Technically speaking.
What's so good about Class VII is that they have still room to develop.
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Technically speaking.
Sinh_Magnus
Member
I missed the last page completely.
Lol this just made my day.
Your tastes probably align with me, I liked those two a lot. I wasn't sure how to feel about Cold Steel at that point but I keep on pushing because I liked the setting. Also, the scene in chapter 2 between
. Next chapter is when I fell in love with the game, it may be a small thing for other people but for me it is what I love about JRPGS.
I think maybe you are going to end up like me, putting Zero over Ao. I liked Zero's pacing more and how it introduced the SSS and worked with these characters. Not all questions must be answered in the same game; I see people being disappointed with Zero for not offering answers, and I actually thought the game was pretty conclusive for the story it wanted to tell, probably one of the best of the series in that regard.
Also, I understand Randy, but not Tio?
Lol this just made my day.
Your tastes probably align with me, I liked those two a lot. I wasn't sure how to feel about Cold Steel at that point but I keep on pushing because I liked the setting. Also, the scene in chapter 2 between
Julis and Rean was great
I think maybe you are going to end up like me, putting Zero over Ao. I liked Zero's pacing more and how it introduced the SSS and worked with these characters. Not all questions must be answered in the same game; I see people being disappointed with Zero for not offering answers, and I actually thought the game was pretty conclusive for the story it wanted to tell, probably one of the best of the series in that regard.
Also, I understand Randy, but not Tio?
The moment she heards about what's going on in crosbell with the red constellation and Randy, she hurries to finish her work and fly the next day. I wouldn't have seen her doing something like that in Zero.
Spoilers because why not (the Third):
What makes Joshua good is that he's written around Estelle, and not around a number of optional girls. It's why him rejecting Kloe was such a good scene. Even when she tried suggesting to him that they maybe they could gotten together if they had met in different circumstances, he just blew that off and said it wasn't happening. It wouldn't have the same impact if Rean or Lloyd were to do that with a girl, because of the whole optional romance thing and their stories not being romantically involved in the first place.
The reason why canon romances are good in these kinds of long running franchises is that it adds a lot of depth to the actions of a character in relation to another character. There's a difference in intent when having a character interact with someone he or she is close to or in love with versus a character just interacting with a friend or acquaintance. In that respect, a generic MC with optional choices just ends up with wish-washy interactions that I feel ultimately only serve to stimulate the shipping fantasies of the audience. This isn't just limited to romance, mind you.
As an example, if Rean was written in a way where he did indeed have an active interest in Alisa only, much to the chagrin of a lot of people here, I think he would be far more interesting. This in turn would affect how I would view the rest of his bond events. In a positive way, might I add.
The reason why canon romances are good in these kinds of long running franchises is that it adds a lot of depth to the actions of a character in relation to another character. There's a difference in intent when having a character interact with someone he or she is close to or in love with versus a character just interacting with a friend or acquaintance. In that respect, a generic MC with optional choices just ends up with wish-washy interactions that I feel ultimately only serve to stimulate the shipping fantasies of the audience. This isn't just limited to romance, mind you.
As an example, if Rean was written in a way where he did indeed have an active interest in Alisa only, much to the chagrin of a lot of people here, I think he would be far more interesting. This in turn would affect how I would view the rest of his bond events. In a positive way, might I add.
But back to CS3, I guess my biggest worry is how they're going to handle all these characters. In the same way Estelle, Joshua, and Renne had a story arc that finished in Zero, I'm hoping something similar exists for Randy, Tio, Agate, Tita, and so forth. I just hope they're not there to be cameos or whatever.
Tio is perfect, too, of course. I'm just a little disappointed in the decrease of bantz between the two, but I do appreciate the concern she shows for him in his scenes. I'm on day 1 of chapter 4, so I'm sure there's more to come. But yeah, I think I prefer Zero over Ao so far based on the fact that it felt more focused on the group as a whole than Lloyd's miraculous adventures to solve everything and everyone's problems with the perfect lines taken out of a shounen manga.
encephalon
Member
So if
in CSIII, then what was shown in the trailer?
things change for the 2nd half
Everything just up to that point? If Falcom made a decision not to show a second half, that might explain the lack of Lloyd and Rixia showing up - characters who almost undoubtedly will play a part in the game given their cameo in CSII.
Hmmm. Maybe the Cold Steel II Divertissement was simply an appetiser. Maybe
Lloyd takes over in the second half of the game, where you fight Rean as one of the final bosses.
That would be something.
The final barrier.
encephalon
Member
This has been my pipe dream ever since
the abrupt, bleak ending of Ao.
Edit: Only 15 more days!
What you're saying makes sense, but I just can't agree. Call it pessimism, but I just don't see them going with another female protagonist when the JRPG scene currently heavily favors male lead. That shit sells, given how you could position said protagonist around female characters and pander to otaku's. It's immediately obvious when you at say... Persona 5, and it's total lack of interest at pandering to anyone who isn't a dude. Like Falcom's clearly ahead of the curve (and their games are generally a lot more thoughtful), but if they do make a Calvard game, i'm like 80% certain it will be another male protagonist, because they'd be missing out. Juna definitely seems promising though, and i'm keeping my fingers crossed that she ends up becoming CS3's deuteragonist.
And yeah, Estelle isn't some impossible ideal or anything. But it's sad that you don't get more RPGs with female characters who aren't forced to share a spotlight with a male character, or chained down by some gimmick.
Technically speaking.
Sorry, I meant RPGs in general, not Kiseki (sides, doesn't she co-lead with some dweeb named Nacht?)
Oh don't get it twisted. Olivier is still a God, and one of Kiseki's strongest characters. I was just saying he walks an incredibly difficult tightrope, and if he were handled by another developer like say, Atlus or Square, he'd be completely terrible.
This.
Calling Joshua a harem lead is just massively disingenuous, because that's not what they were going for at all. Kloe's crush on Joshua is purposeful, and having her move on from him is an important milestone in her character arc. It's not some generic, out of the way character trait that defines her character. Also, out of all of the major female characters in the trilogy, only Estelle (duh), Kloe and Josette have feelings for him. Harem leads manage to dip their toes into every female character, so it was incredibly refreshing to see a general lack of interest from the other women in 3rd.
Shuddering to think of the Sky games with Joshua as the lead, lol.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
We could do it 30 years ago and it wasn't a big deal. How have we regressed so much?
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Despite the reception, Square did so in 2009. Where TitS is nearly unique is having romance in a fantasy RPG with a female lead. Male leads can fall in love, female leads can't. At least thats the trend I've always seen.
The west is all in on create a character open world RPGs though, so I wouldnt expect anything other than that the vast majority of the time.
The west is all in on create a character open world RPGs though, so I wouldnt expect anything other than that the vast majority of the time.
We could do it 30 years ago and it wasn't a big deal. How have we regressed so much?
Otaku's gotta be pandered to. All day, erry day.
:'(
Yeah dude, it's friggin ridiculous. I played Tales of Berseria and there wasn't a hint of romance with Velvet. If she were a guy you bet your ass she'd have tons of ship teasing moments with the girls. Absolutely ridiculous, because that game had top class husbando's.
I guess that's why I really liked P3P; the female protagonist was allowed to do all of the awesome things a male protagonist got to do in an RPG.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
continuing on romance as I'm a complete sucker for it. I did enjoy the NPC romances in CS. If you check in a lot across both games you get to watch Friedel and Loggins relationship develop
FFVI and FFX-2 do exist, also Parasite Eve. You really need to date back further for Square's first female protagonist. Also both Celes and Yuna have canon romance relationship.
The weird thing about the lack of female protagonists past Estelle from the trails series is that Falcom have acknowledged multiple times that she's an amazing protagonist, yet they haven't really tried to recreate the magic at any point. Sure, there's Alisa I guess with some broad similarities, and it sounds like they may have planned to have her be the protagonist at some point early in development, but they evidently didn't go through with it.
I'm not expecting (or even hoping for) Estelle 2.0, but they could easily take their next protagonist, make them female, and *then* appeal to the Otakus by any means necessary without compromising their usual standards. That would be cool.
I'm not expecting (or even hoping for) Estelle 2.0, but they could easily take their next protagonist, make them female, and *then* appeal to the Otakus by any means necessary without compromising their usual standards. That would be cool.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
X-2 is a sequel to an already established relationship brought about by a male lead. Terra is the main character in VI (arguably). I was just bringing up XIII as female lead as it was the most recent since 30 years ago was mentioned.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Wasn't even Estelle a change? Like I can't find the links right now so maybe I dreamed it, but I thought that Joshua was meant to be the lead early on in development (thank god for the change if so, as a main protagonist he'd have been insufferable). He'd definitely fit the 'dark secret' jrpg hero mold.
Yeah, a chest message told me that.
Those are definitely something Cold Steel lacks :/
Cold Steel 2 has them at least, although in a more limited form.
Instead we got other chests to look at.
They'd be missing out on the self-insert factor. Cute girls are good, but the reason why otaku's go gaga over waifu's in games like CS and Persona is because you have a virtual avatar that lets you romance them.
Hence our current predicament.
Pssh, I could self-insert as a girl anytime. Why won't you cater to me, Japan?
On another note, is anyone disappointed Randy's soldat not being super green with a sniper? One job, Falcom. I could use another Lockon Stratos
ShadowSoldier89
Member
huh, Vivi is actually ヴィヴィ in japanese and not ビビ. Neat
Well yeah, otherwise her name would be Bibi.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
yes, like a certain FFIX character
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Falcom seems genuinely afraid and sheepish towards making another female protagonist across multiple games, with Estelle's lack of compromise. Square-Enix got away with Lightning, but their brand sells far better than Falcom's no matter the game, and the average Dengeki reader's likely a high-school young boy who might like having a selection of girls to bond with in game (not that Rean's a self-insert per se). Falcom's writers seem to want to do another female lead, as seen with Dana in Ys VIII, but they have to attach her to an obligatory male lead instead or dilute her level of stardom with some other compromise.
The audience for Trails in the Sky back in the 2000s was definitely older and more interested in unconventional leads like Estelle, also, so it mostly comes down to Falcom wanting to play it safe whenever they transition to a new platform and market. (Re: Phantasy Star, the Mark III player base back then was already different from Famicom norms, and that was a time for innovation and making unique games within a JRPG/dungeon-crawler framework, which Falcom doesn't benefit from.) So I don't know that another female protagonist's off the cards for the rest of Kiseki, but there's genuine market challenges getting in the way. We can make an impact through international sales to compensate for such a premise not appealing too well in Japan, though.
I just want bonding events to have less emphasis and dilution of the story in Calvard and future stories. That would help no matter what; I'm hoping CS III's events either aren't as crucial or have way more development and meaningful conversation.
The audience for Trails in the Sky back in the 2000s was definitely older and more interested in unconventional leads like Estelle, also, so it mostly comes down to Falcom wanting to play it safe whenever they transition to a new platform and market. (Re: Phantasy Star, the Mark III player base back then was already different from Famicom norms, and that was a time for innovation and making unique games within a JRPG/dungeon-crawler framework, which Falcom doesn't benefit from.) So I don't know that another female protagonist's off the cards for the rest of Kiseki, but there's genuine market challenges getting in the way. We can make an impact through international sales to compensate for such a premise not appealing too well in Japan, though.
I just want bonding events to have less emphasis and dilution of the story in Calvard and future stories. That would help no matter what; I'm hoping CS III's events either aren't as crucial or have way more development and meaningful conversation.
I hope XSEED, the port team, and Durante can find a way to implement chest phrases into CS II PC, then back into CS PC using the same tricks.
There's a new post on the Trails Facebook about voice acting for CS 2 starting soon. The main point from it is that it will definitely be released in 2018.
https://facebook.com/XSEEDTrails/posts/2104608332897902
https://facebook.com/XSEEDTrails/posts/2104608332897902
YESSSSSSSS. Cannot wait to play CS2 on PC.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah, it's bullshit. If she does, she's usually gay. It all comes back to dudes feeling icky playing a girl who kisses boys. I wish I were kidding.
FFVI has an ensemble cast and X-2 is a spin-off. Celes and Yuna aren't the protagonists.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
yea I actually knew that so I didn't even need that proof...I'm a guy that finds it easier to take interest in a female protagonist as a character while also enjoying romance storys. TitS was a hell of a breath of fresh air.
More Fast Arts Man, aww yis.
Magazine scan is out. Dat swimsuit shot though, this game will certainly piss some people here off.
What does that even mean? Like Trails in the Sky does not have a big party? Terra is the protagonist of the first half of FFVI, and Celes is the protagonist of the second half.
What does that even mean? Like Trails in the Sky does not have a big party? Terra is the protagonist of the first half of FFVI, and Celes is the protagonist of the second half.
Shake Appeal
Member
Noooo. I heard Christmas 2017. What happened to Christmas??
People speculated that it might be December since Durante didn't mention it when talking about months it wouldnt come out but XSEED themselves never mentioned it. They probably wouldn't want to release during the Steam sale anyway even if it was ready.
I remember a few years ago, that Toki Tori 2 launched during a steam sale with a fairly steep 30% discount or something. I'm pretty certain a fair few people saw that and thought "Wow what a terrible discount". Launching during a steam sale is definitely a bad move.
Celes is the protagonist of the second half of FFVI and I wouldn't call X-2 a spin-off. It's an official sequel to one of their most famous FF.
Japanese games never had a problem with female protagonists anyway, VP, PE and Xenosaga are all games with female protagonists with distinct male love interests.
They have a "problem" with female protagonists in games that rely on self-insertion and have dating mechanics. (Which isn't exclusive to Japan) Anything other than the default (Someone like Kevin or Olivier probably wouldn't fly as the protagonist either) died for Trails the moment they introduced bonding mechanics. But hey, at least it still is better than Persona for this.
Zestiria isn't really different though, Sorey doesn't get "shippy" moments with any of the girls
. Xillia lets you play with Milla and you see the romance unfolding from her side (There is also Ivar lol).
Japanese games never had a problem with female protagonists anyway, VP, PE and Xenosaga are all games with female protagonists with distinct male love interests.
They have a "problem" with female protagonists in games that rely on self-insertion and have dating mechanics. (Which isn't exclusive to Japan) Anything other than the default (Someone like Kevin or Olivier probably wouldn't fly as the protagonist either) died for Trails the moment they introduced bonding mechanics. But hey, at least it still is better than Persona for this.
Zestiria isn't really different though, Sorey doesn't get "shippy" moments with any of the girls
Sorey/Mikeo is OTP tho'
Basileus777
Member
Yeah, Sorey is even more extreme than Velvet when it comes to being chaste and sexless.
Sinh_Magnus
Member
It has been sometime since I played Xillia, but I don't remember Milla answering Jude's feelings in any way.
I agree with Berseria and Zestiria though.
Well, maybe "romance" isn't the right word, but you still get "shippy" moments
They even hold hands in the ending.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
err my japanese is weak but pictures making it easier to guess. Dengeki themed swimsuits for cold steel 2 (and presumably 1) for PS4. Product code in next issue.
Still doesnt seem quite right though as it seems weird that PS4 versions of 1 and 2 would already be coming in a month. So for the PS3 and vita versions of them? I see no mentions of them though. It does mention CS3 product code though...gah.
Someone that can actually read it im sure will get to it though
More importantly is that I need that Laura coaster
ShadowSoldier89
Member
even if there was romance while playing as Milla, the main point we were making is that it basically doesnt exist with sole female lead. Xillia has selectable male lead.
Sorry, double
Sorry, double
It's saying the next issue of the magazine will come with DLC codes for those swimsuits in CS2.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
thats what made the most sense but I couldnt read enough.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
It means that FFVI doesn't have a single protagonist. I don't agree that Terra is the protagonist, nor Celes.
I cannot believe I forgot the GOAT.
While there're definitely more male protagonists than female protagonists in JRPG, what we should look at is how JRPG is doing compared to other genres. From what I've been seeing, JRPG as a genre is not doing any worse than any other genre. I expect JRPG to have more and more female protagonists. The proportion of female of JRPG fanbase is growing bigger and bigger and I always have the impression that female fans spend more on related products.
Three by the Final Chapter, if
you asked Towa to dance