ShadowSoldier89
Member
Rean really steps his game up in CS2 (and Toval)
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Randy headpats are where it's at.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
???
He was thirstin' but it was clear to all it wasn't a thing.
It's one of the dangers I keep bringing up alongside this link is that dangerous level of "gravity" that Otaku pandering has on ever more and more video game efforts.
Oh yeah, it wouldn't be out of thought to not having the "need" for rote animu scenes and structure in all future Trails games yet people who mainline that stuff would mentally convert that to their shippin' and waifuin' and school nostalgiain' needs (I have seen some...creative takes on Trails characters), but will it be risked at the corporate level? Here with Nihon Falcom or any other? Will the pull of overseas sales and that alluded-to older foreign sales base swing the risk back to a risk worth taking? I wish I could look forward to that, but I fear that it will continue to be bolted in half-elegantly in games thruout Japan for the foreseeable future.
All I can do is hope and make my opinions known. Estelle shouldnt be an "impossible ideal" for lack of opportunity. There's other female archetypes that can excel above the rim as our stick-wielding snark tornado, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take...
We could do it 30 years ago and it wasn't a big deal. How have we regressed so much?
Ain't that a common thought nowadays in general.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Huh, I guess ヴィヴィ and ビビ are interchangeable for Vivi. You learn new things everyday.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
So I'm finishing up the free day in chapter 5 in Cold Steel and completely forgot about part of this scene
I can't remember anywhere in CS1 or CS2 where this was ever explained. Something for CS3 then?
The added voice acting is making these scenes so much better, and Sean Chiplock is really good at this kind of reaction
https://imgur.com/a/AcfJB
Rean bumps into misty, recognizes her voice and realizes shes also Vita. After thats all established Vita takes off her glasses, leans in close to rean's face and says
"I had this feeling I'd seen you somewhere before, but I couldn't put my finger on where. Its 'you' isn't it?"
"I had this feeling I'd seen you somewhere before, but I couldn't put my finger on where. Its 'you' isn't it?"
I can't remember anywhere in CS1 or CS2 where this was ever explained. Something for CS3 then?
Vita around for rean when he was a kid with Elise in the woods? Or before that before he was abandoned by Osborne?
The added voice acting is making these scenes so much better, and Sean Chiplock is really good at this kind of reaction
https://imgur.com/a/AcfJB
we have our OT
It's convenient that we took a trip down memory lane because Falcom posted yet another screenshot of Rean looking grumpy:
His smile and optimism, gone.
He's thinking that he doesn't love you.
ResourcefulStar
Neo Member
I think the former is likelier. According to the wiki, Vita is merely 7 years older than Rean, which means that she was only 12 when he was abandoned at the age of 5. She was probably still undergoing her apprenticeship at that point. Then again, visiting Ymir, the location of the Glacia Shrine and the stone monument, could have been a part of that apprenticeship.
Interesting. Previously, I assumed that the Isthmian Tales were erotic literature, a reference to Aristides' Milesian Tales, as isthmus is a Greek word.
It's convenient that we took a trip down memory lane because Falcom posted yet another screenshot of Rean looking grumpy:
His smile and optimism, gone.
Is that...
CS2
Instructor Thomas again!? rofl, first time I played CS2 that seriously threw me off when they revealed who the hooded man is XD
CrimsonFist
Member
It's convenient that we took a trip down memory lane because Falcom posted yet another screenshot of Rean looking grumpy:
His smile and optimism, gone.
Still not quite to Estelle's level though.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
I know this is hardly the fast time in Tales but it still kinda weirds me out there's a place just called 'Aragon' without even trying to fantasy it up. Feels like a place name better suited to Ys' not-europe.
The game manages to consistently impress with these screenshots. I really hope we get to explore each and every one of these locations.
Don't they already have one?
Minna Atsumare! Falcom Gakuen
There's also that amazing CS spinoff comic with Alisa as the lead. Shame none of it will ever be translated?
Don't they already have one?
Minna Atsumare! Falcom Gakuen
There's also that amazing CS spinoff comic with Alisa as the lead. Shame none of it will ever be translated?
Ohh, I always thought the Gakuen was originally a short anime series, but I guess it was based on the 4-koma. Well, give me more.
ResourcefulStar
Neo Member
Could Izeria be Isauria?
I wonder if Falcom will show off anything new for TGS? Maybe the full OP animation? I'd like to see that. Stills and snippets ain't cutting it, mang.
Someone planning on translating the CS3-related manga that came with the magazine? Looks interesting and makes me me wonder if CS3 will also begin in-media-res like some of the previous games.
Someone planning on translating the CS3-related manga that came with the magazine? Looks interesting and makes me me wonder if CS3 will also begin in-media-res like some of the previous games.
CrimsonFist
Member
There should be JDK Band mini concert performing Sen 3 music, which will hopefully be streamed at least.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Palette Swap
Member
Iseria (as an evocation of Isere)?
ShadowSoldier89
Member
so for some reason I thought Domination didn't appear until CS2...
chapter 5 boss lols
https://imgur.com/a/Kw8Qh
chapter 5 boss lols
https://imgur.com/a/Kw8Qh
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Finally getting around to listening to the Sen no Kiseki Super Arrange I wanted to put off until after playing the game. Three tracks in and it's looking like another great Falcom arrange album.
Feels like they release a lot less of them these days, looks like this and We Love Sora no Kiseki are the only two they have released in over 3 years.
Feels like they release a lot less of them these days, looks like this and We Love Sora no Kiseki are the only two they have released in over 3 years.
Unfortunately, the old jdk Band partially disbanded after the JP release of Cold Steel II, and the new band (jdk Band Theta) is nowhere near as good at this point. I imagine that has a lot to do with it. Their live performances have also been pretty underwhelming.
They have managed to get their old musicians to collaborate with them a number of times since then, though, like in the Sky Evo games, We Love Sora no Kiseki and Ys VIII.
Osgiliath Basin? Maybe a coincidence but that certainly sounds like Giliath Osborne related
It's worth noting too that it seems to be exactly halfway between the two giant stone statues - one in Nord, one in Bryonia.
Novel Mike
Member
Alright finished 3rd. Thoughts on it and the entire Sky series below. Spoilers for all 3 games.
I think the biggest discovery to me from playing these games is that Falcom does have a big problem when it comes to storytelling that I really think hurts the games and the series as a whole... Spoilers for All of the series including CS1/2 and ALSO COLD STEEL 3 YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!
3rd was just okay. As I mentioned before the lack of a real world to explore and see was disappointing even though I'd been through Liberl twice already I still would have perfered that over it just being a dungeon crawler.
The side stories with the various Doors were an interesting way of doing various mini stories and character development but they were really really hit and miss. The three idiots that Agate was training didn't need a freaking mini dungeon and arc to themselves, they were never very important in these games and it seems really odd that they got a fairly large section of time to themselves when nothing really comes from it. Theirs easily could have been a much smaller and non playable mini story and still worked out fine and got the main point across like several of the other doors. Same with the orphan kids, I didn't need that story to be playable nor did it need to be as long as it was.
I liked Kloe's side story a lot and that it revealed Lechter in a really interesting way and was about him as much as it was her. Thats what the above were missing, sure Agate is the 'boss' of the mini story I first mentioned but unlike Kloe he doesn't go through any kind of character development from it.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is many of the doors just felt like big time wasters that didn't provide very interesting stories or character development or to say it another way, it feels like character arcs and development were wasted on pointless characters when you have characters like Julia and Mueller who really could have done with more development in this game since they aren't in the previous games nearly as much. Yeah they get a shared door but I would have liked to see each of them get their own personal side story like several other characters got.
At least they did well with some of the characters like Renne, Kloe (as I already mentioned above), Anelace, Richard, and a few others I just wish the doors would have been a bit more focused on the main cast that really could have used more development as it didn't feel very even in the end.
The combat in 3rd was also stupidly easy, starting at a fairly high level with strong crafts made the early part of the game easy and each new character you unlocked just continued to make the group as a whole crazy strong. Then you get Renne and Richard who each break the damn game in different ways (Renne with arcs and Richard with being able to chain spam crafts like crazy) but even without using them Kevin's Grail Sphere is just so broken when you can literally start a battle with it, buff up and get every boss either dead or down to half before they've even removed the double effect of it and hes the main character you have to take with you 90% of the time. While combat wasn't as directly broken as in Cold Steel 2 with Laura the difference is that in this game it feels like 90% of the characters are far stronger then they should be. In SC the only character I really felt was broken at the end of Joshua but here everyone is just super strong (besides Josette) even freaking Tita gets a mech which makes her hit as strong as freaking Mueller or Richard and combined with her aoe shots normally shes crazy good.
I played on normal and I think I died once when a random deathblow ability hit multiple characters at once in a normal battle outside of that it was a literal cakewalk. Even the final battle in the arena with Cassius and Loewe was just way to easy which I was perplexed at as I played on normal on all 3 difficulties and 3rd was the only one that really had this problem.
What really saved 3rd for me was the ending. It really felt like a proper send of to the trilogy and had a proper ending with the group together which I think was really missing in SC. The moment with Estelle and Renne at the end was both heart breaking and heart warming and I really do at least understand why everyone loves Estelle so much even if I really didn't care much for her in FC.
The trilogy as a whole is pretty good, it has some exceptionally strong moments held back by some extremely poor moments and being a really slow paced RPG. I said it before and I'll say it again, the Turbo feature makes these games playable and without it I don't think I would have finished FC let alone all three games now and while I am glad they added it I really think its one of the hardest things to accept about the Sky games is that without that feature the games are so slow in terms of both combat, backtracking, and the pace of the story that they are nearly unplayable so I think I'd have a really hard time recommending people start with them to get into the series as even with the Turbo feature I think FC is the weakest game of the entire series thats available in English.
The entire game of FC is a setup for a much stronger sequel which gives you what FC is lacking pretty much from the get go but the problem is that you have to play through about 40 hours worth of an RPG to get to the good game in its sequel. I think the biggest problem FC had was putting off a majority of the character development into SC, you get characters like Zin that literally have no development or arc in FC despite having a fairly large and important role in the first game. It's just disappointing that the first game doesn't start off stronger and I can see people having a hard time getting attached to these character based off of FC alone, I know I'd likely have stopped playing FC just because of Olivert and his stupidity and hes really only endearing to me because of the character he ultimately becomes that we see in the Cold Steel games. I didn't miss getting that spoiled by the CS games as I think the character of Oilver in FC/SC is awful and I wouldn't want him to be in the games let alone be such a huge part of the entire trilogy.
SC is a great game like I said before the only thing that really brings it down for me is the final arc of the story being so predictable I found much of it boring and had a hard time really caring about some of the major events like Loewes death and Joshua 'almost' killing Estelle as well as the various endings with each Enforcer you fight. Only thing that really wasn't plainly obvious was Kevin being the one to kill Weissman which was a nice twist but everything else you've seen dozens of times in other games and it felt like the really great setup and unique storyline they had setup to this point just became a fairly generic RPG at the end, for a series that does buck many RPG's traditions I thought that final arc really could have been better.
3rd in the end was pretty muddling for me, it felt more like a side story then a main story or continuation of SC and I didn't really fall in love with Kevin or Rias by the end of it. They had a pretty good arc together but Rias herself really could have used for more personal development instead of tying all her development to either Kevin or Rufina, I also thought that this story was also extremely predictable for the most part. I liked Rias more then Kevin honestly and while I think he has a pretty good back story I think because of the setup of the game he didn't get enough characterization to really bring out his personality. A big part of how Estelle developed was her reaction to the various NPC's throughout FC and SC and this game lacks that in a big way for Kevin so I found it hard to really get engaged with his character.
The side stories with the various Doors were an interesting way of doing various mini stories and character development but they were really really hit and miss. The three idiots that Agate was training didn't need a freaking mini dungeon and arc to themselves, they were never very important in these games and it seems really odd that they got a fairly large section of time to themselves when nothing really comes from it. Theirs easily could have been a much smaller and non playable mini story and still worked out fine and got the main point across like several of the other doors. Same with the orphan kids, I didn't need that story to be playable nor did it need to be as long as it was.
I liked Kloe's side story a lot and that it revealed Lechter in a really interesting way and was about him as much as it was her. Thats what the above were missing, sure Agate is the 'boss' of the mini story I first mentioned but unlike Kloe he doesn't go through any kind of character development from it.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is many of the doors just felt like big time wasters that didn't provide very interesting stories or character development or to say it another way, it feels like character arcs and development were wasted on pointless characters when you have characters like Julia and Mueller who really could have done with more development in this game since they aren't in the previous games nearly as much. Yeah they get a shared door but I would have liked to see each of them get their own personal side story like several other characters got.
At least they did well with some of the characters like Renne, Kloe (as I already mentioned above), Anelace, Richard, and a few others I just wish the doors would have been a bit more focused on the main cast that really could have used more development as it didn't feel very even in the end.
The combat in 3rd was also stupidly easy, starting at a fairly high level with strong crafts made the early part of the game easy and each new character you unlocked just continued to make the group as a whole crazy strong. Then you get Renne and Richard who each break the damn game in different ways (Renne with arcs and Richard with being able to chain spam crafts like crazy) but even without using them Kevin's Grail Sphere is just so broken when you can literally start a battle with it, buff up and get every boss either dead or down to half before they've even removed the double effect of it and hes the main character you have to take with you 90% of the time. While combat wasn't as directly broken as in Cold Steel 2 with Laura the difference is that in this game it feels like 90% of the characters are far stronger then they should be. In SC the only character I really felt was broken at the end of Joshua but here everyone is just super strong (besides Josette) even freaking Tita gets a mech which makes her hit as strong as freaking Mueller or Richard and combined with her aoe shots normally shes crazy good.
I played on normal and I think I died once when a random deathblow ability hit multiple characters at once in a normal battle outside of that it was a literal cakewalk. Even the final battle in the arena with Cassius and Loewe was just way to easy which I was perplexed at as I played on normal on all 3 difficulties and 3rd was the only one that really had this problem.
What really saved 3rd for me was the ending. It really felt like a proper send of to the trilogy and had a proper ending with the group together which I think was really missing in SC. The moment with Estelle and Renne at the end was both heart breaking and heart warming and I really do at least understand why everyone loves Estelle so much even if I really didn't care much for her in FC.
The trilogy as a whole is pretty good, it has some exceptionally strong moments held back by some extremely poor moments and being a really slow paced RPG. I said it before and I'll say it again, the Turbo feature makes these games playable and without it I don't think I would have finished FC let alone all three games now and while I am glad they added it I really think its one of the hardest things to accept about the Sky games is that without that feature the games are so slow in terms of both combat, backtracking, and the pace of the story that they are nearly unplayable so I think I'd have a really hard time recommending people start with them to get into the series as even with the Turbo feature I think FC is the weakest game of the entire series thats available in English.
The entire game of FC is a setup for a much stronger sequel which gives you what FC is lacking pretty much from the get go but the problem is that you have to play through about 40 hours worth of an RPG to get to the good game in its sequel. I think the biggest problem FC had was putting off a majority of the character development into SC, you get characters like Zin that literally have no development or arc in FC despite having a fairly large and important role in the first game. It's just disappointing that the first game doesn't start off stronger and I can see people having a hard time getting attached to these character based off of FC alone, I know I'd likely have stopped playing FC just because of Olivert and his stupidity and hes really only endearing to me because of the character he ultimately becomes that we see in the Cold Steel games. I didn't miss getting that spoiled by the CS games as I think the character of Oilver in FC/SC is awful and I wouldn't want him to be in the games let alone be such a huge part of the entire trilogy.
SC is a great game like I said before the only thing that really brings it down for me is the final arc of the story being so predictable I found much of it boring and had a hard time really caring about some of the major events like Loewes death and Joshua 'almost' killing Estelle as well as the various endings with each Enforcer you fight. Only thing that really wasn't plainly obvious was Kevin being the one to kill Weissman which was a nice twist but everything else you've seen dozens of times in other games and it felt like the really great setup and unique storyline they had setup to this point just became a fairly generic RPG at the end, for a series that does buck many RPG's traditions I thought that final arc really could have been better.
3rd in the end was pretty muddling for me, it felt more like a side story then a main story or continuation of SC and I didn't really fall in love with Kevin or Rias by the end of it. They had a pretty good arc together but Rias herself really could have used for more personal development instead of tying all her development to either Kevin or Rufina, I also thought that this story was also extremely predictable for the most part. I liked Rias more then Kevin honestly and while I think he has a pretty good back story I think because of the setup of the game he didn't get enough characterization to really bring out his personality. A big part of how Estelle developed was her reaction to the various NPC's throughout FC and SC and this game lacks that in a big way for Kevin so I found it hard to really get engaged with his character.
I think the biggest discovery to me from playing these games is that Falcom does have a big problem when it comes to storytelling that I really think hurts the games and the series as a whole... Spoilers for All of the series including CS1/2 and ALSO COLD STEEL 3 YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!
Falcom really just can't seem to let characters go. Characters manage to stay alive or come back in some of the most ridiculous reasons and it hurts because it removes all the conflict and tension from all of the major arcs. Look at CS2, the entire game centers around a freaking civil war and all of 2 named NPC's actually die? Being the one guy in the market town (despite whole village being burned down only a single person dies? Really?) and then Crow... And in CS3 Crow is back again because reasons which I think is a huge cop out regardless of how it actually plays out in the game because it is one of the biggest moments of the game that actually helps Rean to change as a character and him coming back muddles that a lot.
Then you have the Enforcers, outside of Loewe who was screaming 'Will die to save Joshua in some way' from the moment he showed up (and even then they STILL had to bring him back in 3rd to give them a second goodbye) and hes the only(?) Enforcer thats actually been killed off despite numerous ones showing up in both the sky games and Cold Steel 1/2. Luciola isn't even confirmed dead despite jumping off the giant ass tower that eventually sank into the lake and of course Walter survived as well and it just overall feels as though Falcom really can't let any of the characters they have made go and it makes me worried for CS3 because despite the build up of a darker tone I have a hard time believing we'll see any real stakes and see any character really at risk. I'll be happy to be proven wrong in CS3 but right now it really makes the more pivotal moments of the heroes and villains squaring off feel so mundane and have damn well near no tension. I'm not saying they need to start killing off characters left and right but they do need to really do a better job at making the player invested in the conflicts between the various groups and they really haven't done that well in ANY of the games because even if a major character and villain like Osborne is killed and having to actually deal with that as a major plot point he still comes back in some way and so far that has happened far to often or most of the time major characters (heroes of villains) just don't die so its hard to care about any conflict they ever have.
I really hope CS3 proves me wrong on this but Crow coming back doesn't give me a lot of hope on this front and I think the game and the series suffers for it.
Then you have the Enforcers, outside of Loewe who was screaming 'Will die to save Joshua in some way' from the moment he showed up (and even then they STILL had to bring him back in 3rd to give them a second goodbye) and hes the only(?) Enforcer thats actually been killed off despite numerous ones showing up in both the sky games and Cold Steel 1/2. Luciola isn't even confirmed dead despite jumping off the giant ass tower that eventually sank into the lake and of course Walter survived as well and it just overall feels as though Falcom really can't let any of the characters they have made go and it makes me worried for CS3 because despite the build up of a darker tone I have a hard time believing we'll see any real stakes and see any character really at risk. I'll be happy to be proven wrong in CS3 but right now it really makes the more pivotal moments of the heroes and villains squaring off feel so mundane and have damn well near no tension. I'm not saying they need to start killing off characters left and right but they do need to really do a better job at making the player invested in the conflicts between the various groups and they really haven't done that well in ANY of the games because even if a major character and villain like Osborne is killed and having to actually deal with that as a major plot point he still comes back in some way and so far that has happened far to often or most of the time major characters (heroes of villains) just don't die so its hard to care about any conflict they ever have.
I really hope CS3 proves me wrong on this but Crow coming back doesn't give me a lot of hope on this front and I think the game and the series suffers for it.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
[CS2/3]
Poor Vulcan is always forgotten.
In any case, I'm not one to require the threat of death for tension and conflict, so I can't say it is that much of a problem to me. I do think that CS2 is to clean for a Civil War, but it has more to do with logic than an "I can't care if nobody dies" thing.
Resurrecting people willy-nilly is dumb, though. Either you commit or don't bother; else I'd feel like I'm being cheated out of my tears.
In any case, I'm not one to require the threat of death for tension and conflict, so I can't say it is that much of a problem to me. I do think that CS2 is to clean for a Civil War, but it has more to do with logic than an "I can't care if nobody dies" thing.
Resurrecting people willy-nilly is dumb, though. Either you commit or don't bother; else I'd feel like I'm being cheated out of my tears.
They dumped all the brutality in the Crossbell games instead.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I just know that [CS1]
Gideon died a gruesome death.
You definitely live up to your username, Novel Mike.
As for your take on 3rd... is it wrong of me to admit to emphatically disagreeing with pretty much everything you've said? And I really mean pretty much all of it, haha. Like I didn't think it was humanly possible to disagree with another person to such a significant degree (especially since we both like CS), but here we are.
But ah well, c'est la vie.
As for your take on 3rd... is it wrong of me to admit to emphatically disagreeing with pretty much everything you've said? And I really mean pretty much all of it, haha. Like I didn't think it was humanly possible to disagree with another person to such a significant degree (especially since we both like CS), but here we are.
But ah well, c'est la vie.
Novel Mike
Member
Lol feel free to disagree with me but I'm curious what you thought of 3rd since you say you completely disagree with me.
3rd boys unite. We will rally behind the onion head and the absolutely flawless soundtrack. We hereby demand Sen the 4th, doors and all. And one of the doors must be a complete 1 hour adventure of Olivier and Mueller during their school days along with a bonus Nightmare Arena where we have to fight three copies of McBurn at once.
I can see a potential Sen the 4th becoming a digest of several Divertissement-like chapters starring new and recurring Kiseki characters that take place in different areas of Western Zemuria at various points in time that eventually ties back together and concludes with
and leads into the next Kiseki setting.
Or would that be better served as DLC?
Crossbell's complete independence from Erebonia
Or would that be better served as DLC?
It was confirmed long ago that Sen III will be the final Erebonia game and that Calvard will be the next arc. I wouldn't be opposed to the style returning in a future game, though.