zalusithix
Member
Kind of amusing to think of a person shelling out $600-800 + tax & delivery for VR, plus a good computer to run it all on, but unwilling to pay for porn.
ashecitism
Member
Tested Adr1ft hands-on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO4NPspMwLQ
hodayathink
Member
It is amusing. And sad. And it's where the tube sites have brought us.
Also funny, tube sites won't do VR anytime soon, because the majority of tube site revenue is based on ads, and you can't put ads into or around a VR video.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Oh hey! Nice to hear it is indeed coming to Vive. I was looking forward to this one and am disappointed I won't get to play it at launch.
4 hour game (by dev estimates). So probably 3.
Also, the "most intense" game they tried. Seems like its short length is a good thing given the motion sickness.
I'd buy one if its recommended for entertainment purposes. I'd trying anything once.
In that video the tracking camera is turned to the side. Does this game not use positional tracking? Now that I think about it if you are technically a head within the suit and that helmet doesn't move with your head then I guess there could be instances where they might accidently lean their head forward or backward through the helmet?? You would think you just have the helmet move at some point to solve that. I just know i find the lack of positional tracking a major component of why I would get motion sick.
hodayathink
Member
The three market leaders right now seem to be Naughty America, Badoink, and VirtualRealPorn. VRP being better quality technically for a while, NA having the better known American performers, and Badoink having a new rig that is better than everyone else (but they've only released a couple videos using it).
Zalusithix
Member
Even without movement on the x/y/z planes, and only dealing with rotational movement, I'm not sure how long the headset would stay true before drifting occurs without the camera acting as a correction mechanism.
Oh didn't know they've incorporated the tunneling technique for stabilization as well.
Kinda bummed that he sounded skeptical about implementing motion controls :/
Dreams-Visions
Member
ok. well I'll look for a top 3 pieces for demo purposes maybe a month from now and just pick those up.
Yeah that makes sense. The camera is turned in this video from before GDC as well so it's not an accident. Seems like a result of them making a non-vr game first.
EDIT: Jeremy from tested talked about this in the Reddit thread
Looks like they aren't happy with their implementation. I wonder if Oculus will allow them to disable positional tracking (no one is going to move their sensor) or if the build they showed wasn't finished (they said they were done a while ago in that interview).
Not sure what I think about disabling the positional tracking. In theory if I am told upfront to not move my head except for rotation then it should be ok, but I shouldn't have to be jumping through hoops for a game.
Assuming in real life you couldn't move your head like that, I'd still appreciate some positional tracking inside the headset just for increased comfort (especially in a game set in zero G). Shame you don't have haptics in the headset to indicate when you bump your virtual head, but they could surely do something that'd work?
And how is this different from any game in a cockpit? What happens if you stand up in elite or project cars?
Adam Orth being all 'oh we're done, ready to ship' - doesn't sound ideal.
Is this a 'buy once, play both on monitor and VR'? It sounds like an interesting game but if it is uncomfortable in VR I'd at least like to play on a flat monitor
Assuming in real life you couldn't move your head like that, I'd still appreciate some positional tracking inside the headset just for increased comfort (especially in a game set in zero G). Shame you don't have haptics in the headset to indicate when you bump your virtual head, but they could surely do something that'd work?
And how is this different from any game in a cockpit? What happens if you stand up in elite or project cars?
Adam Orth being all 'oh we're done, ready to ship' - doesn't sound ideal.
Is this a 'buy once, play both on monitor and VR'? It sounds like an interesting game but if it is uncomfortable in VR I'd at least like to play on a flat monitor
Zalusithix
Member
The whole somewhat combative "People told us we shouldn't, so we did!" attitude sounds even less ideal lol. I mean, they can do whatever the hell they want, but that's not the greatest outlook to take. All things considered, I wouldn't go into this game expecting a very polished VR experience. The game itself seems fine, but the VR implementation seems somewhat slapdash. The creator being in the room and not even noticing the tracking camera isn't facing the right way certainly isn't a great sign.
plagiarize
Banned
$20. So I think it's okay.
I wouldn't be too bummed as most early VR experiences will probably be similar lengths.
Compsiox
Banned
I'm pretty sure hearing that might make him more bummed out.
Compsiox
Banned
Sell your DK2 on ebay for 600 USD and get both.
I would say get the Vive. It has better technology, 3D controllers as standard, and it seems to have the better momentum within the community. Oculus have secured a handful of exclusives this first year. Vive has indirect exclusives (like Valve's The Lab) due to its room scale tracking capability.
Well I meant it more like temper expectations and all that. With my limited experience with VR plus everything I read, I don't think that's a bad thing. Playing a 15 hour game can be pretty tiring on a TV, in VR it could be exhausting. I don't mind a great/short experience if it delivers on what's cool about VR like presence and immersion.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Something to make us soon to be Vive owners feel good, bit of a niggle about the res, but absolutely gushing over it.
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/wearables/htc-vive-pre-1286775/review
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/wearables/htc-vive-pre-1286775/review
Zalusithix
Member
The Vive has better technology only so far as tracking goes and the addition of a front facing camera. Screens should be a match, and the Rift has better optics. Rift is also a more refined product from a build perspective. As for better momentum? Nah. There's definitely more people ordering the Rift.
That said, the Vive is certainly the more exciting of the two in the near term. The Rift is kind of gimped until it gets the Touch controllers, and whether Oculus will be able to pull off room scale passably remains to be seen.
Well, I'm returning from a week at GDC. And for me Vive>Rift>>>>>PsVr. Hardware speaking. The Vive is a complete Vr experience. You need a lot of room space, but if you have it, it's incredible. Tested several games and 5 minutes Vr experiences. The Vive fits better, have a better field of view, has a great resolution. The rift looks almost the same, but lacks the 3d position, that is incredible on Vive. But it's a little worse experience. And finally the PsVr felt like a generation before the others, in resolution, in the field of view, and framerate. I would buy the Oculus and the Vive. But not gonna buy the PsVr. I will wait for a better resolution hardware. I tested a lot of games if anyone wants to ask me about it.
Dreamwriter
Member
Adr1ft is only $20, so 4 hours seems fine to me. Of course, I was just reading about Chronos for the Rift being a 14 hour Zelda-like adventure, that one's $50.
I would treat it like a new game console coming out. New game consoles have two points which are really the most important for deciding which to get: which one has more games that you want for it, and which one are your friends getting so you can play multiplayer together. If neither one has enough games you're interested in, then maybe wait to see what other games come out over the next few months, or maybe wait for the next generation (or for another platform). I wouldn't sweat the technology - both are pretty similar, especially when in a few months Oculus releases their motion controller package with its second camera, that enables room-scaled gaming.
The climbing game from Crytek it's insane. Was the best Vr experience I have. Bullet Train it's insane good too. Both I tested on Oculus. The first with a Xbox controller, worked really well, and the other with the touch Oculus controller, which is great! The best Vive demo for me was the Paranormal Activity Vr experience. Felt like the new silent Hill demo on the Ps4, but you really feel there. I grabbed batteries on the floor, put it on the Lantern, everything felt natural. And it's impossible to not feel fear. Incredible
Probably better this way for most VR games really. Especially around launch. The price is low and you can have an experience which is tight and refined before being ready to move on to something else. A game high on the motion sickness scale this would seem even more important. If you can only play for 15 or 30 minutes at a time, a 15 hour experience isn't something I'd want to push through.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
lol looking at your post it looks like you spent too long in VR. It's bleeding into real life.
Edit: Gonna leave it up anyway lol.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Was the screen door effect noticeably worse on the Vive compared to the Rift in your opinion?
mugurumakensei
Member
Literally what it sounds like. It looks like you are looking through a screen door mesh.
I didn't felt the difference
hodayathink
Member
Isn't PSVR supposed to be better than the other two in terms of SDE? I think you may be confusing screen door effect with seeing the individual pixels. Screen door effect is actually being able to see the black in between the pixels, not being able to discern individual pixels.
On the BulletTime demo, I was so immersed that I turned myself several times. And Oculus it's not made to turn. The lady there had to correct me many times. The game tries to keep the action on your front, but when enemies are coming from behind, you instinctively turn your body. So that it's a problem that Oculus have against Vive
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Alright. So I've been sitting on this VR game idea for a while now trying to figure out how to best express what I am envisioning so I don't look stupid lol.
Disclaimer, I am a VRgin. But all of the Ideas that I have formulated were made using the data from all of the VR demos and reviews that I have seen/read about and how I understand VR at this point. This is obviously open ended and I would love input on what could work better or what wouldn't work at all as long as the main idea stays in tact.
So, I was trying to come up with a way to utilize all of the "proven" ideas and tools that we have at our disposal so far in one game.
What I envision is a hybrid VR first person multiplayer team based turn based game in the vein of XCOM/Divinity that would heavily utilize environment physics, proximity chat and sound design. With the possible option of a single player campaign where you can take control of each character.
Magic:
My dream is for a fantasy style game with a time period and magic system akin to the lightbringer series. It's such a unique idea for magic mechanics and since VR is a whole new world I would just love to see more non traditional forms of fantasy being experimented with. You can read more about Chromaturgy here. I think a form of this where you start off very weak but potentially gain strength late game would work well in a multiplayer tactical game given all of the various uses and use cases for the different colors.
Traversal:
This is the hardest part to figure out and nothing is really set in stone as far as a locomotion method. Since there hasn't been a breakthrough in locomotion for huge environments yet I was trying to tackle the problem of utilizing every ones play space while still being in a huge and very interactive environment. I think the best idea that I have seen so far other than hover junkers is the teleportation method from budget cuts and I think that would fit well for this style of game. I really like the cover and movement mechanics of XCOM as well as the way that geography is designed to utilize these so well and I think that would translate well when I think about it in terms of VR.
Traversal Interface:
So, you would aim at the spot that you want to move and you would see a "Ring of interaction" which represents the immediate area in which you can move and interact with the game world even after your turn (This will vary depending on your AP) as well as a ring that represents your room scale boundaries and where you can walk IRL. You will only be able to teleport within the "Ring of Interaction" while it is still your turn, you will only be able to move within your roomscale space when your turn is over. This prevents people from cheesing by teleporting while it is another players turn and He is trying to attack you. However you can still try to dodge attacks within your roomscale while waiting for your next turn. If that makes sense lol.
You would also obviously see rings for any buffs/debuffs active as well.
Movement and environment mechanics:
The idea is to give the player freedom of interaction with the game world within a certain distance that would feel natural for VR. Think picking or even setting locks on anything a lock would be on, setting traps behind cover, Setting up cover with magic or skills, setting a wagon on fire and pushing it, harvesting materials, looting bodies, picking up rocks to throw, setting things on fire with torches, Putting fire out with water or other means, taking cover, etc. Certain actions can only be done on your turn with AP like moving and attacking but others can be done while waiting your turn. It should be risky to not pay attention to what the other team is doing while you are waiting your turn. For example, you could be attacked while your back is turned trying to pick a lock or set up cover in time for your next turn. So, do you try to set up defense first or look for resources? Keep your eye on the enemy or pick a lock to a door barring your way? Lookout for a teammate or stay hidden behind cover? This is where delegation, communication and teamwork really comes in to play in a multiplayer game.
How turns work:
So as with most tactical turn based games everyone would have AP. I don't really know what actions to delegate to AP spendage yet. I'm thinking just movement outside of your "Ring of Interaction", enemy engagement with physical and projectile attacks as well as offensive, defensive and healing magic. I haven't really worked out a turn stat system either, I just haven't taken the time to think about that. In my mind it's more traditional like Divinity but I'd like to work something special for VR for while you are waiting for your turn. Example, after finishing your turn you then have the option to perform one of many risky, time consuming but beneficial tasks. If you finish this task in time you gain that bonus, but if you fail to complete the task by your next turn you lose AP and risk losing your spot in line for your next turn.
Since this is a VR First Person game that would use proximity chat, loosing line of sight of your enemy should be very risky but potentially very rewarding at the same time. If you are inside of a building away from your team trying to gain resources or an advantageous position you will only see the timer for your next turn and cannot see enemy positions. You will however be able to hear things as you would IRL. So this means that stuff like explosion or ringing of steal will be audible at believable distances and these could be your only indicators of what is going on. Hiding around corners or looking through door key holes should allow you to hear conversations or just hear better what is on the other side.
This will be handy and at the same time risky for setting up ambushes and such. Say you are a rogue class and the group leader gives you the task of setting up an ambush and the go signal is an explosion. You take your time meticulously and nervously working your way around the edge of the map to the ambush spot and wait for the signal. Suddenly you hear an explosion and see smoke but it's not where you know your teammates where... So do you go ahead and make the ambush next turn?
Anyway, I have lots more potential rough ideas for it like a spotting system for stealth and non stealth depending on your class. Ie if you haven't been spotted you gain a buff when attacking and for tanks or berserkers they can draw your "spot" and debuff you by doing so but are debuffed if not spotted themselves. The catch is that you only have one "spot" chance to use per turn initially and you cannot attack someone at full force that isn't spotted so they will only take a small amount of collateral damage from traps, explosions and rogue projectiles etc.
Just throwing the idea out there lol. If someone with more experience with this than I (read none lol) actually likes it I would seriously be up to working on it with them and maybe presenting it to some developers or something.
IDK, I'm just really excited for VR but am probably getting ahead of myself lol.
I've probably butchered it （；¬＿¬)
Disclaimer, I am a VRgin. But all of the Ideas that I have formulated were made using the data from all of the VR demos and reviews that I have seen/read about and how I understand VR at this point. This is obviously open ended and I would love input on what could work better or what wouldn't work at all as long as the main idea stays in tact.
So, I was trying to come up with a way to utilize all of the "proven" ideas and tools that we have at our disposal so far in one game.
What I envision is a hybrid VR first person multiplayer team based turn based game in the vein of XCOM/Divinity that would heavily utilize environment physics, proximity chat and sound design. With the possible option of a single player campaign where you can take control of each character.
Magic:
My dream is for a fantasy style game with a time period and magic system akin to the lightbringer series. It's such a unique idea for magic mechanics and since VR is a whole new world I would just love to see more non traditional forms of fantasy being experimented with. You can read more about Chromaturgy here. I think a form of this where you start off very weak but potentially gain strength late game would work well in a multiplayer tactical game given all of the various uses and use cases for the different colors.
Traversal:
This is the hardest part to figure out and nothing is really set in stone as far as a locomotion method. Since there hasn't been a breakthrough in locomotion for huge environments yet I was trying to tackle the problem of utilizing every ones play space while still being in a huge and very interactive environment. I think the best idea that I have seen so far other than hover junkers is the teleportation method from budget cuts and I think that would fit well for this style of game. I really like the cover and movement mechanics of XCOM as well as the way that geography is designed to utilize these so well and I think that would translate well when I think about it in terms of VR.
Traversal Interface:
So, you would aim at the spot that you want to move and you would see a "Ring of interaction" which represents the immediate area in which you can move and interact with the game world even after your turn (This will vary depending on your AP) as well as a ring that represents your room scale boundaries and where you can walk IRL. You will only be able to teleport within the "Ring of Interaction" while it is still your turn, you will only be able to move within your roomscale space when your turn is over. This prevents people from cheesing by teleporting while it is another players turn and He is trying to attack you. However you can still try to dodge attacks within your roomscale while waiting for your next turn. If that makes sense lol.
You would also obviously see rings for any buffs/debuffs active as well.
Movement and environment mechanics:
The idea is to give the player freedom of interaction with the game world within a certain distance that would feel natural for VR. Think picking or even setting locks on anything a lock would be on, setting traps behind cover, Setting up cover with magic or skills, setting a wagon on fire and pushing it, harvesting materials, looting bodies, picking up rocks to throw, setting things on fire with torches, Putting fire out with water or other means, taking cover, etc. Certain actions can only be done on your turn with AP like moving and attacking but others can be done while waiting your turn. It should be risky to not pay attention to what the other team is doing while you are waiting your turn. For example, you could be attacked while your back is turned trying to pick a lock or set up cover in time for your next turn. So, do you try to set up defense first or look for resources? Keep your eye on the enemy or pick a lock to a door barring your way? Lookout for a teammate or stay hidden behind cover? This is where delegation, communication and teamwork really comes in to play in a multiplayer game.
How turns work:
So as with most tactical turn based games everyone would have AP. I don't really know what actions to delegate to AP spendage yet. I'm thinking just movement outside of your "Ring of Interaction", enemy engagement with physical and projectile attacks as well as offensive, defensive and healing magic. I haven't really worked out a turn stat system either, I just haven't taken the time to think about that. In my mind it's more traditional like Divinity but I'd like to work something special for VR for while you are waiting for your turn. Example, after finishing your turn you then have the option to perform one of many risky, time consuming but beneficial tasks. If you finish this task in time you gain that bonus, but if you fail to complete the task by your next turn you lose AP and risk losing your spot in line for your next turn.
Since this is a VR First Person game that would use proximity chat, loosing line of sight of your enemy should be very risky but potentially very rewarding at the same time. If you are inside of a building away from your team trying to gain resources or an advantageous position you will only see the timer for your next turn and cannot see enemy positions. You will however be able to hear things as you would IRL. So this means that stuff like explosion or ringing of steal will be audible at believable distances and these could be your only indicators of what is going on. Hiding around corners or looking through door key holes should allow you to hear conversations or just hear better what is on the other side.
This will be handy and at the same time risky for setting up ambushes and such. Say you are a rogue class and the group leader gives you the task of setting up an ambush and the go signal is an explosion. You take your time meticulously and nervously working your way around the edge of the map to the ambush spot and wait for the signal. Suddenly you hear an explosion and see smoke but it's not where you know your teammates where... So do you go ahead and make the ambush next turn?
Anyway, I have lots more potential rough ideas for it like a spotting system for stealth and non stealth depending on your class. Ie if you haven't been spotted you gain a buff when attacking and for tanks or berserkers they can draw your "spot" and debuff you by doing so but are debuffed if not spotted themselves. The catch is that you only have one "spot" chance to use per turn initially and you cannot attack someone at full force that isn't spotted so they will only take a small amount of collateral damage from traps, explosions and rogue projectiles etc.
Just throwing the idea out there lol. If someone with more experience with this than I (read none lol) actually likes it I would seriously be up to working on it with them and maybe presenting it to some developers or something.
IDK, I'm just really excited for VR but am probably getting ahead of myself lol.
Well maybe you are right. I remember being annoyed by seeing the pixels, with a lot of aliasing. Don't know for sure, if was because of the door effect. So you maybe right.
Zalusithix
Member
Whatever minor weight differences exist between the two headsets probably wont matter as much as how it's distributed on the head/face. How well either headset fits in this regard will differ from person to person. There will no doubt be a statistical advantage to one being considered generally more comfortable than the other, but given all the shapes and sizes of people's heads, there will always be those that prefer the other.
Dreamwriter
Member
Vive would have the same problem, with the cable wrapping around you. Oculus Rift is actually made to turn, it has tracking LEDs in the back (unlike Vive), but the camera-sensor setup Oculus has been using in their Touch demos is not really setup for facing back, because you will be obstructing the controllers from the cameras with your body. Oculus does support cameras with the exact same layout of Vive's lighthouses, opposite corners so one will be behind you and one in front, and Oculus has shown that layout to work, it's really up to the developer whether to support it or not (many will not though because it will most likely require an extension cable for the second camera to be at the opposite side of the room).
The packed in controllers and room tracking are what really persuaded me to seriously consider the Vive. I just have this fear that the Rift being the more well known product will attract more devs to partner with Oculus.
If I had one ounce of patience in my body I would defiantly wait for the next generation. But as a person who loves messing around with new tech, this is like the first big thing that has come around in awhile and I'm dying to still try it for the first time.
Neither really have exclusives that I'm eager to play and my friends wouldn't even know VR was a thing If I hadn't told them. But at this point I'm leaning towards the Vive.
BrettWeir
Member
I'm not in either camp, I'm just damned excited that VR is finally here. As a 44 year old (yep, I'm old) that has gamed since the Atari 2600, this is an incredibly exciting time.
I have a "26" order number for a Rift, so I'm sticking with it. You can't lose with either the Rift or the Vive imho.
One week from tomorrow, (hopefully) my Rift will be shipping, and I can't recall the last time I was this excited for a new gaming peripheral or technology.
/Cheers VR bros/gals
I have a "26" order number for a Rift, so I'm sticking with it. You can't lose with either the Rift or the Vive imho.
One week from tomorrow, (hopefully) my Rift will be shipping, and I can't recall the last time I was this excited for a new gaming peripheral or technology.
/Cheers VR bros/gals