3rd at least had the benefit of being very character focused on its design. The main story is very focused on just a few characters and the doors are even more focused. Harder to make it work when you up the scale.
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
3rd at least had the benefit of being very character focused on its design. The main story is very focused on just a few characters and the doors are even more focused. Harder to make it work when you up the scale.
Correct. 3rd is a very segmented game, probably the most segmented in the whole series. So it doesn't feel out of place to have lots of playable characters.
3rd is executed extremely well for what it is and its position as an epilogue and send-off to the Sora series. Extremely rewarding in the character department while the main story doesn't lose focus on Kevin and Ries.
I personally have never played such an "epilogue" game before in my life, so I can say it was a unique and great experience, that has never been offered to me by any other RPG series.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Not saying that this is how it will turn out. But I want to just mention that after playing Ao I just have way more confidence in Sen 3 delivering.
Cause what I see is that all the groundwork has been done to give payoff what needs to get payoff where I think certain things will only start in Sen 3.
Like Gaius for example I can easily see that his story arc will merely start in Sen 3 instead of it coming to a full conclusion ala how it did for Jusis/Elliot/etc. And I can actually see that be even better than what we did get for those, well at least more hype as his arc might be possibly farther reaching as the whole series is concerned, maybe.
You can call it a double standard if you want, but the reality is that the pandering for the Sky games has absolutely no bearing on the game itself (except for the addition of CG images inserted at random moments in the story and a more colorful look due to the new generic artstyle if you count those as pandering), whereas the pandering in Cold Steel comes in the form of a waifu simulator via a shoddy attempt at copying Persona social links, and a LN protagonist that's all the rage in the anime industry.
The difference here is that the latter stuff are direct detriments to the game, both in the mechanics and writing, while the former has the sad side effect of appealing to horny otaku so they could see a potential increase in their sales.
I like to throw shade on Cold Steel when I can. Jusis is still the best thing about the Cold Steel games, though.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
While I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, the conversation is strictly about visual titillation, here, and bringing these other things up is kinda random.
In terms of how they relate to characterization and character arc, I agree. Just involve other members other than Rean in each and it'd be perfect.
Pandering to the lowest denominator was brought up, so I assumed any kind of pandering was fair game at that point. My bad if I went off-track, though.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
The 3rd has the advantage of the character moments not having to be tied with the main story or the the main character.
If we want to do that sort of thing in Cold Steel III, I think we'd need to divide the game into different PoV and stop the reliance of the party members on just one person for their character growth. Like, pair Jusis and Machias together to push each other through their own character arcs and don't let Rean be anywhere near them.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Seriously, it's not even due to a dislike for Rean; it's about thinking of a good pacing for a character-heavy game. Like, imagine if the 3rd needs Kevin to always be around to give inputs before any character have meaningful moments? What a real drag that game would be. Not even Estelle - the Sun that Shines on Everyone - is everpresent.
To be fair, Rean is shaping up to be somewhat cool in CS3 (knock on wood).
I don't recall ever saying I dislike him, just that I think he's very dull and uninteresting.
I'm hype for CS3 Rean though.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Rean makes the cast of Cold Steel revolve around him in a way that Estelle never did in Sky.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
*knocks*
They've painted themselves into a few good exits with him. Hopefully they stick the landing.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I love this art
We can be best friends. I don't mind the game throws me a beach section just to show off some boobs, as long as that section is clearly standalone. I can just ignore that part and enjoy the rest of the game. In CS's case, the pandering is entrenched in the root of game design and directly affects the plot line, overall quality of writing, and character development.
No, it absolutely has bearing on the game because it literally changes how the player perceives certain events. There's quite a bit of difference between this:
And this:
It objectively conflicts with the writing, because the point of the original scene wasn't to objectify Estelle, but to instead focus on her increasing discomfort/confusion about her feelings towards Joshua. These aren't moments you can just "gloss over" and ignore, and in my opinion, they're outright detrimental to the core experience. Sure, FC: Evo is ultimately a good game, but that's because of the source material. It's an enhanced remake that completely misses what made FC/SC special. Hence why I think it's a poor remake. Maybe you can gloss over the mediocre art and shoehorned pandering, but to me, it's extremely offputting (especially since the original FC was the polar opposite of that).
I was going to leave it at that, but since you dragged Cold Steel with a garbage, thought terminating phrase like "waifu simulator" so let's get into it.
Some of the criticisms levied towards Cold Steel in this community are so goddamn disingenuous. Hyperbolic statements like "waifu simulator" and "Rean's harem" are thrown around constantly as if they're the gospel, completely undermining the game and its core cast for a quick laugh. Rean absolutely has his flaws, especially when compared to Estelle/Kevin, but he isn't even close to being the LN protag people like to pretend he is, nor is he devoid of good moments.
The bond system has its fair share of pros and cons, but i'd never seriously argue that it's detrimental to the core experience, since they're completely incidental and don't act as "substitutes" for character development like the Persona social links too. They also happen alongside the ongoing narrative, so characters don't regress either. The "waifu" aspect makes up an extremely small portion bond events, with a romantic payoff that is literally is only present in CS2. CS isn't faultless, and it trips itself with some of its indulgent moments but it's definitely not a series that's heavy on the pandering.
Playing through FC/SC after CS/CS2 has been genuinely eye opening, because I've become more cognizant of CS's weaknesses, but I've also become more cognizant of its strengths as well.
Really, really, really bad English though. I'd rather wait for something that's competently done.
"English"
If you care at all about quality, I'd strongly recommend just waiting for the final, edited patch. This one ranges from bad at best to outright gibberish at times.
Pretty much. They've got their strengths and weaknesses, and different sets of priorities even existing inside the same franchise. CS isn't trying to be Sky and vice versa. Only a few chapters into SC mind you, but I find the supposed gap in quality pretty negligible so far. I think it comes down to preference moreso anything else.
hans_castorp
Member
It's not dislike. It's that Estelle, Kevin and Lloyd were much more interesting and better written.
In cold steel all has to revolve around him.
I don't even understand your criticism, honestly. "All has to revolve around him."
He's... the lead character? Like, what is this a criticism of? Execution? Or a creative choice on Falcom's part? Stories with leads tend to largely involve those leads. There's no rule being broken here. I don't see the point in comparisons Rean to Estelle because for your argument to really work you need to cut Joshua out of the picture.
FC is about Estelle AND Joshua. That game revolves around them and the circumstances they find themselves in,
SC seems to be about Estelle
which ironically in the context of this argument, has everyone fawning over Estelle in the two chapters I've played through so far.
I can't speak to 3rd at all.
CS and CS2 were about Rean AND Class VII, which is why CS2's
In both cases you have a lead character because that's what these stories (most stories) typically have, but it doesn't really do them due dilligence to just ignore the dynamics at work.
So, idk hit me with a rebuttal? "Everything revolves around Rean" is reading like a shitty buzz phrase, if I'm being honest.
He's... the lead character? Like, what is this a criticism of? Execution? Or a creative choice on Falcom's part? Stories with leads tend to largely involve those leads. There's no rule being broken here. I don't see the point in comparisons Rean to Estelle because for your argument to really work you need to cut Joshua out of the picture.
FC is about Estelle AND Joshua. That game revolves around them and the circumstances they find themselves in,
which is why the ending is so effective.
SC seems to be about Estelle
and Joshua trying to reconnect,
I can't speak to 3rd at all.
CS and CS2 were about Rean AND Class VII, which is why CS2's
ending is also pretty painful.
In both cases you have a lead character because that's what these stories (most stories) typically have, but it doesn't really do them due dilligence to just ignore the dynamics at work.
So, idk hit me with a rebuttal? "Everything revolves around Rean" is reading like a shitty buzz phrase, if I'm being honest.
Well, I can agree that the art for that scene was out of place, but I don't think it conflicts with the original scene at all; mainly because I consider the meat of that scene to be the discussion between Tita and Estelle (which focuses on her increasing confusion with her feelings towards Joshua as you said) before she enters the mixed bath and the discussion after the tropey "girl screams from being naked" scene. I would contend its the original's fault for even having a scene like that in there, not that this is a valid excuse for the injected fanservice they have in Evo. I suppose it ruined your core experience, but it didn't for me. Fortunately, that kind of art was limited to just that scene alone.
I do like my ability to be able to just filter out fanservice scenes mainly because they're typically not the focus of my attention in story-driven games. But then I find myself in these arguments and I have to remove that filter and think critically, which in retrospect is an eye-opener for me.
I don't know what your definition of a waifu simulator is, but if you're given the choice to pursue a romance with more than one girl, regardless of how trivial the romantic content is, it's a waifu simulator. Now, I'm not saying the game is a waifu simulator, but the components of what makes a waifu simulator are present in the CS games; and they're certainly anything but pandering. What's the reason for most of the girls having to end romantically? Just keep them platonic like they did with the rest of the guys. If you ask me, this kind of objectification is worse than the egregious hotspring scene. Bonds don't work for me because it indicates to me that the writers are either too incompetent to tie the character developments into the main story, or they're trying to cater to a specific audience that loves the illusion of free choice (which ultimately leads to nothing). I could get into more about why I hate the bonds, but that's beyond the scope of this argument. I will add that the Crossbell games are just as guilty, but supposedly the focus on a smaller cast helps alleviate the issue. It's still inexcusable, either way.
I'm not entirely sure what those images in your tweet are suppose to suggest, because those kinds of lines in particular aren't all that foreign to a LN protagonist. Though to be fair, XSeed clearly did a good job of localizing the Japanese script so he has some semblance of a personality. I'll be honest, Rean wasn't all that offensive until near the end of CS1. The rescue scene with Alfin on the ship in CS2, however, was what broke the camel's back for me with him. A scene that was initially really cool, but in retrospect, absolutely terrible.
To lighten up the mood, I will point out that this entire argument is ironic since we're both sporting a 2B avatar, ha ha.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I wouldn't say that say that they revolve around him, but I do feel that a lot of character moments and growth of party members in CS heavily hinge on Rean being there while they don't need to.
Like in the first Cold Steel,
the Machias and Jusis feud was half-resolved explicitly because Rean took a blow for them, making them realize the error of their ways. Heck, in the first place, Rean was intentionally put into problematic groupings explicitly for him to resolve them, and there was never anything of note happen to the non-Rean group during the study excursions.
This continues on to Cold Steel II, where
Machias, Elliot and Fie didn't even seem to be doing anything in the absence of Rean other than "trying to find a way to Garrelia" (some resistance cell they were... Emily, Nicolas, Alan, Loggins, Fidelio and Dorothee installed communication relays and opened supply routes. Klein and Hibelle went all hero vigilante. What did you do, Machias, what did you doooooo)
Emma somehow waited for Rean's appearance to air out her teary hesitance even though she already had more than one month to sort out her feelings with Laura and Jusis. It also took Rean specifically to talk Jusis out of being the lone wolf.
Emma somehow waited for Rean's appearance to air out her teary hesitance even though she already had more than one month to sort out her feelings with Laura and Jusis. It also took Rean specifically to talk Jusis out of being the lone wolf.
Contrast these with Sky SC, where the party members actually went around and do their own things in the absence of the main characters. [Chapter III]
Anelace and Schera/Agate actually encountered Campanella while Estelle never did.
Tita and Agate also had long, pensive scenes where they find their answers with no Estelle in sight.
Estelle involvement with Zin's problem was merely bringing him to cross path with Walter, and then he resolved it all by himself.
And obviously in Sky the 3rd, due to it's nature,
none of the non-Reis party members' character moments actually involved Kevin at all other than the him bringing them together.
I feel like the new CG definitely clashed with the aesthetics of the original game. See, they never intended titillate to audience. You were in Estelle shoes, and the focus was on her character development. That's still in Evo, but they stick this awkward CG where you got a good look at her half-naked body and it's just pandering to the max. Suddenly she's your audience surrogate and fanservice™. It just sucks, because Estelle doesn't deserve it. And I totally disagree with the bolde; I thought the original hot spring scene was really great. They took a tired, overused trope and did something special with it in a non-pandery way. It developed Estelle, informed us on Joshua's
true feelings towards Estelle
Also, I think you got the wrong idea about me. I can filter out fanservice scenes no problem when experiencing them (it's not an ability...), it just comes down to the type of fanservice relative to the game. The fanservice car scene in Persona 5 bothered me, but I didn't really linger on it, because it was expected (since it's Persona.) Something like that happening in a game like FC/SC makes me physically upset, which is why the Evo stuff is so disappointing. I'm not a fan of unnecessary fanservice in general, though.
Is it really a waifu simulator though? Are there flags? Can you go on dates with them? Do you have dialogue prompts with them? The answer is no, no and no. The game lets you spend intimate time with people of both genders. Sure, the female bonds turn romantic (and I also wish they had allowed you to have platonic endings with the girls), but the freedom of choice was nice. If Laura was your waifu you were set, but if you were a Jusis guy, you could spend time with him for basically the same amount of time. The freedom of choice absolutely had its own appeal, even if it led to some issues. That's why the "waifu simulator" phrase irks me. It has some elements of a romance sim, but so what? It doesn't define every bond scene, especially in CS1 (because again, the romantic payoff is in CS2)and I emphatically disagree with it being there because of incompetence because the character development still happens in the main narrative, and the bond scenes basically function as companion pieces.
It's to show that he's not your typical LN protag because
A) He's proactive instead of reactive
B) A change of pace from how he's usually like, whereas LN protags are almost always static
And yeah, maybe Rean was bland in the Japanese script, but the localization gives him a ton of personality in his dialogue.
And Rean's biggest blunder in CS1 is undoubtedly Chapter 4, which has a bunch of cliche reveals (imouto and
hidden dark mode[/url].) all in quick succession, and it's an incredibly jarring contrast from chapters 1-3. He ties it back together towards in the end, but it's only in CS2 where they really resolve his power in a good way (Elise remains terrible, however). In what world is Rean
a bad scene? It's like, the biggest character development milestone for him in the game...
"That's not ironic at all..."
—2B, probably
learning to stop using people as an excuse to feel guilty
"That's not ironic at all..."
—2B, probably
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I'd even say that if that's the direction they're going for, then they didn't do enough because not allowing Jusis to dance with Rean is lame as heck.
I have high hopes for Rean's development in CS3 (and maybe some fear), and I am also subscribing to the [CSI]
"Elise is also an Awakener"
Scrooge I'd read your whole post, but I do wanna finish the Sky trilogy without spoilers. Apologies, I should've put that in my original post.
That said, I think if a ton of meaningful things happened to the class VII teams that were out of the spotlight and were then reflected when they were back in it, it'd be a huge criticism leveled at CS in particular.
I think you have a stronger case for CS2 because
In general though, off-screen story developments aren't really something any of us want, I don't think. And as for Rean resolving issues between his classmates, could I not level the same basic criticism at Sky?
Estelle and Joshua just happen to fall into every major incident?
Joshua constantly leads Estelle by the hand?
They always end up working with pretty talented Bracers?
In both cases it's extremely formulaic. You can say Sky dresses it up better than CS does (I might agree, actually) but it is just as formulaic and, in my opinion, it does work.
That's why I say, is it a criticism of execution or merely a creative choice on Falcom's part? I think you can disagree with choices a story makes. Presenting those choices as being bad somehow is a different case to make, but people do conflate the two.
Let me ask you this: What would you do differently? Because right now the criticism at play here seems to still boil down to "Rean is the lead character and is treated like one". I get not liking that (I guess), but I just can't reconcile why it's just so bad compared to Sky when Sky feel, FC) does the same thing with the possibility that, again, it's maybe masked a little bit better.
If I really have to know something from SC or 3rd to understand where you're coming from then let me know and we'll put this discussion on ice. I really do want to experience those as purely as I can. SC is very good so far.
Edit: Kinda lame to minimize Elise' value as "Rean's supportive sister." She's an important person in his life. I could be equally as reductive about Cassius, re: Estelle. I know people here don't like her and I'm not saying the character is great, but that's a little silly and really just not fair.
That said, I think if a ton of meaningful things happened to the class VII teams that were out of the spotlight and were then reflected when they were back in it, it'd be a huge criticism leveled at CS in particular.
I think you have a stronger case for CS2 because
a month passes and teams are formed and just naturally things are going to happen and some people will change even if only slightly (it is just a month after all.)
In general though, off-screen story developments aren't really something any of us want, I don't think. And as for Rean resolving issues between his classmates, could I not level the same basic criticism at Sky?
Estelle and Joshua just happen to fall into every major incident?
Joshua constantly leads Estelle by the hand?
They always end up working with pretty talented Bracers?
In both cases it's extremely formulaic. You can say Sky dresses it up better than CS does (I might agree, actually) but it is just as formulaic and, in my opinion, it does work.
That's why I say, is it a criticism of execution or merely a creative choice on Falcom's part? I think you can disagree with choices a story makes. Presenting those choices as being bad somehow is a different case to make, but people do conflate the two.
Let me ask you this: What would you do differently? Because right now the criticism at play here seems to still boil down to "Rean is the lead character and is treated like one". I get not liking that (I guess), but I just can't reconcile why it's just so bad compared to Sky when Sky feel, FC) does the same thing with the possibility that, again, it's maybe masked a little bit better.
If I really have to know something from SC or 3rd to understand where you're coming from then let me know and we'll put this discussion on ice. I really do want to experience those as purely as I can. SC is very good so far.
Edit: Kinda lame to minimize Elise' value as "Rean's supportive sister." She's an important person in his life. I could be equally as reductive about Cassius, re: Estelle. I know people here don't like her and I'm not saying the character is great, but that's a little silly and really just not fair.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Machias, Elliot, and Fie
Laura and Emma in Legram
Alisa, Gaius, and Millium in Nord too, I guess, but they were literally helpless in the mechanized conflict up there and had to get bailed out of a Cryptid fight
George, Towa, and presumably the Courageous
smuggle finished relays into areas both ignored and patrolled by the Noble Alliance
Machias, Elliot, and Fie
Thomas
Now, a lot of other flaws mentioned so far I have to agree with. CS II just feels rushed and padded out, even if the padding's often fun and a breeze. Thankfully the NPC dialogue great, though I think banter's a little weaker than in CS. And ultimately there's plenty of moments where it's felt like the plot's spinning wheels because Falcom had to rush out the sequel, let alone the prequel, both of which they were struggling to make assets for which could fit into around 3.5 GB for the commercially-savvy Vita cart release. I think CS III will massively benefit from having much more time to incubate, though it'll ultimately cut corners when possible because of the apparent huge stakes and stories to wrap up. So far I definitely prefer the storytelling style from the Sky games, too, but it seems (according to import impressions from players of both Sen entries and other Falcom games) that Ys VIII has a surprisingly better story than even CS just in terms of pacing, characters' relevance to the plot, and subtle development/world-building which impacts the whole Ys canon. We're going to like what's coming up at least in aggregate, and I think Falcom knows they went overboard with some decisions in CS (II) which clearly hurt their stories' potential just to reference FC/SC in superficial ways or play tropes way too straight for an otaku demographic that has questionable brand loyalty.
Alternatively, Falcom directs the flow of pandering straight into Tokyo Xanadu sequels while returning to Crossbell-style writing and risks for upcoming Kiseki games,
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Indeed, but I think there's a difference between plot developments and character developments, and I'm mostly talking about the latter, here.
I say that Chapter V of Sky SC has a perfect example of what I'm talking about, so maybe we should ice the conversation until then, at least?
Okay, this may be personal taste more than anything, but I generally dislike her kind of character archetype; a character whose motivations revolves only around the main character and functions only as motivation for the main characters.
Like, we can say that Cassius is Estelle's supportive father, but he also has [Sky FC]
the love for his country and the grief for his wife
go to St. Astarea is because she wants to put a distance between her and Rean
It's on hold until then, sure.
Re: Elise - That's fair enough, but is your spoiler not something she does for herself? Seems like a pretty personal development. I genuinely can't recall though.
Just to clarify, the scene I meant was specifically the encounter between Estelle and Joshua in the mixed bath. They could've done away with that part and both the scenes before and after would've still been just as good. But I think we're at the point where we'll have to agree to disagree on a personal level, since I do agree with your sentiment that the aesthetic does work against the writing of the game objectively.
Okay, waifu and husbando simulator. See, my problem is that the romance is entirely optional. By making it optional, you're essentially shaving off a whole layer of depth that could be added to make the character more interesting. Another thing is how the bond events are typically only between Rean and character x. This is not interesting in the least, and just lazy. It's been a year or so since I last touched CS1 and CS2 and I can only remember a handful of bond events that actually involved other major characters beyond just the two. Biggest offending example for me had to be in CS1 when Elliot has a recital in the church with his club and apparently the only one with enough free time to go watch was Rean (???????????).
Characters in JRPGs are interesting because they're defined to have set relationships. Instead of a complicated web of relationships between a ton of characters which in turn spawns interesting dynamics between even more characters, you have Rean in the middle with huge ass arrows to every single character, with the other characters having 1/10th of the size of that arrow between each other (which I would think describes the entirety of Class 7 perfectly). In contrast, Estelle would be at the center, but her biggest arrow would definitely be with Joshua, seconded by her father. Schera and Oliver, for example, would be relatively the same size or so (I'm not done with SC yet, but I saw some spoilers between the two). Likewise, Agate and Tita would have a huge arrow between each other (maybe even bigger than Tita's arrow to Estelle/Joshua in CS3). Anyway, I think you get the point, but using the above example, choice in these games typically lead to a Rean-web more so than an Estelle-web.
The burden of mediation falls on the MC, of all people, but why not the others? Being proactive and non-static (there are plenty of LN protagonists that sport both traits) doesn't really change the fact that he's got all the snowflake powers, which is probably the point of contention when it comes to calling him a LN protagonist. Being a LN protagonist isn't all that bad in itself, it's just the crap that comes with it which usually includes special powers, girls (and the story) revolving around him in some way, and a fairly bland personality. That airship escape was bad because suddenly super powers and he's running past a bunch of people who are supposed to be stronger than him. And Alfin being the one to snap him out of his rut that's been eating him ever since he was young is just plain silly.
In any case, this discussion is eating up my free time to play SC! That, and I feel like my arguments are starting to not make any sense the more we go on. Strategic break!
Wait, how so? How does an optional romance feature result in characters having less depth? You realize that game development is a zero sum game, right? The romance aspect is extremely minor, culminating in a couple of snippets of dialogue (+ one big one at the end of CS2) out of hundreds of lines of dialogue. It's not resource intensive, and I can't think of an imagined replacement that would suddenly make characters have more depth, because that's only possible if work is done from the ground up. Using the bond system as a scapegoat for all of your shortcomings with CS's character interaction is pointless; there's nothing stopping them from giving scenes for party members where Rean wasn't a focus... they just didn't do it. If your argument is that they could have done a romance that was story integrated, then I agree, they shouldn't have bothered with optional romances and made Alisa the only love interest (and they sorta basically did this with CS1).
They definitely could do with adding more cross character interaction (that much is undeniable) but I also get why it's just Rean + x character, because they're all centered around a character + their club/school life (it's less understandable in CS2). Like, literally half of Laura's bond events have to do with the swim team, while someone like Machias is completely concerned with chess and his dynamic with the noble alliance.This isn't lazy; there's a very clear focus here, and it's still a blatant set up from the system despite being a "shoddy" attempt at copying social links, since social links are comically isolated from each other. Suffice it to say, I strongly disagree with calling it a "waifu" simulator, since 90% of the time you're spending time with people and getting to know them better with 0 romance building.
You and literally everyone who's played the game has pointed this out. It's an obvious issue, but an egregious case.
I don't disagree with parts of this, but that's because FC/SC has top class character interactions. And even then, it's not like the non-Estelle/Joshua characters have particularly strong connections with each other. Most of the FC/SC party member connections with the various characters in the game are fairly basic, and easily comparable to that of CS. Seriously, you're not even pretending to give Class VII the benefit of the doubt either, considering you glossed over their relationships with their family members, childhood friends and club mates that are clearly defined. Don't get me wrong, the argument that the game is too Rean focused is absolutely valid. Compared to Rean, Estelle feels more like an irrelevant cog, which makes her connections with characters like Niel and Dorothy a bit more meaningful. But to say that the characters in CS don't also have a web of relationships is utter nonsense.
I'm not arguing that he doesn't have LN traits (because he obviously does), but he's definitely a cut above your average LN protag, since he's got a quite a bit more going for him (and his localization is Top Tier).
The airship sequence was good because this is a series needlessly bogged down in obnoxious power levels and "false" victories, so having Rean disregard that was wonderful and cathartic. "Suddenly superpowers" had an entire's game worth of build up (CS1) where it was the main focus in Chapter 4 and 5. Alfin snapping him out of his rut that's been plaguing him since childhood is a ridiculously reductive summary. The cutscene that follows literally presents slideshow of Rean's arc throughout CS1/2, making it exceedingly clear that it was Rean's experiences throughout CS1 and Alfin acting as a proxy for his sister that finally let him overcome his problem. (Which was, letting him finally realize that the responsibility, care and guilt he feels for towards the people he cares about is mutual.)
Oh hey me too
In SC you will see an Estelle not handholded by Joshua, and in 3rd you will see characters with their own arcs, without the presence of the protagonist. But I don't think it's anything in SC or 3rd that you need to know, you just need to read more harem light novels. The patterns become clear when you've seen enough of them, especially that little imouto you need to protect.
StarSketch
Banned
Just wanna say that based on the drama cd, and based on having CS1 fresh in my mind right now, I'm fairly certain Alfin is finishing the job started by everyone in Class VII.
I don't know what happens in the lead up to this scene as I have yet to actually play CS2, but it's not like she single handedly fixed the problem- she just was the last push.
(I have seen the scenes in question, btw- I really need to get better at filtering what I watch while researching games....)
Edit: oh PK said what I did in more words
That's what I get for browsing gaf at 2:30 am
BassForever
Member
Exactly, rean is still better written then a lot of other generic ln/harem protagonist or many of his fellow hot blooded shonen jrpg main characters. Rean's problem is he's in the same franchise as Estelle and Kevin (maybe lloyd haven't played zero/ao) and compared to them he's vastily inferior in terms of writing.
Young Magus
Junior Member
I like Rean more then I like Lloyd *shrug*
They all good tho. Kevin the best however
They all good tho. Kevin the best however
hans_castorp
Member
Lloyd is great. He is surprisingly smart and shows good leadership skills.
I can see him being the leader with all MC in the final arc.
BassForever
Member
What does that make Rean?
Se7enSword
Banned
Lloyd junior
ShadowSoldier89
Member
if we're talking about flaws. Rean is more flawed than Estelle. Doesnt make him a better character, far from it.
I cant weigh in on Lloyd
I cant weigh in on Lloyd
If we disregard the ending of their respective 2nd games I would put Rean in the same tier as Lloyd, if not worse, with all the convenient things that fell into his laps.
Rean was revealed to
have been used as a political tool all along
justify a certain contentious decision
You guys seeing this CS3 information?
obama_wiping_sweat.jpg
Elise is looking great; doing a complete 180 on this character if she acts just as classy as she looks. Alfin is looking way better than before, more like a real princess. Cedric became more Jusis-like which is always appreciated.
Also they're upping the battle difficulty by allowing enemies to S-Break you as a counter. Looks more and more like this is going to be THE hype conclusion title. Can't wait!
obama_wiping_sweat.jpg
Elise is looking great; doing a complete 180 on this character if she acts just as classy as she looks. Alfin is looking way better than before, more like a real princess. Cedric became more Jusis-like which is always appreciated.
Also they're upping the battle difficulty by allowing enemies to S-Break you as a counter. Looks more and more like this is going to be THE hype conclusion title. Can't wait!
Scrooge McDuck
Member
*looks at pictures of Cedric*
Whew, he's certainly making good on that "Imperial Treasure" title of his.
Whew, he's certainly making good on that "Imperial Treasure" title of his.
Clearly Falcom realizes the best thing about the CS arc is Jusis, so they decided to clone him not once, but twice!
As for PK Gaming, I'll get back to your post.