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[John Harker]

Woohoo! My first new thread.

Anyway, so I'm tinkering around with Wind Waker again (mainly cause everyone keeps talking about it) and I've realized how much I detest fetch-quests. Isnt it enough that I have to travel the whole damn world just to get your maps, I then gotta go look for the damn pieces? Thats like, a one-two punch.

And backtracking? Who isn't sick of action/adventure games that make you go through the same areas over and over again? Yes, I'm glad you designed this area of the game, it was fun..... the first time. Id rather lose an hour of game playing time then have to do the same thing over again in the same zones.
Metroid's always bothered me a little because of it.

Thats one of the beauties of RE4. I've never played a game like it with so little actual backtracking, and when you had to - the zones were different! What a pleasure.

So, please go ahead... share your most frustrating/annoying experiences having to replay the same zones over and over 'cause the developer wants to say 10-12 hours instead of 8-10....

 

[Nerevar]

can I count assault on the control room in Halo as backtracking?









I kid, I kid.

 

[BigBoss]

The Metroid series comes to mind but the last game that backtracking just pissed me off was in Warrior Within.

 

[3rdman]

can I count assault on the control room in Halo as backtracking?

As much as I love Halo, and even though you're kidding, its true and I agree. I couldn't stand some of the quests in Fable...The whole damn thing was a fetch quest...goto the Heroes guild -> Get quest -> return for more.

 

[cubicle47b]

Fetch-Quests are one of the worst things to happen to games ("hey, our game isn't long enough, why don't we make the character look for lots of shit"). Backtracking can be cool if done right, which is rare (I thought Super Metroid pulled it off but since then...).

 

[Borys]

Summoner.

Nothing else comes even CLOSE to the amount of backtracking and replaying the same old shit over and over again.

Lenele (big ass map) - 4 times
Fucking Lenele Sewers - 4 times
Wolong - 2 times

The worst of those is Lenele easily. The road to the final boss is a real pain in the ass - tons of liches, mummies, golems and paralyzing knights. And you can't really run from them you have to mow down each and every one encounter. There's easily over 100 monsters in that map.

100 monsters * 3 times = 300 fights in the same exact place.

Great game otherwise

Metroid's backtracking was cool because you could always find some hidden or unavailable earlier energy tank, missile pack etc.
Halo, I really didn't mind it. Kick-ass battle music + snow = me happy

 

[John Harker]

Yea, totally feel you on Summoner.

I really got into the game - for its time, I thought it was great - but I couldn't even beat it. Seriously, I feel like that happens to me a lot. Totally don't have the patience to push through the same crap over and over again.

 

[element]

i hate trial by error gameplay or finding the only path to advance.

 

[Azih]

Escort missions!

 

[johnjohnson]

I think that the worst backtracking problem I had was that I had to replay the same levels from KOTOR in KOTOR 2. that was really bad imho. If they reuse some of the levels in KOTOR 3 I'll start hating them!

But much worse than missions where you have to backtrack are missions where you have to protect someone with inexistant AI that does nothing more than scream and stay in the way. Ico's Yorda is a good example for this.

 

[Jimbob]

The one game that took the 'fetch-quest' genre to new levels of stupidity was Donkey Kong 64 for me. Such....a.....bore. You had to collect a myriad of different items and then do the same for each playable character. In the end it was bordering on kleptomania. For me, one of the worst 3D platformers and such a letdown.

The backtracking in Metroid Prime got on my nerves occasionally but I think the game more than made up for it. And as someone said, there was always a puzzle to solve or a new area to unlock.

 

[johnjohnson]

Metroid's backtracking was cool because you could always find some hidden or unavailable earlier energy tank, missile pack etc.

For me it ruined the whole experience. Especially because you had to kill the same brainless monsters over and over and over and over again revisiting the same rooms over and over and over and over again. It felt kinda boring.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

The one game that took the 'fetch-quest' genre to new levels of stupidity was Donkey Kong 64 for me. Such....a.....bore. You had to collect a myriad of different items and then do the same for each playable character. In the end it was bordering on kleptomania. For me, one of the worst 3D platformers and such a letdown.

The backtracking in Metroid Prime got on my nerves occasionally but I think the game more than made up for it. And as someone said, there was always a puzzle to solve or a new area to unlock.

I umm.. liked Donkey Kong 64... a lot. It's ok.. I give you permission to hurt me.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Escort missions!

Worst. Missions. Ever.

"oh fuck HE DIED AGAIN!"

 

[John Harker]

Agreed on DK64.
You gotta watch out for Rare's platformers. They are NOTORIOUSLY famous for their "collectathons" and fetch-quests. It's like they created the collectathon genre for fun.


"Fetch-Quests are one of the worst things to happen to games ("hey, our game isn't long enough, why don't we make the character look for lots of shit"). "

Here is a great revoltionary idea for Ninty's Rev.... a gaming system that forbides the use of repeating zones! I mean, wouldn't that be novel? An entire action/platforming/adventure/survivor horror/fps game where EVERYTHING was new? And you didn't need any damn keys to find.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

Worst. Missions. Ever.

"oh fuck HE DIED AGAIN!"

Escort missions and any escorting in general SUCKS.

Except in RE4. I had no problems escorting Ashley. Maybe once did she actually get in the way.

 

[Jimbob]

I umm.. liked Donkey Kong 64... a lot. It's ok.. I give you permission to hurt me.

To you Mr. Bigglesworth, I say.....NEE!

I did finish the game so I can't have disliked it that much I suppose bt I think it was more out of determination and the hope that the game would get better. In all fairness I liked the final boss fight.

NEE!

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

Agreed on DK64.
You gotta watch out for Rare's platformers. They are NOTORIOUSLY famous for their "collectathons" and fetch-quests. It's like they created the collectathon genre for fun.


"Fetch-Quests are one of the worst things to happen to games ("hey, our game isn't long enough, why don't we make the character look for lots of shit"). "

Here is a great revoltionary idea for Ninty's Rev.... a gaming system that forbides the use of repeating zones! I mean, wouldn't that be novel? An entire action/platforming/adventure/survivor horror/fps game where EVERYTHING was new? And you didn't need any damn keys to find.

I enjoyed all of Rare's platformers (at least the ones I've played anyways.. like DKC, B-K, DK64, Conker, etc.).. I liked them all quite a bit, actually.. I guess I just don't mind the collectathons overall that much (although like practically everyone else does).

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

There's nothing inherently wrong with either, it's just a matter of making the levels robust enough to support the repetition.

 

[Jimbob]

Escort missions and any escorting in general SUCKS.

Except in RE4. I had no problems escorting Ashley. Maybe once did she actually get in the way.

Yeah she wasn't that bad (certainly no Natalya anyway :lol ) but she did get in the way a couple of times and I ended up blowing her brains out. i did manage to cap her in the head with the rifle once when she was being kidknapped, that was pretty funny. Has anyone managed a look up her skirt yet btw? Man, that miniskirt, wooh!

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

To you Mr. Bigglesworth, I say.....NEE!

I did finish the game so I can't have disliked it that much I suppose bt I think it was more out of determination and the hope that the game would get better. In all fairness I liked the final boss fight.

NEE!

It's not one of my favorite games ever made, but yeah, I finished it as well and I liked it quite a bit (the last boss was pretty cool). Also liked that the original Donkey Kong arcade game was in it. Played that a good amount.

I also thought the graphics were pretty good by N64 standards, except for the overuse of colored lighting.. heh..

 

[Jimbob]

I enjoyed all of Rare's platformers (at least the ones I've played anyways.. like DKC, B-K, DK64, Conker, etc.).. I liked them all quite a bit, actually.. I guess I just don't mind the collectathons overall that much (although like practically everyone else does).

I liked all the others, just DK64 that went a bit too far for me. At the time I enjoyed Banjo more than Mario 64. Especially liked the final board game. And the music was so infectious.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

Yeah she wasn't that bad (certainly no Natalya anyway :lol ) but she did get in the way a couple of times and I ended up blowing her brains out. i did manage to cap her in the head with the rifle once when she was being kidknapped, that was pretty funny. Has anyone managed a look up her skirt yet btw? Man, that miniskirt, wooh!

Hahah.. it's been a while since I've played GE single player, but Natalya could at least take several shots, couldn't she? Ashley dies practically instantly whenever a bullet grazes her.. But yes, overall Natalya did suck. :lol

 

[John Harker]

Donkey Kong Country, the first one, totally blew my mind.
Loved it. Didn't mind collecting at all. Tried really hard to get 100% actually.

But side scrolling is different, its much easier to collect things than in a giant, 3D roaming world. Games are getting so big these days, when it takes you a solid 30 minutes of JUST moving from one area to another, fetching, let alone LOOKING and searching for things in zones you've already done, is suuuuuuuch a wasted pain.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

I liked all the others, just DK64 that went a bit too far for me. At the time I enjoyed Banjo more than Mario 64. Especially liked the final board game. And the music was so infectious.

Now that I think about it.. I finished DKC.. DK64.. Conker.. but never finished Banjo-Kazooie. And I've only played about ten minutes of Tooie (bought it for like $3 from Blockbuster 2 years ago).. what the hell happened to the frame rate in that game?

EDIT:
You're right about the music though.. it kicked ass. Most Rare games on the N64 (DKC on SNES had good music as well) had some great tunes. Very catchy.. GE, PD, BK, etc.

 

[Jimbob]

Now that I think about it.. I finished DKC.. DK64.. Conker.. but never finished Banjo-Kazooie. And I've only played about ten minutes of Tooie (bought it for like $3 from Blockbuster 2 years ago).. what the hell happened to the frame rate in that game?

Aye, finished DKC, DK64, BK and Conker but never felt compelled to pick up Tooie. I can't stand it when games have such a bad framerate. That spoiled parts of Perfect Dark for me. Casual gamers don't always notice the framerate problem though so you do tend to get a lot of games that, on a frame per frame basis, look stunning but run as smoothly as Stephen Hawking in the mud.

If you can't get the game to run smoothly you are pushing the hardware too much. In the same way my mobile phone annoys me in that it can do so many things but its performance as a phone is horrendous. It takes me 5 seconds to open my sms inbox after pushing the button. As an engineer I'd say that was poor design.

 

[Fularu]

I came in fully expecting some WoW bitching!

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

Aye, finished DKC, DK64, BK and Conker but never felt compelled to pick up Tooie. I can't stand it when games have such a bad framerate. That spoiled parts of Perfect Dark for me. Casual gamers don't always notice the framerate problem though so you do tend to get a lot of games that, on a frame per frame basis, look stunning but run as smoothly as Stephen Hawking in the mud.

If you can't get the game to run smoothly you are pushing the hardware too much. In the same way my mobile phone annoys me in that it can do so many things but its performance as a phone is horrendous. It takes me 5 seconds to open my sms inbox after pushing the button. As an engineer I'd say that was poor design.

The only part of Perfect Dark that was hurt severely by the framerate (IMO) was when attempting to play 4 player splitscreen with 8 bots. It's just.. not.. possible. Even 4 players with 4-6 bots me and my friends could tolerate. Otherwise, I really didn't have much of a problem. B-T, though, looks like it's running in slow motion. I really haven't given it a good chance to redeem itself after those initial 10 minutes, so who knows.. :lol

 

[madara]

Love collecthons for most part. I guess its adventurer in me that has not be saited since sierra days. First half of DKC I would say was fantastic for me. Its only when layout, crap camera and need to lack taking enemies up knock in later half can into play that I stopped. So I can agree with ya OP. BK1 was perfection for me, down to very last jiggly piece and jingo, I loved ever sec.

 

[Kuramu]

I like backtracking when done right, because you become so familiar with some areas they become like home. I have quite fond memories of some places. Thing is, they have to give me something to do when i get there, which is why the original METROID backtracking is fun for me... plenty of platforming and enemies to kill. Prime was less fun because killing those enemies was never as challenging or fun.

Collectathons can be done right too. I'm a bit of a pack-rat to begin with, so i enjoy it... except when they go to far... Rare, I'm looking at you.

 

[Razoric]

if you hate fetch quests, never, EVER play World of Warcraft.

"help kill the orc scum! I need 3 bat wings, 5 frog eyes, and 20 murloc balls"

OVER AND OVER AND OVER AHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Jive Turkey]

I like backtracking when done right, because you become so familiar with some areas they become like home. I have quite fond memories of some places. Thing is, they have to give me something to do when i get there, which is why the original METROID backtracking is fun for me... plenty of platforming and enemies to kill. Prime was less fun because killing those enemies was never as challenging or fun.

Collectathons can be done right too. I'm a bit of a pack-rat to begin with, so i enjoy it... except when they go to far... Rare, I'm looking at you.

Agreed here. Bactracking, fetch quests, and collectathons can be fun...Especially if they aren't required. Unfortunately they're more often not only required but uninspired and mind-numbingly boring.

Escort missione will always suck until programmers can devlop an AI that's smart enough to A) not rush headlong at the enemy or B) not just stand there and get pounded.

 

[WARCOCK]

"Escort missions!


Worst. Missions. Ever.

"oh fuck HE DIED AGAIN!""

This is where my severe hate for ICO stems from.

 

[Barrage]

Right now backtracking is keeping me from playing more Paper Mario GC. Honestly, it just feels totally unneccesary and it just drags the whole game down. Which is a shame, because the dialog is great.

 

[arhra]

I came in fully expecting some WoW bitching!

That's just what i was thinking. I think WoW has completely numbed me to fetch quests. After doing the shaman water totem quest, being asked to go somewhere and get something for someone just doesn't seem all that big of a deal...

I still hate escort quests, though. That fucking robot chicken in Tanaris can go eat a dick. So glad i went horde, so i don't have to deal with the escort part of the alliance onyxia key quest line...

 

[golduck342]

Jak 2

go get this to prove you're trustworthy.
go get this and I'll give you the item you need.
go get the item I promised you.
go fix the place you need to go to use the item you just got.

There was a lot of collection in Jak and Daxter too, but at least it was fun.

 

[blue_cat]

Most annoying backtracking I can remember is Jet Force Gemini, going back to get the Tribals.....

*shudder*

 

[Defensor]

But but, I have to fetch those lost kittens for that little bossy girl in Champions.

 

[tsp_gatmog]

i think the most dreaded backtrack was getting the sniper in mgs1. i just didnt wanna leave meryl all by her lonesome.

 

[Ironclad]

Most annoying backtracking I can remember is Jet Force Gemini, going back to get the Tribals.....

*shudder*

That is, in recent memory, the worst case of backtracking. Oh, you collected enough crap throughout the whole game to get to the final boss. Oh wait, nope sorry, go collect every freaking tribal that dies as soon as it comes into view and then you'll have your boss fight. Absolutely stupid.

 

[tsp_gatmog]

"Escort missions!


Worst. Missions. Ever.

"oh fuck HE DIED AGAIN!""

This is where my severe hate for ICO stems from.

what? explain.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Sweet mother of god. How can this thread have gotten so many replies without the mention of STAR FOX ADVENTURES!!!???

 

[John Harker]

Seems like it's all Rares fault. No wonder their stock plummeted, haha.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I've never understood why people bitch about backtracking so much. I don't demand that every step my character takes be towards somewhere he hasn't been before.

 

[Jive Turkey]

That is, in recent memory, the worst case of backtracking. Oh, you collected enough crap throughout the whole game to get to the final boss. Oh wait, nope sorry, go collect every freaking tribal that dies as soon as it comes into view and then you'll have your boss fight. Absolutely stupid.

Yeah that's the first thing that popped into my head when seeing this thread's title.

Oh and great new avatar!

 

[Fularu]

if you hate fetch quests, never, EVER play World of Warcraft.

"help kill the orc scum! I need 3 bat wings, 5 frog eyes, and 20 murloc balls"

OVER AND OVER AND OVER AHHHHHHHHHH

God is it tiresome, For the Taurens I'm just hunting! God they won't stop asking for talons lizard heads crawler claws and shit..

 

[Dragmire]

I only hate backtracking when it feels like an unnecessary game lengthener. The Metroid series does it pretty well, IMO, until Echoes, where the keys were just too hard for me to find at the end. In MP, they told you the exact room the keys were in, did they not? MP is still a culprit to the artificial lengthener, but it was a short part of the game for me, so not so bad.

Wind Waker didn't bother me at all, except maybe getting the map for each section, but only because of how slow the fish is when he gives it to you. Of course the figurine part was ridiculous, so I skipped out on that. But the main parts of the game were barely just ways to extend the play time for me.

DK64 was ridiculous. The golden bananas were fine because you had to complete objectives to get them (as opposed to just hunting and gathering), and the objectives were often pretty fun, like races and barrel shooting. But all the other collecting was insane. Obvious game lengtheners there.

But I think JFG broke the tardometer when they made the tribals both hard to find, and hard to keep alive. What was that?

 

[Red Dolphin]

At the end of the day we can thank Rare for being at the forefront of backtracking and fetch quests! Stand up and be proud!

I can understand the reasons for backtracking in some games. I don't think it can be avoided in games like platformers or adventure games unless you want an extremely short game. Game levels can take very long to design and construct and a lot of developers probably don't want players rushing through quickly and not really appreciating the time that went into designing them.

But pointless fetch quests implemented merely to extend the game's length is not really acceptable. DK64 was ridiculous in this regard. I would have liked the game much better if they had fewer characters or use the same amount of characters but limit the bananas to collect to 100 (instead of 500!!) and make it so you have to use certain character's abilites to collect certain ones.

Conker was the last great Rare platformer (game!) I played and it was really refreshing as their was no collecting at all (outside of restoring health).

 

[Red Dolphin]

I only hate backtracking when it feels like an unnecessary game lengthener. The Metroid series does it pretty well, IMO, until Echoes, where the keys were just too hard for me to find at the end. In MP, they told you the exact room the keys were in, did they not? MP is still a culprit to the artificial lengthener, but it was a short part of the game for me, so not so bad.

You know it was the same in MP2? They told you what room it was in. I found it easier to get a pen and paper and write down each "main area" and then what room I had to go to, to collect the key. The difference between MP2 and MP1 though was you couldn't collect any of the keys until the end of the game almost whereas in MP1, you could collect many of them throughout the game leaving only a few at the end to collect if you were good

DK64 was ridiculous. The golden bananas were fine because you had to complete objectives to get them (as opposed to just hunting and gathering), and the objectives were often pretty fun, like races and barrel shooting. But all the other collecting was insane. Obvious game lengtheners there.

No arguements here

But I think JFG broke the tardometer when they made the tribals both hard to find, and hard to keep alive. What was that?

That was insanely hard and they basically asked you to play through the entire game again before you could do the last boss! I still enjoyed the game quite a lot and the music was excellent. Some of those tribals placed inbetween explosive barrels towards the end of a level were just cruel! ;p And that last boss was a tough bastard. I actually played through the game twice and didn't have the patience to beat him the second time. Just too farking hard.

 

[byproduct]

Metroid Prime's backtracking turned me away from the game before I was even half way through. I haven't been back to it since. I just got sick of having to go through the same places over and over, fighting the exact same regenerating enemies, trying to figure out what the hell I have to do next to progress.

I definitely prefer games where you are constantly moving onward through new areas. I LOVED POP:SOT for this. It was a short game but so much better for not having to travel back and forth through the same areas over and over.