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[Felessan]

Instant classic, indeed…

Wiping out Forza Motorsport team (non-engine) and Tango was classic too
Obsidian is next in line

 

[Madserb2023]

The games industry doesn't run on GAAS, it runs on a handful of GAAS that completely dominate the market. That's why new GAAS games can't compete unless they are exceptional, unlike single player games. You can have 1000s of single player games but no more than a dozen GAAS games as they are played continuously. I look at that chart and think the opposite and instead the logic would be to make more single player games. That's like looking at fast food chains. No point competing against McDonald's and completely failing.

 

[Felessan]

The games industry doesn't run on GAAS, it runs on a handful of GAAS that completely dominate the market. That's why new GAAS games can't compete unless they are exceptional, unlike single player games. You can have 1000s of single player games but no more than a dozen GAAS games as they are played continuously. I look at that chart and think the opposite and instead the logic would be to make more single player games. That's like looking at fast food chains. No point competing against McDonald's and completely failing.

Asia proved long ago that this is bullshit
You might not be McDonalds but smaller chains can have success via specialization

We have ZZZ, WuWa and Arknight threads all on the 1st page and those are not "10 years old games"

 

[Madserb2023]

Asia proved long ago that this is bullshit
You might not be McDonalds but smaller chains can have success via specialization

We have ZZZ, WuWa and Arknight threads all on the 1st page and those are not "10 years old games"

Exactly, smaller chains. That's not what Sony or anyone else is trying to do. They are trying to complete with the likes of Fortnight. You can't. Look at any market, you always have only a couple of big players. There aren't hundreds of operating systems for example. As soon as a GAAS game drops below a certain amount of players it just collapses. Because of the budgets they neea a large player base and just through maths not every game can. A single player game with a decent multiplayer mode doesn't need a minimum amount of players.

 

[Felessan]

Exactly, smaller chains. That's not what Sony or anyone else is trying to do. They are trying to complete with the likes of Fortnight.

They do not
Look at Sony games - GT, HD2 Marathon, Horizon - they are smaller and more niche. And Highguard for sure didn't go to compete with Fortnite - it's quality just scream of a low AA project, they wanted to carve a bit of niche for themselves, same as HD2 or Ark did, though in different budget bracket.
Compare it to Asia where number of games baring fangs at Mihoyo are not small and some of them are quite successfully grab not a niche but rather part of market pie for themselves.

You can't. Look at any market, you always have only a couple of big players.

There are like tens of biggest gacha games and hundreds of smaller one.
Look at cars - there are some big players, but there quite a big average to small players and industry are quite lively

There aren't hundreds of operating systems for example. As soon as a GAAS game drops below a certain amount of players it just collapses. Because of the budgets they neea a large player base and just through maths not every game can. A single player game with a decent multiplayer mode doesn't need a minimum amount of players.

A single player game with multiplayer does need a minimum amount of sales or studio will go down just as fast as gaas one do.
And as I said above - its somewhat easier for AA gaas to survive compared to AA single player game as a number of players former need is really small if you have suitable monetization. You can check mobile gaas games - there are hundreds of them alive.
If you have whales to sponsor your game - it'll be alive as long as those whales present. For SP games you need a constant flow of new players and acquiring is harder than retention.

For your understanding - global mobile market is ~105bn and Fortnite and Mihoyo, biggest players in West and Asia respectively, holds around 3% each. The rest 94% of market split between innumerous number of smaller titles, practically all of them are gaas (non-gaas market on mobiles is immaterial)

 

[Sohurmk833]

The Asia comparison is completely nonsensical as these games run on a shoestring budget and are tied to a very specific market. The average western GaaS slop costs in the hundreds of millions and needs a massive audience that will never materialize.

 

[Guilty_AI]

There are like tens of biggest gacha games and hundreds of smaller one.

Sooo, like single player. And so, like single player, there is no guarantee going gaas will make you enough money. Soooo, no advantage whatsoever in pursuing gaas instead of a traditional sp game.

And as I said above - its somewhat easier for AA gaas to survive compared to AA single player game as a number of players former need is really small if you have suitable monetization.

Quite the opposite, you can have something like Tokyo Xtreme Racer being considered a massive success with only something like 5 million in revenue, or many Atlus games. They don't need player retention to begin with, unlike gaas. So much so many AA Gaas like Deep Rock Galatic are actually much more similar to traditional games than the typical MP GAAS, some being straight up single player like Euro/america truck simulator, not even demanding internet connection to operate. They're basically normal games that get a expansion or update every now and then, monetized or not.

What the Asia market has proved has nothing to do with gaas but with talent retention and proper budget management. Its the same for any type of game.

 

[FMN]

It's because GaaS fits better into people's busy lives.

Log on, do a couple of daily's, log off.

No commitment

That is like dictionary definition of a commitment.

 

[PeteBull]

 

[Felessan]

Sooo, like single player. And so, like single player, there is no guarantee going gaas will make you enough money. Soooo, no advantage whatsoever in pursuing gaas instead of a traditional sp game.

There are more people and money in gaas part of the market. And more importantly - gaas part is expanding and SP part is shrinking. And people, unless they are very principal, wants to be on winning side

Quite the opposite, you can have something like Tokyo Xtreme Racer being considered a massive success with only something like 5 million in revenue, or many Atlus games.

And small mobile title can live off 100k revenue. Even likes of F11 now earns less than 5mio per year and continue to operate.

They don't need player retention to begin with, unlike gaas. So much so many AA Gaas like Deep Rock Galatic are actually much more similar to traditional games than the typical MP GAAS, some being straight up single player like Euro/america truck simulator, not even demanding internet connection to operate.

The difference is that gaas operate on recurring revenue basis and SP operates on upfront revenue basis. So gaas prioritize retention (though acquiring also important) while SP focus on acquiring. Failing to aquire sufficient initial sales, where people have to pay real money, unlike 90% of gaas games, is a huge risk. And as Steam shows thousands fail miserable at that, failing to even get back Steam placement cost (100$)

MP gaas only typical in console space as it's the oldest type and usually first ones to enter market. Non-console space crowded with coop, semi-SP or even straight SP-focused gaas games (most gachas are SP games maybe with some coop elements).
GaaS is a content delivery scheme "game as a service", it can be put to any type of game. It's like series instead of standalone film of traditional SP gaming.

What the Asia market has proved has nothing to do with gaas but with talent retention and proper budget management. Its the same for any type of game.

95% of Asia industry are gaas, to the point that those who wants to expand to SP for diversification find it difficult to find enough talents who are experienced and willing to work on SP games.
Except some exceptions for their name, like Nintendo, biggest gacha houses grab the best talents, especially young ones, as they have way more money and job prospects are way brighter.

 

[Guilty_AI]

There are more people and money in gaas part of the market. And more importantly - gaas part is expanding and SP part is shrinking. And people, unless they are very principal, wants to be on winning side

No there isn't and it isn't. This is like seeing mario kart sell a bajillion copies and thinking "kart games is where players are at!". Completely ignores context and the history many succesfull live service games have, typical shortsightness of the business bros.

The difference is that gaas operate on recur1rring revenue basis and SP operates on upfront revenue basis. So gaas prioritize retention (though acquiring also important) while SP focus on acquiring. Failing to aquire sufficient initial sales, where people have to pay real money, unlike 90% of gaas games, is a huge risk.

Its the exact same risk exist for both you know, by your own words. I dont know how you can admit acquiring players is important for gaas then immediatly contradict this without any further elaboration. Can't get players? Your live service is done for.

And as Steam shows thousands fail miserable at that, failing to even get back Steam placement cost (100$)

You realize the vast majority of these "failures" were barely an attempt to begin with right? Asset flips, copy-paste rpg maker games and so on. Even i published a game that i made in a week (not on steam tho), no shortage of people who think they can cobble together a game in a month and make a viable product.

MP gaas only typical in console space as it's the oldest type and usually first ones to enter market. Non-console space crowded with coop, semi-SP or even straight SP-focused gaas games (most gachas are SP games maybe with some coop elements).

What? There's CS, Dota2, LoL, Warthunder, the "non-console" space has plenty of MP games. I'm arriving at the conclusion you truly have no idea what you're even talking about.

 

[Sohurmk833]

There are more people and money in gaas part of the market.

90% of that money is concentrated on a dozen or so franchises.

 

[PeteBull]

90% of that money is concentrated on a dozen or so franchises.

90% is fortnite and gta5 online alone.
That leaves 10% for 2nd and 3rd tier succesfull games, think marvel rivals, helldivers 2 and such, basically nothing is left for modern audience gaas tho since women dont play those games xD